US Politics Thread

[Sabrefan1]

2 minutes ago, the destroyer of worlds said:

I always thought this to be a little premature due to a lack of a criminal conviction of a nature spelled out in the Constitution.

 

That being said, the QOP had 2 chances to keep him off the ballot, and defended him.  

 

The constitution isn't ironclad about this matter.  That was purposely done that way because that part of the amendment was aimed specifically at the Confederate State leaders.

 

The US Supreme Court is stuffed with originalist conservative jurists who will likely recognize that and rule that Trump is eligible to run.  There's a reason why Democrats took the issue to a known liberal state court.  If they thought they had a strong case, they wouldn't just try to knock him off of a single swing state ballot, they'd go for the 50 state death blow at the federal level.

[RupertKBD]

Wait a minute.....

 

You mean to say Biden wasn't able to swing this case the way he has on all the other cases against Agent Orange?

[Bob Long]

5 minutes ago, Sabrefan1 said:

 

The constitution isn't ironclad about this matter.  That was purposely done that way because that part of the amendment was aimed specifically at the Confederate State leaders.

 

The US Supreme Court is stuffed with originalist conservative jurists who will likely recognize that and rule that Trump is eligible to run.  There's a reason why Democrats took the issue to a known liberal state court.  If they thought they had a strong case, they wouldn't just try to knock him off of a single swing state ballot, they'd go for the 50 state death blow at the federal level.

 

a trial ballon in a democratic state is a good place to start. If that fails, then why bother with 50 state thing out of the gate? plus I imagine that costs a lot of money.

 

The dems need to jettison Harris for someone voters can get excited about, and not try to rely on the courts, imo. 

Edited November 8, 2023 by Bob Long

[Sharpshooter]

1 hour ago, soggy said:

 

weird hostile tone but ok

 

thats sort of true in the early 2000s, certainly not today and hasnt been for some time

 

arab americans have historically been pretty split republican/democrat but after 9/11 moved to the left. a majority voted for obama in 08 and 2012. 

 

Trump alienated arab americans and even more came out in 2016 and 2020

 

support for biden among arab americans has dropped from almost 60% down to 17%

 

arab americans are a key voting block in michigan and can easily swing it for trump if they stay home

 

arizona, wisconsin, and georgia all were won by razor thin margins, easily swung by arab americans staying home

 

edit: sorry if my insinuation was unclear, ill spell it out: a majority of arab americans are incredibly angry at biden and the democratic establishment. they probably dont like republicans much more at this point so the likely outcome is staying home in large numbers, but if a republican candidate emerges with an isolationist agenda (basically gtfo the middle east) theres a decent chance that candidate captures a bunch of the vote

 

 

 

The tone was combative, I agree. Hopefully he gets up on the right side of the bed tomorrow. 
 

@Warhippy
 

 

[Gurn]

 

[Sabrefan1]

38 minutes ago, Bob Long said:

a trial ballon in a democratic state is a good place to start. If that fails, then why bother with 50 state thing out of the gate? plus I imagine that costs a lot of money.

 

The second that they win in any of these states, especially a swing state, odds are that the Supreme Court is going to bypass the entire federal court system and pick it up immediately and rule on it quickly.  The Democrats are dragging it out. 

 

If the Democrats thought they had a strong case, Trump wouldn't be getting hammered in what was obviously pre-planned multiple at once court cases.  They would have gone for the jugular immediately at the highest level.

 

Quote

The dems need to jettison Harris for someone voters can get excited about, and not try to rely on the courts, imo. 

 

Harris doesn't help, but the problem is Biden himself.  Democrat voters have never really liked him.  That's why he failed in the past when he ran for president and why he initially decided against running in 2020.  He was voted in on anti-Trump votes and not pro-Biden votes.  That's why there are still Republicans who would rather see a different Republican running for president.  They are worried that there will be a repeat of the 2020 vote.

[King Heffy]

1 minute ago, Sabrefan1 said:

 

The second that they win in any of these states, especially a swing state, odds are that the Supreme Court is going to bypass the entire federal court system and pick it up immediately and rule on it quickly.  The Democrats are dragging it out. 

 

If the Democrats thought they had a strong case, Trump wouldn't be getting hammered in what was obviously pre-planned multiple at once court cases.  They would have gone for the jugular immediately at the highest level.

 

 

Harris doesn't help, but the problem is Biden himself.  Democrat voters have never really liked him.  That's why he failed in the past when he ran for president and why he initially decided against running in 2020.  He was voted in on anti-Trump votes and not pro-Biden votes.  That's why there are still Republicans who would rather see a different Republican running for president.  They are worried that there will be a repeat of the 2020 vote.

If Trump hadn't broken number laws, he wouldn't have those court cases.  Can't blame the Dems for the fact that Trump is no better than a common criminal and belongs in prison.

[Riddikulus]

2 hours ago, soggy said:

i think a lot of them are staying home, probably record number, and bidens edge in several swing states was miniscule. certainly in michigan he needed arab americans support to win. 

 

if trump comes out with the tucker carlson isolationist agenda i think he actually steals some of their votes

 

majority of arab americans are also muslim, and theres a fair bit of alignment on republican social issues, its not far fetched to think a republican candidate can recapture a bunch of that vote

 

im not american so i dont have a horse in the race. while i also wont share my race or ethnicity, ill just say this: im not supporting trudeau again, and certainly not voting for polivere. for the first time in my life ill be burning my vote - im writing in Vermin Supreme

Good luck with that. Trump has mentioned banning Muslims or creating a registry for them. Maybe those with a memory of a goldfish might be able to forget the inflammatory rhetoric and vote for him.

[Sabrefan1]

2 minutes ago, King Heffy said:

If Trump hadn't broken number laws, he wouldn't have those court cases.  Can't blame the Dems for the fact that Trump is no better than a common criminal and belongs in prison.

 

Time will tell if he goes to prison or not.  As for the timing of those cases, they were all brought at the same exact time for political purposes.

 

I still maintain though that his most dangerous case is in Georgia.  That is the one that I think he flat out broke both federal and state law. 

 

If Trump becomes president again, he can retroactively pardon himself for any and all federal charges and/or convictions, but he can't do squat about state convictions.  Those pardons are at the pleasure of Georgia's governor, not the US president or even the US Congress.

[soggy]

2 minutes ago, Riddikulus said:

Good luck with that. Trump has mentioned banning Muslims or creating a registry for them. Maybe those with a memory of a goldfish might be able to forget the inflammatory rhetoric and vote for him.

who knows, i dont have a crystal ball, but people will underestimate how much two issues will matter to muslim americans: values/social issues (particularly the sexuality/gender stuff) and the biden administrations handling of israel/palestine. dont think the inflammatory rhetoric from 2016/2017 will matter as much as those two things. 

 

 

[The Arrogant Worms]

 

‘Don’t Remind Me’: Jesse Watters Gets His Erroneous Election Prediction Thrown in His Face

 

https://www.mediaite.com/politics/dont-remind-me-jesse-watters-gets-his-erroneous-election-prediction-thrown-in-his-face/

[Riddikulus]

6 minutes ago, soggy said:

who knows, i dont have a crystal ball, but people will underestimate how much two issues will matter to muslim americans: values/social issues (particularly the sexuality/gender stuff) and the biden administrations handling of israel/palestine. dont think the inflammatory rhetoric from 2016/2017 will matter as much as those two things. 

 

 

If you insult someone's faith then you have no chance of them supporting you regardless of whether the rest of your political views align. Most people have long memories about stuff like that. I don't disagree with you that there might a lot of those folks who will stay home but the possibility of a shift to Trump is just fantasy.  

Edited November 9, 2023 by Riddikulus

[soggy]

Just now, Riddikulus said:

If you insult someone's faith then you have no chance of them supporting you regardless of whether the rest of your political views align. Most people have long memories about stuff like that. I don't disagree with you that there might a lot of those folks who will stay home but the possibility of a shift to Trump is just fantasy.  

definitely a possibility, but i wouldnt be too certain of that

he got more support (albeit marginally) in 2020 than he got in 2016 from muslim-americans, and this was after saying all of his racist drivel

https://www.npr.org/2020/12/04/942262760/majority-of-muslims-voted-for-biden-but-trump-got-more-not-less-support

 

theres a pretty compelling narrative here for trump emerging. "i may have said some mean things, but in the entire time i was in office, i was winding down military intervention in the ME, while obama and biden were starting fresh wars. im mean and vaguely racist but im basically harmless while biden continues massacring muslims"

 

again i dont have a horse in the race, i just think it would be bad for democrats to think they have the muslim vote, particularly the arab muslim vote in the bag. 

 

[The Arrogant Worms]

 

1,100 Days After Trump Lost the 2020 Election, He Promises Evidence He Actually Won Is Coming Soon

 

https://www.mediaite.com/trump/1100-days-after-trump-lost-the-2020-election-he-promises-evidence-he-actually-won-is-coming-soon/

[4petesake]

15 minutes ago, soggy said:

definitely a possibility, but i wouldnt be too certain of that

he got more support (albeit marginally) in 2020 than he got in 2016 from muslim-americans, and this was after saying all of his racist drivel

https://www.npr.org/2020/12/04/942262760/majority-of-muslims-voted-for-biden-but-trump-got-more-not-less-support

 

theres a pretty compelling narrative here for trump emerging. "i may have said some mean things, but in the entire time i was in office, i was winding down military intervention in the ME, while obama and biden were starting fresh wars. im mean and vaguely racist but im basically harmless while biden continues massacring muslims"

 

again i dont have a horse in the race, i just think it would be bad for democrats to think they have the muslim vote, particularly the arab muslim vote in the bag. 

 

 

Agree totally that it’d be a serious mistake for the Dems to take any voting block for granted. That said thinking that Trump is capable of any kind of introspection much less a mea culpa even to garner support seems more than a little far-fetched.

[soggy]

Just now, 4petesake said:

 

Agree totally that it’d be a serious mistake for the Dems to take any voting block for granted. That said thinking that Trump is capable of any kind of introspection much less a mea culpa even to garner support seems more than a little far-fetched.

he doesnt really have to walk anything back, he just has to hammer the non-interventionist talking point & focus on inflation + social values for domestic issues and i think he'll make huge inroads

[4petesake]

5 minutes ago, soggy said:

he doesnt really have to walk anything back, he just has to hammer the non-interventionist talking point & focus on inflation + social values for domestic issues and i think he'll make huge inroads

 

I would guess that side of his platform would hold some appeal to that community but imo  not enough to overcome this sort of rhetoric-

 

At least a dozen Republicans in Congress and two on the campaign trail – including former President Donald Trump – are calling for another so-called Muslim ban that could restrict travel to the U.S. from Muslim-majority countries. They've introduced legislation to bar Palestinian refugees and called on the president to revoke the visas of anyone supporting Hamas.

The proposals are "reminiscent of post-9/11" said Zainab Chaudry, Maryland director for the Council on American-Islamic Relations, or CAIR.

 

At Republican primary campaign rallies in Iowa and New Hampshire this week, Trump said he would ban Gaza refugees, begin "strong ideological screening of all immigrants" and reboot his ban on travelers from Muslim-majority nations if he wins a second term in office.

"Remember when they said, 'Oh that's so vicious'? But it kept us safe," Trump said Monday after filing for the New Hampshire primary.

[JoeyJoeJoeJr. Shabadoo]

5 minutes ago, soggy said:

he doesnt really have to walk anything back, he just has to hammer the non-interventionist talking point & focus on inflation + social values for domestic issues and i think he'll make huge inroads

Social values like Muslim travel bans and Jesus in every school.

[soggy]

5 minutes ago, JoeyJoeJoeJr. Shabadoo said:

Social values like Muslim travel bans and Jesus in every school.

generally speaking most religious muslims are pretty aligned with social conservatives on abortion + lgbtq + gender/sex education in schools

theres a reason muslims were overwhelmingly republican voters before 9/11

Edited November 9, 2023 by soggy

[JoeyJoeJoeJr. Shabadoo]

2 minutes ago, 4petesake said:

 

I would guess that side of his platform would hold some appeal to that community but imo  not enough to overcome this sort of rhetoric-

 

At least a dozen Republicans in Congress and two on the campaign trail – including former President Donald Trump – are calling for another so-called Muslim ban that could restrict travel to the U.S. from Muslim-majority countries. They've introduced legislation to bar Palestinian refugees and called on the president to revoke the visas of anyone supporting Hamas.

The proposals are "reminiscent of post-9/11" said Zainab Chaudry, Maryland director for the Council on American-Islamic Relations, or CAIR.

 

At Republican primary campaign rallies in Iowa and New Hampshire this week, Trump said he would ban Gaza refugees, begin "strong ideological screening of all immigrants" and reboot his ban on travelers from Muslim-majority nations if he wins a second term in office.

"Remember when they said, 'Oh that's so vicious'? But it kept us safe," Trump said Monday after filing for the New Hampshire primary.

Dang, you beat me to it. I wasn't even aware of the new travel ban. I have no patience for gaslighting. 

Just now, soggy said:

generally speaking most religious muslims are pretty aligned with social conservatives on abortion + lgbtq + gender/sex education in schools

theres a reason muslims were overwhelmingly republican voters before 9/11

Yeah, Muslims don't mind rampant Islamophobia as long as they get to hate on the gays. 

[soggy]

6 minutes ago, 4petesake said:

 

I would guess that side of his platform would hold some appeal to that community but imo  not enough to overcome this sort of rhetoric-

 

At least a dozen Republicans in Congress and two on the campaign trail – including former President Donald Trump – are calling for another so-called Muslim ban that could restrict travel to the U.S. from Muslim-majority countries. They've introduced legislation to bar Palestinian refugees and called on the president to revoke the visas of anyone supporting Hamas.

The proposals are "reminiscent of post-9/11" said Zainab Chaudry, Maryland director for the Council on American-Islamic Relations, or CAIR.

 

At Republican primary campaign rallies in Iowa and New Hampshire this week, Trump said he would ban Gaza refugees, begin "strong ideological screening of all immigrants" and reboot his ban on travelers from Muslim-majority nations if he wins a second term in office.

"Remember when they said, 'Oh that's so vicious'? But it kept us safe," Trump said Monday after filing for the New Hampshire primary.

we'll see, i dont think this will actually hurt him like people think it will

[soggy]

1 minute ago, JoeyJoeJoeJr. Shabadoo said:

Dang, you beat me to it. I wasn't even aware of the new travel ban. I have no patience for gaslighting. 

Yeah, Muslims don't mind rampant Islamophobia as long as they get to hate on the gays. 

 

muslims wont get a choice between good and bad

 

theyre going to get a choice between bad and bad

 

my suspicion is that what they just saw from biden and democrats on israelpalestine will be far less forgiveable than trumps rhetoric i think, but hey, who knows. at least itll be an interesting election

[Sharpshooter]

2 minutes ago, soggy said:

we'll see, i dont think this will actually hurt him like people think it will

It won’t hurt Trump with his base of course, but once painted as a xenophobe, it’ll hurt him with independent voters, I believe. 
 

Once Independents are against Trump, Game. Set. Match. 

[Bob Long]

Just now, soggy said:

 

muslims wont get a choice between good and bad

 

theyre going to get a choice between bad and bad

 

my suspicion is that what they just saw from biden and democrats on israelpalestine will be far less forgiveable than trumps rhetoric i think, but hey, who knows. at least itll be an interesting election

 

I don't understand why  Muslims  think the GOP is the same thing but enjoy Christian fundamentalists running things.

[soggy]

1 minute ago, Sharpshooter said:

It won’t hurt Trump with his base of course, but once painted as a xenophobe, it’ll hurt him with independent voters, I believe. 
 

Once Independents are against Trump, Game. Set. Match. 

yea im really curious to see what polling looks like across different groups as we get closer to the election

 

probably going to be kinda shocking

 

i really do think the democrats have to do better than biden and harris though, i have a hard time seeing either of them winning

 

where is the next obama?