[Speculation] Lindholm apparently rejects Canucks offer of 7x7 extension

[stawns]

Just now, Bob Long said:

 

bad. Petey and Joshua were terrible together. 

 

But Garland and Joshua are fantastic together.  I think I give Petey a lot more credit to adjust his game than you do 

[Bob Long]

Just now, stawns said:

 

That's certainly an option, he's played well with Miller in the past.

 

Garland goes to all the dirty areas that Petey doesn't and more often than not, he comes out with the puck.  He'll find Petey in the slot when he does.  I'm not sure why you wouldn't want Petey shooting more, he's a sniper, not a set up guy.

 

And garland has great hands in close around the net as well.  He's probably a 25 goal guy playing with Petey

 

Petey is an elite passer as well, as we saw Kuzy benefit greatly from. 

 

It's not that I don't want Petey shooting more, I just wonder if he would, given he hasn't to this point. 

[stawns]

Just now, Bob Long said:

 

Petey is an elite passer as well, as we saw Kuzy benefit greatly from. 

 

It's not that I don't want Petey shooting more, I just wonder if he would, given he hasn't to this point. 

 

Well, that's the job of the Coach of the year.

 

He hasn't really had a good set up guy to play with either.  Personally, I want Petey shooting every time he's got the got the puck in a good spot.

[flickyoursedin]

4 minutes ago, stawns said:

 

But Garland and Joshua are fantastic together.  I think I give Petey a lot more credit to adjust his game than you do 

I do think a fair bit of Joshua’s success was because of how creative Garland was with no look behind the back passes leaving Joshua alone in front for a shot! I mean not everybody can score those cough Mikheyev cough so Joshua does have some hands but he owes Garland a dinner or two for the contract he’s about to sign.

[HKSR]

19 minutes ago, stawns said:

 

Garland doesn't get manhandled by anyone, really.  I honestly don't understand why he continually gets disrespected on this board.

 

I do wonder what petey between garland and Joshua would be like

First of all, I don't think he's being disrespected.  I'm literally open to him being in the top 6.  That's not disrespect. 

 

What my concern is, is that his production drops when the play ramps up (ie. playoffs).  Did you realize he goes from a 0.6 PPG player in the regular season to a 0.33 PPG player in the playoffs?  That's going from a 50 point player down to a 27 point player.  That tells me that his size does play a negative factor in his productivity when the game becomes a lot tighter and heavier. 

 

As @Bob Long mentioned, I think I'd rather see Garland with Miller and Boeser.  I feel Petey needs more size on his wings.

[boziffous]

19 minutes ago, stawns said:

 

That's certainly an option, he's played well with Miller in the past.

 

Garland goes to all the dirty areas that Petey doesn't and more often than not, he comes out with the puck.  He'll find Petey in the slot when he does.  I'm not sure why you wouldn't want Petey shooting more, he's a sniper, not a set up guy.

 

And garland has great hands in close around the net as well.  He's probably a 25 goal guy playing with Petey

Garland and Petey together last season at 5v5. Pretty solid fancy stats together.

 

[Bob Long]

3 minutes ago, boziffous said:

Garland and Petey together last season at 5v5. Pretty solid fancy stats together.

 

 

I've been trying to figure out who the winger was with them for those minutes. 

 

When you run Joshua in that, you can see how bad a fit that was. 

 

[HKSR]

Just now, Bob Long said:

 

I've been trying to figure out who the winger was with them for those minutes. 

 

When you run Joshua in that, you can see how bad a fit that was. 

 

I'm trying to remember too.  I do remember the eye test looked like Garly and Petey worked well together.  Just can't remember who the winger was either... it wasn't Joshua.  I feel like it might have been Lafferty?

[stawns]

8 minutes ago, HKSR said:

First of all, I don't think he's being disrespected.  I'm literally open to him being in the top 6.  That's not disrespect. 

 

What my concern is, is that his production drops when the play ramps up (ie. playoffs).  Did you realize he goes from a 0.6 PPG player in the regular season to a 0.33 PPG player in the playoffs?  That's going from a 50 point player down to a 27 point player.  That tells me that his size does play a negative factor in his productivity when the game becomes a lot tighter and heavier. 

 

As @Bob Long mentioned, I think I'd rather see Garland with Miller and Boeser.  I feel Petey needs more size on his wings.

 

I wouldn't have any issues with Garland and Miller, other than Petey and Boes don't always play well together.

 

Again, I think Petey between Joshua and Garland is interesting.  Garland and DJ clicked so well and Petey is such an intuitive player that I think there could be magic there........not necessarily long term, but I think it buys them some runway and allows them to put money in other places

[HKSR]

6 minutes ago, Bob Long said:

 

I've been trying to figure out who the winger was with them for those minutes. 

 

When you run Joshua in that, you can see how bad a fit that was. 

 

Hmm... Hoglander-Petey-Garland had 45min together.  Joshua-Petey-Garland had 15min together.  Petey and Garland had 96min together.  So 60min of the 96min were with either Hoggy or Joshua.

[boziffous]

7 minutes ago, Bob Long said:

 

I've been trying to figure out who the winger was with them for those minutes. 

 

When you run Joshua in that, you can see how bad a fit that was. 

 

The one that I found was Hoglander with Petey and Garland. Not a huge sample size but very good in the 45 minutes they played together at 5v5

 

[stawns]

24 minutes ago, flickyoursedin said:

I do think a fair bit of Joshua’s success was because of how creative Garland was with no look behind the back passes leaving Joshua alone in front for a shot! I mean not everybody can score those cough Mikheyev cough so Joshua does have some hands but he owes Garland a dinner or two for the contract he’s about to sign.

 

I agree completely, but they had amazing chemistry and I'd bet Petey would figure out how to tap into that

[HKSR]

1 minute ago, stawns said:

 

I wouldn't have any issues with Garland and Miller, other than Petey and Boes don't always play well together.

 

Again, I think Petey between Joshua and Garland is interesting.  Garland and DJ clicked so well and Petey is such an intuitive player that I think there could be magic there........not necessarily long term, but I think it buys them some runway and allows them to put money in other places

I just looked up the TOI together (above).  Looked like Garland/Joshua/Petey only had 15min together all season.  No idea why Tocc never gave it more of a chance.

 

What if Garland just plays with Miller and Boeser, and we still go out and find a winger for Petey?  If Garly truly plays like a top 6 guy, and Hoggy continues his development path, we might have 6 legit Top 6 forwards.

[Dizzle]

8 hours ago, N4ZZY said:

Need to be able to score as well. 

 

 

So does the other team though 

[Rip The Mesh]

57 minutes ago, stawns said:

 

Petey

 

then bargain hunt for a lw and move hogz to Millers line.

Tocchet tried Hoglander on the Miller, Boeser line but it didn't last long at all. Get the notion the coach would just as soon keep Hoggy well down in the

line-up. The go to line on this team is still the Miller / Boeser + whoever.  That will stay the same next year, I would think.

All this is conjecture till Mr. '7 x 7' isn't enough, makes up his mind or the Canucks make it for him.

Simple fact is; we're short one good player on each top line.

[stawns]

1 minute ago, Dizzle said:

So does the other team though 

 

I also think that a good chunk of why their scoring dropped off was coaching.  Before the all star break, the were scoring tons and after the asb (with the same basic lineup), they weren't and RT was not shy about their defense first approach and their strategy of taking higher quality shots.  

 

The ability to score is there when RT gives them leash to do so.  If they really bolster the D, bring back Joshua and add another good value fwd, I'm betting they don't lose that ability

[stawns]

2 minutes ago, Rip The Mesh said:

Tocchet tried Hoglander on the Miller, Boeser line but it didn't last long at all. Get the notion the coach would just as soon keep Hoggy well down in the

line-up. The go to line on this team is still the Miller / Boeser + whoever.  That will stay the same next year, I would think.

All this is conjecture till Mr. '7 x 7' isn't enough, makes up his mind or the Canucks make it for him.

Simple fact is; we're short one good player on each top line.

 

I actually thought Hogz looked good with Miller and RT has to let players have time to learn how to play with each other.

[stawns]

21 minutes ago, HKSR said:

I just looked up the TOI together (above).  Looked like Garland/Joshua/Petey only had 15min together all season.  No idea why Tocc never gave it more of a chance.

 

What if Garland just plays with Miller and Boeser, and we still go out and find a winger for Petey?  If Garly truly plays like a top 6 guy, and Hoggy continues his development path, we might have 6 legit Top 6 forwards.

 

To me, I think it's worth the gamble because it allows them to put money in other areas that need it.

 

Also, I really liked last years team and think they should bring back Myers, zad and DJ........but only if you're putting DJ in a top 6 role.

[N4ZZY]

13 minutes ago, Dizzle said:

So does the other team though 

lol. that's true. 

 

I'm just saying that if you build a defense that is stingy, but can't score, then what's the point right. Allvin needs balance all throughout his line up and depth. Look at Florida, they almost lost the Cup to Edmonton, but they had enough offense to win, and good defensive play as well. I feel for Edmonton. 

[HKSR]

7 minutes ago, stawns said:

 

I actually thought Hogz looked good with Miller and RT has to let players have time to learn how to play with each other.

 

I know you don't believe much in advanced stats, but when Hoglander is put on the line with Miller and Boeser, the on-ice advanced stats drop.  With Pius Suter on that line, the advanced stats jump through the roof (over 60% CF and FF).  A tiny sample size of 12min shows Garland has a similar effect to Suter, so I'd really like to see Garland play more minutes with those guys if he's gonna be a top 6F next year.

 

3 minutes ago, stawns said:

 

To me, I think it's worth the gamble because it allows them to put money in other areas that need it.

 

Also, I really liked last years team and think they should bring back Myers, zad and DJ........but only if you're putting DJ in a top 6 role.

 

So you're thinking something along these lines?

 

Suter-Miller-Boeser

Joshua-Petey-Garland

Hoglander-Blueger-Podkolzin

PDG-Aman-Karlsson

 

On paper, that top 6 doesn't look very good.  But it all depends on how Petey clicks with Garland and Joshua.  If Garland and Joshua could be 45 to 50 point guys with Petey, then that'll work.  End of the day, FLA had Rodriguez and Bennett in their top 6 with Tkachuk for most of the regular season.

 

What we then have is Hoglander in the bottom 6 which is our Tarasenko. 

 

We should still find a solid top 6 winger to move Suter back down into the bottom 6 then.  FLA had Verhaege and Reinhart next to Barkov.

[Dizzle]

27 minutes ago, stawns said:

 

I also think that a good chunk of why their scoring dropped off was coaching.  Before the all star break, the were scoring tons and after the asb (with the same basic lineup), they weren't and RT was not shy about their defense first approach and their strategy of taking higher quality shots.  

 

The ability to score is there when RT gives them leash to do so.  If they really bolster the D, bring back Joshua and add another good value fwd, I'm betting they don't lose that ability

yeah the talent is there to score goals.
 

I think this team could be really good next year, and the core is already in tact. We’ll see what happens. 

[EdgarM]

1 hour ago, HKSR said:

First of all, I don't think he's being disrespected.  I'm literally open to him being in the top 6.  That's not disrespect. 

 

What my concern is, is that his production drops when the play ramps up (ie. playoffs).  Did you realize he goes from a 0.6 PPG player in the regular season to a 0.33 PPG player in the playoffs?  That's going from a 50 point player down to a 27 point player.  That tells me that his size does play a negative factor in his productivity when the game becomes a lot tighter and heavier. 

 

As @Bob Long mentioned, I think I'd rather see Garland with Miller and Boeser.  I feel Petey needs more size on his wings.

 

I think you are looking at a very small sample size to come up with that conclusion IMO. He only played 8 playoff games for Arizona before last year. Remember for the last part of the regular season, the Blueger, Garland and Joshua line was the hottest line we had going and most of the time they were playing in the offensive zone, it was quite impressive to see. 

But........Tocchet split them up in the playoffs , which looked like a way to get Lindholm more involved offensively, which pushed Blueger off that line and down farther in the line up. 

To me , this was a mistake as that line had so much chemistry, I wanted to see what they could do in the playoffs. 

I still thought Garland was the better of our smaller(less physical) forwards in the playoffs and produced as much as Pettersson did with a lot less ice time. 

[HKSR]

1 minute ago, EdgarM said:

 

I think you are looking at a very small sample size to come up with that conclusion IMO. He only played 8 playoff games for Arizona before last year. Remember for the last part of the regular season, the Blueger, Garland and Joshua line was the hottest line we had going and most of the time they were playing in the offensive zone, it was quite impressive to see. 

But........Tocchet split them up in the playoffs , which looked like a way to get Lindholm more involved offensively, which pushed Blueger off that line and down farther in the line up. 

To me , this was a mistake as that line had so much chemistry, I wanted to see what they could do in the playoffs. 

I still thought Garland was the better of our smaller(less physical) forwards in the playoffs and produced as much as Pettersson did with a lot less ice time. 

It's a 21 game sample.  So basically 1/4 of a regular season.  Playing 100 playoff games in a career is pretty substantial, so 21 games isn't that small of a sample size.  I'm sure he'll be seeing some more playoff hockey with the Canucks these next couple seasons, so we can see how it goes then.  In the meantime, my expectation is that his production will drop relative to the regular season.  Maybe not as extreme as I'm showing here, but I'd be surprised to see him back in the 0.6 PPG range.

[stawns]

33 minutes ago, HKSR said:

 

I know you don't believe much in advanced stats, but when Hoglander is put on the line with Miller and Boeser, the on-ice advanced stats drop.  With Pius Suter on that line, the advanced stats jump through the roof (over 60% CF and FF).  A tiny sample size of 12min shows Garland has a similar effect to Suter, so I'd really like to see Garland play more minutes with those guys if he's gonna be a top 6F next year.

 

 

So you're thinking something along these lines?

 

Suter-Miller-Boeser

Joshua-Petey-Garland

Hoglander-Blueger-Podkolzin

PDG-Aman-Karlsson

 

On paper, that top 6 doesn't look very good.  But it all depends on how Petey clicks with Garland and Joshua.  If Garland and Joshua could be 45 to 50 point guys with Petey, then that'll work.  End of the day, FLA had Rodriguez and Bennett in their top 6 with Tkachuk for most of the regular season.

 

What we then have is Hoglander in the bottom 6 which is our Tarasenko. 

 

We should still find a solid top 6 winger to move Suter back down into the bottom 6 then.  FLA had Verhaege and Reinhart next to Barkov.

 

Well, garland is a 50 point guy without Petey, so if expect something in the 65 point range with him and Joshua up around 50 points 

 

I'd stick with

 

Hogz miller boes

Joshua Petey Garland

Podkolzin Suter _______

PDG Blueger _________

Aman

 

Or I might look at adding someone like Henrique or Monahan who can play C or wing and play pp, which then provides a lot of flexibility

 

What it does do, is let them add another dman on the right side, on top of Myers......like Pesce, Hakanpaa, edmunsdon, or Roy

 

Hughes Hronek

Soucy Myers

Zad ________

[EdgarM]

49 minutes ago, N4ZZY said:

lol. that's true. 

 

I'm just saying that if you build a defense that is stingy, but can't score, then what's the point right. Allvin needs balance all throughout his line up and depth. Look at Florida, they almost lost the Cup to Edmonton, but they had enough offense to win, and good defensive play as well. I feel for Edmonton. 

 

Florida took their foot off the gas for a bit that is why they almost lost. You nullify the big boys(Mcdavid/Draisytl) and you give yourself a good chance to win. We had the chance too but our offense(like Petey) couldn't capitalize and that is what you need from your high priced players. 

Some star players rise to occasion, and others not so much. I am hoping Petey learned something and his mental/physical toughness improves for next year.