DrJockitch Posted June 13 Share Posted June 13 Just now, stawns said: I don't disagree they have a window, bug if we've learned anything from the last decade, its that going all in for one window and missing (the most likely outcome), without planning for the future, is a disaster waiting to happen. And also how you build championships. What we didn't do was recognize the end of that window and act accordingly. Just a tweak, a retool on the fly, that is all we needed... The impatience and stupidity of our owner gave us a decade of dunce. Exactly what Winnipeg is heading into. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Long Posted June 13 Share Posted June 13 3 minutes ago, stawns said: I don't disagree they have a window, bug if we've learned anything from the last decade, its that going all in for one window and missing (the most likely outcome), without planning for the future, is a disaster waiting to happen. but.. (always a but) Benning turned out to be pretty bad at pro scouting. This group seems a lot more competent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stawns Posted June 13 Share Posted June 13 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Bob Long said: but.. (always a but) Benning turned out to be pretty bad at pro scouting. This group seems a lot more competent. Bennings biggest fault was hiring a horrible coach. The point was they have to make a push now, without sacrificing the future. I don't think a massive, long term contract to JG does that. Edited June 13 by stawns Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stawns Posted June 13 Share Posted June 13 5 minutes ago, DrJockitch said: And also how you build championships. What we didn't do was recognize the end of that window and act accordingly. Just a tweak, a retool on the fly, that is all we needed... The impatience and stupidity of our owner gave us a decade of dunce. Exactly what Winnipeg is heading into. Pretty much every ufa contract comes with trade protection, in JG's case, probably protection from all movement. As we know from MG, it's hard to rebuild or retool when you can't move your most valuable pieces or are limited to a very small number of teams. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Long Posted June 13 Share Posted June 13 1 minute ago, stawns said: Bennings biggest fault was hiring a horrible coach. The point was they had to make a push now, without sacrificing the future. I don't thinking a massive, long term contract to JG does that. well, teams who make the finals always burn some part of the future, either in picks or long term deals. Hyman will be 36 e.g. Sure he's not 9 mil, but we need a top line winger if we're going to unlock Petey's full potential, imo. Miller-Boes Guentzel-Petey looks darn good to me. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nucker67 Posted June 13 Share Posted June 13 3 minutes ago, Bob Long said: well, teams who make the finals always burn some part of the future, either in picks or long term deals. Hyman will be 36 e.g. Sure he's not 9 mil, but we need a top line winger if we're going to unlock Petey's full potential, imo. Miller-Boes Guentzel-Petey looks darn good to me. I'm very okay not playing Lindholm $8 until he's in his late 30s. That money could be used in a better way. Those would be two pretty deadly lines (above), and I'm sure the PP would improve a lot (esp with Yeo out too) It costs a lot to bring in players of this level, Canucks can't get cheap with Petey's line if they're paying him $11.6. Imagine putting this elite, world class player with Lafferty and Mikheyev. Criminal! Go all in, get the man (Guentzel). Let's go dominate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrJockitch Posted June 13 Share Posted June 13 16 minutes ago, stawns said: Pretty much every ufa contract comes with trade protection, in JG's case, probably protection from all movement. As we know from MG, it's hard to rebuild or retool when you can't move your most valuable pieces or are limited to a very small number of teams. Even harder to rebuild when you flat out refuse to do it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Comox Blaster Posted June 13 Share Posted June 13 Let him walk. $7 million times 7. Sign Joshua, put the rest towards Big Z and find some players who want to play on ANY line whether it is first or fourth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Long Posted June 13 Share Posted June 13 5 minutes ago, Nucker67 said: I'm very okay not playing Lindholm $8 until he's in his late 30s. That money could be used in a better way. Those would be two pretty deadly lines (above), and I'm sure the PP would improve a lot (esp with Yeo out too) It costs a lot to bring in players of this level, Canucks can't get cheap with Petey's line if they're paying him $11.6. Imagine putting this elite, world class player with Lafferty and Mikheyev. Criminal! Go all in, get the man (Guentzel). Let's go dominate. I tend to lean to the push the chips in. I get others like to build it up slowly, etc. JR/PA have done a great job getting the best out of the small number of truly valuable players from Bennings era. But it's not enough. It's close, but not quite there as we've seen. Not sure what we'd be waiting for with this core, if not now, when? 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeNiro Posted June 13 Share Posted June 13 45 minutes ago, Bob Long said: I tend to lean to the push the chips in. I get others like to build it up slowly, etc. JR/PA have done a great job getting the best out of the small number of truly valuable players from Bennings era. But it's not enough. It's close, but not quite there as we've seen. Not sure what we'd be waiting for with this core, if not now, when? Tend to agree. Gotta go for it while guys like Miller and Demko are in their prime and while Hughes and Demko are still on awesome contracts. The chances of winning likely decrease once you have to pay Hughes 11-12 mil and Demko 8-9. Teams tend to win while their players are still on those bargain contracts. 1 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sophomore Jinx Posted June 13 Share Posted June 13 Friedman: Canucks ‘conceding’ that Elias Lindholm will likely leave Vancouver as a UFA It’s looking less and less likely that Elias Lindholm will still be a member of the Vancouver Canucks next season. Lindholm has yet to sign a contract extension with the Canucks since being acquired from the Calgary Flames in January. The 29-year-old centre struggled to find his footing in the regular season but rebounded in the 2024 Stanley Cup Playoffs, racking up five goals and 10 points in 13 games as the Canucks reached the Western Conference semifinals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RWJC Posted June 13 Author Share Posted June 13 Canucks won't be re-signing pending free agent Lindholm: report Noah Strang Jun 12, 2024 | 4:06 AM It’s looking like Elias Lindholm will not be playing for the Vancouver Canucks next season. More reports today suggest the team is ready to give up on re-signing the pending unrestricted free agent. “I think the Canucks are conceding they won’t be able to do Lindholm,” said Sportsnet’s Elliotte Friedman on today’s episode of the Jeff Marek Show. “I never want to say never, but as it stands right now, I think they’re moving on and saying ‘Okay, who’s our next target?'” Friedman isn’t the only industry insider reporting that the Canucks and Lindholm are breaking up. “They took their best shot here, it’s not going to happen,” said CHEK’s Rick Dhaliwal today on the Donnie & Dhali show, although he did say that Lindholm’s camp wouldn’t confirm that the player is hitting free agency. These two reports follow a slew of news over the past week all pointing towards the two sides parting ways this summer. The team reportedly was willing to offer a near $50 million contract but that wasn’t enough to entice the player, likely due to a combination of financial and non-financial factors. It’s a very weak class of free agent centres and thus, Lindholm has a great chance of earning a big contract. There’s likely a team that would be willing to outbid the Canucks reported offer. The 29-year-old will almost certainly sign the largest contract of his career this summer. The Canucks dealt an impressive package, including a first-round pick and highly rated prospect Hunter Brzustewicz along with more, for Lindholm this year. He played just 26 regular season games with his new team, although he did make a very positive impact in the postseason. https://dailyhive.com/vancouver/canucks-wont-re-sign-lindholm#google_vignette Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HKSR Posted June 13 Share Posted June 13 Just now, RWJC said: Canucks won't be re-signing pending free agent Lindholm: report Noah Strang Jun 12, 2024 | 4:06 AM It’s looking like Elias Lindholm will not be playing for the Vancouver Canucks next season. More reports today suggest the team is ready to give up on re-signing the pending unrestricted free agent. “I think the Canucks are conceding they won’t be able to do Lindholm,” said Sportsnet’s Elliotte Friedman on today’s episode of the Jeff Marek Show. “I never want to say never, but as it stands right now, I think they’re moving on and saying ‘Okay, who’s our next target?'” Friedman isn’t the only industry insider reporting that the Canucks and Lindholm are breaking up. “They took their best shot here, it’s not going to happen,” said CHEK’s Rick Dhaliwal today on the Donnie & Dhali show, although he did say that Lindholm’s camp wouldn’t confirm that the player is hitting free agency. These two reports follow a slew of news over the past week all pointing towards the two sides parting ways this summer. The team reportedly was willing to offer a near $50 million contract but that wasn’t enough to entice the player, likely due to a combination of financial and non-financial factors. It’s a very weak class of free agent centres and thus, Lindholm has a great chance of earning a big contract. There’s likely a team that would be willing to outbid the Canucks reported offer. The 29-year-old will almost certainly sign the largest contract of his career this summer. The Canucks dealt an impressive package, including a first-round pick and highly rated prospect Hunter Brzustewicz along with more, for Lindholm this year. He played just 26 regular season games with his new team, although he did make a very positive impact in the postseason. https://dailyhive.com/vancouver/canucks-wont-re-sign-lindholm#google_vignette Won't consider the trade a failure for 2 reasons: 1. The Canucks made it within a game of the Conference Final in their 1st true playoff run in a decade. Lindholm was a huge part of that, and it gave our young core guys the valuable experience they need to take the next step. 2. We don't know what PA/JR will do with the $5.5M cap space saved from moving on from Kuzmenko. It's not like we lose Lindholm and we sit with nothing as a replacement. Cap space is king in this league. We need to wait and see what happens with that space before we can make any conclusions. 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post DeNiro Posted June 13 Popular Post Share Posted June 13 Yea trading prospects and firsts sucks but doubling down and paying too much for a player just to save face sucks even more. Good for management in setting a number and staying disciplined. Lindholm at 8+ mil is too risky that he won’t bounce back. At 7 mil he could likely still have value. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Long Posted June 13 Share Posted June 13 12 minutes ago, DeNiro said: Yea trading prospects and firsts sucks but doubling down and paying too much for a player just to save face sucks even more. Good for management in setting a number and staying disciplined. Lindholm at 8+ mil is too risky that he won’t bounce back. At 7 mil he could likely still have value. it'll be interesting to see if this really does work out better for Lindy. I'm fine for him to go get the bag, but lots of things can change between now and July 1. Say e.g., when EDM gets dusted, maybe Draibaby gets traded to Boston. Probably won't see them spend 8 or 9 mil on Lindy then. Is Carolina going to overpay for Lindy? doesn't seem likely either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arsenalian Posted June 13 Share Posted June 13 16 minutes ago, Bob Long said: it'll be interesting to see if this really does work out better for Lindy. I'm fine for him to go get the bag, but lots of things can change between now and July 1. Say e.g., when EDM gets dusted, maybe Draibaby gets traded to Boston. Probably won't see them spend 8 or 9 mil on Lindy then. Is Carolina going to overpay for Lindy? doesn't seem likely either. That’s the thing, if he goes to free agency and isn’t getting the huge offers he’s expecting, there’s nothing keeping him from circling back and taking a deal here, where he knows he has a place and good shot at winning. Just part of the business side of the process. Of course Canucks may have signed a replacement already, but all part of the risk he takes in turning down any deal that’s been offered Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrJockitch Posted June 13 Share Posted June 13 (edited) 2 hours ago, stawns said: Bennings biggest fault was hiring a horrible coach. The point was they have to make a push now, without sacrificing the future. I don't think a massive, long term contract to JG does that. There was that and trading away pics in a rebuild and poor drafting and espically bad UFA signings and the worst pro scouting in modern NHL history and gutting the hockey ops department down to a few yes men. Coaching is way down the list of problems that Benning created. Every coach that he hired has since had another chance at coaching in the NHL, other GMs recognize these were good candidates that had to coach terrible teams. IMHO about the only thing he did well was RFA signings. Edited June 13 by DrJockitch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Long Posted June 13 Share Posted June 13 2 minutes ago, arsenalian said: That’s the thing, if he goes to free agency and isn’t getting the huge offers he’s expecting, there’s nothing keeping him from circling back and taking a deal here, where he knows he has a place and good shot at winning. Just part of the business side of the process. Of course Canucks may have signed a replacement already, but all part of the risk he takes in turning down any deal that’s been offered I think JR/PA won't wait past 12:01 July 1st to sign Guentzel if thats really a thing, and then it's too late. I'd actually prefer we trade for JG's rights and add the 8th year to lower the AAV, and do that asap. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canuck You Posted June 13 Share Posted June 13 (edited) 2 hours ago, stawns said: You want to be paying a 37 year old $9m+? Huh, he's 29!?..who say's we have to sign him for 7 yrs?..Actually scratch that I don't care if we'd still be paying that much if he's 38 AS long as we get a cup or 2 before that time..I could careless at that point as I can rest easy seeing a cup in Van finally. Him and Pete would be dynamite. Edited June 13 by Canuck You Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guntrix Posted June 13 Share Posted June 13 2 hours ago, PhillipBlunt said: And? These things happen. This idea that a team or individual needs to "take an L" is sad. Do you honestly think Alvin or Rutherford are sitting in their homes or offices pining about the lost draft picks? No, they leave that up to myopic fans who concern themselves far too much with the inner workings and salary cap structures. Being concerned about cap and asset management is natural in a cap world. We can’t pretend like these things don’t exist. Myopic would be thinking Gudbranson is a useful hockey player just because he’s 6’5”, right Phillip? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stawns Posted June 13 Share Posted June 13 9 minutes ago, Canuck You said: Huh, he's 29!?..who say's we have to sign him for 7 yrs?..Actually scratch that I don't care if we'd still be paying that much if he's 38 AS long as we get a cup or 2 before that time..I could careless at that point as I can rest easy seeing a cup in Van finally. Him and Pete would be dynamite. You don't think JG is going to sign a max term contract with some team? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devron Posted June 13 Share Posted June 13 1 hour ago, DeNiro said: Yea trading prospects and firsts sucks but doubling down and paying too much for a player just to save face sucks even more. Good for management in setting a number and staying disciplined. Lindholm at 8+ mil is too risky that he won’t bounce back. At 7 mil he could likely still have value. Just sign Zadorov and I’ll be content with what we traded away Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canuck You Posted June 13 Share Posted June 13 4 minutes ago, stawns said: You don't think JG is going to sign a max term contract with some team? Hopefully it's us then..I want some nice things too, It be nice to fill a much needed void with some actual talent, He's seems like the perfect piece...pickings are slim out there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhillipBlunt Posted June 13 Share Posted June 13 22 minutes ago, Guntrix said: Being concerned about cap and asset management is natural in a cap world. Being concerned about cap and asset management is natural for someone with not a lot else going on in their life. 22 minutes ago, Guntrix said: We can’t pretend like these things don’t exist. Why you care is the real question? Are you a shareholder in the team? Is cap mismanagement losing you money? 22 minutes ago, Guntrix said: Myopic would be thinking Gudbranson is a useful hockey player just because he’s 6’5”, right Phillip? You do realize that Gudbranson hasn't played for the Canucks in years, right? And that he's still in the league. So, essentially he's shown more use in his line of work than you have on this forum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stawns Posted June 13 Share Posted June 13 (edited) 16 minutes ago, Canuck You said: Hopefully it's us then..I want some nice things too, It be nice to fill a much needed void with some actual talent, He's seems like the perfect piece...pickings are slim out there. I hope not, there's different ways to skin a cat and handing out a massive, long term deal to someone who's spending the vast majority of his career lining up beside the one of the best players ever, likely until hes 37 or 38, isn't something I want to see them saddled with Edited June 13 by stawns Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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