US Politics Thread

[King Heffy]

9 minutes ago, Curmudgeon said:

 

But he is. Faced with repeated debunking of his cats and dogs accusations, he has continued to perpetuate the lie. That lie has disrupted, diminished and demeaned an entire Ohio city as well as driving a divisive wedge between the residents of that city. Of course he bears responsibility for the repercussions of continuing to spread demonstrably false information. To deny Trump's culpability is disingenuous.

 

He should have to pay the bill for the costs incurred for each one of those bomb threats that are a direct reply of his refusal to act like a civilized adult.

[nuckin_futz]

 

Looks like a 5.6% lead nationally. Though that Electoral College is a major factor. Pennsylvania betters going Dem by the slimmest of margins.

 

Though it would be an absolute shitshow a little part of me wants Trump to win the popular vote and lose the Electoral College.

[Elias Pettersson]

16 minutes ago, Satchmo said:

Quite right - he never said it was legal to kill  baby.  He said Democrats were doing it.   Right out loud at 0:43 on the video. Maybe the moderator should have given him the libel laws instead of the infanticide laws.

 

There are about 3.58 infant deaths per 1,000 births every year in the US.  In red states, blue states, there are doctors whose only course of action is to keep the baby comfortable.  Nature can be cruel and is often insurmountable.

 

 

It is indeed legal in 9 states to have an abortion in the 9th month and throughout the entirety of the pregnancy.  One of those states is Minnesota, where Tim Walz is the Governor.  Isn't that what Trump said, that Walz passed a law to allow this?  

 

Yes, Some States Allow Abortions Through All Nine Months of Pregnancy (yahoo.com)

 

According to research by the Guttmacher Institute, a think tank focused on advancing reproductive rights, and KFF, a health policy nonprofit, as of 2024, nine states—plus the District of Columbia—currently place no gestational limits on abortion: Alaska, Colorado, Maryland, Michigan, Minnesota, New Jersey, New Mexico, Oregon, and Vermont.

 

Some of the states with no gestational limits on abortion passed statutory or constitutional protections for the procedure in the lead-up to the Supreme Court’s 2022 ruling in Dobbs v. Jackson Women’s Health Organization, which overturned the constitutional right to an abortion established in Roe v. Wade and Planned Parenthood v. Casey. New Jersey Gov. Phil Murphy, for example, signed legislation in early 2022 protecting abortion access in anticipation of the Supreme Court’s ruling in Dobbs. The law included no gestational limits on abortion in the state.

 

Other states, like Minnesota and Michigan, passed measures protecting access to abortion after Roe was overturned. In January 2023, Minnesota Gov. Tim Walz signed a bill that imposed no restrictions or gestational limits on abortion, and in November 2022, Michigan voters approved a constitutional amendment establishing an individual right to make decisions about abortion. Michigan’s amendment allows the state to regulate abortion once a fetus has reached a point of viability—typically between 24 and 26 weeks of pregnancy—with exceptions to protect the life, physical health, or mental health of the mother. However, the state has not acted on its right to regulate post-viability abortions, and abortions are currently permitted at any point in pregnancy.

 

State Bans on Abortion Throughout Pregnancy | Guttmacher Institute

 

Highlights

41 STATES HAVE ABORTION BANS IN EFFECT WITH ONLY LIMITED EXCEPTIONS.

14 states have a total abortion ban.

27 states have abortion bans based on gestational duration.

8 states ban abortion at or before 18 weeks’ gestation.

19 states ban abortion at some point after 18 weeks.

9 STATES AND THE DISTRICT OF COLUMBIA DO NOT RESTRICT ABORTION BASED ON GESTATIONAL DURATION.

 

A state-by-state breakdown of abortion laws 2 years after Roe was overturned - ABC News (go.com)

 

At least nine states have no restrictions based on how far along a woman is in her pregnancy and many have recently added amendments enshrining the right to abortion in their state constitutions.

 

Minnesota

Minnesota does not prohibit abortion based on how far along a woman is in pregnancy.

[Curmudgeon]

23 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:

The bomb threats were fake and a foreign actor took advantage of the situation.

 

Think it through, EP.

1. We know Russia wants a Trump presidency because Putin has this svengali-like hold over Trump, and Trump will let him do whatever the hell he wants, with particular respect to a) Ukraine, and b) gutting NATO.

2. In Trump's mind, he can beat the Democrats on the immigration issue.

3. Trump wants the American population to agree with him that the country is being overrun by illegal aliens, so he seizes on a bizarre pet-eating conspiracy.

4. Russia wants to help prove Trump's claim that illegal aliens are causing chaos, so they fan the flames by initiating bomb threats to further disrupt American democracy.

5. The citizens of Springfield are humiliated by this crap that JD Vance admitted creating to show Americans that there are immigration problems. Or something.

6. The Trump apologists claim no connection between Trump's quadrupling down on the dog/cat story and the sudden proliferation of bomb threats coming from outside Springfield.

7. Meanwhile, Russia continues to infect non-Russian social media with fantastical claims about the evil Democrats, pro-Trump memes and whatever else their bots can screw with.

 

Verdict: Russians crafted the bomb threats to help Trump prove that illegal aliens are the cause of everything bad happening in America.

 

[RupertKBD]

38 minutes ago, nuckin_futz said:

 

My money is on those assholes in Uruguay.

 

I think we both know which country the worst odds would be on.

 

I'm going to go with the "thousands and thousands" of disgruntled Canadians who have since moved to Guatemala to have a better quality of life thanks to Justin....

[Elias Pettersson]

11 minutes ago, Curmudgeon said:

 

Think it through, EP.

1. We know Russia wants a Trump presidency because Putin has this svengali-like hold over Trump, and Trump will let him do whatever the hell he wants, with particular respect to a) Ukraine, and b) gutting NATO.

2. In Trump's mind, he can beat the Democrats on the immigration issue.

3. Trump wants the American population to agree with him that the country is being overrun by illegal aliens, so he seizes on a bizarre pet-eating conspiracy.

4. Russia wants to help prove Trump's claim that illegal aliens are causing chaos, so they fan the flames by initiating bomb threats to further disrupt American democracy.

5. The citizens of Springfield are humiliated by this crap that JD Vance admitted creating to show Americans that there are immigration problems. Or something.

6. The Trump apologists claim no connection between Trump's quadrupling down on the dog/cat story and the sudden proliferation of bomb threats coming from outside Springfield.

7. Meanwhile, Russia continues to infect non-Russian social media with fantastical claims about the evil Democrats, pro-Trump memes and whatever else their bots can screw with.

 

Verdict: Russians crafted the bomb threats to help Trump prove that illegal aliens are the cause of everything bad happening in America.

 

 

I can't really get around this theory to be totally honest with you.  The bomb threats make Trump/Vance look bad not good, IMO.  Russia supposedly wants to make Trump look good.  I don't buy the theory that causing chaos by closing down schools and hospitals is GOOD for Trump.  It has a negative connotation.  Not saying this isn't a plausible theory, I just don't believe it.  My opinion only though...

[The Arrogant Worms]

Scientific American magazine backs Harris with second endorsement in 179-year history

https://www.rawstory.com/kamala-harris-scientific-american/?utm_source=superhead

[SilentSam]

 

 

 

[The Arrogant Worms]

Confused Trump struggles in 'painful' crypto interview and keeps trying to change topic

Donald Trump's bid to become a 'crypto bro' has got off to a bad start as the 78-year-old couldn't answer simple questions during a live X Spaces.

 

https://www.the-express.com/news/politics/148857/donald-trump-cryptocurrency-barron-federal

[Gator]

If you're even slightly open minded to the idea you could be very wrong about Trump, you should really take the time to watch this.. This guy doesn't glamor over Trump like that girl did, and provides much better facts to back up this false rhetoric you guys push against Trump. It's actually pretty sick...

[Satchmo]

1 hour ago, Gator said:

That's the issue. You guys just "don't care"

Maybe I'm just tired of talking about it.  It's small potatoes compared to the other bits of misinformation.

 

What guys?  I've telling you what I think.  I'm not speaking for some team.

[JoeyJoeJoeJr. Shabadoo]

58 minutes ago, nuckin_futz said:

 

Looks like a 5.6% lead nationally. Though that Electoral College is a major factor. Pennsylvania betters going Dem by the slimmest of margins.

 

Though it would be an absolute shitshow a little part of me wants Trump to win the popular vote and lose the Electoral College.

 

[24K]

1 hour ago, Gator said:

He also NEVER said that it's legal anywhere. He specifically mentions that the governor of West Virginia" (meant Virginia and later correct himself) says after the baby is born they would decide what to do with it.. Which is EXACTLY what buddy said in proof I provided.

 

The the moderators fact check him saying it's not legal in any state to kill a baby.

 

What that does is try to discredit the important matter he raised, and they just avoided the very serious conversation.

 

So yes he was very wrongly fact checked on that. Idc how blind to that fact you pretend to be.

There is a major difference between post birth abortion which is infanticide and the parents having the option to put unviable infants in hospice care knowing they will not suffer in their short life undergoing grueling and painful procedures that doctor's already know won't amount to much in their survival.

 

Being extra cruel to parents already suffering ain't anyone's idea of empathy for the parents. 

 

What Trump is making it sound like is parents and doctor's just decide out of the blue to kill a healthy newborn just cause they can. Until Trump himself clarifies it, all that triangulation and spinning ain't changing anyone's mind. 

[kilgore]

2 hours ago, Gator said:

1. Again.. Regardless of if it's morally right or not, Trump was right to bring up the topic, and he was wrongfully fact checked. They made it seem like he was straight up lying about the whole late term abortion thing, when he really wasn't.. Your stance on it being morally the right this is completely irrelevant to the discussion at hand, but just like the last few people your steer the discussion to make you seem right, and ignore the specific point that's being made.

 

2. Like I said she was for it, and now she's not. Conveniently Pennsylvania is a swing state and she would more than definitely lose it if she admitted to still wanting to ban it. If Trump showed as strong of a stance on a matter like she did on that in 2019, there's no way you'd buy him conveniently changing his stance. 

 

Point is if tables were reversed they would have been so quick to say "Well actually Trump did say this back in 2019", regardless if he said he changed stance or not.

 

Hell he said during the debate he had nothing to do with project 2025, and when Harris kept bringing it up she wasn't fact checked.

 

3. That's just a fancy doctored up way of saying she was for defunding the police. Just making it more appeasing to the people reading so it doesn't sound so negative. The comments were also made during a discussion about "defunding the police".. So its not like her words were taken out of context and spun into something theyre not. She was asked specifically on "defunding the police" before making that statement.

 

It's fact she was for defunding the police, yet there was no fact check.

 

4. I didn't once say it's appropriate. Stop twisting my words. I simply pointed it it's taken way out of context (by a mile) to push a very dangers "hitler" narrative about Trump. That's the dangerous stuff leading to the assassination attempts that you guys are truly responsible for by knowingly pushing the false narrative.

 

Again, wasn't fact checked when Kamala brought it up in the debate. Ultimately showing the American people Trump is in fact a threat to democracy.. And look what happened.. A second assassination attempt not even a wee after the debate

 

 

You guys are dangerous. Crazy you guys really don't see it.

 

1.."Regardless of if it's morally right or not, Trump was right to bring up the topic, and he was wrongfully fact checked."

 

"...in other words they execute the baby!"  His insinuation was that healthy babies were being taken from mothers wombs and then murdered. He has used the word "murder" to describe the same thing in his rally speeches. That was what he was corrected on. The false perception of what he was trying to scare people with. But you knew that right?

 

Why would he even bring it up if it was a very rare procedure completely outside of the norm? And nothing to do with a woman going to her doctor to ask for an abortion?  I know why.  Its because his evangelical cult followers will interpret it as he's been programming them to believe in his rallies.

 

2. First off, you are wrong, she was called out for her change in positions on fracking and asked to explain herself. And yes of course she changed her stance on fracking, as Joe did, based a lot on not wanting to lose Pennsylvania and other fracking States. You are correct. See, its not that hard to admit your own supported politician can change positions to garner votes.  And Trump was a Democrat who supported a Bernie socialist style single payer system at  one time.

 

https://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-show/it-looks-trump-was-single-payer-he-was-against-it-msna1021271

 

Back in 2000, he advocated for it as both a potential Reform Party presidential candidate and in his book, "The America We Deserve.""We must have universal health care. Just imagine the improved quality of life for our society as a whole," he wrote, adding: "The Canadian-style, single-payer system in which all payments for medical care are made to a single agency (as opposed to the large number of HMOs and insurance companies with their diverse rules, claim forms and deductibles) … helps Canadians live longer and healthier than Americans."Just before the 2016 campaign, Trump appeared on David Letterman's show and held up Scotland's socialized system as the ideal.

 

Now the idea is radical socialism.

 

3. In that clip her first words, after the biased introduction by Meghan McCain, were that its about "re-imagining the way we fund the police".  You can call it "fancy" all you like.  Maybe its too sophisticated for you to see things other than black and white, us vs them. Do you honestly believe that Harris, a former DA working with police to put away criminals, wants to hurt the police, or create a more unsafe public space?  I will admit another bad trait of the Democrats. Its allowing themselves to be branded with terrible memes.  Another one is "open borders"  Which allowed Republicans to interpret it for them.....letting in every criminal and rapist in carte blanche with zero processing.  Nothing could be further from the truth. But again, its what Trump says it is. At his rallies.  Then all he has to say out loud is "open borders" and his cult will know what lie he tells them.

 

4. Trump has done more to paint himself as "Hitler" than anyone else.  He openly admires brutal dictators.  He said he's going to be a dictator.  His racist past behaviour with excluding blacks from his buildings.  He uses phrases like "poisoning the blood of the nation" "Shithole countries" He's enacted cruel policies at the border to separate mothers from their children as a deterrent.  And housing them in cages. Some thousands of miles away, with bad record keeping. Some have still never been reunited. He talks of retribution. Jailing opponents. Firing thousands of civil servants and installing his own cult members. He demonizes the free press as "fake news" He uses Goebels tactic of the Big Lie. Repeat something big enough and often enough an people will believe you.

 

So folks on social media just might see a relationship no?   And Democrats haven't used the H word to describe him. The only prominent politician to call him Hitler is his own VP candidate. Why do you suppose he did that?

 

 

 

 

Edited Tuesday at 05:26 AM by kilgore

[nuckin_futz]

42 minutes ago, The Arrogant Worms said:

Confused Trump struggles in 'painful' crypto interview and keeps trying to change topic

Donald Trump's bid to become a 'crypto bro' has got off to a bad start as the 78-year-old couldn't answer simple questions during a live X Spaces.

 

https://www.the-express.com/news/politics/148857/donald-trump-cryptocurrency-barron-federal

 

Wow that was more embarrassing than his usual word salad. I like how keynote speaker Barron just upped and left before his turn to speak. Just another shitshow.

Edited Tuesday at 05:17 AM by nuckin_futz

[4petesake]

1 hour ago, nuckin_futz said:

 

Looks like a 5.6% lead nationally. Though that Electoral College is a major factor. Pennsylvania betters going Dem by the slimmest of margins.

 

Though it would be an absolute shitshow a little part of me wants Trump to win the popular vote and lose the Electoral College.

 

Sending out the batsignal to @StanleyCupOneDay.

I’m hoping you will bring your knowledge back to this thread or bump the US Elections thread again.

[kilgore]

4 minutes ago, 4petesake said:

 

Sending out the batsignal to @StanleyCupOneDay.

I’m hoping you will bring your knowledge back to this thread or bump the US Elections thread again.

 

Michelle Obama at .3 %!!!

So you're saying there's a chance!

[NewbieCanuckFan]

1 hour ago, RupertKBD said:

 

I'm going to go with the "thousands and thousands" of disgruntled Canadians who have since moved to Guatemala to have a better quality of life thanks to Justin....

There's no need to besmirch the good name of the great Canadian Ted Cruz even though his wife is ugly according to Herr Vonn Sh*tsHisPant.

[Gator]

28 minutes ago, kilgore said:

Do you honestly believe that Harris, a former DA working with police to put away criminals, wants to hurt the police

No, unlike the left I don't try to create a false rhetoric at every turn..

 

What I'm pointing out is the "FACT" that she did support defunding the police (no matter how you decorate her stance it's fact she was for it), denied it, and wasn't fact checked about it.

 

It is that black and white. Dance around the fact all you want. The way that debate was handled was borderline criminal

Edited Tuesday at 05:37 AM by Gator

[Optimist Prime]

2 hours ago, nuckin_futz said:

 

My money is on those assholes in Uruguay.

 

I think we both know which country the worst odds would be on.

No one ever suspects Burkina Faso, yet in a global scenario, i used them to sink a Canadian sub and start ww3. hahaha..... 

[nuckin_futz]

16 minutes ago, kilgore said:

 

Michelle Obama at .3 %!!!

So you're saying there's a chance!

 

That's the long shot insurance bet in case Kamala gets iced.

[Duodenum]

Back to policy instead of he said she said.

 

Trump plans would add $5.8 trillion to national debt

https://www.axios.com/2024/08/28/trump-harris-national-debt-election

 

Donald Trump's campaign promises would send the national debt soaring much faster than Kamala Harris' would, per two new analyses from the Penn Wharton Budget Model. Both of them increase the deficit relative to the current baseline.

 

Follow the money: The top 1% would see their post-tax income rise by $47,000 in 2026 under Trump, compared to a fall of $9,000 under Harris.

 

The median household would see an income gain of about $2,000 per year under both plans.

 

The bottom line: If the GOP was ever a party committed to reducing the national debt, it's not anymore.

 

Disclaimer: Axios is 'lean left' but they are just reporting on the Penn Wharton Business Model here.

 

[Curmudgeon]

7 minutes ago, kilgore said:

4. Trump has done more to paint himself as "Hitler" than anyone else.  He openly admires brutal dictators.  He said he's going to be a dictator.  His racist past behaviour with excluding blacks from his buildings.  He uses phrases like "poisoning the blood of the nation" "Shithole countries" He's enacted cruel policies at the border to separate mothers from their children as a deterrent.  And housing them in cages. Some thousands of miles away, with bad record keeping. Some have still never been reunited. He talks of retribution. Jailing opponents. Firing thousands of civil servants and installing his own cult members. He demonizes the free press as "fake news" He uses Goebels tactic of the Big Lie. Repeat something big enough and often enough an people will believe you.

 

 

This is as good an analysis as I've seen in this thread. Just to add a couple of thoughts:

 

Of course Trump isn't Hitler. He's not advocating the extermination of an entire religion or the territorial expansion via military means. Their histories are different (Hitler actually went to war), their economic situations are completely different, and Hitler was a literate, worldwise man whereas Trump thinks Button and Nipple are two countries in Asia. But similarities between the two do exist. They arise from similar mindsets and similar tactics.

 

In terms of mindset, both are racist promoters of the unclean outsiders who are polluting the purity of the nation, both corrupted the judiciary, both had a fascination with strong militaries, both were infatuated with grand architecture, both suffered from a gigantic persecution complex and both were malignant narcissists who would never tolerate opposition to his plans or ideas. These factors made them demanding, dispassionate, ruthless and merciless.

 

Their tactics are less similar in some respects. Hitler surrounded himself with capable people who would do exactly as they were ordered, whereas Trump's record as a hirer of capable people is abysmal, because anytime an appointee showed signs of talent, Trump immediately felt threatened and got rid of him or her. Hitler was also an organized, detailed person, whereas Trump would like you to believe he is, too, but the reality is that he's winging it virtually all of the time. The only tactics that are similar might be that both of them like to create internal strife amongst their closest associates, and both used public rallies to great effect.

 

Finally, when people say that Trump is like Hitler, what they are reacting to is some of those shared mindset and tactical similarities. In that way, Trump can be similar to Hitler without actually being Hitler. A fine point, I know, but worth thinking about.

 

 

[nuckin_futz]

6 minutes ago, Duodenum said:

Back to policy instead of he said she said.

 

Trump plans would add $5.8 trillion to national debt

 

 

Would be an improvement over his first term.

[nuckin_futz]

3 minutes ago, Curmudgeon said:

 

This is as good an analysis as I've seen in this thread. Just to add a couple of thoughts:

 

Of course Trump isn't Hitler. He's not advocating the extermination of an entire religion or the territorial expansion via military means. Their histories are different (Hitler actually went to war), their economic situations are completely different, and Hitler was a literate, worldwise man whereas Trump thinks Button and Nipple are two countries in Asia. But similarities between the two do exist. They arise from similar mindsets and similar tactics.

 

In terms of mindset, both are racist promoters of the unclean outsiders who are polluting the purity of the nation, both corrupted the judiciary, both had a fascination with strong militaries, both were infatuated with grand architecture, both suffered from a gigantic persecution complex and both were malignant narcissists who would never tolerate opposition to his plans or ideas. These factors made them demanding, dispassionate, ruthless and merciless.

 

Their tactics are less similar in some respects. Hitler surrounded himself with capable people who would do exactly as they were ordered, whereas Trump's record as a hirer of capable people is abysmal, because anytime an appointee showed signs of talent, Trump immediately felt threatened and got rid of him or her. Hitler was also an organized, detailed person, whereas Trump would like you to believe he is, too, but the reality is that he's winging it virtually all of the time. The only tactics that are similar might be that both of them like to create internal strife amongst their closest associates, and both used public rallies to great effect.

 

Finally, when people say that Trump is like Hitler, what they are reacting to is some of those shared mindset and tactical similarities. In that way, Trump can be similar to Hitler without actually being Hitler. A fine point, I know, but worth thinking about.

 

 

 

I take it that was Bhutan and Nepal?