Petey O Posted July 14 Share Posted July 14 (edited) 17 minutes ago, DSVII said: 1. Liberalism Dugin defines as the last ideology standing vs Communism and Fascism at the end of the 20th century. 2. There is too much to unpack on this other than this goes against every ideal and wish that our forefathers have died for in the last two hundred years to achieve. 'Love' can take many forms, including abuse. And for someone who rejects Eurasianism, this viewpoint is not far from the relationship of the serfs and Tsars of old. 3. You will find just as many, if not more vices in authoritarian regimes. Domestic Violence, Rampant Alcoholism, Suicides, Corruption are the norm in authoritarian regimes. Indeed if I am to speak from Russia's standpoint. Corruption has been weaponized by the state as a political tool for Putin to play favorites. 4. The limitations and dangers of nationalism have been proven already by WWI and WWII. And you are intentionally ignoring the heaps of progress we've made since the enlightenment. Human nature cannot be changed no, but we are always striving to be better. You are not a duginist, as you claim, I don't buy it. It is perfectly within the realm of a believer in his theories to trash him while still endorsing his views, the firehouse of inconsistency and contradiction that makes others lose faith in debate is part of the foundations of Geopolitics playbook. No you don't buy his Eurasian concept, but you pretty much bought everything else. 1: Attached an excerpt from Dugin's book "The Fourth Political Theory". He considers liberalism the first theory. "Last standing", sure, but it's strange that we're discussing the three previous theories of Duginism and referring to liberalism as "the last", but whatever. Irrelevant at this point. 2: It's funny how you're still trying to paint me as a Duginist when I've not only outright rejected his ideology, but have explained why. Stop trying to force this. Dugin had zero, and I mean *zero* influence on me. Jonathan Bowden, Alain De Benoist, and Guillaume Faye are more my influences politically and philosophically. 3: There's a difference between totalitarianism and authoritarianism, and you'll notice those things much more frequently in totalitarianism vs authoritarianism. 4: This is a take and a half. If you think the Allies weren't as nationalistic at least in spirit as the Axis powers were in WW2 (the people certainly were) and WW1 (again, across the board), you're delusional. Nationalism put to death nationalism. Without nationalism, nationalism wins. Nationalism isn't this inherently bad thing that leads to chaos and destruction. Look at the chaos and destruction liberal democracy has waged in the middle east and around the world. "B-but, nationalism bad!". Edited July 14 by Petey O Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slegr Posted July 14 Share Posted July 14 What a weird thing - so close to ending Trump’s life - that would have been such a different world. And now he is even more like a God to Republicans. I’m pretty sure there will be no beating him this fall. Such a crazy time in the USA. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Satchmo Posted July 14 Share Posted July 14 2 minutes ago, Petey O said: 1: Attached an excerpt from Dugin's book "The Fourth Political Theory". He considers liberalism the first theory. "Last standing", sure, but it's strange that we're discussing the three previous theories of Duginism and referring to liberalism as "the last", but whatever. Irrelevant at this point. 2: It's funny how you're still trying to paint me as a Duginist when I've not only outright rejected his ideology, but have explained why. Stop trying to force this. Dugin had zero, and I mean *zero* influence on me. Jonathan Bowden, Alain De Benoist, and Guillaume Faye are more my influences politically and philosophically. 3: There's a difference between totalitarianism and authoritarianism, and you'll notice those things much more frequently in totalitarianism vs authoritarianism. 4: This is a take and a half. If you think the Allies weren't as nationalistic at least in spirit as the Axis powers were in WW2 (the people certainly were) and WW1 (again, across the board), you're delusional. Nationalism put to death nationalism. Without nationalism, nationalism wins. Nationalism isn't this inherently bad thing that leads to chaos and destruction. Look at the chaos and destruction liberal democracy has waged in the middle east and around the world. "B-but, nationalism bad!". Try this thread: https://www.canucksfanforum.com/topic/545-economic-modelssystems-for-society-todaytomorrow/?do=getNewComment It's more appropriate for your message than a US politics thread, 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghostsof1915 Posted July 14 Share Posted July 14 1 minute ago, Slegr said: What a weird thing - so close to ending Trump’s life - that would have been such a different world. And now he is even more like a God to Republicans. I’m pretty sure there will be no beating him this fall. Such a crazy time in the USA. Hopefully history repeats. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Petey O Posted July 14 Share Posted July 14 1 minute ago, Satchmo said: Try this thread: https://www.canucksfanforum.com/topic/545-economic-modelssystems-for-society-todaytomorrow/?do=getNewComment It's more appropriate for your message than a US politics thread, Agreed. This conversation has run its course. Let's get back to the topic at hand: Why did Biden's DHS deny Trump additional secret service protections? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghostsof1915 Posted July 14 Share Posted July 14 Of course the real question is. How will the NRA spin this one? 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barnstorm Posted July 14 Share Posted July 14 24 minutes ago, Warhippy said: Hey, can we transpose this with all the times Trump said identical things? Fill your boots. I’m sure someone will care. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post DSVII Posted July 14 Popular Post Share Posted July 14 (edited) 17 minutes ago, Petey O said: 2: It's funny how you're still trying to paint me as a Duginist when I've not only outright rejected his ideology, but have explained why. Stop trying to force this. Dugin had zero, and I mean *zero* influence on me. Jonathan Bowden, Alain De Benoist, and Guillaume Faye are more my influences politically and philosophically. So in addition to Dugin's worldview on Liberalism, you prescribe to Bowden - An Alt right nationalist (ah ok, i see who you got Liberalism is a 'moral syphilis' from) who exploits the frustrations of vulnerable young men Alain De Benoist - A far right French theorist who is against the declaration of the rights of man, egalitarianism and representative democracy (not to mention ironically Christianity and Neoliberalism) Guillaume Faye - Same member of the French New Right Party who coined the term 'anti-values' (humanitarianism, individualism, xenophilia, homophilia) as weakening a civilization. That's like the modern day Avengers of Fascism. I don't throw that word out lightly but those three combined with Dugin have those ingredients. Again, your outlook for humanity is appealing to it's most basest emotions and instincts and a cynicism towards every high ideal we've had since the Enlightenment. Take after Voltaire, and I hope you can get out of this hell hole for your sake and everyone else's “Anyone who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. Quote 4: This is a take and a half. If you think the Allies weren't as nationalistic at least in spirit as the Axis powers were in WW2 (the people certainly were) and WW1 (again, across the board), you're delusional. Nationalism put to death nationalism. Without nationalism, nationalism wins. Nationalism isn't this inherently bad thing that leads to chaos and destruction. Look at the chaos and destruction liberal democracy has waged in the middle east and around the world. "B-but, nationalism bad!". You are confusing liberal democracy with capitalism, an economic system. And also Cold War Realism, which was the driving geo-political motivation behind those wars. Quote Nationalism put to death nationalism. Without nationalism, nationalism wins. That really has a 1984 ring to it. We've never been at war with Eastasia. Edit: Won't post any further replies after this, back to US politics. Edited July 14 by DSVII 1 2 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junkyard Dog Posted July 14 Share Posted July 14 5 minutes ago, Slegr said: What a weird thing - so close to ending Trump’s life - that would have been such a different world. And now he is even more like a God to Republicans. I’m pretty sure there will be no beating him this fall. Such a crazy time in the USA. Yeah, it would have been a lot more crazier and scary if it did happen. He's got tens of millions of immensely loyal supporters and this probably would have been a call to arms. I don't know how well US could deal with that internally, especially with the other superpowers vying for supremacy on the world stage. Even smaller opposing nations could stir the pot and add fuel to that fire. It would be a perfect storm for nefarious nations/factions to take advantage. It wouldn't just be just an internal problem at that point. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Petey O Posted July 14 Share Posted July 14 3 minutes ago, DSVII said: So in addition to Dugin's worldview on Liberalism, you prescribe to Bowden - An Alt right nationalist (ah ok, i see who you got Liberalism is a 'moral syphilis' from) who exploits the frustrations of vulnerable young men Alain De Benoist - A far right French theorist who is against the declaration of the rights of man, egalitarianism and representative democracy (not to mention ironically Christianity and Neoliberalism) Guillaume Faye - Same member of the French New Right Party who coined the term 'anti-values' (humanitarianism, individualism, xenophilia, homophilia) as weakening a civilization. That's like the Avengers of Neo-Nazism and Fascism. I don't throw that word out lighlty, and have actually never used that term before online until now but those three combined with Dugin have those ingredients. Again, your outlook for humanity is appealing to it's most basest emotions and instincts and a cynicism towards every high ideal we've had since the Enlightenment. Take after Voltaire, and I hope you can get out of this hell hole for your sake and everyone else's “Anyone who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. You are confusing liberal democracy with capitalism, an economic system. And also Cold War Realism, which was the driving geo-political motivation behind those wars. That really has a 1984 ring to it. We've never been at war with Eastasia. Rather than continue to bog down this thread with a long response, let's agree to disagree after this: You can be influenced by political figures without subscribing to literally everything they preach and stand for. Just like I'm sure many of you are influenced by Barack Obama, you probably don't support his use of drone strikes against civilians in the Middle East, or the countless lies he told during his presidency; at least I hope not. Also, liberal democracy and capitalism are two sides of the same coin and contribute to the formation of similar polities: rootless, atomized, soulless, consumerist international economic hubs that treat people as walking economic units. PS: Your psychoanalysis will not work on me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smashian Kassian Posted July 14 Share Posted July 14 (edited) "..this is the logical conclusion of your lies" Good point Edited July 14 by Smashian Kassian 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CBH1926 Posted July 14 Share Posted July 14 48 minutes ago, Petey O said: Democrats blocked it. I give Federalist as much credibility as I give to Izvestia. 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghostsof1915 Posted July 14 Share Posted July 14 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Satchmo Posted July 14 Popular Post Share Posted July 14 2 minutes ago, Smashian Kassian said: "..this is the logical conclusion of your lies" Nailed it. 1) Biden has never said Trump was Hitler (that was Heffy) 2) Democracy - as we know it - could very well be on the line. See Election denial, Jan 6, Project 2025 3) That's not insane shit nor were they lies (especially the one that was never said) 4) The conclusion ComicDaveSmith comes to is not logical Nailed it. 2 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DSVII Posted July 14 Share Posted July 14 31 minutes ago, Slegr said: What a weird thing - so close to ending Trump’s life - that would have been such a different world. And now he is even more like a God to Republicans. I’m pretty sure there will be no beating him this fall. Such a crazy time in the USA. That would have been the 9/11 moment of the 2020s. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
6of1_halfdozenofother Posted July 14 Share Posted July 14 1 hour ago, Ghostsof1915 said: But in 1914 everyone was waving the flag and being all patriotic. Then a generation got fed into the meat grinder. That kind of caused chaos too. Just wanted to quickly point out: patriotism and nationalism come from the same tree, but are different branches. Patriotism in the 1914 context and even up to the modern day was loyalty to King and Country (modern day would be "leader" and Country) Nationalism in the '30s/'40s and even up to the modern day is "our nation is the best/deserves the best/we're never wrong". It's a very subtle difference, but it's there. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smashian Kassian Posted July 14 Share Posted July 14 5 minutes ago, Satchmo said: 1) Biden has never said Trump was Hitler (that was Heffy) 2) Democracy - as we know it - could very well be on the line. See Election denial, Jan 6, Project 2025 3) That's not insane shit nor were they lies (especially the one that was never said) 4) The conclusion ComicDaveSmith comes to is not logical Nailed it. Where did he mention Biden? The people who spend so much time comparing Trump to Hitler, calling him a soon to be dictator, a fascist, a Nazi, saying democracy is over if he loses, exc exc are now today praising that he's okay & denouncing the attack. No one would wish for Hitler/a Fascist dictators survival. If your perspective is that democracy will end with Trump, and that he is a fascist dictator, then you should be upset the shooter missed. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smashian Kassian Posted July 14 Share Posted July 14 (edited) 9 minutes ago, DSVII said: That would have been the 9/11 moment of the 2020s. Might already be tbh Edited July 14 by Smashian Kassian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Satchmo Posted July 14 Share Posted July 14 1 minute ago, Smashian Kassian said: Where did he mention Biden? The people who spend so much time comparing Trump to Hitler, calling him a soon to be dictator, a fascist, a Nazi, saying democracy is over if he loses, exc exc are now today praising that he's okay & denouncing the attack. No one would wish for Hitler/a Fascist dictators survival. If your perspective is that democracy will end with Trump, and that he is a fascist dictator, then you should be upset the shooter missed. Who is the 'you' in his tweet: How the fuck can you say he’s literally Hitler Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warhippy Posted July 14 Share Posted July 14 4 minutes ago, Smashian Kassian said: Maybe already be tbh except this time, he really was there 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pears Posted July 14 Share Posted July 14 5 minutes ago, Smashian Kassian said: Where did he mention Biden? The people who spend so much time comparing Trump to Hitler, calling him a soon to be dictator, a fascist, a Nazi, saying democracy is over if he loses, exc exc are now today praising that he's okay & denouncing the attack. No one would wish for Hitler/a Fascist dictators survival. If your perspective is that democracy will end with Trump, and that he is a fascist dictator, then you should be upset the shooter missed. It also breaks my brain how any self respecting woman could even consider supporting or voting for someone who will send them back to the 1930's with what he plans on doing to their rights. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kilgore Posted July 14 Share Posted July 14 My gawd if youre going to try and shoot a Fascist at least hit the net. With Biden's cognitive decline and now this? Democrats don't stand a chance in November. Not with how their media works. CNN and other more liberal news will think they have to tone down their criticism of Trump, and Fox and other RW media will ramp up the conspiracies, that it was a hit job by Biden because that was the only way to win. or something like that. Trump will now be the martyr he was trying to convince the fence sitters he was all along. And get out the vote for some who may not have been motivated before. what a shit show. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warhippy Posted July 14 Share Posted July 14 1 minute ago, Pears said: It also breaks my brain how any self respecting woman could even consider supporting or voting for someone who will send them back to the 1930's with what he plans on doing to their rights. Kind of leaning towards embracing a tougher more strict border policy knowing what's coming to America again 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smashian Kassian Posted July 14 Share Posted July 14 5 minutes ago, Satchmo said: Who is the 'you' in his tweet: How the fuck can you say he’s literally Hitler Anyone who has been doing that, guessing he means the corporate press & TDS type democrats. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Satchmo Posted July 14 Share Posted July 14 1 minute ago, Smashian Kassian said: Anyone who has been doing that, guessing he means the corporate press & TDS type democrats. That tweet is making less and less sense then. I expect you will disagree. Let's move on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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