[Speculation] Hurricanes Rumors: Jake Guentzel Likely to Hit Market, Rights available for mid round pick

[Rick_theRyper]

4 hours ago, NoCupSyndrome said:

 

I think he can develop into a top six guy but at this point his playing style seems to be better suited to him being the dominant play driver on a line - he did so well on the fourth line, kept it simple and went to the net. I think he still has some work to do before Toch trusts him with top six mins.

 

Still very few guys stay on the fourth line who score almost 20. 

[NoCupSyndrome]

5 hours ago, Rick_theRyper said:

Still very few guys stay on the fourth line who score almost 20. 

 

He is kind of in the middle right now. That is, not many guys stay in the top six playing 12:06 mins per game. For next season, assuming mgmt upgrades the top six, is he able to score like last season again and learn how to be a consistent top six performer?

[Rip The Mesh]

If you’re someone who likes to draw straight lines in your hockey gossip, try this one on for size:

 

Brock Boeser and Jake Guentzel have the same agent.

A random observer might wonder if there’s reason to think that Boeser is doing what he can to urge Guentzel to consider joining the Vancouver Canucks, now that Guentzel appears set to hit unrestricted free agency.

You can bet that he’s suggested to his agent more than once that Guentzel would be a great fit with the Canucks, obviously on the ice, but off the ice too. Boeser, after all, has come to love his adopted hometown. You know he’ll sing Vancouver’s praises to anyone who will listen — but especially to high-profile potential teammates.

So that’s one direct line.

The other line you can draw, of course, is to the Canucks’ management team, who know Guentzel so well from their days with the Pittsburgh Penguins.

 

Drafted by Pittsburgh in 2013, he signed on with Pittsburgh late in the 2015-16 season after three seasons with the University of Nebraska-Omaha. A high-scoring player in junior, he evolved into a top-end two-way player, scoring a point per game and taking on all the toughest matchups.

He played first with the Penguins’ farm team in Wilkes-Barre, quickly adjusting to pro hockey and by midway through the 2016-17 season was ready for the NHL. He made an immediate affect the Penguins, scoring at a point-per-game pace in the second half of the season, then scoring 13 goals in 25 playoff games.

His career has only carried on from there. He was a key player for the Penguins right until this spring, when he was the top trade target at the trade deadline. The Carolina Hurricanes ended up snagging him and he was a strong performer for Carolina down the stretch and in the playoffs.

 

Now it seems likely he’ll hit free agency next month.

The funny thing here is that in a different universe, Guentzel might have already been a Vancouver Canuck.

At the 2016 trade deadline, a deadline where then-GM Jim Benning and his key AGM John Weisbrod ended up doing nothing, there was plenty of chatter around Canucks defenceman Dan Hamhuis, who was still one of the best blueliners in the game and a pending unrestricted free agent.

The veteran defenceman was one of two notable trade chips that Benning held; Radim Vrbata was the other. But rather than make a move that he felt wasn’t good enough, Benning chose to make no move at all.

Before the deadline there were trade talks with both the Dallas Stars and the Pittsburgh Penguins. The Penguins, you may recall, were then helmed by now-Canucks

president Jim Rutherford, who was always looking to add blue-line depth.

 

A prospect was offered by the Penguins. The Stars offered a third-round pick.

In the end, neither was what Benning and Weisbrod thought the player was worth and for some reason felt that to accept a lesser offer would somehow hurt future negotiations. (Rutherford would end up moving a third-round pick to Edmonton for defenceman Justin Schultz.)

In pondering a trade with the Penguins, obviously a few names came up. One prospect who came up in the Canucks’ internal discussions was a young forward with the University of Nebraska-Omaha: Jake Guentzel. Now at the time, he wasn’t a player who anyone thought would be a 40-goal scorer, or even a key player a year later in a Stanley Cup chase, but scouts saw a player who did everything well. He’s Swiss Army-type forward now, and even then he was that player, though obviously at a lower level. If they needed a goal, often it was Guentzel who would make it happen. He killed penalties. He lined up against the opposition’s best players. Sometimes he would take the big faceoffs, even though he was nominally a winger

 

Simply put, he was The Man for Omaha.

Now whether he was the player put on the table by the Penguins, or even whether Benning and Weisbrod heeded the input of their scouts on Guentzel isn’t known. The duo generally kept their own counsel, usually meeting one on one, the door closed to Benning’s office.

Even team president Trevor Linden would have to poke his head in to inquire on what was going on.

But there’s little doubt his name was in consideration.

Anyway, fast forward to today: there’s little doubt that Guentzel is on the Canucks’ radar.

They made inquiries after Guentzel when the veteran winger was on the trade block going into the trade deadline this season. There’s chatter now that the Canucks might even look to flip a mid-round draft pick in the coming weeks to get direct negotiating rights to the player, before of the market opening on July 1.

 

And you know when the market opens on July 1, if Guentzel hasn’t been flipped anywhere, you know the Canucks will come calling.

And maybe then, finally, Guentzel will be a Canuck.

[stawns]

1 hour ago, Rip The Mesh said:

If you’re someone who likes to draw straight lines in your hockey gossip, try this one on for size:

 

Brock Boeser and Jake Guentzel have the same agent.

A random observer might wonder if there’s reason to think that Boeser is doing what he can to urge Guentzel to consider joining the Vancouver Canucks, now that Guentzel appears set to hit unrestricted free agency.

You can bet that he’s suggested to his agent more than once that Guentzel would be a great fit with the Canucks, obviously on the ice, but off the ice too. Boeser, after all, has come to love his adopted hometown. You know he’ll sing Vancouver’s praises to anyone who will listen — but especially to high-profile potential teammates.

So that’s one direct line.

The other line you can draw, of course, is to the Canucks’ management team, who know Guentzel so well from their days with the Pittsburgh Penguins.

 

Drafted by Pittsburgh in 2013, he signed on with Pittsburgh late in the 2015-16 season after three seasons with the University of Nebraska-Omaha. A high-scoring player in junior, he evolved into a top-end two-way player, scoring a point per game and taking on all the toughest matchups.

He played first with the Penguins’ farm team in Wilkes-Barre, quickly adjusting to pro hockey and by midway through the 2016-17 season was ready for the NHL. He made an immediate affect the Penguins, scoring at a point-per-game pace in the second half of the season, then scoring 13 goals in 25 playoff games.

His career has only carried on from there. He was a key player for the Penguins right until this spring, when he was the top trade target at the trade deadline. The Carolina Hurricanes ended up snagging him and he was a strong performer for Carolina down the stretch and in the playoffs.

 

Now it seems likely he’ll hit free agency next month.

The funny thing here is that in a different universe, Guentzel might have already been a Vancouver Canuck.

At the 2016 trade deadline, a deadline where then-GM Jim Benning and his key AGM John Weisbrod ended up doing nothing, there was plenty of chatter around Canucks defenceman Dan Hamhuis, who was still one of the best blueliners in the game and a pending unrestricted free agent.

The veteran defenceman was one of two notable trade chips that Benning held; Radim Vrbata was the other. But rather than make a move that he felt wasn’t good enough, Benning chose to make no move at all.

Before the deadline there were trade talks with both the Dallas Stars and the Pittsburgh Penguins. The Penguins, you may recall, were then helmed by now-Canucks

president Jim Rutherford, who was always looking to add blue-line depth.

 

A prospect was offered by the Penguins. The Stars offered a third-round pick.

In the end, neither was what Benning and Weisbrod thought the player was worth and for some reason felt that to accept a lesser offer would somehow hurt future negotiations. (Rutherford would end up moving a third-round pick to Edmonton for defenceman Justin Schultz.)

In pondering a trade with the Penguins, obviously a few names came up. One prospect who came up in the Canucks’ internal discussions was a young forward with the University of Nebraska-Omaha: Jake Guentzel. Now at the time, he wasn’t a player who anyone thought would be a 40-goal scorer, or even a key player a year later in a Stanley Cup chase, but scouts saw a player who did everything well. He’s Swiss Army-type forward now, and even then he was that player, though obviously at a lower level. If they needed a goal, often it was Guentzel who would make it happen. He killed penalties. He lined up against the opposition’s best players. Sometimes he would take the big faceoffs, even though he was nominally a winger

 

Simply put, he was The Man for Omaha.

Now whether he was the player put on the table by the Penguins, or even whether Benning and Weisbrod heeded the input of their scouts on Guentzel isn’t known. The duo generally kept their own counsel, usually meeting one on one, the door closed to Benning’s office.

Even team president Trevor Linden would have to poke his head in to inquire on what was going on.

But there’s little doubt his name was in consideration.

Anyway, fast forward to today: there’s little doubt that Guentzel is on the Canucks’ radar.

They made inquiries after Guentzel when the veteran winger was on the trade block going into the trade deadline this season. There’s chatter now that the Canucks might even look to flip a mid-round draft pick in the coming weeks to get direct negotiating rights to the player, before of the market opening on July 1.

 

And you know when the market opens on July 1, if Guentzel hasn’t been flipped anywhere, you know the Canucks will come calling.

And maybe then, finally, Guentzel will be a Canuck.

 

Ironically, if they signed JG, that's probably goodbye to Boes after his contract is up

[German Canuck]

4 minutes ago, stawns said:

 

Ironically, if they signed JG, that's probably goodbye to Boes after his contract is up

No or can you explain why?

[stawns]

1 minute ago, German Canuck said:

No or can you explain why?

 

I'd say, if he has another season like this last one, hrs going to be getting over $9m himself, possibly even higher.  Top heavy teams don't seem to be succeeding in this era of the NHL.

[German Canuck]

10 minutes ago, stawns said:

 

I'd say, if he has another season like this last one, hrs going to be getting over $9m himself, possibly even higher.  Top heavy teams don't seem to be succeeding in this era of the NHL.

I think Boeser is a die-hard canuck and if he will be a canuck for his entire career it will be easy to get a deal done.

 

Maybe they get a deal done sooner then later.

 

This summer for 7 or 8 years × 7.5M

 

Work for both very well

Edited June 15 by German Canuck

[Rip The Mesh]

15 minutes ago, stawns said:

 

Ironically, if they signed JG, that's probably goodbye to Boes after his contract is up

Possible; Brock is probably entitled to a raise and I'm not sure the Canucks will go that route. Tough call.

[stawns]

1 minute ago, German Canuck said:

I think Boeser is a die-hard canuck and if he will be a canuck for his entire career it will be easy to get a deal done

 

I can see him coming in maybe $500k-750k under market value, but that's about it, imo.  If he has another year like he just had, that's puts him out of range of van if they sign JG I think 

 

It also puts up a huge roadblock to Lek, with JG and BB taking up top 6 rw spots for at least the next 4-5 years

[German Canuck]

6 minutes ago, stawns said:

 

I can see him coming in maybe $500k-750k under market value, but that's about it, imo.  If he has another year like he just had, that's puts him out of range of van if they sign JG I think 

 

It also puts up a huge roadblock to Lek, with JG and BB taking up top 6 rw spots for at least the next 4-5 years

And i can see him to take a bigger discount.

At the moment there are only 3 real top 6 players and they need a player like Guentzel.

 

Pettersson

Miller

Boeser

Guentzel

 

Theres a lot of room for Lekk and big support from some vets.

Perfect situation for a young guy to come in and play top 6

Edited June 15 by German Canuck

[Rip The Mesh]

6 minutes ago, stawns said:

 

I can see him coming in maybe $500k-750k under market value, but that's about it, imo.  If he has another year like he just had, that's puts him out of range of van if they sign JG I think 

 

It also puts up a huge roadblock to Lek, with JG and BB taking up top 6 rw spots for at least the next 4-5 years

I get the feeling Boeser isn't the kind of player to try and keep playing much into his 30s. Hard guy to read though. The year he just had may alter that.

[stawns]

3 minutes ago, German Canuck said:

And i can see him to take a bigger discount.

At the moment there are only 3 real top 6 players and they need a player like Guentzel.

 

Pettersson

Miller

Boeser

Guentzel

 

Theres a lot of room for Lekk and big support from some vets.

Perfect situation for a young guy to come in and play top 6

 

Why would he take a bigger discount?  

[German Canuck]

2 minutes ago, stawns said:

 

Why would he take a bigger discount?  

Like i said, a die-hard canuck and IF he wants to be here till the end of his career he will take a bigger discount

[Blitz-Pix]

3 minutes ago, stawns said:

 

I'd say, if he has another season like this last one, hrs going to be getting over $9m himself, possibly even higher.  Top heavy teams don't seem to be succeeding in this era of the NHL.

 

I sometimes feel like it's a no win situation for Boeser.

 

In years past, he didn't live up/ under performed his contract and people were calling for his head and him to be traded.

He breaks out this year and lives up/ out performs his contract and people are happy but suggest maybe it's time to trade him for a haul.

 

If he regresses a bit next season will people call for his head again and suggest he should be traded at or before the TDL?

On the other hand if he replicates or improves his totals from this season, would we be able to afford his next contract?

 

Say he nets between 40-50 goals and is PPG player. Will we have the cap space when OEL's Cap space jumps up another $2+ Million the following season?

I think he's a player who would take a bit of a discount to stick around but his next contract would have to start with $8 (I would think.) It could very well be higher though. 

 

He's 28 next season though, we can't be resigning all our (28-30) year old players to 7 or 8 year extensions or we're gonna get real old/ real quick in a couple seasons. 

 

 Hopefully the CAP continues to rise ($3.5-$5.5) million for a couple more season.

 

 

[stawns]

6 minutes ago, Blitz-Pix said:

 

I sometimes feel like it's a no win situation for Boeser.

 

In years past, he didn't live up/ under performed his contract and people were calling for his head and him to be traded.

He breaks out this year and lives up/ out performs his contract and people are happy but suggest maybe it's time to trade him for a haul.

 

If he regresses a bit next season will people call for his head again and suggest he should be traded at or before the TDL?

On the other hand if he replicates or improves his totals from this season, would we be able to afford his next contract?

 

Say he nets between 40-50 goals and is PPG player. Will we have the cap space when OEL's Cap space jumps up another $2+ Million the following season?

I think he's a player who would take a bit of a discount to stick around but his next contract would have to start with $8 (I would think.) It could very well be higher though. 

 

He's 28 next season though, we can't be resigning all our (28-30) year old players to 7 or 8 year extensions or we're gonna get real old/ real quick in a couple seasons. 

 

 Hopefully the CAP continues to rise ($3.5-$5.5) million for a couple more season.

 

 

 

I think he'll take a discount, but not a whole lot.  This is going to be his last big contract and he's going to cash in, and rightfully so.  

 

As I said, having two high priced, long term contracts on the right side is also going to be a major road block for lekkerimaki 

[Alflives]

14 minutes ago, stawns said:

 

Why would he take a bigger discount?  

Same reason why Miller took 2 mil per less and one year less than he could have gotten on the open market. He wants to live here and play here. 

Edited June 15 by Alflives

[Blitz-Pix]

8 minutes ago, Alflives said:

Same reason why Miller took 2 mil per less and one year less than he could have gotten on the open market. He wants to live here and play here. 

 

I think we got a deal on Miller but not $2 million a season.

I thought he was going to get Zibanejad money...their numbers and minutes were almost identical  in the 3 years leading up to their new contracts. Zibanejad got $8.5 million and Miller got $8 million.   

 

That's a $500K discount. 

 

 

Edited June 15 by Blitz-Pix

[Blitz-Pix]

 

If the Cap continues to rise over the next couple of seasons $6.5-$7.5 million dollar players (today)...

will be getting $8-9 million dollar contracts in a year or two IMO 

 

 

 

Edited June 15 by Blitz-Pix

[Alflives]

3 minutes ago, Blitz-Pix said:

 

I think we got a deal on Miller but not $2 million a season.

I thought he was going to get Zibanejad money...their numbers and minutes were almost identical  in the 3 years leading up to their new contracts. Zibanejad got $8.5 million and Miller got $8 million.   

 

That's a $500K discount. 

 

 

Miller was coming off a huge year and playing great at centre. For sure a club would have come in at 10 x 7 or more. Horfat Wallet got 8.5 x 8 from the Islanders. Miller is certainly a far superior player to that guy. No doubt Miller gets 70 million. Borser will take a big discount to live and play here too. So will Big Z. If a guy is chasing the money because that’s all he cares about, like Horfat Wallet, then we will move on. And PA is great at trades. He will dumperoo the Fat Wallet chaser and make us better. 
Look how we improved after dumperooing Horfat! 

[Ghostsof1915]

I wonder if next year at this time the Minnesota Wild team section on HFBoards goes nuts saying they will get Brock Boeser as a UFA?

[Blitz-Pix]

1 minute ago, Alflives said:

Miller was coming off a huge year and playing great at centre. For sure a club would have come in at 10 x 7 or more. Horfat Wallet got 8.5 x 8 from the Islanders. Miller is certainly a far superior player to that guy. No doubt Miller gets 70 million. Borser will take a big discount to live and play here too. So will Big Z. If a guy is chasing the money because that’s all he cares about, like Horfat Wallet, then we will move on. And PA is great at trades. He will dumperoo the Fat Wallet chaser and make us better. 
Look how we improved after dumperooing Horfat! 

 

I get what your saying and I realize we're looking back on the contracts and deal but...

I feel Horvat got $8.5 million because he was 2 years younger and Lamoriollo kinda had to pay Horvat what he wanted or lose him in free agency

after trading for him at the trade deadline and giving up 1st round pick and one of their best prospects (at the time). Just my take on it though.

 

Perhaps Lou figured their was more upside to Horvat being a little younger (who knows) 

 

[Alflives]

Just now, Blitz-Pix said:

 

I get what your saying and I realize we're looking back on the contracts and deal but...

I feel Horvat got $8.5 million because he was 2 years younger and Lamoriollo kinda had to pay Horvat what he wanted or lose him in free agency

after trading for him at the trade deadline and giving up 1st round pick and one of their best prospects (at the time). Just my take on it though.

 

Perhaps Lou figured their was more upside to Horvat being a little younger (who knows) 

 

Lou did say the Horfat contract was too much money and too long of term. 

[Gurn]

12 minutes ago, Alflives said:

Lou did say the Horfat contract was too much money and too long of term. 

At which point, the owner should have fired Lou.

Why keep a Gm that says he paid too much?

find a Gm that pays the right amount.

 

[bh90]

20 minutes ago, Alflives said:

Miller was coming off a huge year and playing great at centre. For sure a club would have come in at 10 x 7 or more. Horfat Wallet got 8.5 x 8 from the Islanders. Miller is certainly a far superior player to that guy. No doubt Miller gets 70 million. Borser will take a big discount to live and play here too. So will Big Z. If a guy is chasing the money because that’s all he cares about, like Horfat Wallet, then we will move on. And PA is great at trades. He will dumperoo the Fat Wallet chaser and make us better. 
Look how we improved after dumperooing Horfat! 

Vintage

 

If money Is #1 get rid of them

 

When you make millions it's easy to double triple your money through investments and such. 

 

 smart players would care more about structure of contract .... cash is worth more today than tomorrow.

 

Canucks have deep pockets so structure the deal to front load the contract up front so player is given options to invest their money today rather than in 4 years.

 

The potential ROI on 4 million bucks over 4 years is significant

 

A 7 year deal at 9 million per year is nice but a 7 year x 8 million with actual salary being 12-14 million per season in year 1 and 2 can have more value after 7 years

[bh90]

6 minutes ago, bh90 said:

Vintage

 

If money Is #1 get rid of them

 

When you make millions it's easy to double triple your money through investments and such. 

 

 smart players would care more about structure of contract .... cash is worth more today than tomorrow.

 

Canucks have deep pockets so structure the deal to front load the contract up front so player is given options to invest their money today rather than in 4 years.

 

The potential ROI on 4 million bucks over 4 years is significant

 

A 7 year deal at 9 million per year is nice but a 7 year x 8 million with actual salary being 12-14 million per season in year 1 and 2 can have more value after 7 years

 

Also if you look at some of the signficant deals that this management group has signed this is exactly what they did.

 

Petey is 14m+ per year in year 1 to 4. Miller and Soucy all front loaded.

 

Any investor will tell you to maximize your cash return up front