chris12345 Posted June 18 Share Posted June 18 Just now, Nucker67 said: Miller, Boeser, Guentzel, Pettersson >>> Matthews, Marner, Nylander, Tavares Hughes >>> all of TOR's D You are better than TOR's D! 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HKSR Posted June 18 Share Posted June 18 3 minutes ago, chris12345 said: Looks like Toronto to me. Not as bad... Petey-Guentzel = $11.6M and $9.5M Miller-Boeser = $8M and $6.65M (probably $7.5Mish for BB next year) Total = $36.6M Toronto: Matthews-Marner = $13.25M and $10.9M Tavares-Nylander = $11M and $11.5M Total = $46.65M About a $10M difference lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeNiro Posted June 18 Share Posted June 18 3 minutes ago, HKSR said: Not as bad... Petey-Guentzel = $11.6M and $9.5M Miller-Boeser = $8M and $6.65M (probably $7.5Mish for BB next year) Total = $36.6M Toronto: Matthews-Marner = $13.25M and $10.9M Tavares-Nylander = $11M and $11.5M Total = $46.65M About a $10M difference lol Those contracts would all be locked in too. They still need to re-sign Marner and Matthews is due another raise in 3 years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HarbularyBattery Posted June 18 Share Posted June 18 10 minutes ago, HKSR said: Not as bad... Petey-Guentzel = $11.6M and $9.5M Miller-Boeser = $8M and $6.65M (probably $7.5Mish for BB next year) Total = $36.6M Toronto: Matthews-Marner = $13.25M and $10.9M Tavares-Nylander = $11M and $11.5M Total = $46.65M About a $10M difference lol Matthews-Marner is worth at least 3.5-5m more than Petey-Guentzel though, just something to think about Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coconuts Posted June 18 Share Posted June 18 (edited) 18 minutes ago, HKSR said: I see it both ways... on the one hand, we do have a couple young forwards coming up that could potentially be true top 6 guys in the near future in Hoglander and Lekkerimaki. If they come in for relatively cheap over the next 3 to 5 years, then we are set up front with Guentzel in the mix. On the other hand, signing a couple $5M guys could payoff handsomely especially if they play at or above their cap hit. Only thing I worry about is we had a couple of those guys this past year in Mikheyev and Garland. ... ..... I totally get that, I dunno, I'm just not as keen on chasing him. It's not that I don't think he couldn't age well, although I'm firmly established in my stance of not liking contracts that go into a player's later 30's, but I'd prefer to build overall team depth. Thing is, when you're chasing UFA's you're likely giving out term to higher end players, so it's really a pick your poison sort of deal. It's hard to find players who surpass their cap hit. I think the question is more what do they want from their forward group? Personally, I'd be interested in Stephenson due to his being more of a playmaker. 64, 65, and 51 points the past three seasons but his assist totals have been 43, 49, and 35. I think we could benefit from having another puck distributor up front, particularly if we want Pettersson shooting more. If we can move out Mikheyev something like Stephenson and one of Tarasenko, Teravainen, Skinner, Toffoli, Drouin, and Monahan would be interesting. Hell, Perron on a one year deal might not be so bad. Foegle, Duclair, Sprong, and maybe Dubrusk could potentially be options too. Edited June 18 by Coconuts 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stawns Posted June 18 Share Posted June 18 11 minutes ago, Coconuts said: I totally get that, I dunno, I'm just not as keen on chasing him. It's not that I don't think he couldn't age well, although I'm firmly established in my stance of not liking contracts that go into a player's later 30's, but I'd prefer to build overall team depth. Thing is, when you're chasing UFA's you're likely giving out term to higher end players, so it's really a pick your poison sort of deal. It's hard to find players who surpass their cap hit. I think the question is more what do they want from their forward group? Personally, I'd be interested in Stephenson due to his being more of a playmaker. 64, 65, and 51 points the past three seasons but his assist totals have been 43, 49, and 35. I think we could benefit from having another puck distributor up front, particularly if we want Pettersson shooting more. If we can move out Mikheyev something like Stephenson and one of Tarasenko, Teravainen, Skinner, Toffoli, Drouin, and Monahan would be interesting. Hell, Perron on a one year deal might not be so bad. Foegle, Duclair, Sprong, and maybe Dubrusk could potentially be options too. I agree that high priced players rarely live up to their big, long term contracts and that depth and spreading your cap out more evenly is the best approach 1 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pears Posted June 18 Share Posted June 18 As good as Guentzel is, I just don't see him getting over $9M a year like some are saying. If he was a few years younger then yeah I could maybe see it, but I think he'll come in around $8.5-$9M especially if he's really set on playing here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coconuts Posted June 18 Share Posted June 18 1 minute ago, stawns said: I agree that high priced players rarely live up to their big, long term contracts and that depth and spreading your cap out more evenly is the best approach The teams that tend to get further have some really solid depth at all positions, I'd rather try and emulate that than being more top heavy. Depth isn't a guarantee, but it's not a coincidence that teams that have been going deeper of late like Dallas, Colorado, Vegas, and Tampa all had some very solid forward depth. Florida is a finalist with good forward depth as well, Edmonton certainly tried with the Carrick and Henrique acquisitions. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeNiro Posted June 18 Share Posted June 18 18 minutes ago, HarbularyBattery said: Matthews-Marner is worth at least 3.5-5m more than Petey-Guentzel though, just something to think about All I care about is whether they show up in the playoffs. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
German Canuck Posted June 18 Share Posted June 18 6 minutes ago, Coconuts said: The teams that tend to get further have some really solid depth at all positions, I'd rather try and emulate that than being more top heavy. Depth isn't a guarantee, but it's not a coincidence that teams that have been going deeper of late like Dallas, Colorado, Vegas, and Tampa all had some very solid forward depth. Florida is a finalist with good forward depth as well, Edmonton certainly tried with the Carrick and Henrique acquisitions. 6 minutes ago, Coconuts said: The teams that tend to get further have some really solid depth at all positions, I'd rather try and emulate that than being more top heavy. Depth isn't a guarantee, but it's not a coincidence that teams that have been going deeper of late like Dallas, Colorado, Vegas, and Tampa all had some very solid forward depth. Florida is a finalist with good forward depth as well, Edmonton certainly tried with the Carrick and Henrique acquisitions. Skill and Depth is the key and Canucks need one more very skilled player to have a contending top 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coconuts Posted June 18 Share Posted June 18 Just now, German Canuck said: Skill and Depth is the key and Canucks need one more very skilled player to have a contending top 6 I'd argue they need at least two. Suter and Mikheyev shouldn't be in the top six. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post HKSR Posted June 18 Popular Post Share Posted June 18 4 minutes ago, Coconuts said: The teams that tend to get further have some really solid depth at all positions, I'd rather try and emulate that than being more top heavy. Depth isn't a guarantee, but it's not a coincidence that teams that have been going deeper of late like Dallas, Colorado, Vegas, and Tampa all had some very solid forward depth. Florida is a finalist with good forward depth as well, Edmonton certainly tried with the Carrick and Henrique acquisitions. They also pay top dollar for top talent then try and find the bargain guys for depth... Florida: Barkov - $10M Tkachuk - $9.5M Bob - $10M Ekblad - $7.5M VGK: Eichel - $10M Stone - $9.5M Pietrangelo - $8.8M Hanifin - $7.35M (mind you, last year he wasn't there) TBL: Kucherov - $9.5M Point - $9.5M Vasi - $9.5M Sergachev - $8.5M Hedman - $7.875M COL: Mackinnon - $12.6M Rantanen - $9.25M Makar - $9M Toews - $7.25M Landeskog - $7M Rangers: Panarin - $11.6M Fox - $9.5M Zibanejad - $8.5M Trouba - $8M Shsterkin - $10M+ coming soon Bottomline is we can't shy from paying top dollar top talent. We need that to win. Petey - $11.6M Miller - $8M Hughes - $7.85M Boeser - $6.65M We really are not as top heavy as most teams out there. We can absolutely afford another top end talent. 5 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeNiro Posted June 18 Share Posted June 18 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Coconuts said: I'd argue they need at least two. Suter and Mikheyev shouldn't be in the top six. Yep they’re gonna have to spend big for one and try and get a low cost one that outperforms their contract Edited June 18 by DeNiro 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
German Canuck Posted June 18 Share Posted June 18 1 minute ago, Coconuts said: I'd argue they need at least two. Suter and Mikheyev shouldn't be in the top six. No Mikheyev in the top 6 if Guentzel sign with the Canucks and Suter was ok with Miller / Boeser. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VegasCanuck Posted June 18 Share Posted June 18 He will hit free agency and then, we WILL OFFER HIM.... 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coconuts Posted June 18 Share Posted June 18 2 minutes ago, HKSR said: They also pay top dollar for top talent then try and find the bargain guys for depth... Florida: Barkov - $10M Tkachuk - $9.5M Bob - $10M Ekblad - $7.5M VGK: Eichel - $10M Stone - $9.5M Pietrangelo - $8.8M Hanifin - $7.35M (mind you, last year he wasn't there) TBL: Kucherov - $9.5M Point - $9.5M Vasi - $9.5M Sergachev - $8.5M Hedman - $7.875M COL: Mackinnon - $12.6M Rantanen - $9.25M Makar - $9M Toews - $7.25M Landeskog - $7M Rangers: Panarin - $11.6M Fox - $9.5M Zibanejad - $8.5M Trouba - $8M Shsterkin - $10M+ coming soon Bottomline is we can't shy from paying top dollar top talent. We need that to win. Petey - $11.6M Miller - $8M Hughes - $7.85M Boeser - $6.65M We really are not as top heavy as most teams out there. We can absolutely afford another top end talent. There's a good chance we will though, but on D, whether that's Hronek or someone else as our top pairing RD. Could even be Trouba (with retention). Most of those examples only had a couple higher paid forwards. Just now, DeNiro said: Yep they’re have to spend big for one and try and get a low cost one that outperforms their contract Probably, but what "big" ends up being is open to interpretation I suppose. Just now, German Canuck said: No Mikheyev in the top 6 if Guentzel sign with the Canucks and Suter was ok with Miller / Boeser. Eh, I don't think Suter belongs in the top six. I'd rather having something better than "ok" in that spot. Suter is just fine as a third liner, but that's where he should be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeNiro Posted June 18 Share Posted June 18 1 minute ago, Coconuts said: There's a good chance we will though, but on D, whether that's Hronek or someone else as our top pairing RD. Could even be Trouba (with retention). Most of those examples only had a couple higher paid forwards. Probably, but what "big" ends up being is open to interpretation I suppose. Eh, I don't think Suter belongs in the top six. I'd rather having something better than "ok" in that spot. Suter is just fine as a third liner, but that's where he should be. Well if they have interest in Guentzel then they’re clearly okay with spending upwards of 9 mil on one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HKSR Posted June 18 Share Posted June 18 2 minutes ago, Coconuts said: There's a good chance we will though, but on D, whether that's Hronek or someone else as our top pairing RD. Could even be Trouba (with retention). Most of those examples only had a couple higher paid forwards. Probably, but what "big" ends up being is open to interpretation I suppose. Eh, I don't think Suter belongs in the top six. I'd rather having something better than "ok" in that spot. Suter is just fine as a third liner, but that's where he should be. Almost of those teams have around 3 guys making $9Mish and up. We only have Petey making that much. Hughes SHOULD be, but he's not, which is good! lol. If we added Guentzel for $9M, it's not the end of the world in terms of team structure. Hronek will be in the $7M to $7.5M range. I didn't even include those guys on the lists above. I focused on guys making close to $8M and up. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coconuts Posted June 18 Share Posted June 18 (edited) 2 minutes ago, HKSR said: Almost of those teams have around 3 guys making $9Mish and up. We only have Petey making that much. Hughes SHOULD be, but he's not, which is good! lol. If we added Guentzel for $9M, it's not the end of the world in terms of team structure. Hronek will be in the $7M to $7.5M range. I didn't even include those guys on the lists above. I focused on guys making close to $8M and up. Yeah, that's my mistake, I was going off the names you went with and not the rosters. My preference would still be to spread the cap around more amongst the forward group though, but that's my vision of what the Canucks should do up front. Edited June 18 by Coconuts 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HKSR Posted June 18 Share Posted June 18 2 minutes ago, Coconuts said: Yeah, that's my mistake, I was going off the names you went with and not the rosters. My preference would still be to spread the cap around more amongst the forward group though, but that's my vision of what the Canucks should do up front. And I think spreading the cap out is effective too. You just need to make sure your top guys are doing serious damage offensively... the old saying rings true "Your top guys need to be your top guys." 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coconuts Posted June 18 Share Posted June 18 (edited) 12 minutes ago, HKSR said: And I think spreading the cap out is effective too. You just need to make sure your top guys are doing serious damage offensively... the old saying rings true "Your top guys need to be your top guys." I will say that if they are planning to go after Guentzel it'll be interesting to see how that ultimately affects their roster Cap went up but we've already got some question marks in Zadorov, Hronek, Joshua, and so on Moving Mikheyev would help, but I'm assuming management would tinker eith the roster further if the past couple seasons are any indication Depending on the cost to move cap, Mikheyev may even stay I do think we should be looking to add another top 4RD Edited June 18 by Coconuts Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HKSR Posted June 18 Share Posted June 18 2 minutes ago, Coconuts said: I will say that if they are planning to go after Guentzel it'll be interesting to see how that ultimately affects their roster Cap went up but we've already got some question marks in Zadorov, Hronek, Joshua, and so on Moving Mikheyev would help, but I'm assuming management would tinker eith the roster further if the past couple seasons are any indication Depending on the cost to move cap, Mikheyev may even stay That's probably why they have pretty hard lines in the sand set for all of Zadorov, Hronek, and Joshua (Lindholm is walking for sure). Also why we heard rumblings of a Mikheyev buyout. PA/JR clearly have a vision and road map in front of them. With the amount of moves they made this past year, it wouldn't shock me to see a bit of an overhaul again while adding another key component to the core (Guentzel). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coconuts Posted June 18 Share Posted June 18 (edited) 3 minutes ago, HKSR said: That's probably why they have pretty hard lines in the sand set for all of Zadorov, Hronek, and Joshua (Lindholm is walking for sure). Also why we heard rumblings of a Mikheyev buyout. PA/JR clearly have a vision and road map in front of them. With the amount of moves they made this past year, it wouldn't shock me to see a bit of an overhaul again while adding another key component to the core (Guentzel). Probably. I do think we need to be looking to add another top 4RD somehow, that'd balance our top 4 better imo. I've been a proponent of keeping Myers, but while I think he can play top 4 minutes (or closer to them) when injuries strike he's probably better suited to be a third pairing guy at this point. That alone will probably cost us one of Zadorov or Joshua imo. I think Hronek's probably further up on the priority list as far as signings go. Lose Hronek and suddenly you're fishing for two top 4RD. Which is actually doable this offseason, but UFA offers few guarantees. Management worked to upgrade our D last season and it was a big part of our success, it'd be surprising if they don't try and do it again. Edited June 18 by Coconuts Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stawns Posted June 18 Share Posted June 18 35 minutes ago, HKSR said: They also pay top dollar for top talent then try and find the bargain guys for depth... Florida: Barkov - $10M Tkachuk - $9.5M Bob - $10M Ekblad - $7.5M VGK: Eichel - $10M Stone - $9.5M Pietrangelo - $8.8M Hanifin - $7.35M (mind you, last year he wasn't there) TBL: Kucherov - $9.5M Point - $9.5M Vasi - $9.5M Sergachev - $8.5M Hedman - $7.875M COL: Mackinnon - $12.6M Rantanen - $9.25M Makar - $9M Toews - $7.25M Landeskog - $7M Rangers: Panarin - $11.6M Fox - $9.5M Zibanejad - $8.5M Trouba - $8M Shsterkin - $10M+ coming soon Bottomline is we can't shy from paying top dollar top talent. We need that to win. Petey - $11.6M Miller - $8M Hughes - $7.85M Boeser - $6.65M We really are not as top heavy as most teams out there. We can absolutely afford another top end talent. Most of those players aren't declining assets on the back nine of their careers though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HarbularyBattery Posted June 18 Share Posted June 18 40 minutes ago, Coconuts said: I'd argue they need at least two. Suter and Mikheyev shouldn't be in the top six. thats what makes guentzel so tricky. if we get guentzel, we'll need to find a very low price top6 option, assuming we wanna ice a comparable defense to last year 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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