24K Posted July 18 Share Posted July 18 7 minutes ago, stawns said: I think the low numbers are largely because she's just not "out" there and people don't really know her. She's smart and tough, I think she'd have pretty broad appeal to people who are looking for a progressive candidate and Aldo to those who don't want some bleeding heart liberal. I think voters know her pretty damn well. It wasn't like Biden picked her from no where. Partially a fault of Biden, but him hiding her during her VP tenure exudes an air of incompetence to the voters not to mention being soundly rejected in the 2020 primaries. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curmudgeon Posted July 18 Share Posted July 18 5 minutes ago, stawns said: I think we all need to accept the era of cheap, foreign slave type labour is mostly over. China, as we know it, is largely over a cheap labour source and though others might step up, those countries will have to build the infrastructure to support that kind of industry. China has made huge investments in Africa. Over 10,000 Chinese firms are currently operating throughout the African continent, and the value of Chinese business there since 2005 amounts to more than $2 trillion, with $300 billion in current investments. Much of China's investment is in bringing African infrastructure up to modern standards. Right now, the overall African infrastructure won't permit bigger economic output, but Africa is the next big pool of cheap labout. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewbieCanuckFan Posted July 18 Share Posted July 18 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Long Posted July 18 Share Posted July 18 2 hours ago, Gurn said: I can't recall the last time an election was based on the good things a party did, or believes in; instead of 'my opponent is an idiot' type talk. 2 hours ago, 24K said: Biden's macroeconomic number is very good and that has done nothing to sway people to him. I think you overestimate the number of people these days that care about this kind of 'kitchen table' issues than those that vote with their emotions and social groups. this is an extreme case. There's nothing you could say to a Trumper to change them. The always-left voter already hates him. I do think it's going to come down to kitchen table/pocket book stuff with the small number of independents willing to look at issues. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
24K Posted July 18 Share Posted July 18 1 minute ago, Bob Long said: this is an extreme case. There's nothing you could say to a Trumper to change them. The always-left voter already hates him. I do think it's going to come down to kitchen table/pocket book stuff with the small number of independents willing to look at issues. Than why you worried about Vance? Anyone that actually do vote on policy will realize very quickly how disastrous Trump's would be if they think about it for a second. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curmudgeon Posted July 18 Share Posted July 18 6 minutes ago, 24K said: Partially a fault of Biden, but him hiding her during her VP tenure exudes an air of incompetence to the voters not to mention being soundly rejected in the 2020 primaries. So because you never heard much about her, you believe Biden was hiding her? Have you never noticed that American vice-presidents are pretty much always in the background? American vice-presidents are always busy with meetings and speaking engagements and visits with allies and such. They just don't get the press attention that the president does. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Long Posted July 18 Share Posted July 18 (edited) 1 minute ago, 24K said: Than why you worried about Vance? Anyone that actually do vote on policy will realize very quickly how disastrous Trump's would be if they think about it for a second. because Vance's type of message works during an election. Edited July 18 by Bob Long Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stawns Posted July 18 Share Posted July 18 14 minutes ago, 24K said: I think voters know her pretty damn well. It wasn't like Biden picked her from no where. Partially a fault of Biden, but him hiding her during her VP tenure exudes an air of incompetence to the voters not to mention being soundly rejected in the 2020 primaries. I think people only truly see a reflection of who the vp is, in the context of the main candidate. She's done some good work as VP, behind the scenes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
24K Posted July 18 Share Posted July 18 (edited) 5 minutes ago, Bob Long said: because Vance's type of message works during an election. Hence why I said way more people vote based on emotions. You are not a 'kitchen table issue' voter if voting on what sound good. Edited July 18 by 24K Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the destroyer of worlds Posted July 18 Share Posted July 18 4 minutes ago, Curmudgeon said: So because you never heard much about her, you believe Biden was hiding her? Have you never noticed that American vice-presidents are pretty much always in the background? American vice-presidents are always busy with meetings and speaking engagements and visits with allies and such. They just don't get the press attention that the president does. Throw in her duties breaking ties in the Senate. She has set the record. Currently did 33 times in less than 4 years. FYI the total number of times since 1789 is 301. She did more than 10% of the total. https://www.senate.gov/legislative/TieVotes.htm 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Long Posted July 18 Share Posted July 18 4 minutes ago, 24K said: Hence why I said way more people vote based on emotions. You are not a 'kitchen table issue' voter if voting on what sound good. Vance is speaking directly to lower middle class workers who feel squeezed, yeah thats a kitchen table target. Spending more and more time on Trump is a huge waste of time and resources, imo anyway. Everyone knows what he is, no one's mind is going to be changed on what that man is. But who's better for my job prospects? who has a better plan on education? housing issues? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
24K Posted July 18 Share Posted July 18 10 minutes ago, Curmudgeon said: So because you never heard much about her, you believe Biden was hiding her? Have you never noticed that American vice-presidents are pretty much always in the background? American vice-presidents are always busy with meetings and speaking engagements and visits with allies and such. They just don't get the press attention that the president does. I know Harris very well fyi. I am speaking of perception. The trend that is observed is Harris go out make a speech and made some sort of gaffe and then we don't see her for long durations in the public. Not saying that is right but just my observation from social media regarding her throughout these 4 years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stawns Posted July 18 Share Posted July 18 20 minutes ago, Curmudgeon said: China has made huge investments in Africa. Over 10,000 Chinese firms are currently operating throughout the African continent, and the value of Chinese business there since 2005 amounts to more than $2 trillion, with $300 billion in current investments. Much of China's investment is in bringing African infrastructure up to modern standards. Right now, the overall African infrastructure won't permit bigger economic output, but Africa is the next big pool of cheap labout. Chinas fate is sealed and there's nothing they can do about. China, as we know it, will cease to exist within the next couple decades. Same with Russia Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stawns Posted July 18 Share Posted July 18 3 minutes ago, Bob Long said: Vance is speaking directly to lower middle class workers who feel squeezed, yeah thats a kitchen table target. Spending more and more time on Trump is a huge waste of time and resources, imo anyway. Everyone knows what he is, no one's mind is going to be changed on what that man is. But who's better for my job prospects? who has a better plan on education? housing issues? You know you're in a cult (not you, but thrm) when they convince you that it's you vs elites, but the two guys you support are both ivy league graduates 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaimito Posted July 18 Share Posted July 18 14 hours ago, Jaimito said: House committees can often be sideshows to smear people or agencies. Like those covid origin panels, trying to discredit scientists. DHS might be doing that to protect SS from the same thing. I was right. That's not how elected officials should behave. MAGA infiltrated the entire GOP. https://www.threads.net/@cnn/post/C9kChf1C-VV/?xmt=AQGzSUu_8Rsd2zoARUM41BXGVd3tzGcQdBIhVJp03JompA 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
24K Posted July 18 Share Posted July 18 5 minutes ago, Bob Long said: Vance is speaking directly to lower middle class workers who feel squeezed, yeah thats a kitchen table target. Spending more and more time on Trump is a huge waste of time and resources, imo anyway. Everyone knows what he is, no one's mind is going to be changed on what that man is. But who's better for my job prospects? who has a better plan on education? housing issues? What make you think Biden focusing on these thing is gonna change the outcome? We see his record, it is fantastic for all of those issues. Voters you allude to still hates him for it. I am not sure what more he could do. Those lower middle class that feel squeezed already made up their mind on Biden. That is the thing with incumbents, their record should do the talking. Nothing they say about what they will do will matter cause the obvious response is why aren't you doing it now. Biden's team have hammered on his record and it made 0 difference. This election is about turnout and you get higher turnout if you go with emotions and essentially gaslighting the never Trumpers or those that lean that way to come out and vote for the Dems. Now if Biden is replaced then we can have this discussion and I will concur then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaimito Posted July 18 Share Posted July 18 7 minutes ago, stawns said: Chinas fate is sealed and there's nothing they can do about. China, as we know it, will cease to exist within the next couple decades. Same with Russia Same with the US. Politics change all the time, it just depends how long you observe it. US democracy is on the decline. Maybe Trump will stay on for a third term if he wins in Nov. Xi is on for life. Putin too. But they won't live forever. Mao was in power until he died. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stawns Posted July 18 Share Posted July 18 1 minute ago, Jaimito said: Same with the US. Politics change all the time, it just depends how long you observe it. US democracy is on the decline. Maybe Trump will stay on for a third term if he wins in Nov. Xi is on for life. Putin too. But they won't live forever. Mao was in power until he died. It's not politics, it's demographics. They're done for, losing half their population in the next 40 years. Add to that, they are a one person party and Xi has eliminated any competition who might threaten him. When he's gone, it all falls apart Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Long Posted July 18 Share Posted July 18 5 minutes ago, 24K said: What make you think Biden focusing on these thing is gonna change the outcome? We see his record, it is fantastic for all of those issues. Voters you allude to still hates him for it. I am not sure what more he could do. Those lower middle class that feel squeezed already made up their mind on Biden. That is the thing with incumbents, their record should do the talking. Nothing they say about what they will do will matter cause the obvious response is why aren't you doing it now. Biden's team have hammered on his record and it made 0 difference. This election is about turnout and you get higher turnout if you go with emotions and essentially gaslighting the never Trumpers or those that lean that way to come out and vote for the Dems. Now if Biden is replaced then we can have this discussion and I will concur then. change the messenger, bring home the message to workers in a different way. Figure out how to convince them the democrats have their back. As you say, they have the evidence for it, now it's about delivering the message home to them. I don't see what focusing on Trump does, is there anyone on the planet that doesn't know what he is? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elias Pettersson Posted July 18 Share Posted July 18 34 minutes ago, NewbieCanuckFan said: Kind of a weird way to say the guy died today… Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Long Posted July 18 Share Posted July 18 13 minutes ago, stawns said: You know you're in a cult (not you, but thrm) when they convince you that it's you vs elites, but the two guys you support are both ivy league graduates yea that one always kind of cracked me up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Heffy Posted July 18 Share Posted July 18 23 minutes ago, Bob Long said: Vance is speaking directly to lower middle class workers who feel squeezed, yeah thats a kitchen table target. Spending more and more time on Trump is a huge waste of time and resources, imo anyway. Everyone knows what he is, no one's mind is going to be changed on what that man is. But who's better for my job prospects? who has a better plan on education? housing issues? https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/article/2024/jul/16/jd-vance-abortion-rights-groups There's no reason for any sane person to vote for this worthless piece of shit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Long Posted July 18 Share Posted July 18 Just now, King Heffy said: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/article/2024/jul/16/jd-vance-abortion-rights-groups There's no reason for any sane person to vote for this worthless piece of shit. a lot of people in the US just don't see it the way you do. Hef. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stawns Posted July 18 Share Posted July 18 1 minute ago, Bob Long said: a lot of people in the US just don't see it the way you do. Hef. A good chunk of them, no question. Not really different here 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Heffy Posted July 18 Share Posted July 18 2 minutes ago, Bob Long said: a lot of people in the US just don't see it the way you do. Hef. And they should not have the right to inflict their barbaric beliefs on civilized people. Canada needs to get ready for refugees if Vance gets to commit the crimes against humanity that he's stated he's planning on committing. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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