US Politics Thread

[stawns]

26 minutes ago, Joe King said:

 

 

He was found not criminally responsible because he was in the midst of a severe schizophrenic episode.  He believes the deceased was an alien demon who needed to be destroyed......both the defense AND prosection agreed he needed treatment instead of prison and he was assigned to a mental institution for treatment.

 

 

Hr received medication to control his schizophrenia as well as counselling to learn how to manage it.  He responded very well to treatment and was gradually given more and more treatment until his release in 2015.  Since then he has lived a quiet, clean life.

 

The killing of Tim Maclean was awful, but our justice system is built on rehabilitation not punishment and, aside from the death of Tim Maclean, I'd consider this a success story.

Edited August 4 by stawns

[Joe King]

8 minutes ago, stawns said:

 

Because he was found not criminally responsible because he was in the midst of a severe schizophrenic episode.  He believes the deceased was an alien demon who needed to be destroyed......both the defense AND prosection agreed he needed treatment instead of prison and he was assigned to a mental institution for treatment.

 

 

Hr received medication to control his schizophrenia as well as counselling to learn how to manage it.  He responded very well to treatment and was gradually given more and more treatment until his release in 2015.  Since then he has lived a quiet, clean life.

 

The killing of Tim Maclean was awful, but our justice system is built on rehabilitation not punishment and, aside from the death of Tim Maclean, I'd consider this a success story.

I watched a documentary on this incident. No trial,no prison time. The parents never got any chance to release their anger or frustration. On top of that he received a new identity,and free money. I'm pretty sure they don't think that's a good system. Can you honestly tell me you would think it's a good system if it were your child in the place of the victim.

Edited August 4 by Joe King

[NewbieCanuckFan]

Just now, Joe King said:

I watched a documentary on this incident. No trial,no prison time. The parents never got any chance to release their anger or frustration. On top of that he received a new identity,and free money. I'm pretty sure they don't think that's a good system. Can you honestly tell me you would think it's a good system if it were you child in the place of the victim.

Misleading in that most criminal cases involve plea bargaining which removes the need for a trial.  Not stating right or wrong (only the facts).

[Joe King]

6 minutes ago, NewbieCanuckFan said:

Misleading in that most criminal cases involve plea bargaining which removes the need for a trial.  Not stating right or wrong (only the facts).

My comment was in reply to a comment stating that the system is working. After watching the documentary on this incident I would say it did not work well for the victim and his family.

Worked out great for the murderer. Just my thoughts, no one here has to agree with them.

[NewbieCanuckFan]

12 minutes ago, Joe King said:

My comment was in reply to a comment stating that the system is working. After watching the documentary on this incident I would say it did not work well for the victim and his family.

Worked out great for the murderer. Just my thoughts, no one here has to agree with them.

Fair enough.   Sorry if my reply was a bit snarky (wasn't my original intention).

 

Peace.

[Sabrefan1]

1 hour ago, stawns said:

 

I think you are forgetting that the current version of the Repugs have no intention to compromise or have a functional government.  In fact, their intention is to bring government to a halt so that they can point and say "see, it doesn't work".  

 

Imo, they should have any type of power to do anything.

 

The only time they've tried that tactic in the past is with spending bills.  It's always come back to hurt them in the next election.  Only the far right bloc in the House wants to keep trying to play that game.  Moscow Mitch can no longer participate in that game in the Senate and fortunately he'll be gone in 2 years.

[Joe King]

3 minutes ago, NewbieCanuckFan said:

Fair enough.   Sorry if my reply was a bit snarky (wasn't my original intention).

 

Peace.

No worries. I get a bit worked up sometimes. I just really feel for victims and their families.

 

[Sabrefan1]

1 hour ago, NewbieCanuckFan said:

heh, the only reason you guys have the 22nd Amendment is because the GOP got tired of losing to FDR.  Then, there was serious talk about repealing that Amendment when the Dems couldn't beat Reagan.

 

It took the Democrats to agree to it or it never would have passed.  They knew a Republican version of FDR was coming sooner or later.

 

Nancy Reagan was running the US for the lame duck part of Reagan's 2nd term.  I'm always amazed at how well they kept that a secret.

[Sabrefan1]

1 hour ago, Boudrias said:

Am I wrong but it appears Trump attendance numbers aren’t what they were. Maybe his rambling isn’t selling like it used too.

 

If you mean since the  time that he did them in arenas, definitely.  That's what happens when you stiff people on money that you owe them.

 

Most people don't want to stand for hours in the middle of whatever tract of land Trump could scrounge up for free.

 

That and MAGA has likely shrunk since he lost the last election.  They'll dissipate altogether either after this coming November or in 4 years.

[Bob Long]

21 minutes ago, Joe King said:

No worries. I get a bit worked up sometimes. I just really feel for victims and their families.

 

 

Of course, how could you not?

 

It's tough tho, if it's truly a case of uncontrollable mental illness in that moment, i don't know how jail is the answer.

[4petesake]

2 hours ago, stawns said:

 

I tend to look at that, more, as our system working.  

 

Every time I forget not to generalize and use words like “everyone” it bites me in the ass…

[SilentSam]

Mary Trump :

 

”After eight years of covering Donald, too many journalists have gotten into the habit of seeing strategy in his crude and instinctive behavior. The truth is quite simple--Donald can’t help himself. When it comes to him, we shouldn’t overthink it. He is exactly what he seems: a racist, a misogynist, a liar. He is a bully who has no business getting anywhere near the White House. His pulling out of the debate should remind us that he is also a monumental coward.”

 

[RupertKBD]

1 hour ago, Sabrefan1 said:

It took the Democrats to agree to it or it never would have passed.  They knew a Republican version of FDR was coming sooner or later.

 

Nancy Reagan was running the US for the lame duck part of Reagan's 2nd term.  I'm always amazed at how well they kept that a secret.

 

I'm not so sure they did...

 

DC Follies did a bit on Ronnie's advancing dementia in one of their episodes. The scene is, Regan wants to watch TV and calls in one of his Secret Service guys:

 

"What can I do for you sir?"

"I'm trying to watch TV, but it isn't working!" (while pointing the remote and clicking repeatedly)

"Uhhhhh sir....that's the air conditioner...."

"What?! On both channels?"

[RupertKBD]

22 minutes ago, SilentSam said:

Mary Trump :

 

”After eight years of covering Donald, too many journalists have gotten into the habit of seeing strategy in his crude and instinctive behavior. The truth is quite simple--Donald can’t help himself. When it comes to him, we shouldn’t overthink it. He is exactly what he seems: a racist, a misogynist, a liar. He is a bully who has no business getting anywhere near the White House. His pulling out of the debate should remind us that he is also a monumental coward.”

 

 

Mary has the right of it.....it bugs me to no end when people say "he's playing 4D chess", or "crazy like a fox", or "a genius at messaging" etc....

 

He's none of those things.

 

He's discovered that his brand of bluster and bullshit appeals to the baser elements of American society, so he leans into it. That base, plus other elements that he's willing to pander to, (Evangelicals, gun lobby, big business, etc) are enough to make him a competitive candidate....but there is no grand strategy....Trump is doing what he always does....winging it.

 

When it works out, he brags about it and when it doesn't work out, he finds someone else to blame for it....That's the "strategy" in a nutshell.

 

 

[stawns]

1 hour ago, Joe King said:

My comment was in reply to a comment stating that the system is working. After watching the documentary on this incident I would say it did not work well for the victim and his family.

Worked out great for the murderer. Just my thoughts, no one here has to agree with them.

 

I doubt any would argue that.........that's the nature of being a victim of violent crime I think. 

 

However, I think you can have both full empathy for the victims family and still have empathy for the preparator, who was in a complete and total disassociation from reality and then feel good that he got the help he needed and is living a productive, peaceful life.  They don't have to be mutually exclusive.

 

I find that many, most, people think of empathy as being finite........that to give some to one person means you have to take it away from another.  I think you should have empathy for everyone

[stawns]

3 minutes ago, RupertKBD said:

 

Mary has the right of it.....it bugs me to no end when people say "he's playing 4D chess", or "crazy like a fox", or "a genius at messaging" etc....

 

He's none of those things.

 

He's discovered that his brand of bluster and bullshit appeals to the baser elements of American society, so he leans into it. That base, plus other elements that he's willing to pander to, (Evangelicals, gun lobby, big business, etc) are enough to make him a competitive candidate....but there is no grand strategy....Trump is doing what he always does....winging it.

 

When it works out, he brags about it and when it doesn't work out, he finds someone else to blame for it....That's the "strategy" in a nutshell.

 

 

 

He's a conman, full stop.  Everything he does falls into that definition, imo.

[SilentSam]

 

Good go see more and more True Republicans realizing they can accomplish more by stepping away from MAGA ,and Defend the American Constitution by creating strong alliances in bi-partisan politics ,  than to have a possible President in Disguise leading their party.

 

The Republican party will be destroyed by Trump if he gets in for another term.

 

Trump will try to be King..  “no one will ever have to vote again” ,

   and the USA ,

   will have a New “Red Coat King “ dismantling its Country by committing crimes protected by “Executive Privilege”.

 

There are “Judges” in the SCOTUS who need to answer important questions to decisions and rulings they have made.

 

       They themselves seem not to understand the Crack they have delivered to their Country .

 

 

In a more poetic definition,

Perhaps the “Crack “ in the Bell of Liberty is 

a foretold story  of the consistent powers that try to break Democracy .

 

   ..   time and lessons allows us to create better designs, whether they be structural or metallurgical. 
     
     But one left alone for so long without protections or changing ,  ultimately allows “time” to find a way to destroy it .

 

 

 

 

 

“It's not until the 1830s that the old State House bell would begin to take on significance as a symbol of liberty. No one recorded when or why the Liberty Bell first cracked, but the most likely explanation is that a narrow split developed in the early 1840s after nearly 90 years of hard use.”

 

 

[SilentSam]

So much finger pointing to Hunter Bidens Laptop,

                Creating  Diversion,  of course.

 

 

[Joe King]

57 minutes ago, stawns said:

 

I doubt any would argue that.........that's the nature of being a victim of violent crime I think. 

 

However, I think you can have both full empathy for the victims family and still have empathy for the preparator, who was in a complete and total disassociation from reality and then feel good that he got the help he needed and is living a productive, peaceful life.  They don't have to be mutually exclusive.

 

I find that many, most, people think of empathy as being finite........that to give some to one person means you have to take it away from another.  I think you should have empathy for everyone

Your a better person than I am.

I have empathy for the victim and family. A murderer not so much.

And would you feel this way if the victim were your child?

I'm going to drop this now I don't want to derail this thread.

Edited August 4 by Joe King

[6of1_halfdozenofother]

10 hours ago, Sabrefan1 said:

 

Like every other former president, he'll fade away once he can no longer be elected to office.  His NY case will likely be the only thing waiting for him that will keep his name going, and that may eventually be abandoned if he gets into office again.

 

The world, including all of his sycophants, will move on without him as soon as he is powerless.  Faux News will drag him onto their airwaves on occasion until he passes, but I can ignore those clips on YouTube.

 

 

 

Only a super majority of Congress along with a super majority of states has that power.  Or a constitutional convention, but that still requires a super majority of states.

 

The Dictator Trump talk is a scare tactic used by those who don't want him in the White House.

 

I think you're underestimating the staying power of a cult, but on this I think we'll need to agree to disagree. 

[Satchmo]

7 minutes ago, Joe King said:

Your a better person than I am.

I have empathy for the victim and family. A murderer not so much.

And would you feel this way if the victim were your child?

I'm going to drop this now I don't want to derail this thread.

Justice is justice.  Revenge is revenge. Never should the twain meet.

[stawns]

57 minutes ago, Joe King said:

Your a better person than I am.

I have empathy for the victim and family. A murderer not so much.

And would you feel this way if the victim were your child?

I'm going to drop this now I don't want to derail this thread.

 

I would feel empathy for the person as he was going through something horrific, completely out of his control 

 

I was a victim of childhood sexual abuse and have empathy for my abuser because he was certainly a victim at one as well.  

 

I don't believe in good or evil, but that (most) horrible things that done by people can be traced back to something that happened to them.

[stawns]

1 hour ago, SilentSam said:

So much finger pointing to Hunter Bidens Laptop,

                Creating  Diversion,  of course.

 

 

 

Isn't that the hubbub over Hillary's emails were about,?

[D.B Cooper]

4 hours ago, stawns said:

 

He was found not criminally responsible because he was in the midst of a severe schizophrenic episode.  He believes the deceased was an alien demon who needed to be destroyed......both the defense AND prosection agreed he needed treatment instead of prison and he was assigned to a mental institution for treatment.

 

 

Hr received medication to control his schizophrenia as well as counselling to learn how to manage it.  He responded very well to treatment and was gradually given more and more treatment until his release in 2015.  Since then he has lived a quiet, clean life.

 

The killing of Tim Maclean was awful, but our justice system is built on rehabilitation not punishment and, aside from the death of Tim Maclean, I'd consider this a success story.

This is the first time I e heard anyone with this take on that situation, and it’s pretty fucking wild IMO.  
 

Him getting out is a huge skid mark on the underpants of our nation.  
 

After his treatment in a hospital, he should have been moved to a prison to live out the rest of his life. 
 

Was he mentally rehabbed?

Yes?   Sure let him out of the hospital.  
Did he cut a persons fucking head off? 
Yup!   Crazy or not, he did it. 
He needs to be locked up for life. 
That whole thing was a sad fucking disaster. 
That poor kid and his family.  
 

Im absolutely shocked to hear someone say his release is a success of our system.  
That’s absolutely wild. 

[D.B Cooper]

2 hours ago, stawns said:

 

I doubt any would argue that.........that's the nature of being a victim of violent crime I think. 

 

However, I think you can have both full empathy for the victims family and still have empathy for the preparator, who was in a complete and total disassociation from reality and then feel good that he got the help he needed and is living a productive, peaceful life.  They don't have to be mutually exclusive.

 

I find that many, most, people think of empathy as being finite........that to give some to one person means you have to take it away from another.  I think you should have empathy for everyone

Do you have empathy for Hitler?  
What about Putin?  
How about that doctor that is jail for raping hundreds of underage girls?  
Empathy for them?   
Why?  
What have they done to earn anything but disdain and hatred? 

I think empathy is a great default to start most people off with. 
BUT

It can be taken away, and I think cutting off some poor kids fucking head on a bus is grounds for getting it taken away.  
That seems fair.