US Politics Thread

[Sabrefan1]

Just now, Satchmo said:

I see your point.

 

But it's 'the bear in woods' that Reagan warned us about that is causing problems now.   And they are huge and apparently hungry.

 

Europe can't go it alone despite spending a huge percentage of their gdp.

 

It's not guaranteed that Russia is about to try to take over Europe and/or Africa and/or the middle east but I'd say a lot is pointing to it.

 

I can see why you guys are itching to trim your debt and I can get behind it.  But the numbers I've looked at make it seem that you still have piles of money and that an investment if Ukraine is worth it.

 

We can afford to take on more debt, that's true.  It doesn't come free though.  Things like Medicare and Medicaid are going to sooner or later face the chopping block because more of our budget continues to go towards serving our foreign debt.

 

Yet all of the countries that we protect can afford to have universal healthcare because they aren't taking on trillions in debt every year.

 

We're slowly dying as a country and once we do, we're going to be no good to anyone including ourselves.

[Bob Long]

48 minutes ago, Sabrefan1 said:

 

That's where you and I differ.  I want to back off the world stage as it comes to war and let Europe take a bigger role.

 

I guess you are going to have to draw me a picture of how ceding power to someone like Putin is in the US interest? 

 

I understand not wanting to be the World Police, but I don't get the claw back of military influence. 

[nuckin_futz]

14 minutes ago, Sabrefan1 said:

 

The Democrats aren't any more competent than the Republicans.  They're just the party you prefer over the other.

 

The Republicans are smart in their sneakiness.  They have been making a concerted effort at the state level for decades now while the Democrats mostly focused on the federal level.

 

The Republicans know that if they can get 2/3 of the state houses and governors seats, they can call for a constitutional convention and literally rewrite the Constitution through amendments.

 

They've already mostly succeeded in their judicial aims. 

 

I wasn't making the argument that D's are more competent than R's. I was making the argument that D's incompetence has resulted in a lot less damage to the population than the R's incompetence. The damage being policy.

Edited October 13, 2023 by nuckin_futz

[Sabrefan1]

2 minutes ago, Bob Long said:

I guess you are going to have to draw me a picture of how ceding power to someone like Putin is in the US interest? 

 

I understand not wanting to be the World Police, but I don't get the claw back of military influence. 

 

The EU can beat Putin in a ground war and now both Putin and the EU know it. 

 

He made a huge blunder in attacking Ukraine.

[Bob Long]

Just now, Sabrefan1 said:

 

The EU can beat Putin in a ground war and now both Putin and the EU know it. 

 

He made a huge blunder in attacking Ukraine.

 

I hope you are correct.

 

I do also agree with you to a large degree on other countries happily letting the US pay the freight on defence. Canada is guilty of that, and I don't like it. 

[Satchmo]

6 minutes ago, Sabrefan1 said:

 

We can afford to take on more debt, that's true.  It doesn't come free though.  Things like Medicare and Medicaid are going to sooner or later face the chopping block because more of our budget continues to go towards serving our foreign debt.

 

Yet all of the countries that we protect can afford to have universal healthcare because they aren't taking on trillions in debt every year.

 

We're slowly dying as a country and once we do, we're going to be no good to anyone including ourselves.

Maybe that Marshall plan wasn't such a good idea after all.   If all they are going to do is build democracies with things like universal healthcare?

 

OK, I know that was rude and dismissive, but I think it holds at least some truth.

 

Anyway, I've often wondered why you don't pick a state, maybe Vermont or one about the same size,  and try out a massive healthcare revamp.  If it fails, move along.   If it succeeds...

[Sabrefan1]

Just now, nuckin_futz said:

I wasn't making the argument that D's are more competent than R's. I was making the argument that D's incompetence has resulted in a lot less damage to the population than the R's damage. The damage being policy.

 

 

Over the decades I've watched both parties slowly killing this country.  Only being 40% responsible isn't a virtue.

[Sabrefan1]

1 minute ago, Bob Long said:

I hope you are correct.

 

I do also agree with you to a large degree on other countries happily letting the US pay the freight on defence. Canada is guilty of that, and I don't like it. 

 

The only thing I'm embarrassed about for Canada is it's navy.  You guys should be the ones buying our fairly new Littoral class combat ships that we will be slowly selling off soon.  You need the instant boost that they would provide.  Canada won't though because they aren't cheap to maintain even after they are bought for only a fraction of what they cost to create.

 

As for your ground troops, I get why they aren't as ready as they could be.  The US has no choice but to protect Canada and in doing so, protecting it's northern border.

 

At least Canada is smart and still keeps it's special forces well trained and supplied.

[nuckin_futz]

6 minutes ago, Sabrefan1 said:

 

 

Over the decades I've watched both parties slowly killing this country.  Only being 40% responsible isn't a virtue.

 

Touché

[Bob Long]

1 minute ago, Sabrefan1 said:

 

The only thing I'm embarrassed about for Canada is it's navy.  You guys should be the ones buying our fairly new Littoral class combat ships that we will be slowly selling off soon.  You need the instant boost that they would provide.  Canada won't though because they aren't cheap to maintain even after they are bought for only a fraction of what they cost to create.

 

we should be making our own. 

 

 

1 minute ago, Sabrefan1 said:

As for your ground troops, I get why they aren't as ready as they could be.  The US has no choice but to protect Canada and in doing so, protecting it's northern border.

 

At least Canada is smart and still keeps it's special forces well trained and supplied.

 

my preference is to become a global leader in drone tech. 

[Satchmo]

6 minutes ago, Sabrefan1 said:

 

 

Over the decades I've watched both parties slowly killing this country.  Only being 40% responsible isn't a virtue.

But is better than 60%

 

The gist of all this back and forth seems to show that you don't fear Trump so much.   That's fair.  Please keep in mind that he scares the living shit out of most of us.

 

BTW - I hope all this banter & chirping is getting nowhere close to driving you off again.   That would be a shame.

 

 

[Sabrefan1]

8 minutes ago, Satchmo said:

Maybe that Marshall plan wasn't such a good idea after all.   If all they are going to do is build democracies with things like universal healthcare?

 

OK, I know that was rude and dismissive, but I think it holds at least some truth.

 

You're singing the truth.  People were so petrified of communism back then that they felt the need for that.

 

Once communism fell in 1991, so did Europe's appetite to keep their armed forces strong so they redirected the funds to their economy and domestic social programs.

5 minutes ago, Bob Long said:

we should be making our own.

 

For a country that helped the Apollo mission as much as it did and then carried it on to help getting the Space shuttle program off the ground while also revolutionizing the way the world collects weather data through it's rocket creation, Canada really has fallen behind in technological leadership in the last 30 years or so.  It's so unfortunate.

6 minutes ago, Satchmo said:

But is better than 60%

 

The gist of all this back and forth seems to show that you don't fear Trump so much.   That's fair.  Please keep in mind that he scares the living shit out of most of us.

 

BTW - I hope all this banter & chirping is getting nowhere close to driving you off again.   That would be a shame.

 

Hell no.  I had nothing planned today.  It's keeping me entertained! 

[Sabrefan1]

11 minutes ago, Bob Long said:

my preference is to become a global leader in drone tech. 

 

Iran is building mini aircraft carriers out of old merchant ships in order to start using it's drones everywhere.

 

Canada has a ways to even catch up to them.

[Bob Long]

6 minutes ago, Sabrefan1 said:

 

For a country that helped the Apollo mission as much as it did and then carried it on to help getting the Space shuttle program off the ground while also revolutionizing the way the world collects weather data through it's rocket creation, Canada really has fallen behind in technological leadership in the last 30 years or so.  It's so unfortunate.

 

Yep. I don't know what the Liberals are afraid of. Investing in our own products is a good thing. Sure we have the 3 large ship building companies but it's painfully slow and just one aspect of what we could be doing. I think we should be making and supplying the world's most advanced drones to our Nordic allies.

2 minutes ago, Sabrefan1 said:

 

Iran is building mini aircraft carriers out of old merchant ships in order to start using it's drones everywhere.

 

Canada has a ways to even catch up to them.

Ironically we already make components - we used to sell to Turkey e.g.

[Sabrefan1]

Just now, Bob Long said:

Yep. I don't know what the Liberals are afraid of. Investing in our own products is a good thing. Sure we have the 3 large ship building companies but it's painfully slow and just one aspect of what we could be doing. I think we should be making and supplying the world's most advanced drones to our Nordic allies.

 

Canada, like Europe, seems like it's gotten complacent over the decades with the current world order. 

 

To this day, I'll never understand why instead of making finished products with its abundant resources, Canada prefers to sell it's raw resources for a quick buck rather than prosper by playing the long game of product creation.

 

One of the many reasons why the US rebelled in 1776 was because Britain demanded we send them our raw resources so they could turn around and sell us finished products.

[Warhippy]

49 minutes ago, Sabrefan1 said:

 

The Democrats aren't any more competent than the Republicans.  They're just the party you prefer over the other.

 

The Republicans are smart in their sneakiness.  They have been making a concerted effort at the state level for decades now while the Democrats mostly focused on the federal level.

 

The Republicans know that if they can get 2/3 of the state houses and governors seats, they can call for a constitutional convention and literally rewrite the Constitution through amendments.

 

They've already mostly succeeded in their judicial aims. 

Now they can concentrate on state level changes, immigration and ensuring that their social policies and redrawing of electoral boundaries get done.  Should they get in to power this will be their next major moves and once they're complete it will be the social programs and more tax law revisions

[King Heffy]

4 minutes ago, Sabrefan1 said:

 

Canada, like Europe, seems like it's gotten complacent over the decades with the current world order. 

 

To this day, I'll never understand why instead of making finished products with its abundant resources, Canada prefers to sell it's raw resources for a quick buck rather than prosper by playing the long game of product creation.

 

One of the many reasons why the US rebelled in 1776 was because Britain demanded we send them our raw resources so they could turn around and sell us finished products.

And here is where we agree entirely.  One of my main complaints about our oil pipelines is that we should be refining more in Canada.  Add value to the supply chain.

[Sabrefan1]

5 hours ago, Warhippy said:

Now they can concentrate on state level changes, immigration and ensuring that their social policies and redrawing of electoral boundaries get done.  Should they get in to power this will be their next major moves and once they're complete it will be the social programs and more tax law revisions

 

The Republicans have been concentrating on it all along.  Even when they are at their weakest in Washington, they hammer at getting state level power. 

 

Own the states, and you own the country.  The Democrats finally woke up to that reality about a decade ago when the Republicans were getting awfully close to the 2/3 watermark.

Edited October 14, 2023 by Sabrefan1

[Warhippy]

1 hour ago, The Arrogant Worms said:

Jim Jordan Wins Internal GOP Election For House Speaker Amid Chaos

 

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/house-speaker-jim-jordan_n_65295611e4b0230cfe81a670

Nothing like having a guy who looked the other way while his people were being sexually abused and assaulted before lying about it be the voice of your party

1 minute ago, Sabrefan1 said:

 

The Republicans have been concentrating on it all along.  Even when they are at their weakest in Washington, they hammer at getting state level power. 

 

Own the states, and you own the country.  The Democrats finally woke up to that reality about a decade ago when the Republicans were getting awfully close to the 2/3 watemark.

I don't mean in the state level I mean AT the state level.  A redrafting of federal laws tat will benefit them in the long run via education, social policies etc.  

[Sabrefan1]

1 minute ago, Warhippy said:

Nothing like having a guy who looked the other way while his people were being sexually abused and assaulted before lying about it be the voice of your party

 

He's a smart dude, but he will always be tainted in my eyes for not speaking up about what others were doing to those kids.

 

5 minutes ago, Warhippy said:

I don't mean in the state level I mean AT the state level.  A redrafting of federal laws tat will benefit them in the long run via education, social policies etc.  

 

They try but the Republicans control much of the judiciary.  Any law the Democrats pass that is considered too radical and too beneficial to them eventually gets overturned.  Now that they control the Supreme court by a 6-3 majority, the Democrats aren't going to be able to push much of anything overly beneficial to them through.

 

The Democrats only have themselves to blame.  Complacency coupled with poor long term planning has damaged them.

[Bob Long]

33 minutes ago, Sabrefan1 said:

 

Canada, like Europe, seems like it's gotten complacent over the decades with the current world order. 

 

To this day, I'll never understand why instead of making finished products with its abundant resources, Canada prefers to sell it's raw resources for a quick buck rather than prosper by playing the long game of product creation.

 

One of the many reasons why the US rebelled in 1776 was because Britain demanded we send them our raw resources so they could turn around and sell us finished products.

 

Because it's easy and some fat bastards have the flow of goods locked down tight.

 

We also have an anemic venture capital system here, its far too hard to find investment if its not real estate.

 

Edited October 13, 2023 by Bob Long

[Sabrefan1]

1 minute ago, Bob Long said:

Because it's easy and some fat bastards have the flow of goods locked down tight 

 

I think you nailed it with the easy part.  Easy money, easy work, easy to sell. 

 

If Canada were to start producing superior end products tomorrow, they would eventually prosper.

 

Japan used to be known for producing junk goods post WW2.  That changed in the late 70's and early 80's.  They made the effort to supplant the US in automobiles and electronics.  They eventually succeeded.  The US eventually caught back up, but only because it was forced to.

 

For example, when I buy electronic components for my projects, I do my best to make sure that I buy as many Japanese and US components as possible.  I only buy Chinese parts when they aren't otherwise available.

[King Heffy]

1 minute ago, Sabrefan1 said:

 

I think you nailed it with the easy part.  Easy money, easy work, easy to sell. 

 

If Canada were to start producing superior end products tomorrow, they would eventually prosper.

 

Japan used to be known for producing junk goods post WW2.  That changed in the late 70's and early 80's.  They made the effort to supplant the US in automobiles and electronics.  They eventually succeeded.  The US eventually caught back up, but only because it was forced to.

 

For example, when I buy electronic components for my projects, I do my best to make sure that I buy as many Japanese and US components as possible.  I only buy Chinese parts when they aren't otherwise available.

Canada has an advantage of having a domestic supply of raw materials too.  I said this in the Canadian thread, but it looks like we'll be extracting a lot more lithium soon if all goes well.  Why not invest in subsidizing a battery factory?

[Sabrefan1]

9 minutes ago, King Heffy said:

Canada has an advantage of having a domestic supply of raw materials too.  I said this in the Canadian thread, but it looks like we'll be extracting a lot more lithium soon if all goes well.  Why not invest in subsidizing a battery factory?

 

Yeah.  I made mention of Canada's abundance of raw materials earlier.

 

Eventually sodium-ion based batteries are going to replace Lithium-Ion.  Sodium is only 1 square away from lithium on the element table.

 

If Canada were to invest in lithium battery technology today, it would be nearly a seamless move to transition to sodium batteries if those do take over for lithium like many believe.

 

Canada could have a world leading position if it invests with the long term in mind.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- edit--------

I have to leave to run a quick end of day errand.  I'll be back in an hour or two.

Edited October 13, 2023 by Sabrefan1

[Sharpshooter]