US Politics Thread

[SilentSam]

A Vance /. Shapiro debate would be worth watching too !

 

 

 

 

[6of1_halfdozenofother]

7 minutes ago, Sabrefan1 said:

Hindsight being 20-20, it turns out that helped her rather than hurt her since it ended up giving her a degree of separation from criticism lobbed at Biden on the issue.

 

Even in my own life, I've learned over time that the wisdom of an "old hand" isn't necessarily obvious or visible at the moment, but given adequate time, will become apparent that foresight was in play and that the head-scratching decision(s) of those more experienced people above you took into account what would likely follow, thus resulting in the gains/fruit of the present (and future).  I've had no shortage of questioning my superiors' decisions, only to realize afterwards (sometimes years afterwards) that the direction they chose at that time has resulted in our unit benefitting from that foresight that I didn't have.

 

My new goal is to be able to tap into that kind of foresight as consistently as they did.  I don't know if I'll be able to match (much less exceed) their success rate though.  

[Satchmo]

4 minutes ago, Sabrefan1 said:

 

A VP is all but useless.  They exist for rapid continuity of government in case the worst happens to a POTUS.

 

They can certainly hurt a president though.  Harris' team complained about her being sidelined after the border became an issue. 

 

Hindsight being 20-20, it turns out that helped her rather than hurt her since it ended up giving her a degree of separation from criticism lobbed at Biden on the issue.

All but useless but totally necessary.  Google tells me 8 of them became POTUS by way of the death of a POTUS.  Another 7 ran for, and won, the office.   

[Sabrefan1]

3 minutes ago, Satchmo said:

All but useless but totally necessary.  Google tells me 8 of them became POTUS by way of the death of a POTUS.  Another 7 ran for, and won, the office.   

 

It's great for on the job training.  That's why it is a coveted position.  It gives you instant credibility for your own run.

 

In George Dubya's case though, his VP (Cheney), ran the country more than Dubya did in the first term.  Together, they both managed to plunge the US and the world into the deepest recession since the Great Depression.

[the destroyer of worlds]

3 minutes ago, Sabrefan1 said:

 

It's great for on the job training.  That's why it is a coveted position.  It gives you instant credibility for your own run.

 

In George Dubya's case though, his VP (Cheney), ran the country more than Dubya did in the first term.  Together, they both managed to plunge the US and the world into the deepest recession since the Great Depression.

There is one main duty that can come into play.  VPs cast tiebreaker votes in the Senate.  Confirmation votes being one where a simple majority is needed. 

 

Harris set the record for such votes.  She's cast over 10% of the total such votes that have ever been cast.

[Sabrefan1]

1 minute ago, the destroyer of worlds said:

There is one main duty that can come into play.  VPs cast tiebreaker votes in the Senate.  Confirmation votes being one where a simple majority is needed. 

 

Harris set the record for such votes.  She's cast over 10% of the total such votes that have ever been cast.

 

Agreed, but with only 2 major parties, it's a procedural issue rather than an on-the-job issue. 

 

It will never happen, but one of these days I'd get a kick out of seeing a VP vote against his party on a tie breaker.

 

The closest thing that I've seen in that vein is when John McCain saved Obamacare against a "skinny repeal" as he glared at Moscow Mitch while thumbs downing the bill.

 

 

 

[Sabrefan1]

Supreme Court returns Trump Jan. 6 immunity judgment to lower court

 

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/supreme-court-returns-trump-jan-6-immunity-judgment-to-lower-court/ar-BB1r6Am1?

[Jaimito]

3 hours ago, nuckin_futz said:

 

There is no GOP, there's just Trump and his minions. They say they are totally in favour of legal immigration but reality is another thing. ....

President Trump Reduced Legal Immigration. He Did Not Reduce Illegal Immigration

President Trump entered the White House with the goal of reducing legal immigration by 63 percent. Trump was wildly successful in reducing legal immigration. By November 2020, the Trump administration reduced the number of green cards issued to people abroad by at least 418,453 and the number of non-immigrant visas by at least 11,178,668 during his first term through November 2020. President Trump also entered the White House with the goal of eliminating illegal immigration but Trump oversaw a virtual collapse in interior immigration enforcement and the stabilization of the illegal immigrant population. Thus, Trump succeeded in reduce legal immigration and failed to eliminate illegal immigration.

 

More of the article and some graphs can be found here ........ https://www.cato.org/blog/president-trump-reduced-legal-immigration-he-did-not-reduce-illegal-immigration

 

 

When I applied for greencard via sponsor from my American wife, I got denied.  I can say without a doubt his policies put up more barriers and made things slow. 

 

Ironically, my father in law has connections with GOP and made some phone calls. Got my interview within weeks and approved. 

 

The whole system is fucked up. 

[VegasCanuck]

So, interesting, Anthony Scaramucci thinks that Trump could drop out of this race if polling starts to go really bad in the next 2 weeks and that he would withdraw instead of losing, potentially badly, to a woman.

 

Kind of hints at there might be a back room deal happen where he would drop out if there's an agreement that he gets a pardon for any criminal prosecutions.

 

There might be some of the higher up Republicans who push him to do this so that they can try and recover at some level.

[Bob Long]

8 minutes ago, VegasCanuck said:

So, interesting, Anthony Scaramucci thinks that Trump could drop out of this race if polling starts to go really bad in the next 2 weeks and that he would withdraw instead of losing, potentially badly, to a woman.

 

Kind of hints at there might be a back room deal happen where he would drop out if there's an agreement that he gets a pardon for any criminal prosecutions.

 

There might be some of the higher up Republicans who push him to do this so that they can try and recover at some level.

 

So who would replace him? He's in a weird ego trap, I can't see him dropping out, but he can't handle losing to a brown woman. 

[RupertKBD]

41 minutes ago, VegasCanuck said:

So, interesting, Anthony Scaramucci thinks that Trump could drop out of this race if polling starts to go really bad in the next 2 weeks and that he would withdraw instead of losing, potentially badly, to a woman.

 

Kind of hints at there might be a back room deal happen where he would drop out if there's an agreement that he gets a pardon for any criminal prosecutions.

 

There might be some of the higher up Republicans who push him to do this so that they can try and recover at some level.

 

33 minutes ago, Bob Long said:

So who would replace him? He's in a weird ego trap, I can't see him dropping out, but he can't handle losing to a brown woman. 

 

I'd be surprised if it happened, but it does seem "on brand" for Trump to run away from a fight he thinks he'll lose....He'd likely make up some excuse like health reasons, or wanting to focus on his businesses, or something.....and then claim afterward that he would have won easily, had he stayed in the race....

 

I suppose the Repugs could hold another nominations session, but the only viable candidate IMO, would be Haley.

[Bob Long]

10 minutes ago, RupertKBD said:

 

 

I'd be surprised if it happened, but it does seem "on brand" for Trump to run away from a fight he thinks he'll lose....He'd likely make up some excuse like health reasons, or wanting to focus on his businesses, or something.....and then claim afterward that he would have won easily, had he stayed in the race....

 

I suppose the Repugs could hold another nominations session, but the only viable candidate IMO, would be Haley.

 

I'd be fine with Haley, warts an all. I think a lot of what she said was to throw a bit of red meat to the MAGAs and wouldn't be anything like the orange weirdo. 

 

As much as I doubt it would actually happen, it would be great to see. 

 

[VegasCanuck]

46 minutes ago, Bob Long said:

 

So who would replace him? He's in a weird ego trap, I can't see him dropping out, but he can't handle losing to a brown woman. 

The popular opinion that I heard would be DeSantis. If he drops out, I can't imagine them keeping Vance, the guys a moron and everyone is quickly figuring that out.

 

[Bob Long]

Just now, VegasCanuck said:

The popular opinion that I heard would be DeSantis. If he drops out, I can't imagine them keeping Vance, the guys a moron and everyone is quickly figuring that out.

 

 

they are both morons. DeSlimy would be beaten soundly by Harris imo. 

[Gurn]

56 minutes ago, VegasCanuck said:

ind of hints at there might be a back room deal happen where he would drop out if there's an agreement that he gets a pardon for any criminal prosecutions.

If that happens, they would really put the law into disrepute.

Equal under the law- fuck with that at their own peril.

[bishopshodan]

1 hour ago, VegasCanuck said:

So, interesting, Anthony Scaramucci thinks that Trump could drop out of this race if polling starts to go really bad in the next 2 weeks and that he would withdraw instead of losing, potentially badly, to a woman.

 

Kind of hints at there might be a back room deal happen where he would drop out if there's an agreement that he gets a pardon for any criminal prosecutions.

 

There might be some of the higher up Republicans who push him to do this so that they can try and recover at some level.

 

Even though i doubt it cause he could just say the election is rigged again.

Getting pardoned would be a big incentive. However, that would be very lame if he was pardoned imo.

 

That said, during the debate he said that he was only running this time to save America from another Joe Biden term.  (or something like that)

So, he kinda has an out.

 

 

[VegasCanuck]

11 minutes ago, RupertKBD said:

 

 

I'd be surprised if it happened, but it does seem "on brand" for Trump to run away from a fight he thinks he'll lose....He'd likely make up some excuse like health reasons, or wanting to focus on his businesses, or something.....and then claim afterward that he would have won easily, had he stayed in the race....

 

I suppose the Repugs could hold another nominations session, but the only viable candidate IMO, would be Haley.

There would be some type of incident that requires him leaving the race. Haley I don't think would make a bad President overall, I could totally see them trying to spin something like Haley and DeSantis on a ticket.

 

IF they were to try this, they're time is running out, they would have to do it in the next 2 weeks. Democrat convention is on the 19th. If she is continuing to trend upward next week, she will get a big bounce from that convention. If she chooses running mate wisely, after the whole black journalist thing the other night, that was something that Republicans are going to have a really hard time defending. They lost the black vote completely with that one event and they likely completely lost the independents. They can't win without those 2 segments and there are a LOT of Republicans who have only been tolerating Trump because, like a lot of us felt, Biden is too old to be starting another 4 years and he is definitely showing his age now.

 

Against Biden, Trump can hide his own cognitive issues, but he can't against Harris. Trump will keep pushing to not debate her because she will take him apart and won't even give him all the pieces he would need to put himself back together. It's a no win for him to skip it and it's a no win for him to do it.

 

My personal opinion in looking at this right now, if they go to the polls on Nov 5th with Trump in the Republican drivers seat, it will be a blood bath for him. With the amount of money and the endorsements that Harris is racking up, this could easily be something where Democrats take all the swing States as well as finally crack Texas and Florida. We could see something like the Democrats taking control of Congress and keeping the Senate and walking away with 400+ electoral votes and that's something that Trump can explain away with "It was stolen from me..."

 

I think he's done!

[VegasCanuck]

9 minutes ago, Bob Long said:

 

they are both morons. DeSlimy would be beaten soundly by Harris imo. 

I think so as well. Personally, my biggest problem with him is that he's trying to be Trump instead of just being himself. He's easily enough of an asshole on his own to grab the Republican vote, he doesn't NEED to stretch lol

[VegasCanuck]

13 minutes ago, Gurn said:

If that happens, they would really put the law into disrepute.

Equal under the law- fuck with that at their own peril.

Absolutely, but I can also see the appeal for Biden to accept that type of offer. It would mean that they don't have a repeat of what happened on January 6th, he'd be out of the picture and not filing law suit after law suit trying to overturn the results. They could have a nice, smooth transition between administrations, the way it's supposed to be.

[VegasCanuck]

8 minutes ago, bishopshodan said:

 

Even though i doubt it cause he could just say the election is rigged again.

Getting pardoned would be a big incentive. However, that would be very lame if he was pardoned imo.

 

That said, during the debate he said that he was only running this time to save America from another Joe Biden term.  (or something like that)

So, he kinda has an out.

 

 

Everyone knows that he's running so he can pardon himself. He has no interest in being back doing the actual job.

 

Did you see how he walked out on the stage the other night at the Black Journalist convention? He looked and moved like he was old and was out of gas. Then he sat down and just insulted everyone which is what he does.

 

He can't hide his dementia in front of crowds.

[Gurn]

Just now, VegasCanuck said:

Absolutely, but I can also see the appeal for Biden to accept that type of offer. It would mean that they don't have a repeat of what happened on January 6th, he'd be out of the picture and not filing law suit after law suit trying to overturn the results. They could have a nice, smooth transition between administrations, the way it's supposed to be.

Can Joe pardon someone from something they have not been convicted of, or just the stuff that's been decided on?

Might get a deal on the 'solved' stuff but not the upcoming stuff.?

 

" I'll take;  things a constitutional lawyer can solve for $600 please, Alex"

[VegasCanuck]

Biden cares more about the country than he does the Presidency. If he could issue a pardon in exchange for Trump drifting into oblivion, I don't think he would hesitate to do it. It could save additional lives in the transition.

[VegasCanuck]

1 minute ago, Gurn said:

Can Joe pardon someone from something they have not been convicted of, or just the stuff that's been decided on?

Might get a deal on the 'solved' stuff but not the upcoming stuff.?

 

" I'll take;  things a constitutional lawyer can solve for $600 please, Alex"

yes, was done with Nixon. New President issued a pre-emptive pardon for him so that he would never be charged. 

 

Problem for Trump is, I'm not sure that Biden could issue a pardon that would cover Georgia as that's a State level matter and I'm not even sure that he could pardon him for the charges he's already been convicted of in NY. He could however ask in the interest of country peace and healing that NY agrees to just do probation or something not involving prison, nice fine etc and he could request that Georgia drop their prosecution against him at least. That doesn't mean they need to do it though.

[bishopshodan]

5 minutes ago, VegasCanuck said:

Everyone knows that he's running so he can pardon himself. He has no interest in being back doing the actual job.

 

Did you see how he walked out on the stage the other night at the Black Journalist convention? He looked and moved like he was old and was out of gas. Then he sat down and just insulted everyone which is what he does.

 

He can't hide his dementia in front of crowds.

 

Sure. I bet pardons and revenge are high on his list. 

 

I dont put it past his ego though to be actually running to become the last POTUS.

He can then hand down the crown to one of his kids, probably the pretty lady one. 

[the destroyer of worlds]

I think they would fall into the same issue that the Dems were in.  The campaign funds could only really go to Vance.  Any other candidate would have a severe financial issue funding a POTUS campaign.

 

There are also deadline issues for ballots as it is likely that TRUMPs name has already been submitted by the RNC as their candidate.