the destroyer of worlds Posted July 16 Share Posted July 16 3 minutes ago, Gurn said: Is the state where this happened an 'open carry' state? If so- how can you stop someone from walking around with a gun? It is. They also have a conceal carry law, but you have to be at least 21 and have the license. So outside of the gun free zone (2nd amendment gun nuts hate that term) of the event, there was little they could do until maybe when he went on the roof. At most, they would ask him to kindly leave, but that is about it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
24K Posted July 16 Share Posted July 16 21 minutes ago, nuckin_futz said: "Channel 4 News can reveal that Thomas Crooks's, [the shooter's] father, the owner of the rifle that was used to shoot at Donald Trump, was held on a database and profiled by the former president's election campaign and identified by them as a strong Republican supporter, gun owner and hunter. The information was compiled as part of a secret Republican project to gather data on millions of gun owners across America and use it to target pro-gun messages in the run up to the 2016 election...We know they profiled them using secret computer models to identify likely gun owners and enthusiasts, and Mr. Crooks scored very highly, 0.99 out of 1 for being a gun owner and 0.95 out of one 1 being a hunter. In fact, out of more than 19,000 people in Bethel Park who were profiled, Mr. Crooks was in the top 20 and the database classified him as a strong GOP or Republican voter." article here .... https://www.channel4.com/news/revealed-trump-campaign-secret-data-on-gunmans-family#:~:text=In 2016 the Trump campaign,other gun-related lifestyle indicators My new conspiracy theory. The shooter hates this dad and want to get back at his father. I'll see myself out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smashian Kassian Posted July 16 Share Posted July 16 1 minute ago, Bob Long said: I think there can be a false sense of security when nothing happens at a rally. It doesn't mean the security did a good job, it's just a nut didn't show up or got screen out in a metal detector. I think they saw a derpy kid walking around and dismissed him. I think it's that simple. Lets say your right about him wandering around. They saw him on the roof well ahead of time, atleast 15 mins before, and were made aware he had a gun (both by people in the crowd & by an officer climbing onto the roof only for the shooter to point it at him) minutes before shot rung out, so how do they not get Trump off the stage? They were aware of a threat. Walkie Talkies just not working in those few mins aswell? And do you think Cheatles explanation as to why the only obvious sniper nest in the area was left open - despite them doing a walkthrough the day prior & identifying the danger of it - is sufficient? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sapper Posted July 16 Share Posted July 16 7 minutes ago, 24K said: My new conspiracy theory. The shooter hates this dad and want to get back at his father. I'll see myself out. I'm glad Trump is ok.....I'm starting to believe that the shooter was more intent on starting a civil war and picked the target that could have started one Once radicalized it's hard to control a supporter and they forget that the politician radicalized them to support them ..... Not solely their cause This is the danger of the out of control rehtoric and how it gets taken too far by some ( in particular the more gullible and folks wanting to fit in ) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smashian Kassian Posted July 16 Share Posted July 16 13 minutes ago, the destroyer of worlds said: It is. They also have a conceal carry law, but you have to be at least 21 and have the license. So outside of the gun free zone (2nd amendment gun nuts hate that term) of the event, there was little they could do until maybe when he went on the roof. At most, they would ask him to kindly leave, but that is about it. No, you get the president off the stage as soon as the threat is identified. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Long Posted July 16 Share Posted July 16 (edited) 5 minutes ago, Smashian Kassian said: Lets say your right about him wandering around. They saw him on the roof well ahead of time, atleast 15 mins before, and were made aware he had a gun (both by people in the crowd & by an officer climbing onto the roof only for the shooter to point it at him) minutes before shot rung out, so how do they not get Trump off the stage? They were aware of a threat. Walkie Talkies just not working in those few mins aswell? And do you think Cheatles explanation as to why the only obvious sniper nest in the area was left open - despite them doing a walkthrough the day prior & identifying the danger of it - is sufficient? I think a massive screw up looks like a massive screw up. I don't see the need to run around and make up conspiracy stories. All of the conspiracies rest on the idea that these guys always do some elite job. Edited July 16 by Bob Long 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nuckin_futz Posted July 16 Share Posted July 16 (edited) 30 minutes ago, Spur1 said: About time. It requires Congressional approval so it's never going to happen. If you lived in a country that consistently voted 5-4 Left, and had somehow managed to build a court that's 6-3 Right why would you ever vote for this? Realistically this is probably Biden moving off his long held position and throwing a bone to his own party so they won't make him walk the plank. Edited July 16 by nuckin_futz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smashian Kassian Posted July 16 Share Posted July 16 6 minutes ago, Bob Long said: I think a massive screw up looks like a massive screw up. I don't see the need to run around and make up conspiracy stories. All of the conspiracies rest on the idea that these guys always do some elite job. If its just all these improbable coincidences coming together then all these breakdowns need to be explained & heads need to roll. Just calling it a 'screw up' isn't sufficient regardless what you think the explanation is. I've not made up any 'conspiracy stories', only stated the improbable facts & how asburd they are. It is funny though that the US agencies commit covert operations all over the world (no one denies this), we know in that in the past they've had domestic plots aswell, we even know they are willing to collude with social media companies for political purposes as of recently, yet even mentioning the idea anything could happen in the US presently is treated as though someone thinks the moon made of cheese. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Satchmo Posted July 16 Share Posted July 16 Here's CCN's take on why the Teamsters boss was at the RNC: Why a union president crossed partisan lines for a starring role at Trump’s RNC It was a remarkable moment Monday night at the Republican National Convention, surely creating some amount of confusion among longtime Republicans, when Sean O’Brien, president of the International Brotherhood of Teamsters, delivered a stemwinder of a speech in prime time. He called former President Donald Trump a “tough S.O.B.” O’Brien did not endorse Trump, but he leaned into the incongruity of speaking at the convention of a party that has long fought workers’ ability to organize. The union could vote to endorse a candidate later this year. “The Teamsters are doing something correct if the extremes in both parties think I shouldn’t be on this stage,” O’Brien said, adding that the union has endorsed Republican presidents Richard Nixon and George H.W. Bush in the past. This year, the Teamsters may not endorse any candidate, even though Biden has fashioned himself as the most pro-labor president in US history. Biden became the first president to join a picket line, when he appeared with striking auto workers in Michigan in 2023. “At the end of the day, the Teamsters are not interested if you have a “D,” “R” or an “I” next to your name. We want to know one thing,” O’Brien said. “What are you doing to help American workers?” Appearing Tuesday on “Inside Politics,” O’Brien told CNN’s Dana Bash he would speak at both conventions, but has not yet been invited to the Democratic convention. “The partisanship is not working. We need bipartisan support, we need bipartisan cooperation,” O’Brien said, adding he would definitely speak at the Democratic convention. https://www.cnn.com/2024/07/16/politics/teamsters-president-rnc-what-matters/index.html 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sabrefan1 Posted July 16 Share Posted July 16 Even the Secret Service is stunned that the other Secret Service agents allowed a sniper to get so physically close to Trump. Apparently, the local yokels should not have been given domain over that building. ------------------ A snippet from a Washington Post article. https://getpocket.com/explore/item/police-snipers-were-inside-building-as-trump-rally-shooter-fired-from-roof-above? Quote Current and former Secret Service agents have expressed shock that a gunman was able to get so close to Trump, in an incident that is considered the most serious Secret Service security failure since the attempted assassination of President Ronald Reagan in 1981. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Satchmo Posted July 16 Share Posted July 16 4 minutes ago, Smashian Kassian said: If its just all these improbable coincidences coming together then all these breakdowns need to be explained & heads need to roll. Just calling it a 'screw up' isn't sufficient regardless what you think the explanation is. I've not made up any 'conspiracy stories', only stated the improbable facts & how asburd they are. It is funny though that the US agencies commit covert operations all over the world (no one denies this), we know in that in the past they've had domestic plots aswell, we even know they are willing to collude with social media companies for political purposes as of recently, yet even mentioning the idea anything could happen in the US presently is treated as though someone thinks the moon made of cheese. Never underestimate people's ability to screw up. Of those covert operations you speak of don't forget the epic failure of the attempted rescue of the hostages in Iran. Even the successful raid to get Bin Laden cost an incredibly expensive and top secret stealth helicopter. All these actions were made by well trained and elite troops. BTW - the moon is not made of cheese but as Freud said "Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar." 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Long Posted July 16 Share Posted July 16 17 minutes ago, Smashian Kassian said: If its just all these improbable coincidences coming together then all these breakdowns need to be explained & heads need to roll. Just calling it a 'screw up' isn't sufficient regardless what you think the explanation is. I've not made up any 'conspiracy stories', only stated the improbable facts & how asburd they are. sorry not accusing you of that, just seeing a lot of it out there. I've done a lot of risk analysis in my work, and multiple layers of screw ups happen constantly in healthcare, e.g. When you look at something like how the wrong leg gets removed in a surgery, errors in drug delivery, babies being switched by accident, people with no credentials working as nurses, etc etc it isn't surprising to me at all to see police both 1) dismissing the derpy kid as a non-threat, and 2) communications about him being messed up once the confusion began. 17 minutes ago, Smashian Kassian said: It is funny though that the US agencies commit covert operations all over the world (no one denies this), we know in that in the past they've had domestic plots aswell, we even know they are willing to collude with social media companies for political purposes as of recently, yet even mentioning the idea anything could happen in the US presently is treated as though someone thinks the moon made of cheese. I'd leave this to someone with real experience in the area like @Optimist Prime to tell us how many times an operation like that has an error. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smashian Kassian Posted July 16 Share Posted July 16 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smashian Kassian Posted July 16 Share Posted July 16 5 minutes ago, Bob Long said: sorry not accusing you of that, just seeing a lot of it out there. I've done a lot of risk analysis in my work, and multiple layers of screw ups happen constantly in healthcare, e.g. When you look at something like how the wrong leg gets removed in a surgery, errors in drug delivery, babies being switched by accident, people with no credentials working as nurses, etc etc it isn't surprising to me at all to see police both 1) dismissing the derpy kid as a non-threat, and 2) communications about him being messed up once the confusion began. I'd leave this to someone with real experience in the area like @Optimist Prime to tell us how many times an operation like that has an error. 12 minutes ago, Satchmo said: Never underestimate people's ability to screw up. Of those covert operations you speak of don't forget the epic failure of the attempted rescue of the hostages in Iran. Even the successful raid to get Bin Laden cost an incredibly expensive and top secret stealth helicopter. All these actions were made by well trained and elite troops. BTW - the moon is not made of cheese but as Freud said "Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar." The most absurd part, beyond not fulfilling some of the core duties they are designed to fulfill, is simply that they are aware of the situation & did not get the president off the stage with time to do so. These are not stupid people by any stretch. Its not cops on the street in an entirely spontaneous situations, this whole security apparatus is designed & dangers reviewed ahead of time. If its just all a series of mistakes coming together, heads need to roll no doubt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Satchmo Posted July 16 Share Posted July 16 (edited) 5 minutes ago, Smashian Kassian said: If its just all a series of mistakes coming together, heads need to roll no doubt. You can be sure heads will roll. I just hope they are the correct heads. Edited July 16 by Satchmo 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gurn Posted July 16 Share Posted July 16 3 minutes ago, Bob Long said: I've done a lot of risk analysis in my work, and multiple layers of screw ups happen constantly in healthcare, e.g. When you look at something like how the wrong leg gets removed in a surgery, errors in drug delivery, babies being switched by accident, people with no credentials working as nurses, etc etc it isn't surprising to me at all to see police both 1) dismissing the derpy kid as a non-threat, and 2) communications about him being messed up once the confusion began. "Was that his right leg, or the leg on my right side" the surgeon asks himself. Iirc, after a screw up in Florida, it became necessary to mark the limb to come off, with grease pencil "this one' or words to that effect. also the patient has to show which one is to come off, prior to being taken into the or. People will think WTF, how can that happen? however if you are standing in front of someone, and tell, and show, them at the same time, that they have something on their face.- a lot of the time that person will touch the wrong side of their face. -------------------------------------- Human error is why many disasters happen. Check out 'the Tenerife disaster" hundreds of people die in two planes, as one tried to take off while the other was actually the plane that was authorized to move. Human fuck up- see it everyday i step outside- and some days i don't even have to go out! 2 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Long Posted July 16 Share Posted July 16 3 minutes ago, Smashian Kassian said: The most absurd part, beyond not fulfilling some of the core duties they are designed to fulfill, is simply that they are aware of the situation & did not get the president off the stage with time to do so. It is for sure. Maybe the order to do so wasn't given properly somehow? Dunno. 3 minutes ago, Smashian Kassian said: These are not stupid people by any stretch. Its not cops on the street in an entirely spontaneous situations, this whole security apparatus is designed & dangers reviewed ahead of time. It's like that air Canada pilot that nearly landed on the taxi way on top of multiple other planes, smart people do dumb things too. 3 minutes ago, Smashian Kassian said: If its just all a series of mistakes coming together, heads need to roll no doubt. That's my bet until there's hard evidence of something else. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smashian Kassian Posted July 16 Share Posted July 16 Its not a difficult shot at 130-150ish yards but man its incredible he's alive. The chances of the shooter even having that opportunity is so improbable, then Trump just happens to turn his head as the shot is coming. Incredible series of events. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Long Posted July 16 Share Posted July 16 5 minutes ago, Gurn said: "Was that his right leg, or the leg on my right side" the surgeon asks himself. Iirc, after a screw up in Florida, it became necessary to mark the limb to come off, with grease pencil "this one' or words to that effect. also the patient has to show which one is to come off, prior to being taken into the or. People will think WTF, how can that happen? however if you are standing in front of someone, and tell, and show, them at the same time, that they have something on their face.- a lot of the time that person will touch the wrong side of their face. -------------------------------------- Human error is why many disasters happen. Check out 'the Tenerife disaster" hundreds of people die in two planes, as one tried to take off while the other was actually the plane that was authorized to move. Human fuck up- see it everyday i step outside- and some days i don't even have to go out! 100% How many times has your pharmacist caught a prescription error for you or someone in your family. Happens all the time. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Heffy Posted July 16 Share Posted July 16 46 minutes ago, nuckin_futz said: It requires Congressional approval so it's never going to happen. If you lived in a country that consistently voted 5-4 Left, and had somehow managed to build a court that's 6-3 Right why would you ever vote for this? Realistically this is probably Biden moving off his long held position and throwing a bone to his own party so they won't make him walk the plank. Might be a good selling point to campaign on given the need to denazify the SCOTUS. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Satchmo Posted July 16 Share Posted July 16 2 minutes ago, King Heffy said: Might be a good selling point to campaign on given the need to denazify the SCOTUS. I fully agree with the sentiment but there are so many other words you could have chosen to express it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gurn Posted July 16 Share Posted July 16 Human error- B.C. Ferry style -coles note versions communication error: Decades back, in Nanaimo a RCMP officer was driving his van, full of family onto the upper car deck. The bridge had talked to the tower about departing, and was told " All clear after this car" Unfortunately, on the bridge they hear "All clear" so put her in gear and began to leave. Multiple deaths as the shore ship apron dropped when the car deck was no longer under it. Full write up in 'The Nemetz Report" by former Chief Justice Nathan Nemetz.--You see those red flashing lights on the ship? those were one of his many recommendations. They mean 'imminent departure" the ship is leaving. Gives people a visual warning to stop traffic from getting on the shore apron. Queen of the North sinking. OOW gives the quartermaster orders to bring the ship to port by a couple of degrees. QM say "2 degrees to port, steering such and such". ---- qm input the new course onto the auto pilot--but did NOT hit the l'lock in heading' button. OOW assumed his order was being followed- after all the QM verified. And the ship sailed on, on her original course. This process was repeated more than twice, as the OOW was trying for a gradual turn to clear the island, and kept believing that the course had been changed. He actually believed the course was good- until about a minute before hitting the island. 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smashian Kassian Posted July 16 Share Posted July 16 Whoa Quote Exclusive: Secret Service ramped up security after receiving intel of Iranian plot to assassinate Trump; no known connection to shooting US authorities obtained intelligence from a human source in recent weeks on a plot by Iran to try to assassinate Donald Trump, a development that led to the Secret Service increasing security around the former president, multiple people briefed on the matter told CNN. There’s no indication that Thomas Matthew Crooks, the would-be assassin who attempted to kill the former president on Saturday, was connected to the plot, the sources said. The existence of the intelligence threat from a hostile foreign intelligence agency — and the enhanced security for Trump — raises new questions about the security lapses at the Saturday rally in Butler, Pennsylvania, and how a 20-year-old man managed to access a nearby rooftop to fire shots that injured the former president. A US national security official said the Secret Service and Trump campaign were made aware of the threat before Saturday’s rally. “Secret Service learned of the increased threat from this threat stream,” the official told CNN. “NSC directly contacted USSS at a senior level to be absolutely sure they continued to track the latest reporting. USSS shared this information with the detail lead, and the Trump campaign was made aware of an evolving threat. In response to the increased threat, Secret Service surged resources and assets for the protection of former President Trump. All of this was in advance of Saturday.” https://www.cnn.com/2024/07/16/politics/iran-plot-assassinate-trump-secret-service/index.html This whole story is so wild 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Heffy Posted July 16 Share Posted July 16 26 minutes ago, Satchmo said: I fully agree with the sentiment but there are so many other words you could have chosen to express it. Considering Project 2025, they're not even trying to hide it anymore. Using anything else isn't taking the threat that they pose to humanity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted July 16 Share Posted July 16 1 minute ago, Smashian Kassian said: Whoa https://www.cnn.com/2024/07/16/politics/iran-plot-assassinate-trump-secret-service/index.html This whole story is so wild So this was the “ramped up” version of the Secret Service’s protection plan? Damn, they need to do better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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