US Politics Thread

[Sabrefan1]

7 minutes ago, JoeyJoeJoeJr. Shabadoo said:

Do you have a link for that?

 

 

Here's a quote from the Canadian link...

 

Quote

The reasons are different in Canada than the United States, but they both stem from the highly-regulated nature of the marketplace.

In the United States, the primary regulations are high-level price-fixing, bans on selling unpasteurized milk (which means farmers have to dump their product if dairy processors don’t buy it), and “price gouging” laws that prevent retailers from increasing prices when demand is low, which incentivizes hoarding.

 

In Canada, the regulations are even worse.

 

While the price-fixing scheme for milk in the US is incredibly complicated and leaves much to be desired—there’s an old industry adage that says “only five people in the world know how milk is priced in the US and four of them are dead”—in Canada the price is determined by a single bureaucracy: the Canadian Dairy Commission.

 

[Optimist Prime]

1 hour ago, Bob Long said:

 

The small "ethnic" places are such great deals for going out, I don't know why someone would go to the keg eg over Banana Leaf. 

Syrianna in Esquimalt on the Island is amazing and incredibly authentique with our own entrepreneur who only came from Syria itself about 12 years ago. 
The shawarma is on point if you ask for lemon slices inside the wrap with the chicken. They did it originally like that and the locals complained about rind, hahaha.  

[Optimist Prime]

1 hour ago, Ilunga said:

 

I can't be bothered posting the links.

 

However a quick bit of research illustrates that roughly 1 in 6 kids in the US, Australia and Canada live in/below the poverty line. 

Uncanny how the figures are virtually the same in our societies.

 

Why I bring up kids is they don't make choices that result in this situation.

 

They are, in this case, the victims, of the choices/decisions made by so called adults. 

 

 

100%

[Gnarcore]

1 hour ago, Elias Pettersson said:

McDonald’s was just an example of rampant inflation. There are many others. 
 

If you are shopping at discount stores to save money, then those same discount stores were also a lot cheaper 10 years ago. So that is not a fair comparison at all. You need to compare an apple to another apple to gauge inflation. 
 

At the end of the day, all that matters to the average person is food, shelter and gas. There is no denying that all of those things have gone up well above the supposed 3% inflation we currently have. 

The regular menus at McDonalds went up to the point of why would you bother...and their declining sales show people feel that way. 

For fast food the Popeyes combos are actually solid prices. 

[Gnarcore]

1 hour ago, Elias Pettersson said:

So how much were those 5 nice sized strip loins 10 years ago at the same place you bought them today?  Compare an apple to an apple. You don’t think there were discount deals 10 years ago?

Not much less actually. Don't get me wrong many things at that same store have gone up significantly just like every other grocery store Pattison runs. They forced a supplier change on them all...the variety and quality of product went to shit too. But that wasn't the point of my post...it was to shop and load up when deals hit.  

Or go to Costco...it is going up there too but still a by far better option for so many things. 

[Ilunga]

40 minutes ago, NewbieCanuckFan said:

Isn't "Soylent Green" real meat?

 

Fantastic movie.

 

I had a soylent green image as my avatar on the old board years ago. 

[JoeyJoeJoeJr. Shabadoo]

32 minutes ago, Sabrefan1 said:

 

Here's a post-COVID link, but they were doing it even before COVID.

 

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2023-07-11/milk-oversupply-has-us-farmers-in-the-midwest-dumping-it-in-the-sewer

Do you have one that says farmers are dumping milk to keep prices high?

[Sabrefan1]

9 minutes ago, JoeyJoeJoeJr. Shabadoo said:

Do you have one that says farmers are dumping milk to keep prices high?

 

It mentions the price controls in the Canadian market link.  It's also in the quote that I posted.

[Sabrefan1]

11 minutes ago, JoeyJoeJoeJr. Shabadoo said:

Do you have one that says farmers are dumping milk to keep prices high?

 

Here's that quote again for ya...

 

 

Quote

The reasons are different in Canada than the United States, but they both stem from the highly-regulated nature of the marketplace.

In the United States, the primary regulations are high-level price-fixing, bans on selling unpasteurized milk (which means farmers have to dump their product if dairy processors don’t buy it), and “price gouging” laws that prevent retailers from increasing prices when demand is low, which incentivizes hoarding.

 

In Canada, the regulations are even worse.

 

While the price-fixing scheme for milk in the US is incredibly complicated and leaves much to be desired—there’s an old industry adage that says “only five people in the world know how milk is priced in the US and four of them are dead”—in Canada the price is determined by a single bureaucracy: the Canadian Dairy Commission.

 

[Elias Pettersson]

59 minutes ago, 24K said:

We have to analyze based on information we have, not some hypotheticals. 

 

Once again, why you so mad at Harris for this which help average middle class while dead silent on Trump's tax cut that overwhelmingly help the rich and corporations and cost the same in less time. 

Where did I even mention Trump or his tax cuts?  That was you not me. Harris is currently the Vice President. Isn’t she currently responsible for today’s economy?  Or are you throwing Joe under the bus again?  
 

If the economy is so good right now then why does Kamala need to help the middle class?  Isn’t she supposedly doing that right now?  Why wasn’t her current version of the budget implemented 4 years ago?  Can you explain that?  

[Sabrefan1]

14 minutes ago, JoeyJoeJoeJr. Shabadoo said:

Do you have one that says farmers are dumping milk to keep prices high?

 

Oh.  I just understood what you're getting at.  In that quote and in the article, it's basically saying that farmers are having to dump milk and reduce herd size because of government regulations and price vs. cost pressures.

 

The farmers aren't doing it out of greed if that's what you're thinking.

[24K]

3 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:

Where did I even mention Trump or his tax cuts?  That was you not me. Harris is currently the Vice President. Isn’t she currently responsible for today’s economy?  Or are you throwing Joe under the bus again?  
 

Stop moving the goal post. Your original comment was how bad it is for Harris to add 1.7 trillion (you overstated to 2 trillion) woth her plan. I pointed out how Trump did the same if not more so and yet I don't see you being angry at that. 

 

I am calling out on your hypocrisy and blatant partisanship. 

 

Also I am throwing Biden under the bus. He is president not Harris. Harris does not have a say in Biden's economic plan. She can try to influence him but end of the day, it is Biden's call. 

 

The VP is the most powerless prestigious job in DC. 

 

Also not to mention the budget is congress to pass. When the Dem still have control of the house, they passed the IRA which like it or not did do the job of reducing inflation. Now it is not enough obviously and this is why Harris is proposing these measures, but guess what even if Harris had any power to try to pass these initiatives, the house is controlled by the GOP so no chance of that happening. 

 

This is also why when Harris communicate these ideas, she made sure she said 'when we have control of the senate' cause she can't do anything on these without congress. 

 

3 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:

If the economy is so good right now then why does Kamala need to help the middle class?  Isn’t she supposedly doing that right now?  Why wasn’t her current version of the budget implemented 4 years ago?  Can you explain that?  

Moving the goal post again. 

 

When people say economy is good, it means the macro economical data is good. Now that doesn't mean real wage growth have caught up with earlier inflation hence these proposals. 

 

Love I said, Harris don't have that power and second they did pass IRA and turned out they need to do more. Problem again is Biden does not have control of congress. 

 

The President does not have dictatorial power that can overwrite congress, at least as long as Trump does not win in November, let along VP that has less power than an average Joe congressman. 

 

That is what I find fascinating with you conservatives, you guys always think the president or pm have dictoriall power and can overwrite congress/parliament. 

[Elias Pettersson]

2 minutes ago, 24K said:

Stop moving the goal post. Your original comment was how bad it is for Harris to add 1.7 trillion (you overstated to 2 trillion) woth her plan. I pointed out how Trump did the same if not more so and yet I don't see you being angry at that. 

 

I am calling out on your hypocrisy and blatant partisanship. 

 

Also I am throwing Biden under the bus. He is president not Harris. Harris does not have a say in Biden's economic plan. She can try to influence him but end of the day, it is Biden's call. 

 

The VP is the most powerless prestigious job in DC. 

 

Also not to mention the budget is congress to pass. When the Dem still have control of the house, they passed the IRA which like it or not did do the job of reducing inflation. Now it is not enough obviously and this is why Harris is proposing these measures, but guess what even if Harris had any power to try to pass these initiatives, the house is controlled by the GOP so no chance of that happening. 

 

This is also why when Harris communicate these ideas, she made sure she said 'when we have control of the senate' cause she can't do anything on these without congress. 

 

Moving the goal post again. 

 

When people say economy is good, it means the macro economical data is good. Now that doesn't mean real wage growth have caught up with earlier inflation hence these proposals. 

 

Love I said, Harris don't have that power and second they did pass IRA and turned out they need to do more. Problem again is Biden does not have control of congress. 

 

The President does not have dictatorial power that can overwrite congress, at least as long as Trump does not win in November, let along VP that has less power than an average Joe congressman. 

 

That is what I find fascinating with you conservatives, you guys always think the president or pm have dictoriall power and can overwrite congress/parliament. 

At least you are being honest about throwing Joe under the bus. Most Democrats feel he has done a great job. Some even think he’s one of the greatest President’s ever. But according to you, we need Kamala to change everything up. Very interesting point of view. 

[Ilunga]

11 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:

Where did I even mention Trump or his tax cuts?  That was you not me. Harris is currently the Vice President. Isn’t she currently responsible for today’s economy?  Or are you throwing Joe under the bus again?  
 

If the economy is so good right now then why does Kamala need to help the middle class?  Isn’t she supposedly doing that right now?  Why wasn’t her current version of the budget implemented 4 years ago?  Can you explain that?  

 

Higher than normal inflation for the last few years is something that is affecting nearly all countries. 

It's not just dictated by the economic policies of the different governments/ political affiliation, in different countries. 

People over here in Aus seem to hold the reserve bank more responsible for high interest rates/ high inflation than they do the government. 

 

I have been saying for decades, our economic systems are like a house of cards.

One decent " gust of wind " and the whole thing collapses. 

 

Seriously Elias what do you believe the result will be when you transfer so much wealth from the " bottom- middle " to the " top "

 

https://www.reuters.com/business/pandemic-boosts-super-rich-share-global-wealth-2021-12-07/

 

 

 

 

[24K]

5 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:

At least you are being honest about throwing Joe under the bus. Most Democrats feel he has done a great job. Some even think he’s one of the greatest President’s ever. But according to you, we need Kamala to change everything up. Very interesting point of view. 

To be clear I am throwing Biden under the bus for different reasons(Gaza). 

 

Biden did do a lot of good things and will be remembered as one of the best 1 term president in history. When it come to the economy, he did many good things and should be given credit for having the best economy in the world post covid. However, that doesn't mean he has done enough and now even if he want to, Biden does not have the house to allow him to maneuver let along Harris. 

[Spur1]

Harris = stability 

Trump = chaos. 
Your choice not my country. 

[stawns]

20 minutes ago, 24K said:

Stop moving the goal post. Your original comment was how bad it is for Harris to add 1.7 trillion (you overstated to 2 trillion) woth her plan. I pointed out how Trump did the same if not more so and yet I don't see you being angry at that. 

 

I am calling out on your hypocrisy and blatant partisanship. 

 

Also I am throwing Biden under the bus. He is president not Harris. Harris does not have a say in Biden's economic plan. She can try to influence him but end of the day, it is Biden's call. 

 

The VP is the most powerless prestigious job in DC. 

 

Also not to mention the budget is congress to pass. When the Dem still have control of the house, they passed the IRA which like it or not did do the job of reducing inflation. Now it is not enough obviously and this is why Harris is proposing these measures, but guess what even if Harris had any power to try to pass these initiatives, the house is controlled by the GOP so no chance of that happening. 

 

This is also why when Harris communicate these ideas, she made sure she said 'when we have control of the senate' cause she can't do anything on these without congress. 

 

Moving the goal post again. 

 

When people say economy is good, it means the macro economical data is good. Now that doesn't mean real wage growth have caught up with earlier inflation hence these proposals. 

 

Love I said, Harris don't have that power and second they did pass IRA and turned out they need to do more. Problem again is Biden does not have control of congress. 

 

The President does not have dictatorial power that can overwrite congress, at least as long as Trump does not win in November, let along VP that has less power than an average Joe congressman. 

 

That is what I find fascinating with you conservatives, you guys always think the president or pm have dictoriall power and can overwrite congress/parliament. 

 

And the POTUS can have whatever economic plan they want, but there's three branches of government and they all have responsibility for the economy 

[JoeyJoeJoeJr. Shabadoo]

1 minute ago, Sabrefan1 said:

 

Oh.  I just understood what you're getting at.  In that quote and in the article, it's basically saying that farmers are having to dump milk and reduce herd size because of government regulations and price vs. cost pressures.

 

The farmers aren't doing it out of greed if that's what you're thinking.

Maybe I'm not sure what you were trying to infer in your op. It sounded like you were insinuating that farmers were dumping milk in a nefarious plot by the dairy industry to keep prices high. I was just wondering if you had any evidence that this was happening for the stated reasons. I see now it was more of a metaphor for your cynicism of the dairy industry in general. 

 

As far as the milk dumping goes, from what I've read, because of the volatile nature of the product, cold storage and quick processing are required, and as such, fluctuations in the market can result in bottlenecks. With nowhere to store or process the milk it must be destroyed. For the most part, this phenomenon appears to be an unfortunate consequence of producing a product beholden to an adequate supply chain. Especially tough in a pandemic I'd imagine. 

 

 

 

 

[Elias Pettersson]

5 minutes ago, 24K said:

To be clear I am throwing Biden under the bus for different reasons(Gaza). 

 

Biden did do a lot of good things and will be remembered as one of the best 1 term president in history. When it come to the economy, he did many good things and should be given credit for having the best economy in the world post covid. However, that doesn't mean he has done enough and now even if he want to, Biden does not have the house to allow him to maneuver let along Harris. 

Joe was the nominee up until 2 months ago. I don’t recall anyone in this thread saying his policies needed to be changed. Everyone was totally fine moving forward with Joe as President for 4 more years. 
 

Now after the Democrats threw him off to the side like a slab of beef, suddenly Kamala is now going to fix everything. Suddenly Joe didn’t do enough and Kamala has to fix things. Interesting take indeed. 
 

And at least you acknowledge that the President can’t do anything without Congress, which is true. So the Democrats will need to win the House in order to accomplish anything. If not, Kamala’s new budget will be filled with PORK to appease the Republicans. And that $2 trillion will become $4 trillion. 
 

Also, has Kamala said anything different about what she would do about Gaza?  

[Sabrefan1]

1 minute ago, JoeyJoeJoeJr. Shabadoo said:

Maybe I'm not sure what you were trying to infer in your op. It sounded like you were insinuating that farmers were dumping milk in a nefarious plot by the dairy industry to keep prices high. I was just wondering if you had any evidence that this was happening for the stated reasons. I see now it was more of a metaphor for your cynicism of the dairy industry in general. 

 

As far as the milk dumping goes, from what I've read, because of the volatile nature of the product, cold storage and quick processing are required, and as such, fluctuations in the market can result in bottlenecks. With nowhere to store or process the milk it must be destroyed. For the most part, this phenomenon appears to be an unfortunate consequence of producing a product beholden to an adequate supply chain. Especially tough in a pandemic I'd imagine.

 

Sorry if I was unclear in my original post. 

 

The dairy industry in both the US and Canada is horribly beset with government regulation.  The parts in your second paragraph are just aggravating factors on top of it all.

 

Dairy is highly regulated out of the fear that companies could and would use any means to get a stranglehold on a staple food.  All of the milk that ends up having to get wasted as a result could be used to create surplus foods to feed people who are starving.  So instead of just buying up the extra production and feeding hungry people, we spend money on keeping the industry regulated out of fear of the bad side of human nature.

 

There was a time when the government actually would give the poor and hungry, wheels of government cheese.  Now people are given food cards to buy unhealthy processed foods.

[Sabrefan1]

14 minutes ago, JoeyJoeJoeJr. Shabadoo said:

Maybe I'm not sure what you were trying to infer in your op. It sounded like you were insinuating that farmers were dumping milk in a nefarious plot by the dairy industry to keep prices high. I was just wondering if you had any evidence that this was happening for the stated reasons. I see now it was more of a metaphor for your cynicism of the dairy industry in general. 

 

As far as the milk dumping goes, from what I've read, because of the volatile nature of the product, cold storage and quick processing are required, and as such, fluctuations in the market can result in bottlenecks. With nowhere to store or process the milk it must be destroyed. For the most part, this phenomenon appears to be an unfortunate consequence of producing a product beholden to an adequate supply chain. Especially tough in a pandemic I'd imagine.

 

 

Oh, I should also mention that things aren't as cut and dry as just letting farmers flood the market with all of the milk that they want to.  Jimmy Carter found that out the hard way and that's how the huge stockpiling of government cheese in the 80's began.

 

Oddly enough dairy economics is more complicated than you'd think.

[24K]

4 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:

Joe was the nominee up until 2 months ago. I don’t recall anyone in this thread saying his policies needed to be changed. Everyone was totally fine moving forward with Joe as President for 4 more years. 
 

I would not call it change. It is build upon. I explicitly said not done enough. I did not say pivot. Biden message at the time was still finish the job. 

 

Nothing Harris suggested indicate a pivot from Biden economic policy but rather build upon. What Biden really do suck at is messaging. 

 

4 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:

Now after the Democrats threw him off to the side like a slab of beef, suddenly Kamala is now going to fix everything. Suddenly Joe didn’t do enough and Kamala has to fix things. Interesting take indeed. 
 

Once again, I never said fix everything, I said Biden did not do enough and Harris will need to build upon it. Fix indicates failure, Biden did not fail, he did not get there fast enough. Prove already in the pudding with clear downward trend of inflation. Issue is people still feel the gap between earnings and inflated prices with real wage growth not having caught up just yet. Real wage growth is going up to be clear. 

 

4 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:

And at least you acknowledge that the President can’t do anything without Congress, which is true. So the Democrats will need to win the House in order to accomplish anything. If not, Kamala’s new budget will be filled with PORK to appease the Republicans. And that $2 trillion will become $4 trillion. 
 

You have to judge by what is proposed not some hypothetical bs. So I guess whatever Trump proposes you can also slap another $2 trillions to it cause GOP ain't winning the house either. 

 

4 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:

Also, has Kamala said anything different about what she would do about Gaza?  

She is still VP so have to tow the administration line in foreign affairs. Her tone is a shift from Biden's cuddling of Israel. 

 

.....

 

Wait a sec, you dodged the question again and moved the goal post. 

 

I'll give you credit, you really did drag me to your level and beat me with experience. 

[Elias Pettersson]

12 minutes ago, 24K said:

I would not call it change. It is build upon. I explicitly said not done enough. I did not say pivot. Biden message at the time was still finish the job. 

 

Nothing Harris suggested indicate a pivot from Biden economic policy but rather build upon. What Biden really do suck at is messaging. 

 

Once again, I never said fix everything, I said Biden did not do enough and Harris will need to build upon it. Fix indicates failure, Biden did not fail, he did not get there fast enough. Prove already in the pudding with clear downward trend of inflation. Issue is people still feel the gap between earnings and inflated prices with real wage growth not having caught up just yet. Real wage growth is going up to be clear. 

 

You have to judge by what is proposed not some hypothetical bs. So I guess whatever Trump proposes you can also slap another $2 trillions to it cause GOP ain't winning the house either. 

 

She is still VP so have to tow the administration line in foreign affairs. Her tone is a shift from Biden's cuddling of Israel. 

 

.....

 

Wait a sec, you dodged the question again and moved the goal post. 

 

I'll give you credit, you really did drag me to your level and beat me with experience. 

Haha, I’m usually able to drag people UP to my level not down. I think you’ve shot up at least two levels trying to debate me. Congratulations!!  

 

 

[Elias Pettersson]

1 hour ago, Ilunga said:

 

Higher than normal inflation for the last few years is something that is affecting nearly all countries. 

It's not just dictated by the economic policies of the different governments/ political affiliation, in different countries. 

People over here in Aus seem to hold the reserve bank more responsible for high interest rates/ high inflation than they do the government. 

 

I have been saying for decades, our economic systems are like a house of cards.

One decent " gust of wind " and the whole thing collapses. 

 

Seriously Elias what do you believe the result will be when you transfer so much wealth from the " bottom- middle " to the " top "

 

https://www.reuters.com/business/pandemic-boosts-super-rich-share-global-wealth-2021-12-07/

 

 

 

 

Milton Friedman is recognized as one of the greatest economists ever. He said inflation is caused by governments. Nobody else. Because only the governments have the power of the printing press. He also said that inflation is a tax on the people.  Inflation is taxation without legislation. He was 100% correct on both counts. 
 

 

 

[Ilunga]

3 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:

Milton Friedman is recognized as one of the greatest economists ever. He said inflation is caused by governments. Nobody else. Because only the governments have the power of the printing press. He also said that inflation is a tax on the people.  Inflation is taxation without legislation. He was 100% correct on both counts. 
 

 

 

 

The same Milton Friedman who advocated that a business entity is not obligated to any social responsibilities unless the shareholders decide to do so.

 

The same Milton Friedman who supported the military dictatorship in Chile.

 

And seeing as you have been talking about inflation, this is the same Milton Friedman that stated,  the once people adjusted to a higher inflation rate, unemployment would creep back up. 

 

So according to him, just get used to high inflation and the potential of losing your job.

 

Personally I am against corporate profits without social responsibility.

 

I also don't like people who support dictators.

 

And a quick bit of research indicates that the current high inflation rate is due to supply chain issues, a housing crisis, that no government/Administration has addressed for decades, pent up consumer demand and the economic stimulus (Covid).

 

Are you going to argue against the fact that it was the economic stimulus during Covid, that kept out economies functioning ? 

 

Like your blame Joe, and in reality that is his team of economic advisers, just doesn't hold up brother.