US Politics Thread

[Johngould21]

1 hour ago, Canuckle said:

 

Conservatives and Liberals support private property rights of the means of production and enforcement of class society.

 

Conservatives and Liberals support the existence of billionaires and continued exploitation and capital accumulation

 

Conservatives and liberals support monetary market capitalism.

 

NEITHER CHALLENGE THE GAME ITSELF. 

 

NEITHER CHALLENGE THE CORE MECHANISMS FOR DOMINATION.

 

and there's  few on that list that kinda make me laugh too

 

"Liberals won" the 8 hour work day and 40 hour work week? Paid vacation? Labor rights? Worker safety laws? Lol

 

Damn near ALL of that came from the rising socialist, anarchist unionization movements.

It was a CONCESSION forced by working people on the state.

 

The "liberals" didn't do that shit on their own accord. THEY WERE FORCED.  They were quite have happy with current levels of exploitation for their industrialist buddies and continued along that way just fine.

 

Christ. Wage slavery is still a thing. Which as we know they both very much support.

 

Sooooooo many of those cherry picked points lack serious context and are outright dishonest. "For" "against" "win" "lose".

 

Yes, skin deep.

 

 

If it weren't for Tommy Douglas, I doubt we would have seen medicare.

[RupertKBD]

Oh yay.....another pseudo-intellectual trying to convince us all that both parties are the same.....

 

Yeah, they're exactly the same.....this is why we see so much bipartisan legislation these days....

 

 

[Ryan Strome]

This is the issue with this thread if anybody disagrees with the echo chamber you get attacked.

[the destroyer of worlds]

3 minutes ago, Ryan Strome said:

This is the issue with this thread if anybody disagrees with the echo chamber you get attacked.

If you want a right wing echo chamber of US politics,  head on over to the r/Conservative on Reddit.   Any criticism or fact checking of their delusional bs gets you banned.  Hell, even posting factual information supported by sources could get ya banned.    Enjoy.

[Canuckle]

16 minutes ago, Johngould21 said:

If it weren't for Tommy Douglas, I doubt we would have seen medicare.

 

100%. And ol Tommy was a democratic socialist.

 

American politics are a bit different with having "two" so-called parties but given the incredible amounts of property, power, wealth the Oligarchs/Plutocrats (whatever we choose to give the economic elite) have it's a joke to think that the state can or will bring emancipatory change through policy. And by emancipatory I primarily mean economic determinism as a whole --how it exists, the institutions, social structures that enforce, and who benefits.

 

They might give us peasants some crumbs to keep us happy now and again, make concessions when they have to protect the game, but other than that very little.

[Satchmo]

12 minutes ago, Ryan Strome said:

This is the issue with this thread if anybody disagrees with the echo chamber you get attacked.

Well, I suggested yesterday you lower your expectations 'cos you won't be changing any minds here.

 

But please don't go away.  I sense you are redeemable.  A perfect candidate for Hillary's camps.

[Canuckle]

25 minutes ago, RupertKBD said:

Oh yay.....another pseudo-intellectual trying to convince us all that both parties are the same.....

 

Yeah, they're exactly the same.....this is why we see so much bipartisan legislation these days....

 

 

 

 

They've convinced you they aren't the same, representative of the same fundamental system. That's the rub.

 

Neither of the 'two" challenge inherent economic determinism, class oppression, or the mechanisms the state uses to enforce hierarchical society.

 

And while interrelated, the critique of political economy transcends red and blue.

 

But sure. "Pseudo."  I reckon you simply haven't done any of the appropriate readings to understand what's being said.

Edited October 7, 2023 by Canuckle

[Mac]

28 minutes ago, Ryan Strome said:

This is the issue with this thread if anybody disagrees with the echo chamber you get attacked.

It is bizarre to me that 80% of canada is extremely angry right now as our country has fallen apart as a direct result of the pathetic corruption and "leadership" from our commie leaning left wing socialist weirdos. 

 

The turdeau has single handedly destroyed our countries reputation and continues to work towards the goals of the WEF through our corrupt politicians. 

 

I cannot fathom how people would vote for the turd yet they do...really disgusting if you ask me. The libs can bring actual nazi's into the HoC while calling normal citizens nazi's themselves.

 

It is like the twilight zone...and more sheeple canadians will stick with libs.....absolutes bizarre. Watching these lefties continually lie, yell racism or "trans" rights (whatever the hell that means), and try to silence normal canadians is shocking. Thank god the pendulum is swinging away from the corrupt turd and his corrupt minions.

[RupertKBD]

9 minutes ago, Canuckle said:

 

 

They've convinced you they aren't the same, representative of the same fundamental system. That's the rub.

 

Neither of the 'two" challenge inherent economic determinism, class oppression, or the mechanisms the state uses to enforce hierarchical society.

 

And while interrelated, the critique of political economy transcends red and blue.

 

But sure. "Pseudo."  I reckon you simply haven't done any of the appropriate readings to understand what's being said.

 

Yeah, whatever perfesser....

 

Nobody has convinced me of anything. I can see with my own eyes that one party wants to make it easier to vote, while the other wants to make it harder...I can see that one party believes in a woman's right to choose, while the other wants to take that right away....I can see with my own eyes that one party is still lying to their supporters about who won the 2020 election, because of abject cowardice....

 

"Oh, but neither side is tearing it all down and starting from scratch!"

 

Ergo, "they're exactly the same"....

[Satchmo]

9 minutes ago, Mac said:

It is bizarre to me that 80% of canada is extremely angry right now as our country has fallen apart as a direct result of the pathetic corruption and "leadership" from our commie leaning left wing socialist weirdos. 

 

The turdeau has single handedly destroyed our countries reputation and continues to work towards the goals of the WEF through our corrupt politicians. 

 

I cannot fathom how people would vote for the turd yet they do...really disgusting if you ask me. The libs can bring actual nazi's into the HoC while calling normal citizens nazi's themselves.

 

It is like the twilight zone...and more sheeple canadians will stick with libs.....absolutes bizarre. Watching these lefties continually lie, yell racism or "trans" rights (whatever the hell that means), and try to silence normal canadians is shocking. Thank god the pendulum is swinging away from the corrupt turd and his corrupt minions.

Pretty good, but it's too long to fit on a t shirt and is missing the word freedom.

[Canuckle]

20 minutes ago, RupertKBD said:

 

Yeah, whatever perfesser....

 

Nobody has convinced me of anything. I can see with my own eyes that one party wants to make it easier to vote, while the other wants to make it harder...I can see that one party believes in a woman's right to choose, while the other wants to take that right away....I can see with my own eyes that one party is still lying to their supporters about who won the 2020 election, because of abject cowardice....

 

"Oh, but neither side is tearing it all down and starting from scratch!"

 

Ergo, "they're exactly the same"....

 

You should go back and read this from the beginning.  Unfortunately the layout of this site doesn't allow for thread context.

 

I already said there were differences between them. Pretty fucking obvious.

 

The topic of discussion is where they are SIMILAR. And those FUNDAMENTAL similarities is what we should be discussing. Those are the most important aspects,  especially if your desire or goal is actual structural change.

 

 

Edited October 7, 2023 by Canuckle
rephrasing

[Canuckle]

[REDACTED]

 

Quoting wrong person

Edited October 7, 2023 by Canuckle

[bishopshodan]

49 minutes ago, Ryan Strome said:

This is the issue with this thread if anybody disagrees with the echo chamber you get attacked.

its getting better.

 

This page alone has 4 very different view points beings expressed. 

[Satchmo]

Just now, Canuckle said:

LMAO

 

no.

Huh?  When did I say that?

[Canuckle]

20 minutes ago, Mac said:

our country has fallen apart as a direct result of the pathetic corruption and "leadership" from our commie leaning left wing socialist weirdos. 

Lmao

 

No

[Satchmo]

Just now, Canuckle said:

Lmao

 

No

That's better.   I'll call off my lawyers and drop the libel suit.

[Canuckle]

1 minute ago, Satchmo said:

Huh?  When did I say that?

Sorry.  quoted the wrong person lol I have reposted to laugh at the  appropriate person

[bishopshodan]

26 minutes ago, Mac said:

It is bizarre to me that 80% of canada is extremely angry right now as our country has fallen apart as a direct result of the pathetic corruption and "leadership" from our commie leaning left wing socialist weirdos. 

 

The turdeau has single handedly destroyed our countries reputation and continues to work towards the goals of the WEF through our corrupt politicians. 

 

I cannot fathom how people would vote for the turd yet they do...really disgusting if you ask me. The libs can bring actual nazi's into the HoC while calling normal citizens nazi's themselves.

 

It is like the twilight zone...and more sheeple canadians will stick with libs.....absolutes bizarre. Watching these lefties continually lie, yell racism or "trans" rights (whatever the hell that means), and try to silence normal canadians is shocking. Thank god the pendulum is swinging away from the corrupt turd and his corrupt minions.

 

By your stats the libs only have 20% support? What are you worring about, things should be fine then, no?

 

Is our reputations that bad? still one of the most desirable countries to live and I thought our econonmy is one of the best in the G7?

 

Wrong thread though..

[Ryan Strome]

1 hour ago, the destroyer of worlds said:

If you want a right wing echo chamber of US politics,  head on over to the r/Conservative on Reddit.   Any criticism or fact checking of their delusional bs gets you banned.  Hell, even posting factual information supported by sources could get ya banned.    Enjoy.

I'll pass. No need for the complete opposite of CDC.

[Bob Long]

1 hour ago, Canuckle said:

 

 

They've convinced you they aren't the same, representative of the same fundamental system. That's the rub.

 

Neither of the 'two" challenge inherent economic determinism, class oppression, or the mechanisms the state uses to enforce hierarchical society.

 

And while interrelated, the critique of political economy transcends red and blue.

 

But sure. "Pseudo."  I reckon you simply haven't done any of the appropriate readings to understand what's being said.

 

So I could maybe begin to agree with you, if it weren't for so much young voter apathy in the US. You can't be a younger (U40) American and complain about the system when >50% of them can't be bothered to vote (https://www.statista.com/statistics/1096299/voter-turnout-presidential-elections-by-age-historical/).

 

U40's can change the system now, if they felt like showing up at the polls. 

[Bob Long]

1 hour ago, Mac said:

I cannot fathom how people would vote for the turd yet they do...really disgusting if you ask me. The libs can bring actual nazi's into the HoC while calling normal citizens nazi's themselves

 

let me field this one for you. Its because the CPC can't put forward a reasonable leader for most people, and the social con base freaks people out with the things they come up with at CPC conventions. 

[Canuckle]

1 minute ago, Bob Long said:

 

So I could maybe begin to agree with you, if it weren't for so much young voter apathy in the US. You can't be a younger (U40) American and complain about the system when >50% of them can't be bothered to vote (https://www.statista.com/statistics/1096299/voter-turnout-presidential-elections-by-age-historical/).

 

U40's can change the system now, if they felt like showing up at the polls. 

 

So that old adage "if you don't vote you have nothing to bitch about" ?

 

There's also the anarchist adage, perhaps you've heard it, which states "If voting changed anything they’d make it illegal."

 

And check this out:

 

Study: US is an oligarchy, not a democracy

 

The US is dominated by a rich and powerful elite.

So concludes a recent study by Princeton University Prof Martin Gilens and Northwestern University Prof Benjamin I Page.

This is not news, you say.

Perhaps, but the two professors have conducted exhaustive research to try to present data-driven support for this conclusion. Here's how they explain it:

Multivariate analysis indicates that economic elites and organised groups representing business interests have substantial independent impacts on US government policy, while average citizens and mass-based interest groups have little or no independent influence.

In English: the wealthy few move policy, while the average American has little power.

The two professors came to this conclusion after reviewing answers to 1,779 survey questions asked between 1981 and 2002 on public policy issues. They broke the responses down by income level, and then determined how often certain income levels and organised interest groups saw their policy preferences enacted.

"A proposed policy change with low support among economically elite Americans (one-out-of-five in favour) is adopted only about 18% of the time," they write, "while a proposed change with high support (four-out-of-five in favour) is adopted about 45% of the time."

On the other hand:

When a majority of citizens disagrees with economic elites and/or with organised interests, they generally lose. Moreover, because of the strong status quo bias built into the US political system, even when fairly large majorities of Americans favour policy change, they generally do not get it.

They conclude:

Americans do enjoy many features central to democratic governance, such as regular elections, freedom of speech and association and a widespread (if still contested) franchise. But we believe that if policymaking is dominated by powerful business organisations and a small number of affluent Americans, then America's claims to being a democratic society are seriously threatened.

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/blogs-echochambers-27074746

 

"Threatened." Putting it lightly, eh. Kicker is it was designed to do exactly that! It's not a bug; it's a feature!

[StrayDog]

1 hour ago, Mac said:

 "trans" rights (whatever the hell that means),

I'll try to explain it to you.

It means that trans people deserve to have the same rights as everyone else. 

I hope that was clear enough for you. Please let me know if there's something you didn't understand.

[Johngould21]

24 minutes ago, Bob Long said:

 

So I could maybe begin to agree with you, if it weren't for so much young voter apathy in the US. You can't be a younger (U40) American and complain about the system when >50% of them can't be bothered to vote (https://www.statista.com/statistics/1096299/voter-turnout-presidential-elections-by-age-historical/).

 

U40's can change the system now, if they felt like showing up at the polls. 

this

[Bob Long]

11 minutes ago, Canuckle said:

 

So that old adage "if you don't vote you have nothing to bitch about" ?

 

well... yeah. 

 

Voting works. Steve Bannon knows this, and he managed to take a relatively small number of MAGA's and control the US primaries to get Trump elected. 

 

There's nothing stopping US U40s from getting organized and dominating the candidate selection process, and getting more socially minded candidates in, and then on voting day get them elected. 

 

 

11 minutes ago, Canuckle said:

There's also the anarchist adage, perhaps you've heard it, which states "If voting changed anything they’d make it illegal."

 

And check this out:

 

Study: US is an oligarchy, not a democracy

 

 

 

OK, show me how that changes.