Bob Long Posted June 22 Share Posted June 22 8 minutes ago, RWMc1 said: Do you honestly believe that Miller left 21 million on the table? That's asinine. Miller certainly left a lot, I'd think 500k per season for sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RWMc1 Posted June 22 Share Posted June 22 1 minute ago, Bob Long said: Miller certainly left a lot, I'd think 500k per season for sure. I agree but definitely not 21 million. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canuck73_3 Posted June 22 Share Posted June 22 1 minute ago, RWMc1 said: I agree but definitely not 21 million. yeah 4 Mill left off the table is much more realistic than 21 Mil no player would leave that save for maybe Gordie Howe lol 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RWMc1 Posted June 22 Share Posted June 22 2 minutes ago, Bob Long said: Miller certainly left a lot, I'd think 500k per season for sure. Also Miller's salary isn't 8 million per. That's the AAV. It starts high and becomes lower as he ages. That's why I think an AAV of 9 to 9.5 is too much for Guentzel. The later years of the contract should lower the AAV. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Long Posted June 22 Share Posted June 22 Just now, RWMc1 said: Also Miller's salary isn't 8 million per. That's the AAV. It starts high and becomes lower as he ages. That's why I think an AAV of 9 to 9.5 is too much for Guentzel. The later years of the contract should lower the AAV. It's why I hope we see a sign and trade deal. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elias Pettersson Posted June 22 Share Posted June 22 Every winger in the NHL who makes a minimum of $9 million, scored at least 70 points last year and doesn’t kill penalties: Nikita Kucherov - 144 points Artemi Panarin - 120 points David Pastrnak - 110 points Mikko Rantanen - 104 points Kirill Kaprizov - 96 points Filip Forsberg - 94 points Matthew Tkachuk - 88 points Jake Guentzel - 77 points This is a VERY small list. Less than 10. One of these players is not like the others. Can you tell which one? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elias Pettersson Posted June 22 Share Posted June 22 (edited) 10 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said: Every winger in the NHL who makes a minimum of $9 million, scored at least 70 points last year and doesn’t kill penalties: Nikita Kucherov - 144 points Artemi Panarin - 120 points David Pastrnak - 110 points Mikko Rantanen - 104 points Kirill Kaprizov - 96 points Filip Forsberg - 94 points Matthew Tkachuk - 88 points Jake Guentzel - 77 points This is a VERY small list. Less than 10. One of these players is not like the others. Can you tell which one? I’m waiting for someone to counter my argument that Guentzel has no business being in the same category as those 7 players on my list. I’ll wait. Guentzel is a good player. However, he’s coming off a 30 goal season and is hitting 30 years old. He’s not worth $9.5 million. Prove me wrong. Edited June 22 by Elias Pettersson 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RWJC Posted June 22 Author Share Posted June 22 3 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said: I’m waiting for someone to counter my argument that Guentzel has no business being in the same category as those 7 players on my list. I’ll wait. Ask yourself when those contracts were signed…time doesn’t stand still just to afford your argument some $ comparables in an inflationary world, EP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elias Pettersson Posted June 22 Share Posted June 22 2 minutes ago, RWJC said: Ask yourself when those contracts were signed…time doesn’t stand still just to afford your argument some $ comparables in an inflationary world, EP. So based on your argument we should re-sigh Boeser to a $9.5 million extension? You know cause inflation? Isn’t Boeser a 40 goal scorer? What about Hronek? Did he sign for $8 million cause of inflation? Or did we get him at a fair deal based on comps even from 2 years ago? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tas Posted June 22 Share Posted June 22 1 hour ago, Elias Pettersson said: When was the last time Guentzel played meaningful playoff games? 2017? Do small wingers who don’t kill penalties usually excel in the playoffs? are second round games not meaningful now? what on earth? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted June 22 Share Posted June 22 1 hour ago, Elias Pettersson said: Aho is a bum? A big bum head: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elias Pettersson Posted June 22 Share Posted June 22 Just now, tas said: are second round games not meaningful now? what on earth? If Guentzel was such a factor with Carolina, why are they not re-signing him? Can you explain that? They literally have more cap space than we do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tas Posted June 22 Share Posted June 22 Just now, Elias Pettersson said: If Guentzel was such a factor with Carolina, why are they not re-signing him? Can you explain that? They literally have more cap space than we do. they also have more players they're trying to fit in than we do, and an owner who doesn't like to spend. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted June 22 Share Posted June 22 1 minute ago, Elias Pettersson said: If Guentzel was such a factor with Carolina, why are they not re-signing him? Can you explain that? They literally have more cap space than we do. JG is a smart guy. He’s sees a bunch of puck suckers on that Canes’ club and knows they’re heading the wrong way. Plus it’s a joke market. He’s a hockey guy and wants play on an up and coming club and in a city that is crazy for hockey. Phoenix no longer has a team so next best is us!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted June 22 Share Posted June 22 (edited) 4 minutes ago, tas said: they also have more players they're trying to fit in than we do, and an owner who doesn't like to spend. And they are a low income team. They’re a joke. No one cares or knows about hockey there. Their players are forced into doing stupid embarrassing circus craperolla to get fans interested. Edited June 22 by Alflives Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elias Pettersson Posted June 22 Share Posted June 22 (edited) 6 minutes ago, tas said: they also have more players they're trying to fit in than we do, and an owner who doesn't like to spend. They have 19 players signed and have already moved on from Pesce. They have lots of cap space to re-sign Guentzel. They don’t have 9 UFA’s like us. The owner has no problem paying Aho $9.75 million. Wouldn’t Guentzel be the perfect winger for Aho? You know cause he did so well in the playoffs. What gives? Carolina signing Guentzel should be a no brainer really. They can even give him 8 years so can probably do it for $8-8.5 million. But they don’t want to. Speaks volumes. Edited June 22 by Elias Pettersson 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tas Posted June 22 Share Posted June 22 (edited) 2 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said: They have 19 players signed and have already moved on from Pesce. They have lots of cap space to re-sign Guentzel. They don’t have 9 UFA’s like us. The owner has no problem paying Aho $9.75 million. Wouldn’t Guentzel be the perfect winger for Aho? You know cause he did so well in the playoffs. What gives? Carolina signing Guentzel should be a no brainer really. They can even give him 8 years so can probably it for $8-8.5 million. But they don’t want to. Speaks volumes. they have to do something with necas, sign or replace teravainen, sign slavin, replace pesce and skjei. edit: and sign jarvis. Edited June 22 by tas Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lemon Face Posted June 22 Share Posted June 22 (edited) 23 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said: I’m waiting for someone to counter my argument that Guentzel has no business being in the same category as those 7 players on my list. I’ll wait. Guentzel is a good player. However, he’s coming off a 30 goal season and is hitting 30 years old. He’s not worth $9.5 million. Prove me wrong. They said Hronek deal will start at 8 plus.Cmon people no one know what price will be.No need for stress.Enjoy proces Edited June 22 by Lemon Face Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elias Pettersson Posted June 22 Share Posted June 22 2 minutes ago, Alflives said: And they are a low income team. They’re a joke. No one cares or knows about hockey there. Their players are forced into doing stupid embarrassing circus craperolla to get fans interested. They spend to the cap every year just like us. Their philosophy is to not overpay for guys who are hitting 30 years old to long term deals. They are therefore guaranteed to not have a Huberdeau situation anytime soon. At least they are set in that regard. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RWMc1 Posted June 22 Share Posted June 22 10 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said: If Guentzel was such a factor with Carolina, why are they not re-signing him? Can you explain that? They literally have more cap space than we do. He's too good for them. Or his 8 hits in the Playoffs is a sign that he doesn't fit their style. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elias Pettersson Posted June 22 Share Posted June 22 3 minutes ago, tas said: they have to do something with necas, sign or replace teravainen, sign slavin, replace pesce and skjei. edit: and sign jarvis. In other words, they are focusing on the younger guys and rebuilding the defence to more youth. Makes sense rather than sign Guentzel, Pesce and Skjei to long term deals into their mid to late 30’s. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elias Pettersson Posted June 22 Share Posted June 22 1 minute ago, RWMc1 said: He's too good for them. Or his 8 hits in the Playoffs is a sign that he doesn't fit their style. Doesn’t sound like much of a Tocchet guy either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted June 22 Share Posted June 22 3 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said: They spend to the cap every year just like us. Their philosophy is to not overpay for guys who are hitting 30 years old to long term deals. They are therefore guaranteed to not have a Huberdeau situation anytime soon. At least they are set in that regard. The Canes stink. Plain and simple. JG wants to play in a hockey market and NOT some place that only knows college basketball, NASCAR and intimately their first cousins. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RWJC Posted June 22 Author Share Posted June 22 (edited) 28 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said: So based on your argument we should re-sigh Boeser to a $9.5 million extension? You know cause inflation? Isn’t Boeser a 40 goal scorer? What about Hronek? Did he sign for $8 million cause of inflation? Or did we get him at a fair deal based on comps even from 2 years ago? You sign according to current market value for the player. You keep wanting a complete player for your valuation, but if you look across the league that’s not how it works and never has. Teams pay big $ for goals. Goals are what win you games. The fact that you are trying to compare a current Guentel price point to a eg. Rantanen contract that was signed in 2019(!!!!) should be enough for you to realize that the only comparable that would matter in that case is if you’re GM of a team and what bringing a 9mill player into your cap structure does in terms of balance for now and future. Unfortunately, yes…if the market dictates a player can earn a certain value from a willing GM, that then generally raises the bar across the board for similar players with similar expectations. just because you don’t like the price point doesn’t negate market values. And don’t extrapolate and put words in my mouth…I’m not saying we should sign Boeser to that kind of deal. What I am saying is there is competition for JG’s services and that drives the price up for everyone. If there were a plethora of high end snipers on the market, his price point would be lower. There aren’t and as such its not. That’s just the way it is. Here’s a counter…the players you mention on that list. Imagine they are UFA this offseason…what do you think each would command on the open market? That’s the comparable you should be using. Edited June 22 by RWJC 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tas Posted June 22 Share Posted June 22 11 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said: In other words, they are focusing on the younger guys and rebuilding the defence to more youth. Makes sense rather than sign Guentzel, Pesce and Skjei to long term deals into their mid to late 30’s. and they have still tried to sign guentzel. 1 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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