Malibu Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 2 hours ago, the destroyer of worlds said: And the majority of "illegals" entered legally. Visa overstays and such. Improving the bureaucratic side of things will help things. This is a decades long problem (heard that before) and razor wire at the border isn't going to solve it. Nice picture so the grifters in right wing media grift land can get the morons all riled up. Not according to this CNN report, and it's from 2017 before the caravans even started. https://edition.cnn.com/factsfirst/politics/factcheck_6540d695-bb50-4d44-90e9-f4587c146cba Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sabrefan1 Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 6 hours ago, Malibu said: Not according to this CNN report, and it's from 2017 before the caravans even started. https://edition.cnn.com/factsfirst/politics/factcheck_6540d695-bb50-4d44-90e9-f4587c146cba You're going to want to expand and explain that CNN page or it can be piecemealed out of context to shut your argument down. At first blush, the evidence section seems to contradict itself. It's oddly written. Quote Biden was more correct with his second claim, about the means by which undocumented people are arriving in the US. A 2019 study by the Center for Migration Studies of New York, based on 2017 data, found that, for the seventh straight year, more newly undocumented people overstayed visas than crossed a border illegally; it was 62% overstays and 38% illegal crossings, according to the study. Then it goes on to say this: Quote Michelle Mittelstadt, director of communications for the Migration Policy Institute think tank, said that while recent new additions to the undocumented population are more likely to have overstayed a visa rather than illegally crossed a border, that wasn't the case in the past. Considering that 60% of the total undocumented population has been in the country for a decade or more, she said, "we believe a slight majority crossed a border illegally to get here." Donald Kerwin, executive director of the Center for Migration Studies of New York, also said that, among the total undocumented population, people who crossed illegally still outnumber people who overstayed their visa. Confusing. But unless I'm mistaken, the gist is, these days, visa overstays outnumber border crossings. Long term, the border crossings are higher. What I'd like to know is how many of these visas were emergency visas given to border crossers? Emergency visas can be given to border crossers for use until they see a judge. Plenty of those people never bother to go to their hearings and just stay in the US. So technically they are people who overstayed their visas, but in reality are just illegal border crossers. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malibu Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 (edited) 2 hours ago, Sabrefan1 said: You're going to want to expand and explain that CNN page or it can be piecemealed out of context to shut your argument down. At first blush, the evidence section seems to contradict itself. It's oddly written. Then it goes on to say this: Confusing. But unless I'm mistaken, the gist is, these days, visa overstays outnumber border crossings. Long term, the border crossings are higher. What I'd like to know is how many of these visas were emergency visas given to border crossers? Emergency visas can be given to border crossers for use until they see a judge. Plenty of those people never bother to go to their hearings and just stay in the US. So technically they are people who overstayed their visas, but in reality are just illegal border crossers. I liked the article specifically because it is so confusing, just like pinning down what's going on with visa overstays. Is there a problem with illegal immigration in your country or not? If there is, are those problem immigrants extended visa people or migrants? That is the bottom line. My own belief is that the big majority of extended visas eventually leave on their own and are not near the issue the migrants are. Edited February 5 by Malibu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewbieCanuckFan Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 I personally think the Dems only put up that border bill knowing the GOP would reject it. Smart politics imho. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Lock Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 Just now, NewbieCanuckFan said: I personally think the Dems only put up that border bill knowing the GOP would reject it. Smart politics imho. I actually doubt the democrats were thinking that way and that they genuinely wanted to pass the bill. Simply put: how do you logically think of the illogical moves that this MAGA contingent of the republicans end up doing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RupertKBD Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 35 minutes ago, NewbieCanuckFan said: I personally think the Dems only put up that border bill knowing the GOP would reject it. Smart politics imho. I dunno....the main negotiator was James Lankford, a Republican from Oklahoma. In this exceedingly rare case, I believe this was a bipartisan effort. Both sides (plus Independent, Kristen Sinema) realize that there is an actual problem that needs addressing and both sides gave something up to make the bill happen. It's the MAGA portion of the Republican party, who are beholden to Donald Trump that want to sink the bill. Even Cocaine Mitch is onboard. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Lock Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 5 minutes ago, RupertKBD said: I dunno....the main negotiator was James Lankford, a Republican from Oklahoma. In this exceedingly rare case, I believe this was a bipartisan effort. Both sides (plus Independent, Kristen Sinema) realize that there is an actual problem that needs addressing and both sides gave something up to make the bill happen. It's the MAGA portion of the Republican party, who are beholden to Donald Trump that want to sink the bill. Even Cocaine Mitch is onboard. More specifically even, it's the MAGA House representatives who are safe in their gerrymandered districts who are going against the bill. The senate appears to be more sensible which makes sense as they have an entire state that votes for them including city-dwellers who are less red then the rural areas. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Arrogant Worms Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 Trump Rails Against ‘Horrendous,’ ‘Death Wish’ of a Border Bill: ‘Only a Fool, Or a Radical Left Democrat’ Would Vote for It https://www.mediaite.com/news/trump-rails-against-horrendous-death-wish-of-a-border-bill-only-a-fool-or-a-radical-left-democrat-would-vote-for-it/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Lock Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 (edited) 5 minutes ago, The Arrogant Worms said: Trump Rails Against ‘Horrendous,’ ‘Death Wish’ of a Border Bill: ‘Only a Fool, Or a Radical Left Democrat’ Would Vote for It https://www.mediaite.com/news/trump-rails-against-horrendous-death-wish-of-a-border-bill-only-a-fool-or-a-radical-left-democrat-would-vote-for-it/ Lol well I guess the right wing part of the senate and the part of the right wing in the house for the bill are now "radical left democrats". Edit: Thinking about it actually, if this bill gets passed, it'll be interesting to see what kind of fear-mongering Trump ends up resorting to since he wouldn't have a border to fear-monger on as much. Edited February 5 by The Lock 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kootenay Gold Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 28 minutes ago, The Lock said: Lol well I guess the right wing part of the senate and the part of the right wing in the house for the bill are now "radical left democrats". Edit: Thinking about it actually, if this bill gets passed, it'll be interesting to see what kind of fear-mongering Trump ends up resorting to since he wouldn't have a border to fear-monger on as much. That pathetic excuse of a human being would find something even if he had to create it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Heffy Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 8 minutes ago, Kootenay Gold said: That pathetic excuse of a human being would find something even if he had to create it. Why are we even considering treating Trump as anything other than the subhuman vermin that he is?. You're being far to generous to that worthless piece of shit. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duodenum Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 13 hours ago, Sabrefan1 said: You're asking the wrong person. I'm voting for Jill Stein for a 3rd time. I practice what I preach, and I preach more parties and more choices. I've had no party affiliation for the entire 32 years that I've been eligible to vote. As for Trump, my guess is people like him because he's a populist who says what many want to hear. Grover Cleveland is the only US president who was able to win a second non-consecutive term in office. He was both the 22nd & 24th president. Benjamin Harris (#23) wasn't a bad president, he just became unpopular because of high inflation, mostly on imported items, coupled with high government spending. High inflation and high spending may also be a couple of Biden's undoings in this election. Although Harris' deficits and spending were intentional and Biden's was partially due to the circumstances of his presidency. Both Trump and Biden "printed" large amounts of money during their terms and spent huge amounts thanks to the COVID situation. Thought you'd might have some insight as you toe the in-between line. I know you aren't a Trumper. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PistolPete13 Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 2 hours ago, The Lock said: Lol well I guess the right wing part of the senate and the part of the right wing in the house for the bill are now "radical left democrats". Edit: Thinking about it actually, if this bill gets passed, it'll be interesting to see what kind of fear-mongering Trump ends up resorting to since he wouldn't have a border to fear-monger on as much. He can dredge up the Biden crime family/Hunterz laptop from his greatest hits collection. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewbieCanuckFan Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 1 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Lock Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 20 minutes ago, PistolPete13 said: He can dredge up the Biden crime family/Hunterz laptop from his greatest hits collection. Good. Let him be a broken record. Hunter's laptop sure helped him in 2020 where he... erm... "won?"... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post The Arrogant Worms Posted February 5 Popular Post Share Posted February 5 8 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Lock Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 45 minutes ago, The Arrogant Worms said: That's amazing. The hate and pettiness from the right... and it leads to them suddenly caring about the environment. So basically we need to bring together everyone the right hates and make them create carbon emissions. Make it an issue propagandized into the brains of the right. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Arrogant Worms Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 Border Patrol Union That Endorsed Trump Twice Comes Out in Favor of Bill He Staunchly Opposes https://www.mediaite.com/politics/border-patrol-union-that-endorsed-trump-comes-out-in-favor-of-bill-he-staunchly-opposes/ 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Arrogant Worms Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 Nikki Haley Torches ‘Irresponsible’ Republicans For Sinking Border Bill to Help Trump: ‘You Don’t Sacrifice National Security’ https://www.mediaite.com/tv/nikki-haley-torches-irresponsible-republicans-for-sinking-border-bill-to-help-trump-you-dont-sacrifice-national-security/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RupertKBD Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 5 hours ago, The Lock said: Lol well I guess the right wing part of the senate and the part of the right wing in the house for the bill are now "radical left democrats". Edit: Thinking about it actually, if this bill gets passed, it'll be interesting to see what kind of fear-mongering Trump ends up resorting to since he wouldn't have a border to fear-monger on as much. My guess is that there are too many cowards in both Houses and they will end up killing the bill. Biden should start running on this right now. "Republicans don't think the border crisis is a crisis", etc, etc.... 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sabrefan1 Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 2 hours ago, Duodenum said: Thought you'd might have some insight as you toe the in-between line. I know you aren't a Trumper. Sure. I can take an educated guess at your questions... 19 hours ago, Duodenum said: Can anyone help with explaining why they would vote for Trump, if they were eligible? Answered this one in my earlier reply: Quote As for Trump, my guess is people like him because he's a populist who says what many want to hear. Quote More importantly, what bills do you think the republicans will bring forward to improve American lives? That's the catch right there. If Trump is elected, who will control the Republican party in the next Congress? The ultra-conservatives or the conservative moderates. If it's the ultra-conservatives, they're going to try and drastically change the country to their liking which will likely cause chaos. If it's the conservative moderates, they will just continue where they left off. Quote What can the average american expect to improve under Trump? The border will be locked up and hopefully he puts up a better wall than he did the last time. His previous attempt at a wall could easily be defeated with an angle grinder. If he ramps up drilling and resource extraction again, the environment may take a hit, but fuel will get cheaper. Low fuel costs will also help fight inflation which people will feel in their every day expenses. Along with millions of other citizens, I'm not a fan of funding foreign wars, so Trump will likely put an end to endless Ukraine funding and tell Europe to start picking up the bill on that. As for Israel, I have no idea what he will do there. After those 3 things, he may follow through this time on his threat of nuking a hurricane or launching missile attacks on drug cartels located in sovereign south of the border countries. I dunno. Don't forget, a presidents second term only basically lasts 2.5-3 years in practice. The remaining time is spent by the parties trying to get their next guy in. Add that to the few months Trump will need to get his new administration going again and he only has about 2-2.5 years of real governing that he can use to accomplish anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Lock Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 Just now, RupertKBD said: My guess is that there are too many cowards in both Houses and they will end up killing the bill. Biden should start running on this right now. "Republicans don't think the border crisis is a crisis", etc, etc.... I mean, there's so much the democrats could run on. The problem is they give up too many good opportunities to win over the rural populations that are typically more right leaning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Arrogant Worms Posted February 6 Share Posted February 6 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Satchmo Posted February 6 Share Posted February 6 21 hours ago, Malibu said: Well yeah, they close the border to illegals after 5000 have crossed? And that's just the ones they count. Laughable. I just read this NYT article and was reminded of your post. It's a paywalled article so I'll insert the first few paragraphs. No, Border Deal Won’t ‘Allow’ 5,000 Unauthorized Immigrants a Day Republican critics have quickly twisted one element of a bipartisan compromise bill unveiled on Sunday to misleadingly suggest that it permits 5,000 migrants to enter the country illegally every day. The legislation, which links additional funding in military aid for Ukraine with immigration policy, would more aggressively tamp down on illegal crossings at the U.S. border with Mexico. The claim has become a popular talking point, reflecting broader pushback by Republicans who have seized on the border security provisions in the $118.3 billion bill and derided them as too lax. But the bill does not, in fact, authorize immigrants to cross the border illegally. Instead, among other provisions, it would give officials the authority to summarily remove migrants, with little recourse, after a certain number cross: an average of 5,000 encounters per day for a week, or 8,500 in a single day. The legislation seeks to make it harder for people to claim asylum and expedite that process; expand federal detention capacity; and provide funding for other border investments, including hiring asylum officers and border security agents, among other things. It does not say that 5,000 immigrants are allowed to illegally enter per day. Instead, the bill uses that number to help determine when a new, stringent emergency authority can take effect to more easily expel migrants, regardless of whether they intend to seek asylum. https://www.nytimes.com/2024/02/05/us/politics/border-deal-immigration.html 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CBH1926 Posted February 6 Share Posted February 6 Ann Coulter has a suggestion on how Trump can help the U.S https://www.newsweek.com/ann-coulter-shares-dark-suggestion-how-donald-trump-can-help-us-1866716 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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