stawns Posted July 14 Share Posted July 14 1 minute ago, Sabrefan1 said: Whoops. My bad. I've been in and out of the thread since yesterday. too much vitriol. I'll delete it. Please accept my apologies. I wasn't harassing you gor posting it at all, just giving my .02 There is zero proof that this kid had any ill, politically, towards Trump and the Dems need to change that narrative the repugs are trying to frame it as 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeNiro Posted July 14 Share Posted July 14 5 minutes ago, Drakrami said: lol if there is a conspiracy like you are drumming up, they could have done a way better job. Get a better shooter for one. One who doesn't miss from 150 meters. And all your talk about "elite level security forces" making zero mistakes surely worked very well in Japan, Slovia, and Brazil. Sorry facts don't lie. Can’t compare those countries. None of them have the level of threat the US has. Simply look at the number of people with guns in that country. If highly trained security forces can make mistakes then surely a would be assassin could? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sabrefan1 Posted July 14 Share Posted July 14 Just now, stawns said: I wasn't harassing you gor posting it at all, just giving my .02 There is zero proof that this kid had any ill, politically, towards Trump and the Dems need to change that narrative the repugs are trying to frame it as I knew you weren't bothering me. I appreciate people telling me when I repost something. I apologize because I have wasted other people's time when I accidentally do that. So thanks for letting me know that I goofed up. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghostsof1915 Posted July 14 Share Posted July 14 Might be a good idea to start having drones patrolling the area. That way if you spot some nutjob climbing onto a roof. You can get security/police/Secret Service to respond quicker. 1 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sabrefan1 Posted July 14 Share Posted July 14 Just now, Ghostsof1915 said: Might be a good idea to start having drones patrolling the area. That way if you spot some nutjob climbing onto a roof. You can get security/police/Secret Service to respond quicker. Great idea actually. Problem is that they'd have to figure out a way to differentiate their drones from an imposter drone. If they solve that problem, that could be a good idea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeNiro Posted July 14 Share Posted July 14 5 minutes ago, stawns said: Again, the secret service usually covers the close in anc distance tiers and local law enforcement covers the middle tier, which is where the shooter was. People were allegedly telling local police there was a guy with a gun on the roof and they didn't do anything. Imo, this was a mistake of poorly trained local law enforcement Patsies. The higher level officials would be the ones planning exactly where local law would be posted. If someone was able to walk in there and climb a building with a rifle that’s on poor planning which is at the top. Sorry but I’m not buying the Barney Fife narrative. Too convenient. And somehow this young “psychopath” knew exactly where there was weak security? Or are we to assume he could have freely climbed any building he wanted? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-dlc- Posted July 14 Share Posted July 14 33 minutes ago, stawns said: I don't disagree, but I think if it really was an assassination attempt (which I don't think it was) the sniper would have gotten off at least two more head shots after the initial one. After the graze, Trump just stood there for at least 4-5 seconds. More shots WERE fired....they just missed. He wasn't a good aim, clearly. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted July 14 Share Posted July 14 2 minutes ago, DeNiro said: Can’t compare those countries. None of them have the level of threat the US has. Simply look at the number of people with guns in that country. If highly trained security forces can make mistakes then surely a would be assassin could? Does this shooter profile as an actual “hired” assassin though? He missed from really close. IMO he was some social outcast kid. What motivated him to do this is still in question, no? But it’s highly unlikely he was part of anything greater than just himself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stawns Posted July 14 Share Posted July 14 Just now, DeNiro said: Patsies. The higher level officials would be the ones planning exactly where local law would be posted. If someone was able to walk in there and climb a building with a rifle that’s on poor planning which is at the top. Sorry but I’m not buying the Barney Fife narrative. Too convenient. And somehow this young “psychopath” knew exactly where there was weak security? Or are we to assume he could have freely climbed any building he wanted? No, I don't think he knew, I think that was the area he could go without going through a metal detector or weapons check 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drakrami Posted July 14 Share Posted July 14 (edited) 7 minutes ago, DeNiro said: Can’t compare those countries. None of them have the level of threat the US has. Simply look at the number of people with guns in that country. If highly trained security forces can make mistakes then surely a would be assassin could? Not to mention the shooter was 20 year old kid who just got out of high school. His classmates were interviewed and said he was bullied harshly throughout highschool. Doesn't sound like a recruit of some grand conspiracy scheme from Jason Bourne to me? The kid kept long ass hair to his shoulders during the shooting. To be honest, it might be the reason he missed, his hair got in the way. Sounds very professional, very conspiracy-like. Edited July 14 by Drakrami 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stawns Posted July 14 Share Posted July 14 Just now, Alflives said: Does this shooter profile as an actual “hired” assassin though? He missed from really close. IMO he was some social outcast kid. What motivated him to do this is still in question, no? But it’s highly unlikely he was part of anything greater than just himself. I can't believe I'm going to say this, but, I agree with you Alf 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sabrefan1 Posted July 14 Share Posted July 14 1 minute ago, DeNiro said: Patsies. The higher level officials would be the ones planning exactly where local law would be posted. If someone was able to walk in there and climb a building with a rifle that’s on poor planning which is at the top. Sorry but I’m not buying the Barney Fife narrative. Too convenient. And somehow this young “psychopath” knew exactly where there was weak security? Or are we to assume he could have freely climbed any building he wanted? They were still in the USSS area too, not the local police. The snipers that killed him were positioned behind him. There's video of people yelling at agents that there was a guy with a gun on the rooftop. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghostsof1915 Posted July 14 Share Posted July 14 2 minutes ago, Sabrefan1 said: Great idea actually. Problem is that they'd have to figure out a way to differentiate their drones from an imposter drone. If they solve that problem, that could be a good idea. If you are getting a security feed from a drone, then it's pretty easy to determine where your drone is. Anything that's not relaying it's position would be hostile. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sapper Posted July 14 Share Posted July 14 (edited) Why this is raising such concern about the security Is not so much about how the shooter got in with a rifle , but how he got and held high ground. As anyone with infantry or combat experience knows soldiers are taught at the very basic level to secure the high ground. Most protection details have snipers at the highest ground ensuring they take away any high ground from a would be shooter. The podium placement itself is specific to reduce the ability if someone with a handgun from getting close enough to shoot with any accuracy This shooter had the perfect high ground with clear line of site and time to get into position and fire a number of shots If the secret service was doing their job the shooter wouldn't have able to even get to the high ground (someone should have been placed there ). Also there should have been a sniper with spotter scanning possible firing positions and this shooter would not have gotten time to aim and shoot So I do feel they need to get to the bottom of why the secret service failed so badly and how a shooter got the ONLY high ground to themselves with so much time to get set This ends the debate of them implying Biden refused more security as they had ample staff in hand ... If they followed the book with the most basic of security details Was this the biggest failure in duty ? Or has it become such a belief that Trump is so loved that they took the day off believing it could never happen to Trump? In any event this was completely preventable and rightfully people are asking wtf happened and why Edited July 14 by Sapper 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted July 14 Share Posted July 14 1 minute ago, stawns said: I can't believe I'm going to say this, but, I agree with you Alf I know it’s early but I better start drinking! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeNiro Posted July 14 Share Posted July 14 Just now, Alflives said: Does this shooter profile as an actual “hired” assassin though? He missed from really close. IMO he was some social outcast kid. What motivated him to do this is still in question, no? But it’s highly unlikely he was part of anything greater than just himself. I’m not gonna keep throwing out theories because I’ll be labeled a conspiracy nut. Lee Harvey Oswald was a patsie. Who knows what was involved in getting him into that building with a rifle. Bottom line is he missed too. Would they have needed a second shooter if he didn’t? All I can say is if you believe they allowed this to happen, the other details wouldn’t be hard to manufacture. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stawns Posted July 14 Share Posted July 14 1 minute ago, Sabrefan1 said: They were still in the USSS area too, not the local police. The snipers that killed him were positioned behind him. There's video of people yelling at agents that there was a guy with a gun on the rooftop. They were, but they were reporting it to local law enforcement I think........that locals were not trained or qualified to do this kind of work competently is completely believable to me. That said, it also wouldn't surprise me if something was fishy........I'd just look at it from the angle of a false flag by the cult to further thid image of trump as a messiah Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sabrefan1 Posted July 14 Share Posted July 14 1 minute ago, Ghostsof1915 said: If you are getting a security feed from a drone, then it's pretty easy to determine where your drone is. Anything that's not relaying it's position would be hostile. How do you differentiate that fast enough to let the ground agents have time to react with a handheld drone scrambler? Do you use zoom cameras and keep your drones high enough to be out of the way and give ground agents a buffer zone? Serious question, not being facetious. I know diddly about those small drones people use for surveillance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeNiro Posted July 14 Share Posted July 14 5 minutes ago, stawns said: No, I don't think he knew, I think that was the area he could go without going through a metal detector or weapons check Forget a metal detector the guy had a rifle over his shoulder… Even then law enforcement on every side of the building and this would t even be possible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stawns Posted July 14 Share Posted July 14 2 minutes ago, Sapper said: Why this is raising such concern about the security Is not so much about how the shooter got in with a rifle , but how he got and held high ground. As anyone with infantry or combat experience knows soldiers are taught at the very basic level to secure the high ground. Most protection details have snipers at the highest ground ensuring they take away any high ground from a would be shooter. The podium placement itself is specific to reduce the ability if someone with a handgun from getting close enough to shoot with any accuracy This shooter had the perfect high ground with clear line of site and time to get into position and fire a number of shots If the secret service was doing their job the shooter wouldn't have able to even get to the high ground (someone should have been placed there ). Also there should have been a sniper with spotter scanning possible firing positions and this shooter would not have gotten time to aim and shoot So I do feel they need to get to the bottom of why the secret service failed so badly and how a shooter got the ONLY high ground to themselves with so much time to get set This ends the debate of them implying Biden refused more security as they had ample staff in hand ... If they followed the book with the most basic of security details Was this the biggest failure in duty ? Or has it become such a belief that Trump is so loved that they took the day off believing it could never happen to Trump? In any event this was completely preventable and rightfully people are asking wtf happened and why Again, it's reported that this was in the sphere of local law enforcement, not secret service and that people were telling police he was up there and they either didn't take it seriously or ignored it. As far as line of site, the kid couldn't get into the actual rally to shoot, so high ground was his only option. I'll bet my bottom dollar he plays sniper mod on CoD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sabrefan1 Posted July 14 Share Posted July 14 1 minute ago, stawns said: They were, but they were reporting it to local law enforcement I think........that locals were not trained or qualified to do this kind of work competently is completely believable to me. That said, it also wouldn't surprise me if something was fishy........I'd just look at it from the angle of a false flag by the cult to further thid image of trump as a messiah To me it just seems like it was several screw-ups coupled with there not being enough agents to properly do the job. Secret Service protection shouldn't be a place where you try and fish out some savings. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Optimist Prime Posted July 14 Share Posted July 14 11 minutes ago, Ghostsof1915 said: Might be a good idea to start having drones patrolling the area. That way if you spot some nutjob climbing onto a roof. You can get security/police/Secret Service to respond quicker. 8 minutes ago, Sabrefan1 said: Great idea actually. Problem is that they'd have to figure out a way to differentiate their drones from an imposter drone. If they solve that problem, that could be a good idea. There is a certain bias to all of us that once waldo has been found on a page, that spot we found him was the obvious spot all along. Adding hundreds of thousands of dollars to the entire mass of events in North America that happen everyday is not practical nor fiscally solvent. The idea that a drone would have spotted the shooter may be correct, but the thousands of other events that happened that day in North America didn't have a shooter to spot. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stawns Posted July 14 Share Posted July 14 1 minute ago, DeNiro said: Forget a metal detector the guy had a rifle over his shoulder… Even then law enforcement on every side of the building and this would t even be possible. And you think sn American walking around with an assault rifle is uncoomon in the US? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeNiro Posted July 14 Share Posted July 14 2 minutes ago, stawns said: And you think sn American walking around with an assault rifle is uncoomon in the US? During a presidential rally it would be something professionals should take note of. Especially when they start walking towards a building… Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boudrias Posted July 14 Share Posted July 14 5 minutes ago, DeNiro said: Patsies. The higher level officials would be the ones planning exactly where local law would be posted. If someone was able to walk in there and climb a building with a rifle that’s on poor planning which is at the top. Sorry but I’m not buying the Barney Fife narrative. Too convenient. And somehow this young “psychopath” knew exactly where there was weak security? Or are we to assume he could have freely climbed any building he wanted? Ultimately whether Trump was killed or not will be incidental for many Americans. It is all about the attempt. It will radicalize many supporters. It fractionalizes American society even more than it already is. The reaction to this attempted assassination could give Biden an avenue out of the POTUS race. Many Dems have turned against him and he could bow out as a form of national reconciliation. If Trump supporters start shooting Democrats then we could head towards civil war. Just what Putin always wanted. ` 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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