Gurn Posted July 14 Share Posted July 14 1 minute ago, stawns said: Man, I'd love to see what a trump-mobile might look like It would be Yuge- likely some type of hummer- at least to start. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeNiro Posted July 14 Share Posted July 14 2 minutes ago, stawns said: No argument here, but the video I watched, with the guy with vast experience in these events......... miscommunication is the norm, not the exception and local law enforcement is not qualified nor trained for these kinds of situations.......especially in a small town. But if the secret service is aware of these issues it still falls on them. They’re the professionals that are very well trained. They somehow manage to keep presidents safe in much more hostile situations around the world with many more variables. Im just not gonna accept the bumbling local law enforcement angle right now. Too convenient for the secret service to just sweep it under the rug. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the destroyer of worlds Posted July 14 Share Posted July 14 Sunday night at 8 p.m. ET. https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/rcna161790 Biden to give Oval Office address Sunday evening following Trump shooting The president spoke from the White House on Sunday afternoon and promised to share more in an Oval Office address Sunday evening. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pears Posted July 14 Share Posted July 14 5 minutes ago, DeNiro said: Well the other angle of the secret service failing would equal amateur overtones no? The CIA failed in the JFK killing. I mean they killed him but it was sloppy enough that people figured out it didn’t happen the way they said. There's also been a theory going around lately that it was the driver of his car who did it and Oswald was just the fall guy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sabrefan1 Posted July 14 Share Posted July 14 Let's hope I'm not repeat posting this one too. 'A fundamental security failure': How did a gunman open fire on a Trump rally? While it's difficult to eliminate every threat, some security experts said they were surprised that the shooter had been able to scale a roof overlooking the campaign event. https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/donald-trump/gunman-open-fire-trump-rally-rcna161746? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeNiro Posted July 14 Share Posted July 14 1 minute ago, Pears said: There's also been a theory going around lately that it was the driver of his car who did it and Oswald was just the fall guy. No it was a second shooter from a completely different location which professionals under oath have already stated. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RWMc1 Posted July 14 Share Posted July 14 (edited) The woods are lovely, dark and deep, But I have promises to keep, And miles to go before I sleep, And miles to go before I sleep Anyone else remember that old movie? Not suggesting that is what occurred; the conspiracy stuff made me think of it. Telefon. Edited July 14 by RWMc1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Optimist Prime Posted July 14 Share Posted July 14 52 minutes ago, DeNiro said: Where did I say Biden did it? This is exactly what I’m talking about labeling people with questions as wild conspiracy nuts. It’s actually more dangerous to me to have a society that doesn’t question their governments. Especially one with a history of atrocities and deceit towards their own people. “The simpler explanation is to be preferred”. This is because it’s more comforting and easier to digest for most people. Unless answers are completely laid out for some people they don’t even wanna bother asking the questions. Thankfully I think this younger generation is much better at pushing back and questioning authority and narratives that they’re being fed. Crucial to maintain a free and progressive society. Sorry, i wasn't speaking about you at all. I was generalizing about conspiracy folks. My apologies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaimito Posted July 14 Share Posted July 14 4 minutes ago, DeNiro said: No it was a second shooter from a completely different location which professionals under oath have already stated. Well, multiple shooters according to Rob Reiner's podcast. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghostsof1915 Posted July 14 Share Posted July 14 7 minutes ago, Sabrefan1 said: Let's hope I'm not repeat posting this one too. 'A fundamental security failure': How did a gunman open fire on a Trump rally? While it's difficult to eliminate every threat, some security experts said they were surprised that the shooter had been able to scale a roof overlooking the campaign event. https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/donald-trump/gunman-open-fire-trump-rally-rcna161746? One point. Could you imagine telling a politician where to hold his rallies? Pretty sure the Secret Service doesn't get a lot of input, and have to do the best that they can with the resources they have. It's going to be interesting going forward. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sabrefan1 Posted July 14 Share Posted July 14 2 minutes ago, Optimist Prime said: Sorry, i wasn't speaking about you at all. I was generalizing about conspiracy folks. My apologies. I hope that I'm not coming across as a conspiracy person on this one. I just think the ball was dropped by the USSS and law enforcement on this one. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the destroyer of worlds Posted July 14 Share Posted July 14 12 minutes ago, Sabrefan1 said: Let's hope I'm not repeat posting this one too. 'A fundamental security failure': How did a gunman open fire on a Trump rally? While it's difficult to eliminate every threat, some security experts said they were surprised that the shooter had been able to scale a roof overlooking the campaign event. https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/donald-trump/gunman-open-fire-trump-rally-rcna161746? I like this quote. Kinda sums up things. Jillian Snider, a retired New York City police officer who was often detailed to political events, said it is routine for law enforcement to do a perimeter check extending a few hundred yards ahead of such an event. “That doesn’t mean that someone can’t sneakily make their way to one of those positions afterward, especially if it was someone who had done some preplanning,” said Snider, an adjunct lecturer at John Jay College of Criminal Justice. “There are a lot of places in that area to hide, and you can’t monitor every possible position.” “Someone who is that driven to do something like this will find a way to try and get the job done,” she added. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sabrefan1 Posted July 14 Share Posted July 14 Just now, Ghostsof1915 said: One point. Could you imagine telling a politician where to hold his rallies? Pretty sure the Secret Service doesn't get a lot of input, and have to do the best that they can with the resources they have. It's going to be interesting going forward. Of course not. If the gunman shot from behind the perimeter, I'd say that there was eff all that the USSS could have done about it. I just have a hard time reconciling that the guy was able to get to the most obvious position to take a shot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-dlc- Posted July 14 Share Posted July 14 For me, this was definitely an assassination attempt. Mass shooting....guy just starts firing at random. Open fire on the crowd. This one positioned himself to aim at the stage/Trump. Something quite different. 1 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sabrefan1 Posted July 14 Share Posted July 14 Just now, the destroyer of worlds said: I like this quote. Kinda sums up things. Jillian Snider, a retired New York City police officer who was often detailed to political events, said it is routine for law enforcement to do a perimeter check extending a few hundred yards ahead of such an event. “That doesn’t mean that someone can’t sneakily make their way to one of those positions afterward, especially if it was someone who had done some preplanning,” said Snider, an adjunct lecturer at John Jay College of Criminal Justice. “There are a lot of places in that area to hide, and you can’t monitor every possible position.” “Someone who is that driven to do something like this will find a way to try and get the job done,” she added. I get her point and she knows infinitely more about the security than I ever will, but I tend to side with the other experts who believe that the USSS and local law enforcement screwed up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-dlc- Posted July 14 Share Posted July 14 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duodenum Posted July 14 Share Posted July 14 Looks like the shooter was a republican kid who had an obsession with getting rid of people on the Epstein list, but too early to tell. The rhetoric will change completely from the "dangerous left" to "unity and coming together" lol. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Optimist Prime Posted July 14 Share Posted July 14 1 minute ago, Sabrefan1 said: I hope that I'm not coming across as a conspiracy person on this one. I just think the ball was dropped by the USSS and law enforcement on this one. That is going to be the assumption by half the folks every time something happens. You just can't stop crazy 100% of the time, and that is what appears to have happened, a crazy person with super easy access to guns tried and succeeded to shoot Donald Trump. Every time a shooter shoots someone in America it isn't a failing of security personel, it is a symptom of a wider problem throughout the USA. I used a tool I have access to to count every homicidal attempt in the US in the 24 hours before Trump was shot at: 33 shootings and three stabbings: 12 or 14 hours after he was shot at i counted the ones just since that shooting and it was already at 46 shootings and 3 stabbings SINCE Trump was winged. If the day before is a snapshot of shootings in the USA, at 33 in 24 hours, and when things ratchet up in the zeitgeist like they did post shooting of trump to 49 murderous attempts across the mainland USA in 14 hours. That speaks to mental health and access to guns far more than it speaks to 85 'failings of security'. In my opinion of course. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the destroyer of worlds Posted July 14 Share Posted July 14 Just now, Sabrefan1 said: I get her point and she knows infinitely more about the security than I ever will, but I tend to side with the other experts who believe that the USSS and local law enforcement screwed up. Ya, that rooftop should have been occupied. But as someone pointed out, there are limited resources available. The official general election campaign hasn't started yet. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Optimist Prime Posted July 14 Share Posted July 14 2 minutes ago, the destroyer of worlds said: Ya, that rooftop should have been occupied. But as someone pointed out, there are limited resources available. The official general election campaign hasn't started yet. There is at least 22 structures in this small image alone. Again: when trump has had a thousand events in the years since leaving office: how much security is the required amount? Enough to keep him safe from foreseeable threats is the answer. Unfortunately crazy is the highest level of unforeseen events. All well. I think i am wasting my breathe... Have fun in the thread, but if we are gonna do conspiracies vs incompetence as the only two choices, i am out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sabrefan1 Posted July 14 Share Posted July 14 7 minutes ago, Optimist Prime said: That is going to be the assumption by half the folks every time something happens. You just can't stop crazy 100% of the time, and that is what appears to have happened, a crazy person with super easy access to guns tried and succeeded to shoot Donald Trump. Every time a shooter shoots someone in America it isn't a failing of security personel, it is a symptom of a wider problem throughout the USA. I used a tool I have access to to count every homicidal attempt in the US in the 24 hours before Trump was shot at: 33 shootings and three stabbings: 12 or 14 hours after he was shot at i counted the ones just since that shooting and it was already at 46 shootings and 3 stabbings SINCE Trump was winged. If the day before is a snapshot of shootings in the USA, at 33 in 24 hours, and when things ratchet up in the zeitgeist like they did post shooting of trump to 49 murderous attempts across the mainland USA in 14 hours. That speaks to mental health and access to guns far more than it speaks to 85 'failings of security'. In my opinion of course. I suppose we'll know soon enough. I'm just speculating. What I know about security would fit in a thimble with room left over. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the destroyer of worlds Posted July 14 Share Posted July 14 1 minute ago, Optimist Prime said: There is at least 22 structures in this small image alone. Again: when trump has had a thousand events in the years since leaving office: how much security is the required amount? Enough to keep him safe from foreseeable threats is the answer. Unfortunately crazy is the highest level of unforeseen events. All well. I think i am wasting my breathe... Have fun in the thread, but if we are gonna do conspiracies vs incompetence as the only two choices, i am out. That's been kinda my point. Limited resources. I earlier brought up an article from this month about TRUMP not paying his bills for events like this one. The general election has not officially started, so Secret Service protections for candidates has not been ramped up (See articles about RFK Jr. bitching about it). A rooftop with that line of sight should have been identified. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stawns Posted July 14 Share Posted July 14 14 minutes ago, Duodenum said: Looks like the shooter was a republican kid who had an obsession with getting rid of people on the Epstein list, but too early to tell. The rhetoric will change completely from the "dangerous left" to "unity and coming together" lol. That would be delicious irony if that were the case Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sabrefan1 Posted July 14 Share Posted July 14 2 minutes ago, the destroyer of worlds said: That's been kinda my point. Limited resources. I earlier brought up an article from this month about TRUMP not paying his bills for events like this one. The general election has not officially started, so Secret Service protections for candidates has not been ramped up (See articles about RFK Jr. bitching about it). A rooftop with that line of sight should have been identified. I think I remember reading not long ago that Trump's detail was increased when it became obvious that he was going to make it to the general election. That's the weird part for me. I'm betting he's going to get a proper increase now. This is turning out to be a bit of a black eye on the USSS. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Petey O Posted July 14 Share Posted July 14 14 minutes ago, -dlc- said: Absolute hero. I hope the scumbag shooter rots in hell, including the people (you know who you are) who were cheering him on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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