DeNiro Posted July 14 Share Posted July 14 1 minute ago, stawns said: I agree he was a patsie........however, the real shooters didn't miss and, imo, if this were that kind of operation, Trump would be dead right now I mean they came as close as you could. Again if elite level security could “fail” securing an area is it not possible a professional could fail at an assassination? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Satchmo Posted July 14 Share Posted July 14 Just now, DeNiro said: If only the world were full of simple answers an solutions. The real world isn’t black and white though. Ockham had a simplistic view of the world. I see what you are saying though his view is often quite helpful when writing software amongst other things. It is far from a universal law though and may or may not have any bearing on the matter being discussed. So, we are back where we started. You may be right; you may be wrong. Time will either tell or it won't. People may be arguing over this incident for a very long time just as they still argue about Dr. Mudd's involvement in Lincoln's assassination. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stawns Posted July 14 Share Posted July 14 5 minutes ago, DeNiro said: I mean they came as close as you could. Again if elite level security could “fail” securing an area is it not possible a professional could fail at an assassination? Again, it wasn't elite level security that failed, it was local law enforcement Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the destroyer of worlds Posted July 14 Share Posted July 14 2 minutes ago, DeNiro said: I mean they came as close as you could. Again if elite level security could “fail” securing an area is it not possible a professional could fail at an assassination? I guess then the POTUS should never go out in public again. There is an element of risk involved with every public engagement. The only way to be as close to 100% safe in public events is to create a version of the Pope mobile, then have a ballistic shield surrounded trolley to move POTUS to and from the podium, and then have a podium that is surrounded by ballistic glass. The POTUS will be forever encased in ballistic glass and will be super duper safe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeNiro Posted July 14 Share Posted July 14 2 minutes ago, stawns said: Again, it wasn't elite level security that failed, it was local law enforcement The patsies? The protection of the president falls on the secret service not local law enforcement. They’re the ones with the training for these scenarios. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the destroyer of worlds Posted July 14 Share Posted July 14 2 minutes ago, stawns said: Again, it wasn't elite level security that failed, it was local law enforcement I jest, but TRUMP has been notorious for not paying cities for events. Wonder if this had anything to do with the lacking local enforcement????? This is from earlier this month. https://www.nbc26.com/greenbay/presidential-campaigns-still-owe-green-bay-tens-of-thousands-of-dollars-mayors-office-says Presidential campaigns still owe Green Bay tens of thousands of dollars, mayor's office says Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeNiro Posted July 14 Share Posted July 14 2 minutes ago, the destroyer of worlds said: I guess then the POTUS should never go out in public again. There is an element of risk involved with every public engagement. The only way to be as close to 100% safe in public events is to create a version of the Pope mobile, then have a ballistic shield surrounded trolley to move POTUS to and from the podium, and then have a podium that is surrounded by ballistic glass. The POTUS will be forever encased in ballistic glass and will be super duper safe. Funny how they have bullet proof glass at the presidents inauguration though. It’s not that big of a deal. You can literally set up the stage anywhere. Maybe setting it up without having any thought of potential shooters isn’t a great idea? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the destroyer of worlds Posted July 14 Share Posted July 14 3 minutes ago, DeNiro said: The patsies? The protection of the president falls on the secret service not local law enforcement. They’re the ones with the training for these scenarios. Local law enforcement are brought into protection details all the time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kilgore Posted July 14 Share Posted July 14 39 minutes ago, DeNiro said: If you believe all of those actually happened the way they did sure. A shooting of a president is something that actually happened. They don’t take chances with stuff like this anymore just like they don’t take chances after 9/11. Are you not at all suspicious how this was allowed to happen? It’s fine to take comfort in believing this at face value. Much “easier” to live in a world where people simply made mistakes vs a world where governments kill its own leaders. I think its easy to slot any event that has loose ends (like why he even was able to get set up on the roof), with a 'deep state' conspiracy. Its because the US, and probably every country to some degree, (Look at India's assassination of a political foe in Canada) has engaged in subversive activities with the ultimate goal of protecting the State. On one hand I take issue with people dismissing everything that is labelled a "conspiracy theory". as fake The word "conspiracy" is an actual word in the dictionary. A conspiracy theory is just that. A theory that something could have been pre-planned by more than one individual or group for a political or power or monetary purpose. Some of those theories turn out correct. Like the Gulf of Tonkin. Or the Reichstag. Personally, there are still troubling questions unanswered surrounding 9/11. Like Building 7. That all said...this one seems highly unlikely it was more than a bullied kid wanting to be "somebody". No way they'd send up such a untrained young dufus in there to do the job. Hey, maybe if they had a second shooter, the real expert, taking the head shot. And this kid was just a willing stooge meant to be silenced by making sure his head was blown off. Maybe that guy slept in. Hah...there I go. Are you saying they purposely sent in this kid just out of high school, convinced him somehow to do it. Sent in someone, not well trained with a gun, who may or may not hit the target. If they went through all that risk and trouble, wouldn't they have a better plan to make sure Trump was hit? I just can't buy the theory that this was a conspiracy planned by a serious group. Way too many unseen variables. Like he could have been stopped just climbing up the building, if cops took the crowds shouts seriously. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeNiro Posted July 14 Share Posted July 14 Just now, the destroyer of worlds said: Local law enforcement are brought into protection details all the time. They’re there to be exactly where the secret service tells them to be. If they weren’t at their post that’s one thing but it doesn’t sound like that’s the case. If people from the crowd have to point out a shooter the secret service has already failed. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chon derry Posted July 14 Share Posted July 14 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stawns Posted July 14 Share Posted July 14 5 minutes ago, DeNiro said: The patsies? The protection of the president falls on the secret service not local law enforcement. They’re the ones with the training for these scenarios. Once again, it's a multi agency undertaking. The usss coordinates it all, but it relies on the professional conduct of many. And some are not well trained Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-dlc- Posted July 14 Share Posted July 14 My take which is probably 1/100th correct: A kid, who was bullied and therefore likely had issues, is coming into adulthood during this politically charged and rather hostile environment we live in, and decides to act. Dad just bought him a gun so, hey, time to be a hero. Trump really incites a lot of that with his rage filled tweets and posts. He riles people up...both for and against him. "Fight" as he leaves the stage is a good example of that. He's got an aggressive message delivery and is more unsettling than settling when he reaches the masses. FIGHT - people are connecting with that. The divide...the us vs them. So this kid who's reportedly had to fight (bullies) is now rising up. Finding his power. Probably been seeing/hearing stuff from/about Trump that's hit a nerve. Was he part of something bigger? Maybe. So many "groups" out there that could easily convince a kid who's looking for acceptance to take up their fight. A lot of misguided people who are glomming on....finding their "voices" but they're part of the problem, not the solution. 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the destroyer of worlds Posted July 14 Share Posted July 14 Just now, DeNiro said: Funny how they have bullet proof glass at the presidents inauguration though. It’s not that big of a deal. You can literally set up the stage anywhere. Maybe setting it up without having any thought of potential shooters isn’t a great idea? These kinds of incidents always do bring about changes. I see some sort of screen being implemented going forward. TRUMP is a former POTUS and as of yet isn't the official QOP POTUS nominee. I believe that secret service details get ramped up post convention during the general election. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeNiro Posted July 14 Share Posted July 14 2 minutes ago, kilgore said: I think its easy to slot any event that has loose ends (like why he even was able to get set up on the roof), with a 'deep state' conspiracy. Its because the US, and probably every country to some degree, (Look at India's assassination of a political foe in Canada) has engaged in subversive activities with the ultimate goal of protecting the State. On one hand I take issue with people dismissing everything that is labelled a "conspiracy theory". as fake The word "conspiracy" is an actual word in the dictionary. A conspiracy theory is just that. A theory that something could have been pre-planned by more than one individual or group for a political or power or monetary purpose. Some of those theories turn out correct. Like the Gulf of Tonkin. Or the Reichstag. Personally, there are still troubling questions unanswered surrounding 9/11. Like Building 7. That all said...this one seems highly unlikely it was more than a bullied kid wanting to be "somebody". No way they'd send up such a untrained young dufus in there to do the job. Hey, maybe if they had a second shooter, the real expert, taking the head shot. And this kid was just a willing stooge meant to be silenced by making sure his head was blown off. Maybe that guy slept in. Hah...there I go. Are you saying they purposely sent in this kid just out of high school, convinced him somehow to do it. Sent in someone, not well trained with a gun, who may or may not hit the target. If they went through all that risk and trouble, wouldn't they have a better plan to make sure Trump was hit? I just can't buy the theory that this was a conspiracy planned by a serious group. Way too many unseen variables. Like he could have been stopped just climbing up the building, if cops took the crowds shouts seriously. Again I’m not pretending to have all the answers I just have lots of questions, which shouldn’t be discouraged. As for the kid I mean if it was set up they would have someone exactly like him as a patsie. Did he even take the shots? Was he already dead on the roof? Like these are the things that would take place in an actual CIA operation. They would already have the story ready to go. Call me crazy for being suspicious of the US government if you want. I’ve seen the measures they’ve taken in their history in the name of national security. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeNiro Posted July 14 Share Posted July 14 4 minutes ago, stawns said: Once again, it's a multi agency undertaking. The usss coordinates it all, but it relies on the professional conduct of many. And some are not well trained Easy targets to blame. If there wasn’t law enforcement posted on every side of buildings with direct sight lines that’s 100% on secret service. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kilgore Posted July 14 Share Posted July 14 This is out of the blue but for Peter Gabriel fans, this powerful and brilliant song about a troubled political assassin just looking for attention, came to mind. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gurn Posted July 14 Share Posted July 14 16 minutes ago, the destroyer of worlds said: he only way to be as close to 100% safe in public events is to create a version of the Pope mobile, Why does the Pope need a bullet proof car- if everything that happens is god's will? did he think a bit of glass and metal would stop god? And if the pope got shot, wouldn't he just end up in heaven? Pope's a single guy, so not supposed to be leaving any of his kids behind. I never got the thinking behind the pope mobile. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeNiro Posted July 14 Share Posted July 14 7 minutes ago, the destroyer of worlds said: These kinds of incidents always do bring about changes. I see some sort of screen being implemented going forward. TRUMP is a former POTUS and as of yet isn't the official QOP POTUS nominee. I believe that secret service details get ramped up post convention during the general election. Presidents have already been shot in public and they have put up these bulletproof barriers. Maybe this was just about bumbling law enforcement and nothing more. I feel like when failures of this level happen it’s important to dig deeper. Wouldn’t be hard to find means, opportunity, and motive for agencies within the US. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stawns Posted July 14 Share Posted July 14 6 minutes ago, DeNiro said: Easy targets to blame. If there wasn’t law enforcement posted on every side of buildings with direct sight lines that’s 100% on secret service. No argument here, but the video I watched, with the guy with vast experience in these events......... miscommunication is the norm, not the exception and local law enforcement is not qualified nor trained for these kinds of situations.......especially in a small town. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kilgore Posted July 14 Share Posted July 14 6 minutes ago, DeNiro said: Again I’m not pretending to have all the answers I just have lots of questions, which shouldn’t be discouraged. As for the kid I mean if it was set up they would have someone exactly like him as a patsie. Did he even take the shots? Was he already dead on the roof? Like these are the things that would take place in an actual CIA operation. They would already have the story ready to go. Call me crazy for being suspicious of the US government if you want. I’ve seen the measures they’ve taken in their history in the name of national security. Oh trust me, I completely understand why anyone would entertain the possibilities you raised. History proves that it happens. But I just personally, in this case, think it wasn't a CIA operation. Way too many amateur overtones for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Satchmo Posted July 14 Share Posted July 14 2 minutes ago, Gurn said: Why does the Pope need a bullet proof car- if everything that happens is god's will? did he think a bit of glass and metal would stop god? And if the pope got shot, wouldn't he just end up in heaven? Pope's a single guy, so not supposed to be leaving any of his kids behind. I never got the thinking behind the pope mobile. No great fan of Popes but I've heard that the Lord helps those who help themselves. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the destroyer of worlds Posted July 14 Share Posted July 14 Just now, DeNiro said: Presidents have already been shot in public and they have put up these bulletproof barriers. Maybe this was just about bumbling law enforcement and nothing more. I feel like when failures of this level happen it’s important to dig deeper. Wouldn’t be hard to find means, opportunity, and motive for agencies within the US. As I pointed out, maybe TRUMP's routine of not paying bills meant that the local law enforcement's involvement was minimal and not full out balls to the wall. Maybe. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stawns Posted July 14 Share Posted July 14 3 minutes ago, Gurn said: Why does the Pope need a bullet proof car- if everything that happens is god's will? did he think a bit of glass and metal would stop god? And if the pope got shot, wouldn't he just end up in heaven? Pope's a single guy, so not supposed to be leaving any of his kids behind. I never got the thinking behind the pope mobile. Man, I'd love to see what a trump-mobile might look like Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeNiro Posted July 14 Share Posted July 14 Just now, kilgore said: Oh trust me, I completely understand why anyone would entertain the possibilities you raised. History proves that it happens. But I just personally, in this case, think it wasn't a CIA operation. Way too many amateur overtones for me. Well the other angle of the secret service failing would equal amateur overtones no? The CIA failed in the JFK killing. I mean they killed him but it was sloppy enough that people figured out it didn’t happen the way they said. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.