[Rumour] Yzerman ready to offer Dakota Joshua north of $4M

[Devron]

It’s just classic free agency. Same thing we did with Mikheyev. Sometimes I think free agency is the anti christ 

[Dr. Crossbar]

These same conversations year in and year out over and over ...

 

We can't sign everyone to max value contracts. We can't sign him to $4+.

 

We need to keep bottom guys in the range of $3 and under with Garland and Mikheyev at $4.9. This is why we need to get rid of Mik. We can find better value.

[IBatch]

1 hour ago, higgyfan said:

**Warning**  Benning rant just kind of popped out of me...

 

Detroit almost made the P/Os this year and is loaded with a solid bunch of young players. 

SY is sitting on almost 30m in cap space, so bringing in some toughness to support the core

is the right thing to do.

 

This is what it's like when a team chooses to rebuild, rather than sputter along trying to patch

together a playoff team that might make the playoffs.  On top of that, the team managed to

pick 3 top 10 players; two of which turned out to be duds and 1 who is struggling to make

the teams' 4th line.  All those 1st and 2nd round picks that were thrown away like candy, as

well as trading drafted players with promise (Mcann and Forsling).  Then there's "why isn't

anyone taking Kole Lind?"  Well Jim, why weren't you looking at N. Hauge and J. Robertson,

who were right behind Kole?

 

I will never forgive GMJB for how much he screwed up our team.

Sorry for bringing this up again, guys/gals, but I just couldn't help it after looking

at the Ducks group of top draft picks and two 1sts and 2nds in the upcoming

draft.  Did I miss their 33.3m Cap Space????

 

Benning rant is a little counterintuitive, given that DET and VAN both entered their down cycle at the same time.    They are also on their second GM over that time span.   Holland was the best GM for 2 decades.   Or considered the best GM anyways.  Even he couldn't do it 3 cycles in a row.   As for Yzerman, he did some great work with TB, but was also gifted a lot of his core.   Wasn't he.  Not saying he won't make it work.   Of the two, Sakic verus Yzerman.   Sakic who would have likely caught up to him if he didn't meat grind his hand, Sakic is the guy who made a team.    Kudos to Yzerman realizing they had dick squat (Larkin, Mantha, Bertuzzi).   A third grader likely could have figured that out in the hockey world sense.    I'm not at all envious of his team or what he's done.   JB at least drafted a core, and traded for a core player (for a 22nd overall) Where's their core? 

 

Detroit has been "sputtering along" since they drafted Larkin (same draft as Horvat).   We were still in the playoffs that year. 

 

Im not JB apologist, but for sure don't care much about what SY is doing.     And well like those who felt Babcock was going to be a "great coach" for TO, said let's watch him flop, he did flop.   Yzerman isn't a genuis.   Not from what i've seen anyways.   A good GM and in a market that considers him a god sure.   Clock is ticking tick tock.   TB, that was too easy.  

Edited June 10 by IBatch

[Grandmaster]

Pass

[JamesB]

3 hours ago, Eddie said:

 

Dak was in a contract year, and benefitted heavily from having really good linemates who often set him up really well and a coach who pushed him in all the right ways.

Good call. These are exactly the guys who get overpaid in free agency.  Dak has had one good year at the NHL level -- last year. Not only did he benefit from good coaching and good linemates, but he also had an unsustainably high shooting percentage (21%).  That was almost certainly his career year. The previous year he performed at a 4th line level, not much better than a "replacement level" player.

 

He is not "old" (age 28) but it is not like he has further upside. He is almost certain to regress next year. 

 

I live Joshua but, realistically, even a cap hit of 3M would likely be an overpayment. 

 

This illustrates a problem with all the Canuck free agents. Thanks to good coaching, a good core, and a lot of attention in view of the team's surprising success, they have had their market value inflated.

 

But the Canucks need bargains, not overpriced luxuries. I think most of the UFAs will leave.  

 

As for Hronek, I would not be surprised to see the Canucks go to arbitration and/or sign him to a one-year deal just before arbitration and treat him like a "self-rental". 

[IBatch]

2 minutes ago, JamesB said:

Good call. These are exactly the guys who get overpaid in free agency.  Dak has had one good year at the NHL level -- last year. Not only did he benefit from good coaching and good linemates, but he also had an unsustainably high shooting percentage (21%).  That was almost certainly his career year. The previous year he performed at a 4th line level, not much better than a "replacement level" player.

 

He is not "old" (age 28) but it is not like he has further upside. He is almost certain to regress next year. 

 

I live Joshua but, realistically, even a cap hit of 3M would likely be an overpayment. 

 

This illustrates a problem with all the Canuck free agents. Thanks to good coaching, a good core, and a lot of attention in view of the team's surprising success, they have had their market value inflated.

 

But the Canucks need bargains, not overpriced luxuries. I think most of the UFAs will leave.  

 

As for Hronek, I would not be surprised to see the Canucks go to arbitration and/or sign him to a one-year deal just before arbitration and treat him like a "self-rental". 

Yep.   As long as they sign Zadarov and Myers at a 3 or less deal, we can make it work.    Hronek can be either used like Erhoff was or we can flip him if they decide they need to focus on after the OEL buyout pain is done, and flip him at the TDL.   Hopefully not.    Lindholm is a sunk cost.   That we can use or decide not to use.   I wanted two DJ's going into the off season, we didn't go there.     Blueger is cheap we can re-sign him maybe.    Price of success.    

[Goose]

Garland did a lot of heavy lifting when paired with DJ.  It’ll be interesting to see how Joshua’s production goes w new line mates.  Best case scenario he keeps it going.  Worst case scenario he turns into another David Clarkson

 

 

[Combover]

Has future buyout written all over it. 
 

Hes been a Good fit here had career year 

Wouldnt blame him for chasing the money 

 

4 mill is more than he’s proven to be. 

Seems a bit like tampering thou.  Didn’t nonis  get in shit for less with the leafs about the twins. 

[IBatch]

19 minutes ago, Goose said:

Garland did a lot of heavy lifting when paired with DJ.  It’ll be interesting to see how Joshua’s production goes w new line mates.  Best case scenario he keeps it going.  Worst case scenario he turns into another David Clarkson

 

 

David Clarkson did more.   Not sure he's the best comp.    So did Bolland.   But get where you're going with this. 

Edited June 10 by IBatch

[Baratheon]

There are going to be some bargains available this summer after everyone blows their cap on day one.

[DownUndaCanuck]

I think some team will pay him 4.25M x 3-5 years and he should take that.

We can't offer anything more than 3.5M, I'd even give him some decent term with that to be fair. 

 

He could easily replicate his season but just as easily could dip.

[stawns]

1 hour ago, Johnny said:

To be fair to JB, McCann bounced around and before he was drafted to seattle, the maple leafs brought him in to dangle as bait. He didnt really find a true home until his second year in seattle

 

forsling was put on waivers and florida claimed him after being trade a few times

 

you make it sound like it was Jim benning who passed on these guys and immediately stepped into their current roles but the truth is, many teams chose to move on from them

 

top 10 picks benning went 50%
Petey and Hughes

 

missed on Juulevi and Virtanen

 

I do agree about the patching the holes, however we dont know what goes on behind the scenes. Could have been pressured to take that route.

 

where Jim Benning smelled like rotten garbage was really the contracts he gave out

 

but in the end, Benning built the current core, Allvin and JR are filling in the holes

 

And you could argue OJ had pretty devastating injuries to his back, then his knee, then his hip in the years immediately following his draft.  People like to shit on oj without ever giving that any consideration.

[KoreanHockeyFan]

4 hours ago, HKSR said:

I'm not sure if there's any negotiations going on, so I can't see it being called 'tampering'.  Could very well have just been a passing question to Yzerman:  "Hey, how much do you think you guys would pay Joshua if he was available?" 

 

But didn't Benning get in trouble over something similar a few years back re: P.K Subban? Maybe my recollection is wrong... 

[qwijjibo]

1 minute ago, KoreanHockeyFan said:

 

But didn't Benning get in trouble over something similar a few years back re: P.K Subban? Maybe my recollection is wrong... 

No.  Benning actually said on camera they were Interested in 2 players undet contract.  This is just a report coming from a 3rd party. There's no proof it's accurate, even if it is, it was said behind closed doors. It's not the same thing at all 

[IBatch]

25 minutes ago, stawns said:

 

And you could argue OJ had pretty devastating injuries to his back, then his knee, then his hip in the years immediately following his draft.  People like to shit on oj without ever giving that any consideration.

To be fair, OJ had an aversion to the gym and even bragged about that.    If he didn't, a lot of his issues wouldn't have happened, plus anyone who brags about "can't teach hockey smarts" and a sentence later disses the guys who put the time into the gym that don't have the same gifts, let's just say all the signs were there and it was JB who drafted a 40 plus point OHL LHD (they have lots of those year in year out) on a stacked team.   He ignored other very good candidates.   Like holy moly how about a GPG memorial cup guy in MT on the same team?

 

  Ignored  that, just focussed on the WJ's.   He was off board, way off board until the WJ's and even some said nope to top ten after that. 

 

Like Travis Green after his bag skate " It didn't do him any favours" ... and this was way way way after his cocky BS comments at the draft.     OJ was a major bust, when a much better player was available, that wasn't supposed to be.   Bouchard two years younger did better draft plus one.    Organizational need?  Why not Chychrun or Sergachev?

 

And add a second. 

Edited June 10 by IBatch

[Drakrami]

5 hours ago, HKSR said:

"According to the intel Shah gathered, the Detroit Red Wings are extremely high on Joshua, and their GM, Steve Yzerman, would be putting together an offer with an AAV north of $4M"

 

https://www.canucksdaily.com/nhl-team/vancouver-canucks/detroit-red-wings-getting-ready-to-steal-dakota-joshua-with-a-massive-offer

 

Can anyone confirm that they heard Shah say the same thing? 

 

This doesn't surprise me.  He was on pace for 42 points this year.  That translates to $4Mish in terms of production, but then you factor in the size, the hits, the PK ability, the forecheck, the swagger, the grit... probably puts him over $4M. 

 

That's basically why I've excluded him from all of my projections.  He's gonna be too much $ for the Canucks.  It'll be interesting to see if he replicates his performance without Garland.

 

 

Yea Garland pretty much drives Joshua's success. This is terrible news. I think the major reason for our success last season is actually the 3rd line. 

[RedRover]

hes not disciplined ,smart or energetic enough for over 3mil. looks good on detroit . sign seider to an offer  sheet

[qwijjibo]

13 minutes ago, RedRover said:

hes not disciplined ,smart or energetic enough for over 3mil. looks good on detroit . sign seider to an offer  sheet

Vancouver doesn't have the cap space to sign him to a contract thst Detroit wouldn't match. And if they did tge compensation would be in the 2 1sts, a 2nd and a 3rd range 

[EdgarM]

38 minutes ago, Drakrami said:

Yea Garland pretty much drives Joshua's success. This is terrible news. I think the major reason for our success last season is actually the 3rd line. 

I totally agree and they were pretty much our best line the second half of the season. I don't think RT made many mistakes but I think he should have kept that line together during the playoffs. 

He concentrated too much on getting Lindholm and Pettersson going at the expense of this line. 

Petey was pretty much non-existent and Lindholm had a few good games in the playoffs. 

The Garland,Joshua, Blueger line were consistently playing in the offensive zone most nights and would have helped us in the playoffs. 

I think Garland should have been put on the #1 PP in place of Petey far earlier too but thats for another discussion. 

If we lose Joshua, then I think we would have to move Garland too and make some kind of line(s) for Pettersson and Lindholm if he resigns. 

We can't do another playoff run with Pettersson being totally ineffective.

[flickyoursedin]

Good for Dak if true! I mean management already feels priced out on Dak with others they’re prioritizing ahead of him that he’ll be one of our cap casualties. Gotta find the next Dakota Joshua are their own words. 

[AnthonyG]

1 hour ago, IBatch said:

To be fair, OJ had an aversion to the gym and even bragged about that.    If he didn't, a lot of his issues wouldn't have happened, plus anyone who brags about "can't teach hockey smarts" and a sentence later disses the guys who put the time into the gym that don't have the same gifts, let's just say all the signs were there and it was JB who drafted a 40 plus point OHL LHD (they have lots of those year in year out) on a stacked team.   He ignored other very good candidates.   Like holy moly how about a GPG memorial cup guy in MT on the same team?

 

  Ignored  that, just focussed on the WJ's.   He was off board, way off board until the WJ's and even some said nope to top ten after that. 

 

Like Travis Green after his bag skate " It didn't do him any favours" ... and this was way way way after his cocky BS comments at the draft.     OJ was a major bust, when a much better player was available, that wasn't supposed to be.   Bouchard two years younger did better draft plus one.    Organizational need?  Why not Chychrun or Sergachev?

 

And add a second. 

 

 

Okay so a couple things here...

OJ was not an off the board pick, his final ranking was 6th.  

Hindsight is 20/20, Sergachev and Chychrun were ranked lower than OJ, Sergachev's final ranking was 9th and Chychrun 13th, OJ ranked higher throughout rankings the large majority of the time. We had just drafted 2 forwards the previous draft, we hadnt drafted a Dman since RIP Luc Bourdon, prior that, Brian Allen in 1998. When or how do you plan to build a blueline when you never draft a dman? Had we drafted Tkapuke we would be saddled with Huberdone and Weegar. Not only that thank fucking god we didnt draft Tkachuk because his impact in the lineup would have caused us to miss out on Pettersson and likely Hughes. Be grateful we took OJ. Look at how many busts there were in the top 5 thinking "fuck why didnt we draft Tkachuk" PLD and Puljujarvi. Laine also had the wheels fall off. There is absolutely no guarnatee of what you are getting out of the draft other than the position they play, its just slightly better odds.

 

Also the whole bag skate shit..... Ever think to yourself that maybe OJ who was the one of the hardest hit by COVID was a long COVID sufferer? Sorta like Sutter? People need to give that shit a rest because a pandemic ripped through this world and had devastating impacts on many peoples health. Garland was puking, was he out of shape? The guy is a fuckin motor that never quits. 

 

PETTERSSON on the otherhand WAS an off the board pick. He was ranked outside the top 10 by several experts. Ranking as low as 17th. So lets move on. Its over and done with, nothing we can do about and ultimately hindsight is 20/20 thank fucking god we drafted OJ only assure us Pettersson and Hughes the following 2 drafts. 

 

Also Bouchard is playing on an absolutely fucking stacked top line..... This isnt even remotely comparable to OJ. Bouchard was drafted at the end of the rebuild, OJ was drafted at the beginning.... It aint gunna be pretty that early on.

[Johnny]

1 hour ago, stawns said:

 

And you could argue OJ had pretty devastating injuries to his back, then his knee, then his hip in the years immediately following his draft.  People like to shit on oj without ever giving that any consideration.

There was that for sure, he didnt get a clean path

 

i think tho the miss on tkachuk was the bigger blunder

[Dizzle]

5 hours ago, qwijjibo said:

Subban and Stamkos.  He was hit with 2 tampering charges from the same interview 

makes sense lol. 

[HKSR]

30 minutes ago, Johnny said:

There was that for sure, he didnt get a clean path

 

i think tho the miss on tkachuk was the bigger blunder

Butterfly effect... we may have finished 1 or 2 spots better in the standings...

 

NYR would have selected before us the following year.  They would have picked Elias Pettersson.

We would have landed either Cody Glass or Lias Andersson.

 

So we likely would have been worst by 1 or 2 spots the year after that.  We would have selected a couple spots higher.

Barrett Hayton was 5th OA.  Filip Zadina was 6th OA.  Quinn Hughes was 7th OA.

 

Tkachuk, Glass, and Zadina

 

OR

 

Juolevi, Pettersson, and Hughes

[IBatch]

14 hours ago, AnthonyG said:

Okay so a couple things here...

OJ was not an off the board pick, his final ranking was 6th.  

Hindsight is 20/20, Sergachev and Chychrun were ranked lower than OJ, Sergachev's final ranking was 9th and Chychrun 13th, OJ ranked higher throughout rankings the large majority of the time. We had just drafted 2 forwards the previous draft, we hadnt drafted a Dman since RIP Luc Bourdon, prior that, Brian Allen in 1998. When or how do you plan to build a blueline when you never draft a dman? Had we drafted Tkapuke we would be saddled with Huberdone and Weegar. Not only that thank fucking god we didnt draft Tkachuk because his impact in the lineup would have caused us to miss out on Pettersson and likely Hughes. Be grateful we took OJ. Look at how many busts there were in the top 5 thinking "fuck why didnt we draft Tkachuk" PLD and Puljujarvi. Laine also had the wheels fall off. There is absolutely no guarnatee of what you are getting out of the draft other than the position they play, its just slightly better odds.

 

Also the whole bag skate shit..... Ever think to yourself that maybe OJ who was the one of the hardest hit by COVID was a long COVID sufferer? Sorta like Sutter? People need to give that shit a rest because a pandemic ripped through this world and had devastating impacts on many peoples health. Garland was puking, was he out of shape? The guy is a fuckin motor that never quits. 

 

PETTERSSON on the otherhand WAS an off the board pick. He was ranked outside the top 10 by several experts. Ranking as low as 17th. So lets move on. Its over and done with, nothing we can do about and ultimately hindsight is 20/20 thank fucking god we drafted OJ only assure us Pettersson and Hughes the following 2 drafts. 

 

Also Bouchard is playing on an absolutely fucking stacked top line..... This isnt even remotely comparable to OJ. Bouchard was drafted at the end of the rebuild, OJ was drafted at the beginning.... It aint gunna be pretty that early on.

Please go back and look at where OJ was ranked before the WJ's, and don't cherry pick, then go and look where he was ranked after.   And be fair because 6 isn't "consensus".   Where did ISS and THN have him.    9-11.   Don't look at hockey personalities other than Craig Button, they don't count, they aren't scouts.
 

Don't get me going on this or you're going to get schooled.    MT was as high as 2-3.   In another stratosphere, landed around 3-4.   PLD was the JB public pick, if it was a ruse it didn't matter.    I'm well aware of Bryan Allen.   And Ohlund.   And the guys before him.   How did Allen work out anyways?   Not very good.   Bryan McCabe was better.    Thanks to Linden.   OJ, why do you think he was a "consensus" pick at 6?   Was barely on the radar during the pre-season, some had him as a second rounder.   Chychrun on the other hand, a year before that was considered a guy to challenge for first overall.   OJ is a prime example of overrating guys based on one WJ tourney, he's not at all the first and won't be the last.   As for EP, his ranking was right around OJ's too.   Can't have it one way, and not the other. 

 

Edit:  The Bouchard comment is that even though he was much younger, he came in and produced playing on London as OJ's partner.   Draft plus one.   The point is, younger players matched his or out produced him after he was drafted.   And he is a RHD.    And two years younger.    The CHL is loaded with guys who score 40 plus points from the blueline.   The OJ hype was a result of the WJ's.   Some had him as a late to early second going into his draft year.   The bullish folks a mid round pick.

 

On EP.   He was expected to go around 9-11.     Yes another off board pick.   Anyone drafted top five,  is expected to have a long NHL career.    JB "drafting" was affected by the new rules.    And did hit a couple home runs in QHs and EP.    Brock too really, same with Demko.    Forsling and McAan as well.     The team hasn't had a major hit past the 2nd round since Edler which is awful. 

Edited June 11 by IBatch