Elias Pettersson Posted June 22 Share Posted June 22 1 minute ago, tas said: you have to base it on percentage of cap, though, not just raw numbers if you want to compare things in earnest. you also have to accept that a ufa on the open market comes at a premium over re-signing your own players. Sure, but we can sign UFA’s at $8 million or below. We aren’t forced to sign a UFA at $9.5 million are we? We could pass on it and figure something else out. I’m sure Calgary regrets giving Huberdeau $10.5 million. He was a 115 point player at one time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elias Pettersson Posted June 22 Share Posted June 22 2 minutes ago, Pears said: I disagree. Guentzel is a game breaker and a proven winner. We all saw how that affected us down the stretch. I wouldn't mind Teravainen either but we need more players like Guentzel. We need top 6 players yes. Do we really need a $9.5 million top 6 player? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tas Posted June 22 Share Posted June 22 Just now, Elias Pettersson said: Sure, but we can sign UFA’s at $8 million or below. We aren’t forced to sign a UFA at $9.5 million are we? We could pass on it and figure something else out. I’m sure Calgary regrets giving Huberdeau $10.5 million. He was a 115 point player at one time. sure, but it's an entirely arbitrary and unreasonable (and unrealistic) approach in my opinion. why is 8 ok but 9 not? what about 8.5? 8.1? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
German Canuck Posted June 22 Share Posted June 22 Just now, Elias Pettersson said: We need top 6 players yes. Do we really need a $9.5 million top 6 player? Guentzel is not only top 6 he is a top line winger and thats a difference. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pears Posted June 22 Share Posted June 22 Just now, Elias Pettersson said: We need top 6 players yes. Do we really need a $9.5 million top 6 player? If you want one of the better ones who's shown he can raise his game when the stakes are the highest then yes. But again, he'll be 30 next season so I strongly doubt he'll get anywhere close to $9.5 million on a long term deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elias Pettersson Posted June 22 Share Posted June 22 2 minutes ago, German Canuck said: Is this the only thing to not call him one dimensional? If a winger is a great two way winger than he would be killing penalties. You don’t pay a guy almost $10 million who only plays the power play. Does Sam Reinhart kill penalties? Mitch Marner? William Nylander? Unless you are a 100+ point player, you better be playing in ALL situations if you want close to $10 million per. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HOFsedins Posted June 22 Share Posted June 22 (edited) 10 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said: Does he kill penalties? If he doesn't kill penalties, he's considered one dimensional? Reality is that is how much a elite winger will cost you especially in FA. Still think he is worth it. Edited June 22 by HOFsedins Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elias Pettersson Posted June 22 Share Posted June 22 3 minutes ago, Pears said: If you want one of the better ones who's shown he can raise his game when the stakes are the highest then yes. But again, he'll be 30 next season so I strongly doubt he'll get anywhere close to $9.5 million on a long term deal. Guentzel isn’t anywhere near guys like Marner, Kucherov, Reinhart, etc. Even Nylander is a more complete player. I have no problem giving Reinhart $10 million. He plays in every situation. Guentzel at $9.5 million? No thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elias Pettersson Posted June 22 Share Posted June 22 1 minute ago, HOFsedins said: If he doesn't kill penalties, he's considered one dimensional? Can you show me great 200’ wingers who don’t kill penalties? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tas Posted June 22 Share Posted June 22 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said: If a winger is a great two way winger than he would be killing penalties. You don’t pay a guy almost $10 million who only plays the power play. Does Sam Reinhart kill penalties? Mitch Marner? William Nylander? Unless you are a 100+ point player, you better be playing in ALL situations if you want close to $10 million per. top power play unit 40 goal scorers don't need to kill penalties. he could if asked, because he's an excellent player at both ends of the ice, but his minutes are best used elsewhere. Edited June 22 by tas 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted June 22 Share Posted June 22 5 minutes ago, German Canuck said: Guentzel is not only top 6 he is a top line winger and thats a difference. Exactly! JG is an elite player. JR knows We need more elite difference makers to win the Cup. JR/Allvin will get their guy. July 1 JG will be a Canuck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tas Posted June 22 Share Posted June 22 Just now, Elias Pettersson said: Can you show me great 200’ wingers who don’t kill penalties? jake guentzel. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
German Canuck Posted June 22 Share Posted June 22 2 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said: If a winger is a great two way winger than he would be killing penalties. You don’t pay a guy almost $10 million who only plays the power play. Does Sam Reinhart kill penalties? Mitch Marner? William Nylander? Unless you are a 100+ point player, you better be playing in ALL situations if you want close to $10 million per. Sorry but this is stupid Guentzel is a skilled speedy goalscorer with great fore and backcheck. He doesnt have to kill penalties to be a 9.5M player. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HOFsedins Posted June 22 Share Posted June 22 1 minute ago, Elias Pettersson said: Guentzel isn’t anywhere near guys like Marner, Kucherov, Reinhart, etc. Even Nylander is a more complete player. I have no problem giving Reinhart $10 million. He plays in every situation. Guentzel at $9.5 million? No thanks. We don't know if he is capable of PKing or not because during his career, it just so happened the Pens lineup wasn't built that way. Majority of the PKers were either on the 3rd or 4th line. He never had to be put in those situations. As for his 2 way game, I would say it's pretty good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted June 22 Share Posted June 22 1 minute ago, German Canuck said: Sorry but this is stupid Guentzel is a skilled speedy goalscorer with great fore and backcheck. He doesnt have to kill penalties to be a 9.5M player. And he would be great on the PK if needed. But great teams have guys on their PK who play bottom six. That’s why we are trying to move Garland. He’s a bottom six winger who can’t PK. Geuntzel is an elite first line winger who would be great at PK if needed. Huge difference in the two players. Which JR certainly understands. He knows what it takes to win Cups. And he knows we need JG. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
German Canuck Posted June 22 Share Posted June 22 Just now, Alflives said: And he would be great on the PK if needed. But great teams have guys on their PK who play bottom six. That’s why we are trying to move Garland. He’s a bottom six winger who can’t PK. Geuntzel is an elite first line winger who would be great at PK if needed. Huge difference in the two players. Which JR certainly understands. He knows what it takes to win Cups. And he knows we need JG. Garland is the kind of player like Sprong or DeBrusk which some of the guys here want to see for a top 6 spot instead of Guentzel. Thats the reason they should sign Guentzel because the other ones are not top 6 or top line wingers like Guentzel. They dont have to sign players like Sprong because such 3rd liners are already on the roster. So for a big improvement a player like Guentzel would bring the Canucks forward group to the next level. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted June 22 Share Posted June 22 2 minutes ago, German Canuck said: Garland is the kind of player like Sprong or DeBrusk which some of the guys here want to see for a top 6 spot instead of Guentzel. Thats the reason they should sign Guentzel because the other ones are not top 6 or top line wingers like Guentzel. They dont have to sign players like Sprong because such 3rd liners are already on the roster. So for a big improvement a player like Guentzel would bring the Canucks forward group to the next level. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elias Pettersson Posted June 22 Share Posted June 22 (edited) 35 minutes ago, tas said: top power play unit 40 goal scorers don't need to kill penalties. he could if asked, because he's an excellent player at both ends of the ice, but his minutes are best used elsewhere. When was the last time Guentzel scored 40 goals? Also, Brock Boeser says hiii. Guentzel can kill penalties if he is asked? Okay, so nobody has asked him in over 8 years? His minutes are best used elsewhere? That makes no sense. Does Paul Maurice tell Reinhart his best minutes are used elsewhere? Edited June 22 by Elias Pettersson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elias Pettersson Posted June 22 Share Posted June 22 43 minutes ago, German Canuck said: Guentzel is not only top 6 he is a top line winger and thats a difference. So is Reinhart, Marner, Nylander. Why do they kill penalties and Guentzel does not? Why do we need to pay a guy almost $10 million who doesn’t play in all situations? Even Boeser kills penalties. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tas Posted June 22 Share Posted June 22 (edited) 7 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said: When was the last time Guentzel scored 40 goals? Also, Brock Boeser says hiii. Guentzel can kill penalties if he is asked? Okay, so nobody has asked him in over 8 years? His minutes are best used elsewhere? That makes no sense. Does Paul Maurice tell Reinhart his best minutes are used elsewhere? every team is made up differently, but yes, small framed 40 goal wingers are best playing their 20 minutes at 5 on 5 and powerplay, no blocking shots and breaking feet on the pk. oh, and 2021-22, but he's scored at 35+ goal rate since then too. edit: and what about brock? he also doesn't kill penalties, but is also a good, defensively responsible forward, though not quite at guentzel's level. Edited June 22 by tas 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R3aL Posted June 22 Share Posted June 22 Friedman on 32 thoughts believes Toffoli is ourback up target to Guentzel if we cannot sign him. Im open to Toffoli the only thing is hes gonna take 21-30 Million to sign him maybe more. Hes been signing value deals for awhile and keeps proving himself. Realistically he strikes me as a guy thats gonna score at least 20 till he hes 35. So if hes hunting for an AAV of 6-7M the team that gives him the most term with a chance to compete for a cup is going to get him prolly. And it just worries me to commit big money on term to him with Boeser contract coming up and JL coming up quick behind him. I am not against it thoughI do like Toffoli I am just scared of term this summer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elias Pettersson Posted June 22 Share Posted June 22 38 minutes ago, German Canuck said: Sorry but this is stupid Guentzel is a skilled speedy goalscorer with great fore and backcheck. He doesnt have to kill penalties to be a 9.5M player. He isn’t Kucherov, sorry. You want almost $10 million you better be on the ice in all situations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R3aL Posted June 22 Share Posted June 22 1 minute ago, Elias Pettersson said: So is Reinhart, Marner, Nylander. Why do they kill penalties and Guentzel does not? Why do we need to pay a guy almost $10 million who doesn’t play in all situations? Even Boeser kills penalties. JG is a proven playoff performer there is that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrJockitch Posted June 22 Share Posted June 22 (edited) Sorry the scoring first line winger needs to kill penalties to be worth his contract is one of the worst takes I have seen on here and that includes Alf. Edited June 22 by DrJockitch 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elias Pettersson Posted June 22 Share Posted June 22 3 minutes ago, tas said: every team is made up differently, but yes, small framed 40 goal wingers are best playing their 20 minutes at 5 on 5 and powerplay, no blocking shots and breaking feet on the pk. oh, and 2021-22, but he's scored at 35+ goal rate since then too. When was the last time Guentzel played meaningful playoff games? 2017? Do small wingers who don’t kill penalties usually excel in the playoffs? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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