King Heffy Posted October 13, 2023 Share Posted October 13, 2023 Just now, Sabrefan1 said: Most of that damage was caused by the old Tea Party radicalizing the meaning of "conservative". That happened way before Trump. They were awful, but they weren't openly attempting to Nazify the country by turning it into a fascist dictatorship and openly promoting domestic terrorism. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sabrefan1 Posted October 13, 2023 Share Posted October 13, 2023 Just now, Bob Long said: is he though? he seems fine with other dictators causing harm where the US could step in. Even the threat of US involvement can curb a lot of harm around the world. That's where you and I differ. I want to back off the world stage as it comes to war and let Europe take a bigger role. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nuckin_futz Posted October 13, 2023 Share Posted October 13, 2023 (edited) 10 minutes ago, Sabrefan1 said: The only lasting damage a president can do is waging war. He's against foreign wars. It's one of the few things I like about the man. The damage he and his party have done to the judiciary will last for decades. The real impact of that hasn't even begun to be felt yet. He wanted to send the army into Mexico to fight drug dealers and had a county's #2 assassinated on foreign soil. Not to mention reportedly repeatedly asking why he can't use nukes. Also I guess using a nuke against a hurricane doesn't count as a foreign war. Edited October 13, 2023 by nuckin_futz 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Heffy Posted October 13, 2023 Share Posted October 13, 2023 1 minute ago, Sabrefan1 said: He failed that miserably. He's not savvy enough to even get close to accomplishing that. And you don't think it's dangerous to have a president who is enough of a maniac to even try? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sabrefan1 Posted October 13, 2023 Share Posted October 13, 2023 1 minute ago, King Heffy said: They were awful, but they weren't openly attempting to Nazify the country by turning it into a fascist dictatorship and openly promoting domestic terrorism. I swear you all give his ravings too much credit. Those January 6th idiots were a couple thousand morons out of well over 300 million people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nuckin_futz Posted October 13, 2023 Share Posted October 13, 2023 Just now, Sabrefan1 said: I swear you all give his ravings too much credit. Those January 6th idiots were a couple thousand morons out of well over 300 million people. More people voted for him in 2020 than in 2016. Millions of people who weren't sold on him in 2016 saw his 1st term and wanted to sign up for the sequel. Sadly, it's not just a few thousand morons. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sabrefan1 Posted October 13, 2023 Share Posted October 13, 2023 1 minute ago, nuckin_futz said: The damage he and his party have done to the judiciary will last for decades. The real impact of that hasn't even begun to be felt yet. He wanted to send the army into Mexico to fight drug dealers and had a county's #2 assassinated on foreign soil. Not to mention reportedly repeatedly asking why he can't use nukes. Also I guess using a nuke against a hurricane doesn't count as a foreign war. That nuking a hurricane question he had was just an example of his rampant ridiculousness. As for the Mexico thing, he openly mused about it but decided against it when his advisors informed him that it was a silly idea. That's checks and balances. Even the US military ran checks on him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RupertKBD Posted October 13, 2023 Share Posted October 13, 2023 5 minutes ago, Sabrefan1 said: I'm more worried about one party having all 3 branches of government than I am of what Trump will manage to do. Presidents can issue orders, but they will be carried out by other politicians who, like the first time he was president, will twist them into party controlled orders. If Trump manages to win, the Republicans will worm their way into his decision making and surround him with career politicians like they did before. I wish I shared your optimism....but I don't. I tend to agree with the old saying, "When someone tells you who they are, believe them". In my opinion, Trump sees himself as a king and will do (or try to do) whatever it takes to make that happen. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post King Heffy Posted October 13, 2023 Popular Post Share Posted October 13, 2023 1 minute ago, Sabrefan1 said: That nuking a hurricane question he had was just an example of his rampant ridiculousness. As for the Mexico thing, he openly mused about it but decided against it when his advisors informed him that it was a silly idea. That's checks and balances. Even the US military ran checks on him. Would it not just be preferable to have a president who wasn't both evil and stupid though? 2 1 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sabrefan1 Posted October 13, 2023 Share Posted October 13, 2023 1 minute ago, nuckin_futz said: More people voted for him in 2020 than in 2016. Millions of people who weren't sold on him in 2016 saw his 1st term and wanted to sign up for the sequel. Sadly, it's not just a few thousand morons. If Trump gets re-elected, he's a lame duck president from Day 1. Unless the Republicans take the House and Senate back. There's a reason why 1-term presidents usually don't run again. 1 minute ago, King Heffy said: Would it not just be preferable to have a president who wasn't both evil and stupid though? YES! That's why I don't belong to a political party! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RupertKBD Posted October 13, 2023 Share Posted October 13, 2023 9 minutes ago, Sabrefan1 said: He failed that miserably. He's not savvy enough to even get close to accomplishing that. Soooo.....are you saying you're okay with electing a wannbe dictator because he's not very good at it? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sabrefan1 Posted October 13, 2023 Share Posted October 13, 2023 (edited) 4 minutes ago, RupertKBD said: I wish I shared your optimism....but I don't. I tend to agree with the old saying, "When someone tells you who they are, believe them". In my opinion, Trump sees himself as a king and will do (or try to do) whatever it takes to make that happen. Not gonna happen. Too many lifetime politicians who want their own crack at the White House. 2 minutes ago, RupertKBD said: Soooo.....are you saying you're okay with electing a wannbe dictator because he's not very good at it? I'm saying that if he gets elected, I'm not going to panic in the slightest. I hate this post merging feature. I hope you guys are getting my response notices. Edited October 13, 2023 by Sabrefan1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nuckin_futz Posted October 13, 2023 Share Posted October 13, 2023 4 minutes ago, Sabrefan1 said: That nuking a hurricane question he had was just an example of his rampant ridiculousness. As for the Mexico thing, he openly mused about it but decided against it when his advisors informed him that it was a silly idea. That's checks and balances. Even the US military ran checks on him. The checks and balances you speak of are hanging on by a thread. If you don't play ball you get primaried. That's hardly a check and balance. Plus in the 1st term he was somewhat restrained because he had to run for re-election. A 2nd term would be Trump unleashed. He's already hinted/pretty much said he'd be concentrating on seeking revenge. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sabrefan1 Posted October 13, 2023 Share Posted October 13, 2023 Just now, nuckin_futz said: The checks and balances you speak of are hanging on by a thread. If you don't play ball you get primaried. That's hardly a check and balance. Plus in the 1st term he was somewhat restrained because he had to run for re-election. A 2nd term would be Trump unleashed. He's already hinted/pretty much said he'd be concentrating on seeking revenge. I believe in the country's check and balances more than you do. His revenge on other politicians would keep him busy his first and possibly second year. Then he'd have half of year 3 to do his thing before his party starts to line up behind the guy that they will replace him with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RupertKBD Posted October 13, 2023 Share Posted October 13, 2023 3 minutes ago, Sabrefan1 said: Not gonna happen. Too many lifetime politicians who want their own crack at the White House. I'm saying that if he gets elected, I'm not going to panic in the slightest. It doesn't give you any pause that several of his former staff and staunch supporters have called him a dangerous demagogue? I think you're vastly underestimating the amount of damage he can do with the entirety of the GOP either supporting his future plans, or too cowardly to step in and try and stop them. 1 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Satchmo Posted October 13, 2023 Share Posted October 13, 2023 17 minutes ago, Sabrefan1 said: That's where you and I differ. I want to back off the world stage as it comes to war and let Europe take a bigger role. Twice now that has only delayed things and ended up in involvement anyway. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nuckin_futz Posted October 13, 2023 Share Posted October 13, 2023 1 minute ago, Sabrefan1 said: I believe in the country's check and balances more than you do. His revenge on other politicians would keep him busy his first and possibly second year. Then he'd have half of year 3 to do his thing before his party starts to line up behind the guy that they will replace him with. One of the main checks and balances put in place by the founders was congress. Do you feel the Republican House or the Republican Senate at the start of his Presidency was an effective check? And what if the 'guy' to replace him is his VP Kari Lake? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sabrefan1 Posted October 13, 2023 Share Posted October 13, 2023 2 minutes ago, RupertKBD said: It doesn't give you any pause that several of his former staff and staunch supporters have called him a dangerous demagogue? I think you're vastly underestimating the amount of damage he can do with the entirety of the GOP either supporting his future plans, or too cowardly to step in and try and stop them. The only way he causes damage is if the Democrat base doesn't show out in force and keep control of at least 1 house of Congress. If the Democrats don't bother showing up to the polls, Republicans will be unilaterally passing laws with him as a rubber stamp. I'm more afraid of one-party total control than I am of a wanna-be dictator who will be a lame duck from day 1. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Arrogant Worms Posted October 13, 2023 Share Posted October 13, 2023 Jim Jordan Wins Internal GOP Election For House Speaker Amid Chaos https://www.huffpost.com/entry/house-speaker-jim-jordan_n_65295611e4b0230cfe81a670 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sabrefan1 Posted October 13, 2023 Share Posted October 13, 2023 3 minutes ago, nuckin_futz said: One of the main checks and balances put in place by the founders was congress. Do you feel the Republican House or the Republican Senate at the start of his Presidency was an effective check? That's where this country has always done the most damage to itself in the last 30-40 years. When 1 party has total control. Trump will basically be like any other Republican president who would win in 2024. He'll be a rubber stamp for the party. That's not a Trump danger, that's a party danger. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nuckin_futz Posted October 13, 2023 Share Posted October 13, 2023 (edited) 2 minutes ago, Sabrefan1 said: That's not a Trump danger, that's a party danger. It's both. They will be concentrated on getting bills to his desk for him to rubber stamp and he'll be on a revenge tour and they will acquiesce to him in order to keep their hustle going. When 2 mob bosses reach a co-operation agreement it doesn't cancel out, it multiplies. Edited October 13, 2023 by nuckin_futz 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sabrefan1 Posted October 13, 2023 Share Posted October 13, 2023 8 minutes ago, Satchmo said: Twice now that has only delayed things and ended up in involvement anyway. I realize that. I'm just so sick and tired of being the world's police force. We can't afford it. Europe needs to keep it's side of the fence clean. If they can't or won't, they deserve to reap what they sow. 1 minute ago, nuckin_futz said: It's both. They will be concentrated on getting bills to his desk for him to rubber stamp and he'll be on a revenge tour and they will acquiesce to him in order to keep their hustle going. When 2 mob bosses reach a co-operation agreement it doesn't cancel out, it multiplies. Now you know why I don't belong to a political party. It's the same with each party and nearly every president. Trump was just stupidly loud about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nuckin_futz Posted October 13, 2023 Share Posted October 13, 2023 2 minutes ago, Sabrefan1 said: I realize that. I'm just so sick and tired of being the world's police force. We can't afford it. Europe needs to keep it's side of the fence clean. If they can't or won't, they deserve to reap what they sow. Now you know why I don't belong to a political party. It's the same with each party and nearly every president. Trump was just stupidly loud about it. Maybe 25+ years ago. One party has definitely shifted in their intentions. You are making like both parties are equal in their actions. There is a major difference. Democrats SAY stupid things. Republicans DO stupid things. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sabrefan1 Posted October 13, 2023 Share Posted October 13, 2023 1 minute ago, nuckin_futz said: Maybe 25+ years ago. One party has definitely shifted in their intentions. You are making like both parties are equal in their actions. There is a major difference. Democrats SAY stupid things. Republicans DO stupid things. The Democrats aren't any more competent than the Republicans. They're just the party you prefer over the other. The Republicans are smart in their sneakiness. They have been making a concerted effort at the state level for decades now while the Democrats mostly focused on the federal level. The Republicans know that if they can get 2/3 of the state houses and governors seats, they can call for a constitutional convention and literally rewrite the Constitution through amendments. They've already mostly succeeded in their judicial aims. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Satchmo Posted October 13, 2023 Share Posted October 13, 2023 Just now, Sabrefan1 said: I realize that. I'm just so sick and tired of being the world's police force. We can't afford it. Europe needs to keep it's side of the fence clean. If they can't or won't, they deserve to reap what they sow. I see your point. But it's 'the bear in woods' that Reagan warned us about that is causing problems now. And they are huge and apparently hungry. Europe can't go it alone despite spending a huge percentage of their gdp. It's not guaranteed that Russia is about to try to take over Europe and/or Africa and/or the middle east but I'd say a lot is pointing to it. I can see why you guys are itching to trim your debt and I can get behind it. But the numbers I've looked at make it seem that you still have piles of money and that an investment if Ukraine is worth it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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