24K Posted August 21 Share Posted August 21 13 minutes ago, the destroyer of worlds said: She was also arrogant. Arrogant in that she didn't have general election campaign stops in states like Wisconsin. She took some places for granted and paid for it when TRUMP narrowly beat her there. Also doesn't help her central message was "Elect me to be the first female president." 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post PistolPete13 Posted August 21 Popular Post Share Posted August 21 55 minutes ago, Cerridwen said: O. M. G. Michelle Obama just reminded Donald that POTUS IS a 'black job' considering who sat behind the Resolute Desk in the Oval Office for 8 years!!! Michelle’s speech was fire. 1 1 2 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Cerridwen Posted August 21 Popular Post Share Posted August 21 2 4 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Long Posted August 21 Share Posted August 21 1 hour ago, 24K said: Stop with this nonsense. Good number of Sanders voters were independents that voted in the primaries because of Sanders. They own the Dems and Clinton nothing. Just because they voted I. The Dem doesn't mean Clinton is entitled to their vote in the general. If they didn't turn out for Clinton. That is on Hillary Clinton and no one else. Not like Bernie told his supporters not to vote for Clinton or did not campaign for her after the primaries. Blaming Bernie for Clinton's lose is nonsense and shifting goal post. There is no way to measure if someone didn't turn out but we do have surveys that found anywhere from 6% to 12% of Sanders supporter ended up voting for Trump. Compare that to 2008, 24% of Clinton voters ended up voting for McCain. Based on that, blaming Bernie on Hillary's lose seem kinda disingenuous and 100% scapegoating Hillary's failure. https://www.removepaywall.com/search?url=https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/monkey-cage/wp/2017/08/24/did-enough-bernie-sanders-supporters-vote-for-trump-to-cost-clinton-the-election/ https://www.npr.org/2017/08/24/545812242/1-in-10-sanders-primary-voters-ended-up-supporting-trump-survey-finds Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaimito Posted August 21 Share Posted August 21 17 minutes ago, Bob Long said: https://www.npr.org/2017/08/24/545812242/1-in-10-sanders-primary-voters-ended-up-supporting-trump-survey-finds A lot of Obama voters voted for Trump in 2016. People don't always automatically vote along party lines. Gotta go win that vote. Hillary didn't do that enough. Her margin of loss was less than Biden's margin of victory. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaimito Posted August 21 Share Posted August 21 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smashian Kassian Posted August 21 Share Posted August 21 (edited) 1 hour ago, Sabrefan1 said: This here is what is astounding me the most. He's fighting for his freedom with this election, not just to get his old job back. It's inexplicable how poorly he is running this campaign. His 2016 run was 2nd only to Reagan's run as far as campaigns that I personally remember. His 2020 wasn't bad at all either. He just pis*ed off too many people and lost because of it. Now this 2024 run, he put his infotainment producer daughter-in-law in charge because he wanted control, his PACs have been all but useless, and his biggest strenth, on the ground campaigning, has been directionless. He has hundreds of billions to spend so money isn't an issue. Like I said a week ago, I do think his not being able to use arenas anymore has come back to hurt him. Nobody wants to be on their feet for hours waiting for a 45 minute speech that they've likely already heard before. Yeah he needs to fire his campaign managers. And it's not like there isn't material for him to work with either. Kamala was just in office, isn't a particularly great candidate, and played her part in selling the public that Joe Biden was actually in top mental condition this entire time. He might be starting to turn a corner coming off the Elon thing & another podcast today but he definitely left the door wide open. It's pretty amazing compared to 2016. Back then it was absolutely socially unacceptable to vote for Trump, the open public support was not there, and despite hitting every button he was expected to have no chance.. then he somehow pulled it out. This time around he was the favorite, has tons of public support, he's far more legitimate as a candidate, and he's came out of the gate & face planted at the first hurdle. Interesting to look back & compare. Edited August 21 by Smashian Kassian 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Long Posted August 21 Share Posted August 21 1 minute ago, Jaimito said: A lot of Obama voters voted for Trump in 2016. People don't always automatically vote along party lines. Gotta go win that vote. Hillary didn't do that enough. Her margin of loss was less than Biden's margin of victory. No, just looking at the numbers. It is a fact tho that bernie supporters that later switched could have won the election for Hillary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
24K Posted August 21 Share Posted August 21 22 minutes ago, Bob Long said: https://www.npr.org/2017/08/24/545812242/1-in-10-sanders-primary-voters-ended-up-supporting-trump-survey-finds And? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Long Posted August 21 Share Posted August 21 Just now, 24K said: And? Look at the margins of victory. Look at the bernie to trump vote switching. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Long Posted August 21 Share Posted August 21 4 minutes ago, Smashian Kassian said: Yeah he needs to fire his campaign managers. And it's not like there isn't material for him to work with either. Kamala was just in office, isn't a particularly great candidate, and played her part in selling the public that Joe Biden was actually in top mental condition this entire time. He might be starting to turn a corner coming off the Elon thing & another podcast today but he definitely left the door wide open. It's pretty amazing compared to 2016. Back then it was absolutely socially unacceptable to vote for Trump, the open public support was not there, and despite hitting every button he was expected to have no chance.. then he somehow pulled it out. This time around he was the favorite, has tons of public support, he's far more legitimate as a candidate, and he's came out of the gate & face planted at the first hurdle. Interesting to look back & compare. I doubt that Trump would listen to his campaign manager at the end of the day. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaimito Posted August 21 Share Posted August 21 1 hour ago, Sabrefan1 said: This here is what is astounding me the most. He's fighting for his freedom with this election, not just to get his old job back. It's inexplicable how poorly he is running this campaign. His 2016 run was 2nd only to Reagan's run as far as campaigns that I personally remember. His 2020 wasn't bad at all either. He just pis*ed off too many people and lost because of it. Now this 2024 run, he put his infotainment producer daughter-in-law in charge because he wanted control, his PACs have been all but useless, and his biggest strenth, on the ground campaigning, has been directionless. He has hundreds of billions to spend so money isn't an issue. Like I said a week ago, I do think his not being able to use arenas anymore has come back to hurt him. Nobody wants to be on their feet for hours waiting for a 45 minute speech that they've likely already heard before. That speech by Ana Navarro about how dictators put their family and friends in positions of power when they aren't the best person to do the job rings true. Nepotism will not get the best people to do the job. Also, many of those that have real skill and have taken a chance to work for Trump in the first term have left him. They realized what a terrible boss he is. Trump has a talent deficit in this campaign. 1 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
24K Posted August 21 Share Posted August 21 Just now, Bob Long said: Look at the margins of victory. Look at the bernie to trump vote switching. You didn't even read your own article did you? Those literally that switched aren't likely Dem voters to begin with. They only supported Sanders cause he was Sanders and not because he was a Dem. They have no loyalty to the dems and feeling entitled to their vote just because they voted in the Dem primary is naive. You are being really disingenuous here. That flip voter numbers is actually some of the lowest in history. Like I posted almost 1 in 4 of Hillary primary voters ended up voting for McCain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smashian Kassian Posted August 21 Share Posted August 21 7 minutes ago, Jaimito said: A lot of Obama voters voted for Trump in 2016. People don't always automatically vote along party lines. Gotta go win that vote. Hillary didn't do that enough. Her margin of loss was less than Biden's margin of victory. There's that great Norm joke; 'the people hated Hilary so much they voted for someone they hated even more just to stick it to her' She was very unlikable. She also epitomized the establishment/status-quo and Trump was very much a 'F you' vote for many. Obama called her the 'most qualified ever' yet in the final analysis she was closer to the worst candidate ever as she lost to Trump. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smashian Kassian Posted August 21 Share Posted August 21 4 minutes ago, Bob Long said: I doubt that Trump would listen to his campaign manager at the end of the day. Certainly not when it comes to speeches. I can't imagine someone attempting to tell him to not ramble on & on lol 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Long Posted August 21 Share Posted August 21 1 minute ago, 24K said: You didn't even read your own article did you? Those literally that switched aren't likely Dem voters to begin with. They only supported Sanders cause he was Sanders and not because he was a Dem. They have no loyalty to the dems and feeling entitled to their vote just because they voted in the Dem primary is naive. You are being really disingenuous here. That flip voter numbers is actually some of the lowest in history. Like I posted almost 1 in 4 of Hillary primary voters ended up voting for McCain. I'm quoting the numbers, for some reason that's making you emotional. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cerridwen Posted August 21 Share Posted August 21 Loved it!! Quote Armand Domalewski@ArmandDoma MICHELLE OBAMA 2016: When they go low, we go high. MICHELLE OBAMA 2024: Fuuuuuuuck that 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
24K Posted August 21 Share Posted August 21 9 minutes ago, Smashian Kassian said: Yeah he needs to fire his campaign managers. And it's not like there isn't material for him to work with either. Kamala was just in office, isn't a particularly great candidate, and played her part in selling the public that Joe Biden was actually in top mental condition this entire time. He might be starting to turn a corner coming off the Elon thing & another podcast today but he definitely left the door wide open. It's pretty amazing compared to 2016. Back then it was absolutely socially unacceptable to vote for Trump, the open public support was not there, and despite hitting every button he was expected to have no chance.. then he somehow pulled it out. This time around he was the favorite, has tons of public support, he's far more legitimate as a candidate, and he's came out of the gate & face planted at the first hurdle. Interesting to look back & compare. I doubt anyone can turn that camapign around. It was doomed the moment the opponent isn't Biden. That is the fundamental truth of this election. Americans are tired of Trump and find Biden to be a loving fossil. Anyone other than those two will get the wave of support we are seeing with Kamala. You say Trump is a more legitimate candidate but thatbis probably more than offset in many voters eyes by his action on Jan 6th and his 34 convictions making him a less legitimate candidate. Honestly Trump might have way more support and likely be winning against any Dem had he just conceded to Biden in 2020. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Long Posted August 21 Share Posted August 21 2 minutes ago, Smashian Kassian said: There's that great Norm joke; 'the people hated Hilary so much they voted for someone they hated even more just to stick it to her' She was very unlikable. She also epitomized the establishment/status-quo and Trump was very much a 'F you' vote for many. Obama called her the 'most qualified ever' yet in the final analysis she was closer to the worst candidate ever as she lost to Trump. Even if she was right that "basket of deplorables" comment came off really arrogant. If you look at the slim margins and the pretty large number of bernie to trump vote switching, you have to wonder if she cost herself some support from that group. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smashian Kassian Posted August 21 Share Posted August 21 The religious language here is very curious/interesting imo 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
24K Posted August 21 Share Posted August 21 3 minutes ago, Bob Long said: I'm quoting the numbers, for some reason that's making you emotional. I already quoted you the numbers in my original post. 6% to 12% according to 3 surveys. You didn't add anything to the discussion. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaimito Posted August 21 Share Posted August 21 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
24K Posted August 21 Share Posted August 21 1 minute ago, Jaimito said: I like this new energy. Dems are learning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Long Posted August 21 Share Posted August 21 5 minutes ago, 24K said: I already quoted you the numbers in my original post. 6% to 12% according to 3 surveys. You didn't add anything to the discussion. Cool now you play gatekeeper. Maybe put me on ignore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
24K Posted August 21 Share Posted August 21 (edited) 5 minutes ago, Bob Long said: Cool now you play gatekeeper. Maybe put me on ignore. I am not playing gatekeeper. I feel like you don't fully read my post and I have to repeat myself every time. Also as a matter if principle I don't put anyone on ignore. Well except for that o e person back in cdc that just can't shut up about Jordan Petterson. Edited August 21 by 24K Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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