US Politics Thread

[stawns]

12 minutes ago, Master Mind said:

 

I love Carlin, but it's funny you mention him as there's many on the left who greatly dislike him as they find him too offensive. The same with other comedians.

 

 

Yes generally speaking, but now that we're seeing more on the left adopting this mentality, going against what left views normally stand for, it's a turnoff for many.

 

When the right appears to be more open minded (in some ways, such as comedy), you know the left have pushed the envelope too far.

 

They don't like the libertarian flares he sends up once in awhile I think.  He's anti government, but the core of his being is far to the left, no question.

 

I find it so ironic that so many on the right hold him up as some kind of hero, when, really, he's hard left

 

[Bob Long]

39 minutes ago, AatuD2 said:

 

 

Exactly 

 

@stawns the left is no longer what you think it is. 

 

Republicans and Democrats together are part of a uniparty that forms the establishment. 

 

Biden is a war mongerer. Bush and Cheney were war mongerers. 

Nikki Haley would take us even closer to a WW3 if she somehow makes it in. 

 

Corporations love Democrats as much as they love the Republicans. 

 

People are electing anti-establishment candidates everywhere because they're sick and tired of the carefully PR manipulated image that the same old people are giving them. 

 

None of these politicians are some sort of monsters individually (except James Lindsay), they're just doing what needs to be done to keep the money flowing in established routes. 

 

 

 

 

my main point really is that there are too many extremist views on both sides of the aisle now, not that one is worse than the other.

 

E.g., I can't stand evangelical right wing politics nor do I like the ridiculous way some universities are now run by far left administrations. Both of them suck. 

 

[stawns]

2 minutes ago, Bob Long said:

 

yea I don't agree that all people on the left actually care about people. A lot of them care about their politics much more. 

 

In what context?  Can you elaborate a bit there?

[nuckin_futz]

The allegations in this story are bizarre to say the least. In addition to Vince McMahon being a Special Advisor Vince's Wife Linda was the administrator of the SBA Small business Association in the Trump Administration.

 

Click the tweet if you want to read the rest of the allegations.

[Bob Long]

15 minutes ago, Master Mind said:

 

Yes generally speaking, but now that we're seeing more on the left adopting this mentality, going against what left views normally stand for, it's a turnoff for many.

 

When the right appears to be more open minded (in some ways, such as comedy), you know the left have pushed the envelope too far.

 

Somehow the progressive side of the left has adopted the idea that day to day issues are solved. Far from it. North America, and the US in particular, need a left that can deliver on making regular families lives better. They've managed to do a bit of that on healthcare, but they've lost the vote of the average blue collar worker to Trump. Which is a tragedy, that guy couldn't care less about the average Joe. 

 

 

[bishopshodan]

20 minutes ago, Master Mind said:

When the right appears to be more open minded (in some ways, such as comedy), you know the left have pushed the envelope too far.

 

Totally agree that some on the left have pushed the envelope too far.

 

But I think you should use the word 'some' like you did to allow right wing to carry a title of... open minded.

 I believe there are a lot of left leaning people that agree with you about comedy and the arts in general. 

Edited January 28 by bishopshodan

[Bob Long]

3 minutes ago, stawns said:

 

In what context?  Can you elaborate a bit there?

 

sure. Look at the major universities in the US, e.g. So much attention to issues that have nothing to do with a better education, its all about name, blame, and shame. 

 

What have the progressives in the US done for wages? rent levels? new industries? I don't see it. I don't see a plan at all from the progressives in the US for basic kitchen table issues.

 

In Canada, we're a bit luckier. Our left does tend to think more about these things and we haven't got into the full on divide the US has, although Poilievre is trying. 

[stawns]

2 minutes ago, Bob Long said:

 

Somehow the progressive side of the left has adopted the idea that day to day issues are solved. Far from it. North America, and the US in particular, need a left that can deliver on making regular families lives better. They've managed to do a bit of that on healthcare, but they've lost the vote of the average blue collar worker to Trump. Which is a tragedy, that guy couldn't care less about the average Joe. 

 

 

 

The right courts the poorly educated and exploits the frustration they feel with life and churns that into hate.  Those people would never vote on the left, regardless.  

[Master Mind]

14 minutes ago, nuckin_futz said:

 

What does it matter if they're more open minded in reactions to comedy when they're intent on stripping you of your rights and freedoms?

 

Abortion all but gone, books banned en masse and now this .........

 

Florida advances law banning children under 16 from using social media

Bill would prohibit teenagers from creating an account, and is now headed to the state’s Republican-controlled senate

 

Florida lawmakers advanced a bill on Wednesday that would prohibit social media platforms from allowing young teens to have an account while requiring everyone else to verify their age.

 

The measure prohibits anyone under 16 from creating a new social media account and requires platforms to delete existing accounts held by minors who are younger than 16. It also would require social media companies to delete any personal information from the accounts and for the platforms to use a “nongovernmental, independent, third-party not affiliated with the social media platform” to verify users’ age.

 

The bill passed the Florida house with a bipartisan 106-13 vote and now heads to the Republican-controlled senate.

 

“These dopamine hits [from social media] are so addictive, it’s like a digital fentanyl,” Fiona McFarland, a Republican state lawmaker who cosponsored the legislation, said on the house floor on Wednesday, according to Politico. “And even the most plugged-in parent or attuned teen has a hard time shutting the door against these addictive features.”

 

Vivek Murthy, the US surgeon general, released a warning last year about the dangers of social media for kids. While he said more research was needed to fully understand the effects, “there are ample indicators that social media can also have a profound risk of harm to the mental health and wellbeing of children and adolescents”.

 

The bill does not name which platforms specifically the bill would apply to but says it would apply to anything that “utilizes addictive, harmful, or deceptive design features, or any other feature that is designed to cause an account holder to have an excessive or compulsive need to use or engage with the social media platform”.

 

Florida is one of several states that has taken action recently to limit teenagers’ exposure to social media. Last year, Utah became the first state in the country to ban people under 18 from using social media without consent from a guardian. The state also prohibits minors from using a social media account from 10.30pm to 6.30am. An industry trade group is currently suing Utah over the law.

 

Other states have required the platforms to undertake measures such as children safety assessments and requiring a change in the algorithms that are served to minors. New York City also declared social media a “public health hazard” on Wednesday.

 

*****************

This is a parenting decision pure and simple. Why is the state stripping parents of their rights to raise their children how they see fit?

 

I don't really think allowing Dave Chapelle to do his comedy act without flack is a fair trade for having your rights and freedoms stripped.

 

I think Chapelle should be able to do his act without needing to worry about getting assaulted again.

 

As for the social media law, firstly I find it amusing that this is a complaint when I remember seeing many up in arms when parents were wanting to be able to decide what their kids learn in school.

 

Secondly, that doesn't sound like a bad law to have on the surface. We've learned over time how harmful social media is, especially to kids. So maybe it's time to not let that be what they do all day. Parents can still make their own choice if they want to, similar to parents who let their 18-year-old have a beer. I don't care what side a law comes from if it'll better the mental health of children.

 

 

Edited January 28 by Master Mind

[Bob Long]

1 minute ago, stawns said:

 

The right courts the poorly educated and exploits the frustration they feel with life and churns that into hate.  Those people would never vote on the left, regardless.  

 

thats where I think you're incorrect. The democrats used to have the blue collar vote, and they've managed to lose it. 

 

https://news.harvard.edu/gazette/story/2023/10/why-so-many-blue-collar-workers-drifted-from-democrats/

 

 

[Elias Pettersson]

14 minutes ago, Cerridwen said:

 

You might want to revisit the FACTS of the Glen Clark situation, there....but I guess it actually would belong in the 'Canadia Politics' thread, no?

I know exactly what happened with Glen Clark. I even know guys in the Hells Angles who told me all the stories. I have a distant family member who is one of the leaders of the Hells Angels. Glen Clark is no angel no matter what you want to read in the papers. Glen Clark grew up in East Van and went to Notre Dame high school. Trust me when I tell you I know everyone he went to school with. 

[Master Mind]

4 minutes ago, bishopshodan said:

 

Totally agree that some on the left have pushed the envelope too far.

 

But I think you should use the word 'some' like you did to allow right wing to carry a title of... open minded.

 I believe there are a lot of left leaning people that agree with you about comedy and the arts in general. 

 

Good catch, I mentioned that it's some in an earlier line but missed it in that one -- fixed.

[bishopshodan]

18 minutes ago, nuckin_futz said:

The allegations in this story are bizarre to say the least. In addition to Vince McMahon being a Special Advisor Vince's Wife Linda was the administrator of the SBA Small business Association in the Trump Administration.

 

Click the tweet if you want to read the rest of the allegations.

Yep,

Brock Lesnar is mentioned around this too...

 

Waiting on Dana White to get a snag...guy is close with this circle. Saw him slap his wife last year, his own mom trashed him too in a book.

And Trump is all about these guys.

Edited January 28 by bishopshodan

[nuckin_futz]

8 minutes ago, Master Mind said:

 

I think Chapelle should be able to do his act without needing to worry about getting assaulted again.

 

As for the social media law, firstly I find it amusing that this is a complaint when I remember seeing many up in arms when parents were wanting to be able to decide what their kids learn in school.

 

Secondly, that doesn't sound like a bad law to have on the surface. We've learned over time how harmful social media is, especially to kids. So maybe it's time to not let that be what they do all day. Parents can still make their own choice if they want to, similar to parents who let their 18-year-old have a beer. I don't care what side a law comes from if it'll better the mental health of children.

 

 

 

Agreed on Chapelle.

 

There is already a mechanism in place for deciding school curriculum. What I found amusing about parents wanting to decide what their kids were taught was that they were up in arms about Critical Race Theory when in fact that was never being taught to school age children.

 

If you want the government dictating how you can live at every turn I can suggest a list of countries you may find more palatable. It doesn't stop with dictating internet usage.

Edited January 28 by nuckin_futz

[stawns]

Just now, Bob Long said:

 

sure. Look at the major universities in the US, e.g. So much attention to issues that have nothing to do with a better education, its all about name, blame, and shame. 

 

What have the progressives in the US done for wages? rent levels? new industries? I don't see it. I don't see a plan at all from the progressives in the US for basic kitchen table issues.

 

In Canada, we're a bit luckier. Our left does tend to think more about these things and we haven't got into the full on divide the US has, although Poilievre is trying. 

 

I dunno, the issues they stand up for are human rights, no?  The function of universities have always been more about what they learn in class and id say that university campuses were a major catalyst to change in the 50's, 60's and 70's.  

 

Universities reflect the values of the generations coming up, so it shouldn't be a surprise that they have taken up the mantle of lgbtq+ rights and those of other marginalized communities.  We don't have to like it, but it's certainly nothing new, imo.  And, imo, theres no good without bad and things like that are just the flip side of the coin for all the great things that are being done to protect the rights of marginalized communities.  I'll take that trade any day.

 

I'd say Biden has done more than anyone else don't you think?  It'd have been far more had the right not been so petty about letting him have any kind of win.  The American Rescue Plan has been on of the most successful government account s since lbj probably.  It's done an awful lot of the average American.......in the context of previous administrations anyway, which isn't saying much.

 

And I agree, we tend to get wrapped up in the American perspective and forget it doesn't necessarily translate well to Canada, but we're getting there.  Both the school board and city council in my town had to bar the public from meetings because of the disruptive, often violent element of society not allowing these institutions to function properly.

[Master Mind]

12 minutes ago, stawns said:

 

They don't like the libertarian flares he sends up once in awhile I think.  He's anti government, but the core of his being is far to the left, no question.

 

I find it so ironic that so many on the right hold him up as some kind of hero, when, really, he's hard left

 

 

Yes, and that's what makes it interesting. Carlin makes it very clear that context is crucial in discussion.

 

Therefore many on the right align with his thinking when some on the left seek to shutdown certain discussion regardless of context.

[Bob Long]

1 minute ago, stawns said:

 

I dunno, the issues they stand up for are human rights, no?  The function of universities have always been more about what they learn in class and id say that university campuses were a major catalyst to change in the 50's, 60's and 70's.  

 

Universities reflect the values of the generations coming up, so it shouldn't be a surprise that they have taken up the mantle of lgbtq+ rights and those of other marginalized communities.  We don't have to like it, but it's certainly nothing new, imo.  And, imo, theres no good without bad and things like that are just the flip side of the coin for all the great things that are being done to protect the rights of marginalized communities.  I'll take that trade any day.

 

but you can't gloss over bad behaviour by administration officials or hiring unqualified people, because they "stand up" for something. 

 

1 minute ago, stawns said:

I'd say Biden has done more than anyone else don't you think?  It'd have been far more had the right not been so petty about letting him have any kind of win.  The American Rescue Plan has been on of the most successful government account s since lbj probably.  It's done an awful lot of the average American.......in the context of previous administrations anyway, which isn't saying much.

 

And I agree, we tend to get wrapped up in the American perspective and forget it doesn't necessarily translate well to Canada, but we're getting there.  Both the school board and city council in my town had to bar the public from meetings because of the disruptive, often violent element of society not allowing these institutions to function properly.

 

So then explain how the left lost blue collar votes, if not by losing a focus on the things that matter to them?

 

[stawns]

9 minutes ago, Master Mind said:

 

I think Chapelle should be able to do his act without needing to worry about getting assaulted again.

 

As for the social media law, firstly I find it amusing that this is a complaint when I remember seeing many up in arms when parents were wanting to be able to decide what their kids learn in school.

 

Secondly, that doesn't sound like a bad law to have on the surface. We've learned over time how harmful social media is, especially to kids. So maybe it's time to not let that be what they do all day. Parents can still make their own choice if they want to, similar to parents who let their 18-year-old have a beer. I don't care what side a law comes from if it'll better the mental health of children.

 

 

 

Nothing is stopping her m from doing it.  If he's going to perform material.thay offends people, there's going to be blowback to that.  It's certainly nothing new, ask Lenny Bruce.

 

I think the problem that were seeing with comedy is that Chappelle, Maher etc are still relying on old tropes to get laughs and that simply just does not play well with the younger generation and it's easier to say your being "cancelled" than it is to admit that young people just don't find that funny anymore.

 

Ultimately, were in the biggest cultural shift since the 60's and it's going to be a bumpy process.

 

I, for one, am thrilled that the young people are wanting to re-make the world to fit their generation.  It's about time.

[Master Mind]

3 minutes ago, nuckin_futz said:

 

Agreed on Chapelle.

 

There is already a mechanism in place for deciding school curriculum. What I found amusing about parents wanting to decide what their kids were taught was that they were up in arms about Critical Race Theory when in fact that was never being taught to school age children.

 

If you want the government dictating how you can live at every turn I can suggest a list of countries you may find more palatable. It doesn't stop with dictating internet usage.

 

I didn't say I want the government dictating how to live at every turn. Don't waste my time with ridiculous exaggerations.

[stawns]

5 minutes ago, Master Mind said:

 

Yes, and that's what makes it interesting. Carlin makes it very clear that context is crucial in discussion.

 

Therefore many on the right align with his thinking when some on the left seek to shutdown certain discussion regardless of context.

 

 

I dunno, there is no "context" to human rights, imo.  I think if Carlin were still alive, he was smart enough to understand his viewpoint and comedy would have to progress.  He was a radical, he would t be an "old man yells at cloud" knd of guy in this day and age I don't think.  He'd be right there with the young generation telling the bigots to shut the fuck up.

Edited January 28 by stawns

[nuckin_futz]

Just now, Master Mind said:

 

I didn't say I want the government dictating how to live at every turn. Don't waste my time with ridiculous exaggerations.

 

Sure sounds like it when you're perfectly fine with such over reaching proposals.

[Master Mind]

1 minute ago, stawns said:

 

Nothing is stopping her m from doing it.  If he's going to perform material.thay offends people, there's going to be blowback to that.  It's certainly nothing new, ask Lenny Bruce.

 

I think the problem that were seeing with comedy is that Chappelle, Maher etc are still relying on old tropes to get laughs and that simply just does not play well with the younger generation and it's easier to say your being "cancelled" than it is to admit that young people just don't find that funny anymore.

 

Ultimately, were in the biggest cultural shift since the 60's and it's going to be a bumpy process.

 

I, for one, am thrilled that the young people are wanting to re-make the world to fit their generation.  It's about time.

 

If they simply don't find it funny, then they can't simply not go to the show. No need to go and ruin it for everyone or put the entertainer at risk.

 

What happened to live and let live? This is the part some of the left is forgetting.

[Master Mind]

Just now, nuckin_futz said:

 

Sure sounds like it when you're perfectly fine with such over reaching proposals.

 

Well you're wrong.

 

If you want to engage with an actual conversation, start with asking, rather than assuming the worst.

[stawns]

I should reiterate, these are my perspectives and don't want anyone to think I don't accept yours or think I'm right and your wrong 

[nuckin_futz]

Just now, Master Mind said:

 

Well you're wrong.

 

If you want to engage with an actual conversation, start with asking, rather than assuming the worst.

 

That was not assuming the worst. It was in the same vein as what you had suggested.

 

Apologies for wasting your valuable time.