US Politics Thread

[Bob Long]

6 minutes ago, Warhippy said:

Tell that to the people in charge when the labour movement started.

 

Any power shift in which the people force to affect change to their betterment is considered a form of anarchy to the establishment.

 

sure, but thats not the same thing as being aligned with anarchist political principles. In fact, the labour movement can't be, since it needs a stable political system to implement the needed changes. 

 

Its also a long way from the idea that some other type of economic system would be better, or some cheesy polysci101 class warfare graphic tells the whole story. 

[Warhippy]

5 hours ago, Cold said:

The Democrats at least brushed up against real change when Bernie challenged for the presidency. He never actually had a shot at winning, but people at least could now see a road to get there. Pity it was never built on. 

Now.  I was fully on the Bernie train.. I don't do the partisan thing if I can avoid it.  I find both sides of the wing to be repugnant.

 

But who shut down Bernie?  Who locked his supporters out of their super PAC voting for the nominee?  

 

The DNC did.  Not the GOP but the Democratic National Party itself.

 

It's the root argument I am making here.  People can claim the one party is better than another which is fine.  One party certainly seems to be attempting to do more for people than the other at this point.

 

That's the power balance.  The natural position to take against the GOP.

 

But when push came to shove the DNC fought to protect itself as opposed to seeking or allowing a candidate that would have absolutely shattered the systemic imbalance of power that exists to keep the middle class and lower class majority stabled in their positions due to the system that exists and does what it was created to do.

 

This is why I say neither party is different than the other because both are beholden to the system they created because they know without it their offices hold no power and there's no benefit to being in that office

[Warhippy]

3 minutes ago, Bob Long said:

 

sure, but thats not the same thing as being aligned with anarchist political principles. In fact, the labour movement can't be, since it needs a stable political system to implement the needed changes. 

 

Its also a long way from the idea that some other type of economic system would be better, or some cheesy polysci101 class warfare graphic tells the whole story. 

Has capitalism failed the average US citizen?

[nuckin_futz]

[Bob Long]

7 minutes ago, Canuckle said:

 

Unfortunately you're wrong.

 

Keeping capitalism in the US was a concession not a request by those fighting for rights and freedoms.

 

Read about "the new deal." How that happened. What the demands were.

 

As they say safety regulations are written in blood.  Also, you're wrong again. Businesses don't these things out of the kindness of their hearts. They do it because they are forced to. It costs money.

 

 

Christ the only reason there is a minimum wage is because if an employer could pay you less THEY WOULD.

 

People force the state to make changes. It doesn't come from business or from the state itself but from working people.

 

Its all about who's demands are met and what kind of leverage they have to get it. The wealthy have power, property and the system works in the favour to get more.

 

What do working class people have?

Not that. So what do they have to do to get those demands met? Whatever it takes.

 

It's called class conflict for good reason.

 

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Class_conflict

 

And that there is the epitome of the US political system.

 

you don't need to keep posting this hilarious graphic from 1911. 

 

Sure, "whatever it takes." Lucky for people in the US there are many entrenched systems that stay in place regardless of who's in power. 

 

Systems that work so well in fact, that people can take things like voting for granted. 

 

But sure, go break a window or something. 

 

[Bob Long]

3 minutes ago, Warhippy said:

Has capitalism failed the average US citizen?

 

I'd say no. Whats happened is a very high level of political apathy. If you could argue that the political options are exhausted, maybe I could agree, but they haven't been. 

 

All of the current major issues around housing and wages could be solved via politics, if people got active.

 

[Playoff Beered]

9 minutes ago, Warhippy said:

Tell me you don't get it without saying it.

 

You can say the message is different.  One cares more than the other 

 

But when I ask you to show me any single time one of either party (not named AOC or Sanders who are deemed radicals) voted to end the system they've created to help others.

 

I'm sure you'll have insane amounts of examples to give me because obviously they're totally different and haven't just lathered, rinsed and repeated since the 70s.

 

Right?  My dude?  Dude?

 

I can't think of a single time anyone anywhere in any place or time has ever voted to end a system, that they have created, in order to help others. Though there are probably some examples out there, maybe? Can you show any examples of this?

 

And I already stated that they are both part of the same system, that's not the point, the point is one of them is far worse than the other and if you get people to disengage then the worse option wins.

[Canuckle]

1 minute ago, Bob Long said:

 

sure, but thats not the same thing as being aligned with anarchist political principles. In fact, the labour movement can't be, since it needs a stable political system to implement the needed changes. 

 

Its also a long way from the idea that some other type of economic system would be better, or some cheesy polysci101 class warfare graphic tells the whole story. 

 

Sigh. That's incorrect again.

 

Anarchy isn't some ideal to later be achieved: it's direct action in and of itself. It's about dismantling identified systems of hierarchical power structures whatever those may be at any given time.  The beauty of it is that its adaptable, ever evolving.   Yes, of course some stateless, classless society would be an ideal in a world without domination, but PRAXIS in the here and now is the entire point.  Methods and means to achieving those things may look different at different times and require different tactics.
 

Yes, previous labour movements have been intrinsically entwined with Anachism since DAY ONE.

 

If you actually want to learn about this stuff i might a recommend a documentary film called "No Gods, No Masters: a history of Anarchism."

 

Bottomline is you just haven't done the required research and the readings to understand what is being discussed here.

 

And yes there are many many examples of successful NON capitalist economies and societies.

 

Google is your friend.

[Bob Long]

1 minute ago, Canuckle said:

 

Sigh. That's incorrect again.

 

Anarchy isn't some ideal to later be achieved: it's direct action in and of itself. It's about dismantling identified systems of hierarchical power structures whatever those may be at any given time.  The beauty of it is that its adaptable, ever evolving.   Yes, of course some stateless, classless society would be an ideal in a world without domination, but PRAXIS in the here and now is the entire point.  Methods and means to achieving those things may look different at different times and require different tactics.
 

Yes, previous labour movements have been intrinsically entwined with Anachism since DAY ONE.

 

If you actually want to learn about this stuff i might a recommend a documentary film called "No Gods, No Masters: a history of Anarchism."

 

Bottomline is you just haven't done the required research and the readings to understand what is being discussed here.

 

And yes there are many many examples of successful NON capitalist economies and societies.

 

Google is your friend.

 

So. In your US anarchist utopia, how do you maintain the stable systems needed to implement safe labour practices?

[Bob Long]

4 minutes ago, Canuckle said:

 

 

And yes there are many many examples of successful NON capitalist economies and societies.

 

 

you keep saying that, and yet you don't provide an example. 

[RupertKBD]

1 hour ago, Canuckle said:

 

You're saying the previous fascist in the white house was....because of anarchism? Apparently you are.  And you're 100% wrong yet again.

 

The nature of CAPITALISM is what leads to fascism.

 

Fascism is just capitalism IN DECAY.

 

(And spoiler alert Liberalism and capitalism go hand in hand too, fyi)

 

Populist leads like Hitler and the Orange Clown happens REGARDLESS of any movements fighting for emancipation in some way shape or form because of the fucking system.

 

And you've already shown in full flying fucking colors you don't know what anarchism even is so you can kindly sit the fuck down and eat your snack pack, kid.

 

You're done here.

 

I've heard enough.
 

 

 

 

Condescension with a side of self-righteousness....combined with a profanity laced personal attack....

 

Something tells me we'll soon be looking for a new POLI SCI professor.....

[Bob Long]

1 minute ago, RupertKBD said:

 

Condescension with a side of self-righteousness....combined with a profanity laced personal attack....

 

Something tells me we'll soon be looking for a new POLI SCI professor.....

 

whats most surprising to me is that there is anyone still trying to recycle this stuff. 

 

[Canuckle]

Just now, RupertKBD said:

 

Condescension with a side of self-righteousness....combined with a profanity laced personal attack....

 

Something tells me we'll soon be looking for a new POLI SCI professor.....

 

People that spread blatant disinformation are cancer and shall not be tolerated. Just like Jordan Peterson.

 

[Canuckle]

1 minute ago, Bob Long said:

 

whats most surprising to me is that there is anyone still trying to recycle this stuff. 

 

Says the guy who never understood any of it in the first place

 

 

ahhahahahahahahhaha

[Canuckle]

Just now, Bob Long said:

 

Ooh so much anarchy.

 

Come on man, try to stay on topic.

The questions you're asking about "anarchist Utopia" aren't relevant to this thread. 

 

I told you countless times to go make a new thread if you want to go there. Lol

 But you don't.

 

Secondly it's dumb question  and you can Google things yourself and read a book if you wanted to understand.

 

But all you're doing is trolling because you dont have anything left to argue lmao.

 

You're wrong bud. Get over it.

[Canuckle]

2 minutes ago, 4petesake said:

 

Why attack someone that made an effort to have a civil discussion with you?

Also - “If you are the smartest one in the room you are in the wrong room.”

It was never a good faith question. Not once from him or that other user.

 

[RupertKBD]

8 minutes ago, Canuckle said:

 

People that spread blatant disinformation are cancer and shall not be tolerated. Just like Jordan Peterson.

 

 

No doubt....

 

If only there was a meme....or three memes, to convey what is so blindingly obvious to those with such a discerning nature.....those dastardly disinformation pedlars would surely receive  their richly deserved comeuppance....

[Playoff Beered]

43 minutes ago, Canuckle said:

The questions you're asking about "anarchist Utopia" aren't relevant to this thread. 

 

You going on about a system that's never been implemented at scale is not relevant to this thread either. 

 

 

[Canuckle]

3 minutes ago, Playoff Beered said:

You going on about a system that's never been implemented at scale is not relevant to this thread either.

 

I already said those questions weren't  relevant to this thread and to start a new thread if you want to talk about this. But you don't.

 

Secondly, you're wrong yet again and spreading disinformation on the topic YET AGAIN.

 

@Sharpshooter

 

Nothing but bad faith behaviour and trolling from these two users.

[Playoff Beered]

7 minutes ago, Canuckle said:

I already said those questions weren't  relevant to this thread and to start a new thread if you want to talk about this. But you don't.

 

Secondly, you're wrong yet again and spreading disinformation on the topic YET AGAIN.

 

@Sharpshooter

 

Nothing but bad faith behaviour and trolling from these two users.

 

Asking for for you to back up your argument is spreading disinformation and trolling? And good luck getting sharpshooter to see @Bob Long as a troll.

Edited October 10, 2023 by Playoff Beered

[King Heffy]

https://globalnews.ca/news/10014666/kevin-mccarthy-republicans-house-speaker/

 

A white supremacist and a sexual assault enabler are the best the Republicans can provide for speaker candidates?

[Warhippy]

1 hour ago, Playoff Beered said:

 

I can't think of a single time anyone anywhere in any place or time has ever voted to end a system, that they have created, in order to help others. Though there are probably some examples out there, maybe? Can you show any examples of this?

 

And I already stated that they are both part of the same system, that's not the point, the point is one of them is far worse than the other and if you get people to disengage then the worse option wins.

That's the thing 

 

There are no examples my dude. That's the thing.  I mean...maybe Rome to a small extent?  But the barbarians were at the gates well before that.

 

Crony capitalism has killed the American dream.  Ronny's trickle down bs was fed to the masses and it killed their ability to make $.  Corporate interests now line up and pay their way in to law amendments that bury the average person.  Massive tax breaks subsidies and incentives are coming out of taxpayers pockets with the promise of a percentage of what was given away back.

 

There is zero example of this and there won't be an example to come.  The DNC won't allow it to happen.  The GOP won't allow it to happen.

 

Do you believe in this I am wrong?  Because this is what I am trying to convey here.  Neither party will allow this to end or allow the masses to affect that level of change.

 

I am not sitting here saying one party is better or worse than another.  I am saying neither party will end the system they exist under.

 

Until that system is shaken to the core it won't matter what party promises or does what because the end result is it won't amount to change for the average person in ways that are significantly measurable. 

 

Why?  Because neither party will allow their gravy train to end 

[Playoff Beered]

2 minutes ago, Warhippy said:

That's the thing 

 

There are no examples my dude. That's the thing.  I mean...maybe Rome to a small extent?  But the barbarians were at the gates well before that.

 

Crony capitalism has killed the American dream.  Ronny's trickle down bs was fed to the masses and it killed their ability to make $.  Corporate interests now line up and pay their way in to law amendments that bury the average person.  Massive tax breaks subsidies and incentives are coming out of taxpayers pockets with the promise of a percentage of what was given away back.

 

There is zero example of this and there won't be an example to come.  The DNC won't allow it to happen.  The GOP won't allow it to happen.

 

Do you believe in this I am wrong?  Because this is what I am trying to convey here.  Neither party will allow this to end or allow the masses to affect that level of change.

 

I am not sitting here saying one party is better or worse than another.  I am saying neither party will end the system they exist under.

 

Until that system is shaken to the core it won't matter what party promises or does what because the end result is it won't amount to change for the average person in ways that are significantly measurable. 

 

Why?  Because neither party will allow their gravy train to end 

 

Sure, lots of this is true but one party wants to go full authoritarian on us at the moment and if we disengage then they will have a clear path. 

[Warhippy]

2 hours ago, Playoff Beered said:

 

Sure, lots of this is true but one party wants to go full authoritarian on us at the moment and if we disengage then they will have a clear path. 

Again, and this cannot be stressed enough.

 

This is not strictly about the party at all.  Partisanship is a major part of the issue but it's not the overall problem.

 

The meat of every argument stems back to the system that exists is a system neither party will fix it correct for the people

 

I've been very extremely vocal about Canadian politics needing a total reset for the same reasons 

 

Until such time as something significant gives way.  The Dems and the GOP will still just be two similar entities arguing differing points of view but being absolutely unwilling to do anything to correct or fix it

[nuckin_futz]

 

Is how Jared got $2 Billion from the Saudis starting to make sense now? President Dotard isn't just someone who likes to keep souvenirs.

 

Jack Smith is indicating he has compelling evidence of ill intent. Get ready and stop arguing about non nonsensical BS. The biggest story in the history of the US is going to drop soon.