US Politics Thread

[The Lock]

18 minutes ago, Canuckle said:

 

Im sorry, no. Prying open the proverbial Overton window, expanding the conversation (which you seem so opposed to do) does not "make the fascists stronger."

 

And no, illuminating the fact that the war between so called "left and right" is mostly a false dichotomy and in reality just a war between TOP AND BOTTOM, RICH AND POOR does not make the fascists stronger.

 

Education is a good thing. It should liberate you, expand your sociological imagination, and hopefully inspire you to enact some level of prefigurative politics outside of the state system.

 

But if you're opposed to all that, I might question who's really making the fascists stronger in here, my friend.

 

This would be true before Trump. The problem is the republicans separated and spiraled farther right. You now have the Democrats: a right wing party, and the Republicans: and even farther right wing party. We need to see the Republicans get back on track if we ever want to have a hope in seeing even a centrist party.

 

You clearly have your opinions in the end and you clearly think you're more educated for having your opinions (or you just come across as arrogant, I'm trying to decide). Know that it doesn't mean you're better than anyone else here though. We're all striving for our own understanding in the end and, if not, then we create our own jails of knowledge with the bars being our own feelings.

Edited October 5, 2023 by The Lock

[Kootenay Gold]

2 hours ago, King Heffy said:

She's too old for Gaetz though.

He likes them younger; much younger.

 

[Ryan Strome]

@Sabrefan1 I had a question for you. Does Kennedy move the dial at all for splitting the Democratic vote in New York? Or is New York more likely to be establishment democrat?

[nuckin_futz]

Smith is zeroing in on Giuliani's drinking problem to nullify Trump's defence of 'just following legal advice'. Seems everyone was aware Rudy is a drunk. Rudy appears to be in violation of the "Down the Hatch Act"

[Ryan Strome]

Just now, nuckin_futz said:

Smith is zeroing in on Giuliani's drinking problem to nullify Trump's defence of 'just following legal advice'. Seems everyone was aware Rudy is a drunk. Rudy appears to be in violation of the "Down the Hatch Act"

Has there ever been any explanation as to why Rudy held that press conference outside of a adult film store back in like 2020?

[nuckin_futz]

Just now, Ryan Strome said:

Has there ever been any explanation as to why Rudy held that press conference outside of a adult film store back in like 2020?

 

No, they just pretended like that was what was planned.

[Ryan Strome]

Just now, nuckin_futz said:

 

No, they just pretended like that was what was planned.

Well yes I remember that but I thought there had to be a mistake or something lol

[24K]

37 minutes ago, Canuckle said:

 

Im sorry, no. Prying open the proverbial Overton window, expanding the conversation (which you seem so opposed to do) does not "make the fascists stronger."

 

And no, illuminating the fact that the war between so called "left and right" is mostly a false dichotomy and in reality just a war between TOP AND BOTTOM, RICH AND POOR does not make the fascists stronger.

 

Education is a good thing. It should liberate you, expand your sociological imagination, and hopefully inspire you to enact some level of prefigurative politics outside of the state system.

 

But if you're opposed to all that, I might question who's really making the fascists stronger in here, my friend.

Dude, that theory is valid during the Bush years but started to split since the tea party movement became a thing within the GOP post Obama. 

 

Fiscally it is still relevant as both still more or less serve the financial elites of the US, but on social issue and basic gonverance and civics, the two cannot be further apart today. 

[24K]

2 hours ago, King Heffy said:

Based on his posting history, I think he does indeed mean Jordan Peterson, who isn't even a citizen of the United States.

 

This brings up an interesting question: What happens if both the POTUS and the VP pass and the Speaker is not constitutionally permitted to hold the Presidency?

It goes to the president of the senate pro tempre (aka longest serving senator from the party that controls the senate). It then pass down to Secretary of State, Secretary of the Treasury, Secretary of Defense, and so on down the secretary lane in order of office establishment. 

 

Pretty much like how the crown is passed down. Go down the list until you find someone that fits the criteria. 

Edited October 5, 2023 by 24K

[nuckin_futz]

4 minutes ago, Ryan Strome said:

Well yes I remember that but I thought there had to be a mistake or something lol

 

It was a mistake but they do not acknowledge mistakes. Like when Trump is reading off a teleprompter. If he screws up he just plows forward like he meant to say that even though it makes no sense. For example "We must enact this law to protect our children's furniture ....... aaaand future".

[The Lock]

1 minute ago, nuckin_futz said:

 

It was a mistake but they do not acknowledge mistakes. Like when Trump is reading off a teleprompter. If he screws up he just plows forward like he meant to say that even though it makes no sense. For example "We must enact this law to protect our children's furniture ....... aaaand future".

 

SAVE THE TOYBOXES! MAKE TOYBOXES GREAT AGAIN!

[Ryan Strome]

3 minutes ago, nuckin_futz said:

 

It was a mistake but they do not acknowledge mistakes. Like when Trump is reading off a teleprompter. If he screws up he just plows forward like he meant to say that even though it makes no sense. For example "We must enact this law to protect our children's furniture ....... aaaand future".

To be fair, the sitting president isn't much better. "Repeat the line."

[nuckin_futz]

1 minute ago, Ryan Strome said:

To be fair, the sitting president isn't much better. "Repeat the line."

 

He screws up plenty but the difference is he acknowledges it.

[Ryan Strome]

Just now, nuckin_futz said:

 

He screws up plenty but the difference is he acknowledges it.

Yeah I'm not sure I share that opinion. But you are correct. He does screw up a lot.

[Canuckle]

Just now, The Lock said:

 

This would be true before Trump. The problem is the republicans separated and spiraled farther right. You now have the Democrats: a right wing party, and the Republicans: and even farther right wing party. We need to see the Republicans get back on track if we ever want to have a hope in seeing even a centrist party.

 

You clearly have your opinions in the end and you clearly think you're more educated for having your opinions. Know that it doesn't mean you're better than anyone else here though.

 

Thing is the stuff I'm saying is just as true before the Orange Clown as it is after the clown. That's the rub. In fact it's undeniably worse.

 

hey now. I never said I was better than anyone. I might be educated in this stuff, but never said I was better than anyone else nor do I think I am.

 

Just trying to open a dialogue, providing a bit of a different approach to the subject matter than I'd seen previously in the thread. And I mean while the stuff I'm saying is interrelated to American politics, also transcends politics altogether.

 

I agree with your assessment about the Dems being right and Repubs being far right, as far as normative political compasses go, but I'm also not one to subscribe to lesser evilisms as viable solutions for change... especially considering the interests involved in that circus.

 

Change comes from class struggle-- Social movements - sustained, unrelenting movements FORCE change. It doesn't come from the state. It comes from collective people power. Always has.

 

So when you say hope of a centrist party what is that going to change in terms of this?

 

 

https://www.marxists.org/archive/debs/works/1918/court.htm

 

Not much, I'm afraid. And that's the stuff I'm most concerned with when talking about politics and what changes for us exploited peasants out here. Myself included.

[Sharpshooter]

22 minutes ago, nuckin_futz said:

 

[Canuckle]

12 minutes ago, 24K said:

that theory is valid during the Bush years but started to split since the tea party movement became a thing within the GOP post Obama... but on social issue and basic gonverance and civics, the two cannot be further apart today. 

 

Oh? What "theory" is that exactly? 

 

What do you think is so fundamentally different from then compared to now? Who benefits? Who gets fucked?

 

I'm talking about the system itself here. Not just the mechanisms in which they use to dominate and control.

 

That hierarchical power structure hasn't changed regardless of what wealthy puppet they shove on the stage to do their bidding.

[Sabrefan1]

26 minutes ago, Ryan Strome said:

@Sabrefan1 I had a question for you. Does Kennedy move the dial at all for splitting the Democratic vote in New York? Or is New York more likely to be establishment democrat?

 

NYC is basically the voting power capitol of NY state.  All but Staten Island is very Democratic.  If Kennedy were to run for president, most of his votes would come from NYC.

 

As for the rest of the state, it's like most other places.  The cities vote heavily Democratic while the suburbs and outlying areas mostly lean moderate or conservative.

[Ryan Strome]

27 minutes ago, Sabrefan1 said:

 

NYC is basically the voting power capitol of NY state.  All but Staten Island is very Democratic.  If Kennedy were to run for president, most of his votes would come from NYC.

 

As for the rest of the state, it's like most other places.  The cities vote heavily Democratic while the suburbs and outlying areas mostly lean moderate or conservative.

But would the state of New York and or the cities view him as a Democrat alternative or would they view him more as a republican or as an independent? In your opinion as a New Yorker.

[24K]

52 minutes ago, Canuckle said:

 

Oh? What "theory" is that exactly? 

 

What do you think is so fundamentally different from then compared to now? Who benefits? Who gets fucked?

 

I'm talking about the system itself here. Not just the mechanisms in which they use to dominate and control.

 

That hierarchical power structure hasn't changed regardless of what wealthy puppet they shove on the stage to do their bidding.

Your initial proposition is thr dems and gop are essentially the same that is the 'theory'. That I essentially agree pre tea party but now we have one party that is openingly flaunting with authoritarianism and actively trying to put person over the constitution and limiting democracy and striping rights from the people to conform to their social views. 

 

As far as class interest goes I am agreeing with you that fiscally they are not much different and frankly most of the people 'in control care about fiscal issue than social ones. 

[Sabrefan1]

35 minutes ago, Ryan Strome said:

But would the state of New York and or the cities view him as a Democrat alternative or would they view him more as a republican or as an independent? In your opinion as a New Yorker.

 

The last Republican to win the state in a presidential election was Ronald Reagan in 1984.  If he's the only guy with a (D) next to his name, he wins New York State.

 

As for how he's viewed.  He's mostly ignored.  The media is ignoring him and the electorate here and in the rest of the country has a short attention span.  Add that to him not having hundreds of millions of dollars to push his message through and people really don't think much about him.  He made a ripple when he announced, went on the Joe Rogan podcast, and when Biden denied him Secret Service protection and that's about it.

[Ryan Strome]

1 minute ago, Sabrefan1 said:

 

The last Republican to win the state in a presidential election was Ronald Reagan in 1984.  If he's the only guy with a (D) next to his name, he wins New York State.

 

As for how he's viewed.  He's mostly ignored.  The media is ignoring him and the electorate here and in the rest of the country has a short attention span.  Add that to him not having hundreds of millions of dollars to push his message through and people really don't think much about him.  He made a ripple when he announced, went on the Joe Rogan podcast, and when Biden denied him Secret Service protection and that's about it.

Thanks man, I appreciate that. When he announced I thought oh wow he'll end up winning the Democratic nomination. Admittedly, I haven't been following things all that much but it doesn't seem like he's got much support from what I've noticed. But that's why I thought I would get somebody that maybe got a better feel for US politics.

[Canuckle]

47 minutes ago, 24K said:

Your initial proposition is thr dems and gop are essentially the same that is the 'theory'. That I essentially agree pre tea party but now we have one party that is openingly flaunting with authoritarianism and actively trying to put person over the constitution and limiting democracy and striping rights from the people to conform to their social views. 

 

As far as class interest goes I am agreeing with you that fiscally they are not much different and frankly most of the people 'in control care about fiscal issue than social ones. 

 

Not "essentially" the same-- fundamentally the same.  Whether they "flaunt" the power or not, it was always there and the source of their power, the means to that power never changed. Sure, maybe it's fewer and fewer controlling parties due to power, wealth, property accumulation over a long time period making it that much easier to enforce their will and further their class interests, nevetheless there is no democracy. It's an oligarchy. And this is true whether there's red or blue in the white house.

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/blogs-echochambers-27074746

 

They are all pro slavery, pro capitalism, pro state... So I mean you tell me. What's the fundamental difference? They aren't the "left" and right hands of the capitalist class? I'd say they very much are.

Whether we're talking 1920s or 2020s.  The parties, families involved may change (and some the same even!) but the game always stays the same.

Edited October 5, 2023 by Canuckle

[Sabrefan1]

2 hours ago, Ryan Strome said:

Thanks man, I appreciate that. When he announced I thought oh wow he'll end up winning the Democratic nomination. Admittedly, I haven't been following things all that much but it doesn't seem like he's got much support from what I've noticed. But that's why I thought I would get somebody that maybe got a better feel for US politics.

 

If the party doesn't want you to have the nomination, you aren't getting it.  They literally change rules to stop it from happening.

 

That's one of the many things that makes Trump a unicorn.  The Republican party didn't want him the first election so he won the nomination on his own.  Same thing this 3rd time.  They keep trying everything that they can to get Desantis nominated.  Trump is crushing him into the dust.  There's speculation that the Republicans are considering pivoting and putting their support behind Nikki Haley now since she's moving up in the polls, and they'll get a certain amount of votes from the left since there are plenty of leftists that want to see a vagina (any vagina) in office.

Edited October 5, 2023 by Sabrefan1

[Gnarcore]

nvm...

Edited October 5, 2023 by Gnarcore