US Politics Thread

[nuckin_futz]

22 minutes ago, Sabrefan1 said:

 

 

That has always amused me, especially the last one.

 

I guess hair dye wasn't a big thing in the 40's.

[Ilunga]

55 minutes ago, 6of1_halfdozenofother said:

 

Are you sure you didn't mean Soviet Russia?  Nazi Germany - especially at its ascension - was most certainly on the right.

 

The Nazi party was at its heart a nationalist movement.

 

It was neither a left based movement, nor right.

 

At its inception, it used socialists, in particular the Strasser brothers, to push its message to the lower/middle classes.

Later when Hitler wanted to actually take power he sought the backing of wealthy industrialists who were fearful of the socialists. 

 

Trump is similar in the sense that he is pushing nationalist rhetoric, MAGA, while also demonizing/dehumanising a segment of the population, immigrants.

 

 

[Chickenspear]

Just now, nuckin_futz said:

 

I guess hair dye wasn't a big thing in the 40's.

Wouldn't have fooled anyone. Sooner or later his roots would show.

 

[SilentSam]

In the US ..      be aware of others marking or handling your ballot .  !!

 

 

 

 

[Bob Long]

18 minutes ago, Sabrefan1 said:

 

Which voters?  MAGA or the regular Republicans?

 

MAGA is MAGA.  Regular Republicans don't want the Democrats in power. 

 

The regular folks. At some point you have to take off the partisan hat.

 

18 minutes ago, Sabrefan1 said:

Honestly, I'm much more worried about Congress than I am Trump.

 

Congressional Republicans are going to raise the minimum retirement age citing the state of Social Security's finances, then they will turn right around afterwards and use the money that saves to give giant tax cuts to their donors.

 

The only thing that could have the chance of stopping it would be a Democratic filibuster, but since they know the Democrats are going to kill the filibuster the first chance they get, the Republicans may just beat them to it in order to kneecap the retirement age.

 

 

Well, maybe that's the only way the reputation rank and file learn their lesson about blind partisanship, work a few years longer.

[Sabrefan1]

7 minutes ago, SilentSam said:

In the US ..      be aware of others marking or handling your ballot .  !!

 

 

 

 

 

In NY, you are the only one who handles your ballot after it's handed to you.  It's handed to you inside a folder and after filling it out, you walk it up to the counting machine and run it through.

[Sabrefan1]

9 minutes ago, Bob Long said:

 

The regular folks. At some point you have to take off the partisan hat.

 

That's not the state of our politics right now.  That's one off the reasons why I so badly want a serious 3rd party.

 

Quote

Well, maybe that's the only way the reputation rank and file learn their lesson about blind partisanship, work a few years longer.

 

We'll see how people react to it when it happens.

[Bob Long]

3 minutes ago, Sabrefan1 said:

 

That's not the state of our politics right now.  That's one off the reasons why I so badly want a serious 3rd party.

 

 

It's served us well, imo. 

 

3 minutes ago, Sabrefan1 said:

We'll see how people react to it when it happens.

 

I suspect the republicans will just blame the dems. 

 

[nuckin_futz]

White officer guns down black lady in her own home. 
 

Dumbo’s response…. 
 

 

There goes the African American vote. 

Edited July 28 by nuckin_futz

[Ilunga]

10 minutes ago, nuckin_futz said:

White officer guns down black lady in her own home. 
 

Dumbo’s response…. 
 

 

There goes the African American vote. 

 

This statement of trumps highlights his ignorance of legal proceedings.

 

Most criminal proceedings happen in state courts, even if elected he would have no power in regards to them. 

 

One example I found is Derek Chauvin, the cop who was convicted of murdering George Floyd. 

To cut a long story short, he was federally sentenced to 21 years, his state sentence was 22 and half years. 

The sentences are concurrent, not consecutive. 

 

So as usual, Trump is just talking crap, pandering to his base.

[kilgore]

3 hours ago, Sabrefan1 said:

 

Trump is winning because he's a major party candidate.  If he had run as an independent, he'd be in 3rd place splitting the vote with the Republican candidate and Joe Biden would still be in the race with a huge lead.

 

As for independents, Trump polls better on 2 issues that they care about, the border and the economy.  JD Vance was a poor choice for VP so that will cost him some votes and he has to keep slip-ups to a minimum.   Saying what he said about voting in 4 years, isn't going to help his case in that regard.  I get that he's pandering to the audience but that feeds into the concern some have about him.

 

 

I am perpetually amazed how the Right wing in your country has managed to foment the myth of superior economic governance abilities by Republicans over Democrats.  I suppose its based on an old idea about Dems = Communists.   And hard core Communists, in the strictest Marxist/Leninist way, are seen to champion the annihilation of private property, or private business, where the State takes care of everyone.  So they equate that theory with the Democratic Socialism of Northern Europe, which is where they project D's headed to, where taxes are higher, because the State provides more services...such as universal healthcare, family leave, longer holidays etc. More of ones life is taken care of by the elected government, in exchange for higher taxes.

 

But in reality, if you look at economic performance in the last 40 years or so, its Republicans that take the US into recessions, and Democrats digging the country out of them.  George senior, who dared to go back on his word about no new taxes. He had to to try and stabilize government coffers after the Savings and Loan collapse triggering a small recession in his last  year paving the way for Bill Clinton.  Who then broke records with job gains and the longest economic growth ever during his term.  Then came George W, who ushered in a bad recession, on the brink of a real depression, triggered by his huge tax cuts to the wealthy. Then Obama came in and saved the economy again.  Actually cut middle class taxes while building infrastructure. Not to mention providing access for 30 million more with health insurance.

 

Trump lost a record number of jobs.  Poisoned relations with economic allies. His chaotic fickle way of governing was not helpful to stability of markets either.  Some of the downturn can be blamed on the COVID crisis for sure. But his denial and then pandering to conspiracy theorists about vaccines, killed twice as many citizens per capita as other western nations who handled the pandemic in a medical science based procedure.  Stoked political division in the country. All of which can't be good for the general health, economic or otherwise.

 

Biden has a record jobs added.  The US is today regarded as the best economy in the world. Even Fox Business Network has to sheepishly admit Biden has been doing great on the economy. His Inflation Reduction Act greatly helped manufacturers. 

 

As far as the border, as someone said, its not just the Democrats responsibility.  And Trump had 4 years himself. But Biden did have a bipartison bill on the table, together with R's, with harsher provisions than Democrats had ever been okay with before.  Trump nixed it before it could be implemented.  Parties have to work together on this. I recall George W tried also to pass immigration reform but his own party didn't support the Dream act part with a path to citizenship for nativized illegal aliens.

 

So again, why do Republicans get the higher approval on these two areas?  I think the MSM is a big part of the problem. Its too easy to just go along with the established myths when describing the characteristics of both parties.

 

 

[JoeyJoeJoeJr. Shabadoo]

12 minutes ago, kilgore said:

 

 

I am perpetually amazed how the Right wing in your country has managed to foment the myth of superior economic governance abilities by Republicans over Democrats.  I suppose its based on an old idea about Dems = Communists.   And hard core Communists, in the strictest Marxist/Leninist way, are seen to champion the annihilation of private property, or private business, where the State takes care of everyone.  So they equate that theory with the Democratic Socialism of Northern Europe, which is where they project D's headed to, where taxes are higher, because the State provides more services...such as universal healthcare, family leave, longer holidays etc. More of ones life is taken care of by the elected government, in exchange for higher taxes.

 

But in reality, if you look at economic performance in the last 40 years or so, its Republicans that take the US into recessions, and Democrats digging the country out of them.  George senior, who dared to go back on his word about no new taxes. He had to to try and stabilize government coffers after the Savings and Loan collapse triggering a small recession in his last  year paving the way for Bill Clinton.  Who then broke records with job gains and the longest economic growth ever during his term.  Then came George W, who ushered in a bad recession, on the brink of a real depression, triggered by his huge tax cuts to the wealthy. Then Obama came in and saved the economy again.  Actually cut middle class taxes while building infrastructure. Not to mention providing access for 30 million more with health insurance.

 

Trump lost a record number of jobs.  Poisoned relations with economic allies. His chaotic fickle way of governing was not helpful to stability of markets either.  Some of the downturn can be blamed on the COVID crisis for sure. But his denial and then pandering to conspiracy theorists about vaccines, killed twice as many citizens per capita as other western nations who handled the pandemic in a medical science based procedure.  Stoked political division in the country. All of which can't be good for the general health, economic or otherwise.

 

Biden has a record jobs added.  The US is today regarded as the best economy in the world. Even Fox Business Network has to sheepishly admit Biden has been doing great on the economy. His Inflation Reduction Act greatly helped manufacturers. 

 

As far as the border, as someone said, its not just the Democrats responsibility.  And Trump had 4 years himself. But Biden did have a bipartison bill on the table, together with R's, with harsher provisions than Democrats had ever been okay with before.  Trump nixed it before it could be implemented.  Parties have to work together on this. I recall George W tried also to pass immigration reform but his own party didn't support the Dream act part with a path to citizenship for nativized illegal aliens.

 

So again, why do Republicans get the higher approval on these two areas?  I think the MSM is a big part of the problem. Its too easy to just go along with the established myths when describing the characteristics of both parties.

 

 

"The economy does better under Democrats than Republicans" - Donald Trump

[Bob Long]

2 hours ago, SilentSam said:

Timely ,   Eh?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Is there actual proof of this? 

[nuckin_futz]

18 minutes ago, Ilunga said:

 

So as usual, Trump is just talking crap, pandering to his base.

Exactly, but at this stage of the game he doesn’t need to feed the base red meat. He needs to broaden his base. 
 

It’s bad election strategy but like a drug addict he just can’t help himself. 

[nuckin_futz]

22 minutes ago, kilgore said:

 

 

I am perpetually amazed how the Right wing in your country has managed to foment the myth of superior economic governance abilities by Republicans over Democrats.  I suppose its based on an old idea about Dems = Communists.   And hard core Communists, in the strictest Marxist/Leninist way, are seen to champion the annihilation of private property, or private business, where the State takes care of everyone.  So they equate that theory with the Democratic Socialism of Northern Europe, which is where they project D's headed to, where taxes are higher, because the State provides more services...such as universal healthcare, family leave, longer holidays etc. More of ones life is taken care of by the elected government, in exchange for higher taxes.

 

But in reality, if you look at economic performance in the last 40 years or so, its Republicans that take the US into recessions, and Democrats digging the country out of them.  George senior, who dared to go back on his word about no new taxes. He had to to try and stabilize government coffers after the Savings and Loan collapse triggering a small recession in his last  year paving the way for Bill Clinton.  Who then broke records with job gains and the longest economic growth ever during his term.  Then came George W, who ushered in a bad recession, on the brink of a real depression, triggered by his huge tax cuts to the wealthy. Then Obama came in and saved the economy again.  Actually cut middle class taxes while building infrastructure. Not to mention providing access for 30 million more with health insurance.

 

Trump lost a record number of jobs.  Poisoned relations with economic allies. His chaotic fickle way of governing was not helpful to stability of markets either.  Some of the downturn can be blamed on the COVID crisis for sure. But his denial and then pandering to conspiracy theorists about vaccines, killed twice as many citizens per capita as other western nations who handled the pandemic in a medical science based procedure.  Stoked political division in the country. All of which can't be good for the general health, economic or otherwise.

 

Biden has a record jobs added.  The US is today regarded as the best economy in the world. Even Fox Business Network has to sheepishly admit Biden has been doing great on the economy. His Inflation Reduction Act greatly helped manufacturers. 

 

As far as the border, as someone said, its not just the Democrats responsibility.  And Trump had 4 years himself. But Biden did have a bipartison bill on the table, together with R's, with harsher provisions than Democrats had ever been okay with before.  Trump nixed it before it could be implemented.  Parties have to work together on this. I recall George W tried also to pass immigration reform but his own party didn't support the Dream act part with a path to citizenship for nativized illegal aliens.

 

So again, why do Republicans get the higher approval on these two areas?  I think the MSM is a big part of the problem. Its too easy to just go along with the established myths when describing the characteristics of both parties.

 

 

I don’t hear one MAGA person bitching about their 401k’s performance. Yet they all deride Biden for ruining the economy and are itching to turn it over to the side who consistently underperforms. 

[Ilunga]

5 minutes ago, kilgore said:

 

 

I am perpetually amazed how the Right wing in your country has managed to foment the myth of superior economic governance abilities by Republicans over Democrats.  I suppose its based on an old idea about Dems = Communists.   And hard core Communists, in the strictest Marxist/Leninist way, are seen to champion the annihilation of private property, or private business, where the State takes care of everyone.  So they equate that theory with the Democratic Socialism of Northern Europe, which is where they project D's headed to, where taxes are higher, because the State provides more services...such as universal healthcare, family leave, longer holidays etc. More of ones life is taken care of by the elected government, in exchange for higher taxes.

 

But in reality, if you look at economic performance in the last 40 years or so, its Republicans that take the US into recessions, and Democrats digging the country out of them.  George senior, who dared to go back on his word about no new taxes. He had to to try and stabilize government coffers after the Savings and Loan collapse triggering a small recession in his last  year paving the way for Bill Clinton.  Who then broke records with job gains and the longest economic growth ever during his term.  Then came George W, who ushered in a bad recession, on the brink of a real depression, triggered by his huge tax cuts to the wealthy. Then Obama came in and saved the economy again.  Actually cut middle class taxes while building infrastructure. Not to mention providing access for 30 million more with health insurance.

 

Trump lost a record number of jobs.  Poisoned relations with economic allies. His chaotic fickle way of governing was not helpful to stability of markets either.  Some of the downturn can be blamed on the COVID crisis for sure. But his denial and then pandering to conspiracy theorists about vaccines, killed twice as many citizens per capita as other western nations who handled the pandemic in a medical science based procedure.  Stoked political division in the country. All of which can't be good for the general health, economic or otherwise.

 

Biden has a record jobs added.  The US is today regarded as the best economy in the world. Even Fox Business Network has to sheepishly admit Biden has been doing great on the economy. His Inflation Reduction Act greatly helped manufacturers. 

 

As far as the border, as someone said, its not just the Democrats responsibility.  And Trump had 4 years himself. But Biden did have a bipartison bill on the table, together with R's, with harsher provisions than Democrats had ever been okay with before.  Trump nixed it before it could be implemented.  Parties have to work together on this. I recall George W tried also to pass immigration reform but his own party didn't support the Dream act part with a path to citizenship for nativized illegal aliens.

 

So again, why do Republicans get the higher approval on these two areas?  I think the MSM is a big part of the problem. Its too easy to just go along with the established myths when describing the characteristics of both parties.

 

 

 

While I agree with a lot of your post, the simple fact of the matter, if there was one key factor that led to the GFC, it was Clinton repealing the Glass-Steagall act near the end of his last term.

It allowed the corporations and banks to take bigger and bigger risks with their investments. 

 

Why Roosevelt passed that act was to prevent the banks and others investment organisations from engaging in dodgy behaviour.

 

Obama passed the Dodd-Frank act, which at the time was considered the most far reaching reform of the banking/investment sector, however that act was watered down by trump in 2018 after the reforms to that act passed through both chambers of congress with bi-partisan support.

 

People have short memories at the best of times.

Politicians memories are even shorter.

[Gnarcore]

2 hours ago, Sabrefan1 said:

 

The evangelicals latched onto the Republican party waaay before Trump.  They wanted to bring religion into politics and succeeded.  Trump is just pandering to them like most Republicans before him.

They've been at it for decades. FFS the whole Prayer Breakfast thing is run by 'The Family' a group of Evangelicals with their fingers in politics far beyond what should be. 

[Gnarcore]

2 hours ago, 6of1_halfdozenofother said:

 

And given that he had Jewish heritage, he also sought to exterminate the Jews.

 

Yes, it's beyond weird.  I wonder how long it had been since he last looked at a mirror before he died?

I don't think that has held up to be accurate...but he may very well have been inbred..  

[Sabrefan1]

21 minutes ago, Gnarcore said:

They've been at it for decades. FFS the whole Prayer Breakfast thing is run by 'The Family' a group of Evangelicals with their fingers in politics far beyond what should be. 

 

All religions and major denominations of the religions, at one time or another, have tied themselves to secular power.  Just look at Catholicism.  They did it while Europe was the world's power base.  The more conservative protestant based and splintered offshoots thereof in the US are doing the same thing now.

 

I'm just thankful that there's no familial monarchy for them to latch onto like the Vatican used to do for centuries in Europe. 

 

Trump will use the Christian Conservatives for votes and influence, but the second any of them step out of line, they'll be tossed out until/if he needs them again.

[6of1_halfdozenofother]

30 minutes ago, Gnarcore said:

I don't think that has held up to be accurate...but he may very well have been inbred..  

 

I see that his history has been updated since I last did any reading about him (which has been some years now, high school being quite a distant memory).  Thanks for the correction.

[Gnarcore]

1 minute ago, Sabrefan1 said:

 

All religions and major denominations of the religions, at one time or another, have tied themselves to secular power.  Just look at Catholicism.  They did it while Europe was the world's power base.  The more conservative protestant based and splintered offshoots thereof in the US are doing the same thing now.

 

I'm just thankful that there's no familial monarchy for them to latch onto like the Vatican used to do for centuries in Europe. 

 

Trump will use the Christian Conservatives for votes and influence, but the second any of them step out of line, they'll be tossed out until/if he needs them again.

Well the Catholics weren't really behind the scenes and quiet like 'The Family'...they legit ran that shit in the days of monarchs and weren't shy about it haha

[Gnarcore]

1 minute ago, 6of1_halfdozenofother said:

 

I see that his history has been updated since I last did any reading about him (which has been some years now, high school being quite a distant memory).  Thanks for the correction.

Military and mafia history are two of addictions...but I could be wrong...just recall in some documentary I watched a while back now.  

[Curmudgeon]

1 hour ago, JoeyJoeJoeJr. Shabadoo said:

"The economy does better under Democrats than Republicans" - Donald Trump

 

Bill Clinton won the 1992 election on the slogan, "It's the economy, stupid." G.H.W. Bush had spent four years trying to fix the economy that Reagan left, but under Clinton the economy surged again. Then Dubya drove the debt higher so that Obama inherited an economic disaster, which he successfully addressed. Then Trump decided to give all his rich buddies big tax breaks, driving manufacturing job offshore and increasing the debt to historic levels. Then Biden managed to improve the economy. See a pattern? Bonus points if you got this: "Republican economic policies benefit the wealthy and hammer everybody else, then Democrats spend the bulk of their administration doing economic damage control." This seems axiomatic to most western democracies: that the so-called conservatives who campaign on less regulation, less government spending and small government actually do the opposite in virtually every case.

[nuckin_futz]

 

He's like a drug addict he can't help himself. Same old boring recycled routine. If you're just going to do stand-up instead of policy could you maybe write some new 'jokes'?

 

Really don't think people attending a Bitcoin conference are going to be impressed by this. Especially after he spent the last 4 year shitting all over crypto.

Edited July 28 by nuckin_futz

[stawns]

3 hours ago, Ilunga said:

 

The Nazi party was at its heart a nationalist movement.

 

It was neither a left based movement, nor right.

 

At its inception, it used socialists, in particular the Strasser brothers, to push its message to the lower/middle classes.

Later when Hitler wanted to actually take power he sought the backing of wealthy industrialists who were fearful of the socialists. 

 

Trump is similar in the sense that he is pushing nationalist rhetoric, MAGA, while also demonizing/dehumanising a segment of the population, immigrants.

 

 

 

There were no "left wing" or "right wing" In those days, so you're right I'm that context, though looking through the lems of a  post war world, they exist on the extreme right of the political spectrum.

 

Though many on the right try to pin national socialism on the left, the national socialists weren't socialists.......they were nationalists.  Hitler didn't give a lot of thought to economics and he regarded it as a secondary concern and a mere outreach of the nationalism of Nazi Germany.  

 

Everything in that movement was put the filter of nationalism.  Yes, the nazis did away with many institutions of capitalism and turned that over to the state........but never as way to help the German people and redistributed wealth and power, but as a means of control and power consolidation.