US Politics Thread

[Curmudgeon]

39 minutes ago, nuckin_futz said:

Having read Jack Smith's legal brief I cannot fathom how anyone could objectively read the evidence presented (entirely by Republicans) and conclude anything other than this was a coup attempt. This was an attempt to subvert the will of the people. First through a campaign of stolen election lies and non existent election fraud. Where Trump was told repeatedly by his own people and experts that his claims were meritless. He then just brought in people like Giuliani who would parrot his lies.

 

Then when the courts turned him away he moved on to a campaign of intimidating State Officials. Resulting in angry mobs turning up at their homes threatening and intimidating them and their families. When that failed he ginned up lies about election workers. Putting them at risk of violence.

 

And then of course there was his incredibly brazen fake electors plot. All of his henchmen like Chesboro and Eastman have sung like canaries. The evidence of all of this is damning.

 

When all of that failed he sent a mob to ransack the capital. In a final attempt to scare Mike Pence into bending to his will.

 

As much as it pains me to say this Mike Pence deserves special praise for standing up to the pressure campaign and threats (mostly by Trump) and doing the right thing even at great risk to his own personal safety.

 

This is an excellent synopsis of a very long, incredibly detailed and expertly argued document. I also read the whole thing and agree with Futz that any reasonable person would conclude that Trump is guilty as charged. The first 80 or so pages reads like a true crime novel. It is astounding how corrupt Trump was and is.

 

Edit: Couple of other things. The first half describes the crimes, the second part makes the case that Trump was not operating in his capacity as president, but as a candidate, so he is not immune from crimes committed while he was a candidate. Also, it helps to have a list of who is who. Google search redacted names Jack Smith filing. 

Edited yesterday at 06:12 AM by Curmudgeon

[Cranston]

12 hours ago, SilentSam said:

 

 

 

[4petesake]

6 minutes ago, Cranston said:

 

 

You get that Congress approves the budget to be spent on migrant issues and FEMA distributes it, right?

 

The $650 million cited by Republicans refers to the Shelter and Services Program (SSP), which had a budget of that amount for Fiscal Year 2024, which ended on September 30.

SSP allocates funds to migrant support groups, nonprofits, and state and local governments to distribute to those in need of shelter, food or medical care.

While the funds are distributed by FEMA, they do not come from the agency's budget.

 

The DHS Appropriations Act 2024 shows that the money is from the U.S. Customs and Border Protection (CBP) budget, which is then given to FEMA to hand out, "helping to facilitate the safe, orderly, and humane release of asylum seekers and families".

CBP influences where the cash is spent, with a requirement to send operational data to FEMA on a quarterly basis. This data helps guide FEMA on where to allocate the funds, particularly to shelters that support CBP's border security mission.

[Duodenum]

10 minutes ago, 4petesake said:

 

You get that Congress approves the budget to be spent on migrant issues and FEMA distributes it, right?

 

 

The $650 million cited by Republicans refers to the Shelter and Services Program (SSP), which had a budget of that amount for Fiscal Year 2024, which ended on September 30.

SSP allocates funds to migrant support groups, nonprofits, and state and local governments to distribute to those in need of shelter, food or medical care.

While the funds are distributed by FEMA, they do not come from the agency's budget.

 

 

The DHS Appropriations Act 2024 shows that the money is from the U.S. Customs and Border Protection (CBP) budget, which is then given to FEMA to hand out, "helping to facilitate the safe, orderly, and humane release of asylum seekers and families".

CBP influences where the cash is spent, with a requirement to send operational data to FEMA on a quarterly basis. This data helps guide FEMA on where to allocate the funds, particularly to shelters that support CBP's border security mission.

Hey! No facts allowed. Scary falsehoods only. @Canorth? Sorry Canorth tagged you accidentally.

 

@Cranston would you like to apologize for passing off regular FEMA distribution as some kind of gotcha, blatantly misleading people?

Edited yesterday at 06:13 AM by Duodenum

[Warhippy]

12 minutes ago, Cranston said:

 

It's always amusing to me when you types come in here swinging your nonsense like you have a clue how the system works.

 

FEMA gets a budget plus top ups per disaster.

 

FEMA also distributes money earmarked for various issues outside of its budget

 

This does not mean it spent money earmarked for FEMA on anything, it means they facilitated the spending and movement of money given above and beyond for reasons other than emergencies.

 

But hey, look at you.  You tried.  You're someone's special boy.

[Cranston]

6 minutes ago, Warhippy said:

It's always amusing to me when you types come in here swinging your nonsense like you have a clue how the system works.

 

FEMA gets a budget plus top ups per disaster.

 

FEMA also distributes money earmarked for various issues outside of its budget

 

This does not mean it spent money earmarked for FEMA on anything, it means they facilitated the spending and movement of money given above and beyond for reasons other than emergencies.

 

But hey, look at you.  You tried.  You're someone's special boy.

FEMA can't move money around in it's budget that it doesn't have.

[Cranston]

21 minutes ago, 4petesake said:

 

You get that Congress approves the budget to be spent on migrant issues and FEMA distributes it, right?

 

 

The $650 million cited by Republicans refers to the Shelter and Services Program (SSP), which had a budget of that amount for Fiscal Year 2024, which ended on September 30.

SSP allocates funds to migrant support groups, nonprofits, and state and local governments to distribute to those in need of shelter, food or medical care.

While the funds are distributed by FEMA, they do not come from the agency's budget.

 

 

The DHS Appropriations Act 2024 shows that the money is from the U.S. Customs and Border Protection (CBP) budget, which is then given to FEMA to hand out, "helping to facilitate the safe, orderly, and humane release of asylum seekers and families".

CBP influences where the cash is spent, with a requirement to send operational data to FEMA on a quarterly basis. This data helps guide FEMA on where to allocate the funds, particularly to shelters that support CBP's border security mission.

There's a reason I showed the headlines only. This seems to be a good answer. I wonder if SSP is a subset of FEMA which could still make criticism valid.

[4petesake]

4 minutes ago, Cranston said:

FEMA can't move money around in it's budget that it doesn't have.

 

FEMA can’t move money earmarked for migrant issues anywhere else, period. FEMA can move money earmarked for Disaster Relief anywhere necessary. The day before the hurricane hit 18 Senators and 82 Governors voted against a bill appropriating money for Disaster Relief. Every vote against was from a Republican so maybe start there if you’re looking to point fingers.

[Duodenum]

Hurricane Helene efforts and FEMA has what it needs for immediate response and recovery efforts. As FEMA Administrator Deanne Criswell has said, she has the full authority to spend against the President’s budget, but we’re not out of hurricane season yet so we need to keep a close eye on it.

 

Rumor: FEMA is confiscating donations meant for survivors.

 

Fact: This is false. FEMA does not take donations and/or food from survivors or voluntary organizations. Donations of food, water, or other goods are handled by voluntary agencies who specialize in storing, sorting, cleaning and distributing donated items. 

 

FEMA does not conduct vehicle stops or handle road closures with armed guards -- those are done by local law enforcement.

Fact: This is false. No money is being diverted from disaster response needs. FEMA’s disaster response efforts and individual assistance is funded through the Disaster Relief Fund, which is a dedicated fund for disaster efforts. Disaster Relief Fund money has not been diverted to other non-disaster related efforts. The funding for communities to support migrants is appropriated by Congress to Customs and Border Patrol – it has nothing to do with FEMA’s Disaster Relief Fund. FEMA’s Disaster Relief Fund has enough funding to support Hurricane Helene efforts and FEMA has what it needs for immediate response and recovery efforts. As FEMA Administrator Deanne Criswell has said, she has the full authority to spend against the President’s budget, but we’re not out of hurricane season yet so we need to keep a close eye on it.

Rumor: FEMA is confiscating donations meant for survivors.

Fact: This is false.  FEMA does not take donations and/or food from survivors or voluntary organizations. Donations of food, water, or other goods are handled by voluntary agencies who specialize in storing, sorting, cleaning and distributing donated items. 

FEMA does not conduct vehicle stops or handle road closures with armed guards -- those are done by local law enforcement.

 

 

From FEMA themselves.

https://www.fema.gov/press-release/20241004/fema-launches-web-page-respond-rumors-and-confirm-facts-related-hurricane

Edited yesterday at 06:38 AM by Duodenum

[Warhippy]

21 minutes ago, Cranston said:

FEMA can't move money around in it's budget that it doesn't have.

Which is why the money you are suggesting it DID, was never part of it's budget to begin with as was told to your person by another poster.  SSP is actually administered by FEMA AND the Border services branch with the CBP providing the actual hands on aspect.

 

It helps to understand this stuff instead of memes.

[Cranston]

4 minutes ago, Warhippy said:

Which is why the money you are suggesting it DID, was never part of it's budget to begin with as was told to your person by another poster.  SSP is actually administered by FEMA AND the Border services branch with the CBP providing the actual hands on aspect.

 

It helps to understand this stuff instead of memes.

Those were headlines not memes. 

[Duodenum]

Now its time to play dumb and act like you didn't know exactly what you were doing.

Take the L and move on. 

[Cranston]

5 minutes ago, Duodenum said:

Now its time to play dumb and act like you didn't know exactly what you were doing.

Take the L and move on. 

You think I posted without commentary by accident. lol

[Warhippy]

7 minutes ago, Cranston said:

Those were headlines not memes. 

Pray tell sir, where ever did you procure said "headlines" in such a format?

 

Breanna Morello?  Oh yes.  I see.

 

Nevermind.

 

An individual who flamed out of FOX News because of her vaccine mandate views, cheered for Jan 6th and pushed the babygate narrative shouldn't be expected to be able to differentiate between a headline and an actual fact when the actual fact is different whereas the headline is there for anyone dumb enough to not be able to tell the difference and gives them the ability to fool people less intelligent than themselves

 

 

[Warhippy]

1 minute ago, Cranston said:

You think I posted without commentary by accident. lol

No.

 

We know you want attention.

[Cranston]

3 minutes ago, Warhippy said:

No.

 

We know you want attention.

No. I see someone posted FEMA wasn't giving money out, i see these headlines that say they were, I post it and got the excuses. Maybe they make sense, maybe they don't. I might look into it further.

[Duodenum]

10 minutes ago, Cranston said:

You think I posted without commentary by accident. lol

Commentary would've just made the post worse 

 

Better luck next time

[Warhippy]

3 minutes ago, Cranston said:

No. I see someone posted FEMA wasn't giving money out, i see these headlines that say they were, I post it and got the excuses. Maybe they make sense, maybe they don't. I might look into it further.

you might look in to it?

 

If you had any desire to learn the facts or actual truth you certainly would.  but then that would mean leaving behind your bias and admitting you were wrong, and that maybe your preferred side of the fence is actually wrong; and that is not something most people are capable of doing

[Cranston]

2 minutes ago, Warhippy said:

you might look in to it?

 

If you had any desire to learn the facts or actual truth you certainly would.  but then that would mean leaving behind your bias and admitting you were wrong, and that maybe your preferred side of the fence is actually wrong; and that is not something most people are capable of doing

I can't be wrong because I didn't state anything, I posted what FEMA is broadcasting. That is all.

I've already begun to look into it. FEMA spends more money than I would have dreamed possible for starters.

[4petesake]

16 minutes ago, Cranston said:

I can't be wrong because I didn't state anything, I posted what FEMA is broadcasting. That is all.

I've already begun to look into it. FEMA spends more money than I would have dreamed possible for starters.

 

FEMA’s Disaster Relief Fund spending has seen absolutely massive increases since Hurricane Katrina and things aren’t likely to improve. 
 

 

[Sabrefan1]

Let's see if I can chum the waters... 

 

Trump/Musk had a heckuva crowd in Pennsylvania yesterday...

 

 

 

Edited yesterday at 01:20 PM by Sabrefan1
spelling error

[Warhippy]

7 hours ago, Cranston said:

I can't be wrong because I didn't state anything, I posted what FEMA is broadcasting. That is all.

I've already begun to look into it. FEMA spends more money than I would have dreamed possible for starters.

No.

 

You have an agenda.  You have a side.  You know exactly what you're doing.  

 

You're obviously an adult so act like one and own that.

[Warhippy]

1 hour ago, Sabrefan1 said:

Let's see if I can chum the waters... 

 

Trump/Musk had a heckuva crowd in Pennsylvania yesterday...

 

 

 

Amazing!

 

Like 6400 people and almost no genetic diversity or more than 10 full sets of teeth among them

[Boudrias]

I expect Harris/Walz to win this election and hopefully start to heal the American politic during their term. I am not a Harris fan and question her ethics at times. But she is not Trump who has to be removed from the American political process. 

 

That said 70% of Republicans believed the 2020 election was fraudulent. Why? Sorry but these are not all low IQ KKK/nazi adherents. What is going on? There is a crisis of authority in the USA. Many people don't believe in politicians or institutions are telling them the truth. IMO much of this is being created by Russia, China and Iran. It is a very deliberate attempt to influence USA foreign policy and undermine the social fabric. Trump cannot stand on his own merits but has gained an audience by many Americans who want to reject world influences and embrace isolationism which has existed for the life of the country. 

 

Subtle or direct there are ongoing attempts to limit the 1st Ammendment rights in the USA constitution. It is supported by members of Congress, government agencies, large institutions, companies and universities. It is a reaction to the extreme views that are seen on social media and verbalized in puclic forums. In many instances it is an effort to retrieve a norm that has been lost. Limiting 1st Ammendment rights is a slippery slope that cannot be tolerated. Both sides of the political forum suggest such limitations. Democrats do so more than Republicans. When JD Vance says that Haitians are eating people's pets he cannot be limited to making that accusation. The responsibility of civil society is to expose the untruth and deligitimize Vance for saying it. People must go through a process whereby they determine the value of a person asking for their support. Tim Walz was attacked for making statements about Tinnamen Square while he was in Hong Kong. It was later determined he was not there. In the hectic process of public life people can make mistakes. Walz made one but  does that discredit him in a major way? I don't think so.  

[bolt]

Nothing more than the Democrats using the DOJ for political gain.  

 

Edited yesterday at 03:33 PM by bolt