Is this Management group to fiscally conservative, and my wish list slash roster for 2024-25

[Tocchet.A.Hockey.God]

Is anyone else worried that JR and PA may be to fiscally conservative? I go back and forth with this issue and this team. Big Z played a major role in the playoffs and the UFA market probably dictates he gets that 6*6 contract. So if he is willing to give a discount to be in Vancouver lets say a 6 year by 5.25 mill, I myself would give that in a heart beat. Even if that means the last 2 years we are not getting top value I would be ok with it. For me he showed and lead this team like he wanted to win.  

 

On the other hand The managements fiscal responsibility could be questioned when it comes to Lindholm. On this team he is a 3rd line centerman and showed during the regular season that he was not the right fit for EP40 and yet 7*7 is currently being tossed around for him. Makes no sense to me.

 

Filip Hronek, will be the major determining factor in all of this. On the open market I could easily see him fetching 8*8. RHD with 50+ pts and has a decent defensive game.

For me his comparable come done to 4 guys and 3 of the guys all have reason not to be very good comparable. Toews 7.25 million CH 50+ point guy but is 30 years old. Weegar 6.25 million CH signed at 29 years old but never had a 50+ point season until signing. Then there is Heiskanen 8.45 million CH but is 24 years old and signed that contract few years ago. 

That leaves us with Hronek's best comparable Hanifin 27 years of age 7.35 million CH and 47 pts this season LHD. Hronek will be 27 in Nov is a RHD and had 48 points. So the Question becomes do you like Hronek @ 7.35 million CH for 8 years. How about 7.5-7.75 million range because he is a right handed D and they do usually go for a premium all well remembering he played with Hughes a major point producer and never got past 38 points prior to playing with Hughes. 

 

I think there is a battle going on if they keep Hronek, Big Z is probably not getting signed that money will be allocated to getting EP40 a top forward to play with. If Big Z is signed I would bet there is a trade prior to or just after announced with Hronek being a major piece going out. I will say this we are all in for a big treat this is shaping up to be 1 of the most interesting off seasons  in this teams history. Many could argue that this teams core is built by the former Jim and this off season is going to truly make this team the one that JR and PA built.

 

My wish list slash 2024-25 roster

 

EP40 (11.6) Necas (7.75) Toffoli (4.25) (give him 4 years that's probably 1 year more then other teams willing to go for less CH)

Mikheyev (4.75) Miller (8.00) Boeser (6.65)

Hoglander (1.10) Suter (1.6) Garland (4.95) 

Di Giuseppe (.775) Aman (.825)  ___________( anyone with .800k salary)

____________ ( anyone with .800k salary)

 

Hughes (7.85) Tanev (3.00) (give him 3 years and I think this will get it done)

Zadorov (5.25)(home town discount) DeMelo (4.25) Probably going to have to go 4-5 years 

Soucy(3.250) Juulsen (.775) (Place holder until Willander is ready) 

Hirose (.800K) McWard (.800) ( I want him competing for that 3rd rights side D position)

 

Demko 5.00

Silovs .800

 

Cap Hit $87,959,167 Cap remaining $40,833

 

Poolman on LTIR

 

Hronek and Pods in a trade for Necas 

 

 

 

 

Edited June 12 by Tocchet.A.Hockey.God

[GrammaInTheTub]

Lots to say so I’ll use this as a placeholder for now and edit later

 

/

 

[Bonkers]

I'd rather see them lose out on one high quality UFA than tie up someone that won't live up to the contract. At least you'll still have cap space later on to make bargains. For sure tie up core players long term. But are Hronek, Lindholm, Big Z and DJ core players? You could make the argument that Hronek is, if he would drive 2nd D himself. You could also argue that Lindholm could be that if he would be 2nd C. 

[Northern_Nuck]

I think this group sniffs out absolutely everything. All trades possible, looks at Re-signing everyone.

    The league average is 3.8 million and any defence man that has a decent season seems to want 5+ and any forward with a good season seems to want to do 7-8+/season. It’s actually crazy on the Agents on how high they ask  and how firm they stand. That’s why about 22 teams have no cap flexibility and about 6 Teams have to play the LTIR game every year. 
 

   I think most Canadian teams and California teams are at a huge disadvantage too. Players generally have 10 team no trade lists and it usually features all 7 Canadian teams and the 3 California teams as they’ll make 10-30% less take home due to taxes. Not to mention how much more everything costs in Canada. To these hockey players it’s a business and how they make a living… so it’s a much bigger factor than most would think. 
   
 

 Long answer short, I think  this management group has to try and squeeze Pennies wherever it can, because it’s very hard to attract free agents to Vancouver, Ottawa or Winnipeg(teams that have never won a cup) without overpaying to get them here. 

[Alflives]

This guy is no longer the GM. 

[Bonkers]

1 hour ago, Northern_Nuck said:

I think this group sniffs out absolutely everything. All trades possible, looks at Re-signing everyone.

    The league average is 3.8 million and any defence man that has a decent season seems to want 5+ and any forward with a good season seems to want to do 7-8+/season. It’s actually crazy on the Agents on how high they ask  and how firm they stand. That’s why about 22 teams have no cap flexibility and about 6 Teams have to play the LTIR game every year. 
 

   I think most Canadian teams and California teams are at a huge disadvantage too. Players generally have 10 team no trade lists and it usually features all 7 Canadian teams and the 3 California teams as they’ll make 10-30% less take home due to taxes. Not to mention how much more everything costs in Canada. To these hockey players it’s a business and how they make a living… so it’s a much bigger factor than most would think. 
   
 

 Long answer short, I think  this management group has to try and squeeze Pennies wherever it can, because it’s very hard to attract free agents to Vancouver, Ottawa or Winnipeg(teams that have never won a cup) without overpaying to get them here. 

 

Honestly I don't understand why the cap isn't based on net income for the players. 

[Bob Long]

I said yes, but it's more that I think some GM's may go nuts and just ridiculously outbid everyone for big Z, eg.

 

It also depends on where players want to be. Maybe Guentzel really likes whats happening here. Maybe he chases the bag. No one knows.

 

 

[DrJockitch]

Would love to get Big Z back. This board has collectively fantasizes about Tryamkin for so long it was nice to get a player with his profile that could actually play.

6X6 for a mid pairing guy is way too much even with all he brings. I don’t think we envision him as more than a 2/3 guy unless Tocch thinks the pairing with Hughes that he used at times is sustainable (all hints say no).

Tanev will likely be looking at short term deals in the $5M range so don’t see him coming for 3. 
That forward core is way too soft for Tocch’s style.   Mik still in top 6 and a third line that averages about 5’7”. That just won’t fly. 

Fun times ahead, can’t wait to see what PA does 

[Nucker67]

Not going to complain about this management group, at all. They will figure it out and bring in the right players. No worries, just excitement for next season.

[Comox Blaster]

Focus on signing Big Z and Joshua.  Pursue Tofoli and Necas and Tanev.  Try and move Mikheyev (too much $$ for the return).  Then fill in with free agents at the end of the month, etc.  Also, let Desmith go unless he wants to play in Abbotsford at a reduced salary, which I couldn't imagine because he is a decent back up goalie.

[Comox Blaster]

I would love to see Big Z in front of the net on the power play.  Just a thought. LOL

[Nucker67]

Prediction

 

Unable to move Mikheyev, and they give him another season (maybe try to trade him at the TDL). OEL penalty and Petey's raise also kick in, so not enough money to go around.

 

Lindholm, Zadorov and Joshua will be gone

 

Will re-sign Hronek, Myers and Blueger, and bring in a Top 6 winger for Petey (Guentzel)

 

Will sign UFAs Dillon and Chatfield, and the D will be set

 

Hughes - Hronek

Soucy - Myers

Dillon - Chatfield

 

 

Edited June 12 by Nucker67

[Canuck You]

Kessel should be ready for training camp now..he was the missing piece.

[Nucker67]

7 minutes ago, Canuck You said:

Kessel should be ready for training camp now..he was the missing piece.

 

Speaking of old guys, I'd love to bring in David Perron (36)

[Canuck You]

3 minutes ago, Nucker67 said:

 

Speaking of old guys, I'd love to bring in David Perron (36)

But can you pay him in hotdogs though? ........Yeah I thought so!

[Ghostsof1915]

I never understood this obsession with wanting to get the "big fish" UFA in the offseason?

 

We've been burned in the past by big ticket UFA's. We lucked out with Sundin, because had he accepted the two year deal. Not sure how the team would have looked in year two.

 

Making the big splash with Messier, and Loui you'd think this fanbase would prefer more hockey trades.

 

Honestly I hope Guentzel signs a long deal somewhere else, because I'm am so sick of people wanting throw away everything to get him.

 

I'd like to see the team stock up on draft picks and keep our development system, filling the team with high end replacements. (It takes longer, but leads to more success)

It's important the team finds late round gems that turn into regular NHLer's.

 

 

[Ballisticsports]

1 hour ago, Nucker67 said:

Not going to complain about this management group, at all. They will figure it out and bring in the right players. No worries, just excitement for next season.

I agree, they know they still have to continue the past untangling of cap, (while we never accumulated multiple draft assets or assets from years of being at the bottom), while our core is off elc contracts.

Management knows they cannot afford all of the players (this management team also gave these players the opportunity to be in this position of pay increases, with the team they put together along with the coaches and system to succeed)

They will have  number set for each player and be deciding how they can put the best team forward by position, who they might be able to have for replacing, I am sure they will have wanted to retain someone that they had planned on keeping, but financially for the now and future have to part ways with, and the onus will be on the players that they keep and sign to live up to the contract, but with all these good hockey minds knowing the commitment and attitude of the players involved (more than us) that they will do the best job they possibly can with some decisions out of their control

I thought that at the beginning of the season it wouldn't be possible to be as strong next year as we were this year (because of cap) , but I am hoping they continue to surprise me

[Integra250]

2 hours ago, Nucker67 said:

 

Speaking of old guys, I'd love to bring in David Perron (36)

 

Should've drafted him instead of Patty White. Thanks Nonis.

[Dr. Crossbar]

11 hours ago, Tocchet.A.Hockey.God said:

Is anyone else worried that JR and PA may be to fiscally conservative? I go back and forth with this issue and this team. Big Z played a major role in the playoffs and the UFA market probably dictates he gets that 6*6 contract. So if he is willing to give a discount to be in Vancouver lets say a 6 year by 5.25 mill, I myself would give that in a heart beat. Even if that means the last 2 years we are not getting top value I would be ok with it. For me he showed and lead this team like he wanted to win.  

 

On the other hand The managements fiscal responsibility could be questioned when it comes to Lindholm. On this team he is a 3rd line centerman and showed during the regular season that he was not the right fit for EP40 and yet 7*7 is currently being tossed around for him. Makes no sense to me.

 

Filip Hronek, will be the major determining factor in all of this. On the open market I could easily see him fetching 8*8. RHD with 50+ pts and has a decent defensive game.

For me his comparable come done to 4 guys and 3 of the guys all have reason not to be very good comparable. Toews 7.25 million CH 50+ point guy but is 30 years old. Weegar 6.25 million CH signed at 29 years old but never had a 50+ point season until signing. Then there is Heiskanen 8.45 million CH but is 24 years old and signed that contract few years ago. 

That leaves us with Hronek's best comparable Hanifin 27 years of age 7.35 million CH and 47 pts this season LHD. Hronek will be 27 in Nov is a RHD and had 48 points. So the Question becomes do you like Hronek @ 7.35 million CH for 8 years. How about 7.5-7.75 million range because he is a right handed D and they do usually go for a premium all well remembering he played with Hughes a major point producer and never got past 38 points prior to playing with Hughes. 

 

I think there is a battle going on if they keep Hronek, Big Z is probably not getting signed that money will be allocated to getting EP40 a top forward to play with. If Big Z is signed I would bet there is a trade prior to or just after announced with Hronek being a major piece going out. I will say this we are all in for a big treat this is shaping up to be 1 of the most interesting off seasons  in this teams history. Many could argue that this teams core is built by the former Jim and this off season is going to truly make this team the one that JR and PA built.

 

My wish list slash 2024-25 roster

 

EP40 (11.6) Necas (7.75) Toffoli (4.25) (give him 4 years that's probably 1 year more then other teams willing to go for less CH)

Mikheyev (4.75) Miller (8.00) Boeser (6.65)

Hoglander (1.10) Suter (1.6) Garland (4.95) 

Di Giuseppe (.775) Aman (.825)  ___________( anyone with .800k salary)

____________ ( anyone with .800k salary)

 

Hughes (7.85) Tanev (3.00) (give him 3 years and I think this will get it done)

Zadorov (5.25)(home town discount) DeMelo (4.25) Probably going to have to go 4-5 years 

Soucy(3.250) Juulsen (.775) (Place holder until Willander is ready) 

Hirose (.800K) McWard (.800) ( I want him competing for that 3rd rights side D position)

 

Demko 5.00

Silovs .800

 

Cap Hit $87,959,167 Cap remaining $40,833

 

Poolman on LTIR

 

Hronek and Pods in a trade for Necas 

 

 

 

 

 

Well, it's really interesting to see how during the Benning era fans were complaining that he wasn't fiscally conservative enough. Now that we have competent management who won't overpay, we're now "worried" that management is too fiscally conservative. As far as patterns of thinking go, it's similar to wanting a top young RHD for years, actually getting one and then immediately wanting to get rid of him. We can't have things both ways when we want something. There has to be recognition when we actually get the things we want. Otherwise all these wants are nothing more than fleeting emotional risings.

 

In this day and age, we should be grateful to have a management group that's fiscally conservative. Especially in filling our depth holes in the bottom six and bottom pairings. Also in really restocking our prospect pipeline to make sure we have ELC options as well. That's being smart and responsible.

 

In saying that, though, we're now in an era that - for lack of better wording - we need to pay top players what their worth. In key areas of the roster, we need to pay to be good. That's why we're seeing bigger numbers in Lindholm, Hronek, etc ... as our caliber of play increases to be a contender, so too does the $ per season per player. The days of discounts and cheaping out across the board are over. You get what you pay for. We're just in a completely different window now. The dynamics are different. People need to recognize that.

 

Lindholm's value goes beyond points and production. Also he was largely a rental, with the hope of being able to sign him knowing his value would likely be too high. He makes our Top 9 much better, allows for more versatility, and gives us more options. 

 

I like everything you say about Hronek. That's all sound. $7.25 makes sense. The rest is going to be up to Hronek. Imo, he has a tremendous opportunity here in Vancouver. If he wants to chase top dollar, well, we'll have to trade him. That would be an example of management being fiscally responsible.

 

But Zadorov is interesting for me because he's exactly the type of player we need culturally. We need more of his attitude and pushback. That's worth sweetening the pot a bit more. What really bothers me is that Myers got $6 million per in his last contract yet we're now complaining about giving Zadorov $6 million. BUT ... that's important in all of this ... that's a good example of "overpaying" a player versus being "fiscally conservative". 

 

Also, the prospects you have on D are not ready. We're not ready to have Hirose, McWard, and Juulsen carrying that load. We're just not there yet. We need to keep getting stronger across the board and then ease in these prospects in at key times. In the previous era, a big problem was that our D was doing too much, trying to fill too many roles at once, which led to us scrambling and creating too many holes. This is why Hronek was so key for Hughes ... he freed up Hughes to elevate his game. Hughes didn't have to carry too much of a load due to someone's inexperience or lack of skill.

 

Tanev just isn't going to work anymore as a top pairing guy. He's now entering the Ian Cole phase of his career. Slide Tanev into the 3rd line and push Juulsen down into maybe the 4th as a regular.

 

 

 

 

Edited June 12 by Dr. Crossbar

[ArmchairGM22]

help me understand canuckville

 

Under Benning people complained we threw too much money around, and didn't have cap space

 

Now we have a GM and team who are smart with the money and cap and they're too conservative

 

SMH

 

 

[Mike Vanderhoek]

Fiscally responsible I would say is where we are at now. Love it!

[IBatch]

12 hours ago, Tocchet.A.Hockey.God said:

Is anyone else worried that JR and PA may be to fiscally conservative? I go back and forth with this issue and this team. Big Z played a major role in the playoffs and the UFA market probably dictates he gets that 6*6 contract. So if he is willing to give a discount to be in Vancouver lets say a 6 year by 5.25 mill, I myself would give that in a heart beat. Even if that means the last 2 years we are not getting top value I would be ok with it. For me he showed and lead this team like he wanted to win.  

 

On the other hand The managements fiscal responsibility could be questioned when it comes to Lindholm. On this team he is a 3rd line centerman and showed during the regular season that he was not the right fit for EP40 and yet 7*7 is currently being tossed around for him. Makes no sense to me.

 

Filip Hronek, will be the major determining factor in all of this. On the open market I could easily see him fetching 8*8. RHD with 50+ pts and has a decent defensive game.

For me his comparable come done to 4 guys and 3 of the guys all have reason not to be very good comparable. Toews 7.25 million CH 50+ point guy but is 30 years old. Weegar 6.25 million CH signed at 29 years old but never had a 50+ point season until signing. Then there is Heiskanen 8.45 million CH but is 24 years old and signed that contract few years ago. 

That leaves us with Hronek's best comparable Hanifin 27 years of age 7.35 million CH and 47 pts this season LHD. Hronek will be 27 in Nov is a RHD and had 48 points. So the Question becomes do you like Hronek @ 7.35 million CH for 8 years. How about 7.5-7.75 million range because he is a right handed D and they do usually go for a premium all well remembering he played with Hughes a major point producer and never got past 38 points prior to playing with Hughes. 

 

I think there is a battle going on if they keep Hronek, Big Z is probably not getting signed that money will be allocated to getting EP40 a top forward to play with. If Big Z is signed I would bet there is a trade prior to or just after announced with Hronek being a major piece going out. I will say this we are all in for a big treat this is shaping up to be 1 of the most interesting off seasons  in this teams history. Many could argue that this teams core is built by the former Jim and this off season is going to truly make this team the one that JR and PA built.

 

My wish list slash 2024-25 roster

 

EP40 (11.6) Necas (7.75) Toffoli (4.25) (give him 4 years that's probably 1 year more then other teams willing to go for less CH)

Mikheyev (4.75) Miller (8.00) Boeser (6.65)

Hoglander (1.10) Suter (1.6) Garland (4.95) 

Di Giuseppe (.775) Aman (.825)  ___________( anyone with .800k salary)

____________ ( anyone with .800k salary)

 

Hughes (7.85) Tanev (3.00) (give him 3 years and I think this will get it done)

Zadorov (5.25)(home town discount) DeMelo (4.25) Probably going to have to go 4-5 years 

Soucy(3.250) Juulsen (.775) (Place holder until Willander is ready) 

Hirose (.800K) McWard (.800) ( I want him competing for that 3rd rights side D position)

 

Demko 5.00

Silovs .800

 

Cap Hit $87,959,167 Cap remaining $40,833

 

Poolman on LTIR

 

Hronek and Pods in a trade for Necas 

 

 

 

 

First off, you have to factor in taxes.   If we sign someone at 7.5, or 11.6 it's not the same as the rest of the hockey universe.   7.5 is 6.8, 11.6 is 10.5.   That's just the way it is.   

 

As for Hronek.   He's had half a great season and a couple good years.   Especially for his age.   Can I ask you.  Were you around for Edler?  Or Erhoff?  Before that Salo?  Or Jovo?  Or Ohlund?   What did they get, what was their cap percentage, and how many years were their deals.    Times have changed.   Get now that 7-8 years on a good season or two is the norm with RFA's.   He's almost a UFA.  

 

What did Edler get and what did Erhoff get and what did even Myers get?   Come on guys.   It's kind of silly.   QHs is going to get 14-15% of the cap percentage and he should get it too.   Maybe more.    5 goals and 48 points playing with QHs, isn't worth top

dollar.   I didn't like that pair at all in the playoffs either was shit.    QHs would have been better off with Luke Schenn.   At least he could protect him.   It's all that matters.   Hronek on his own pairing, that's ok.   Let's see if he can make it work without first unit PP time and get 35-40 points before he gets a 50 deal.

 

Id rather sign Lindholm and let someone else deal with the headache. 

Edited June 12 by IBatch

[Alflives]

4 minutes ago, IBatch said:

First off, you have to factor in taxes.   If we sign someone at 7.5, or 11.6 it's not the same as the rest of the hockey universe.   7.5 is 6.8, 11.6 is 10.5.   That's just the way it is.   

 

As for Hronek.   He's had half a great season and a couple good years.   Especially for his age.   Can I ask you.  Were you around for Edler?  Or Erhoff?  Before that Salo?  Or Jovo?  Or Ohlund?   What did they get, what was their cap percentage, and how many years were their deals.    Times have changed.   Get now that 7-8 years on a good season or two is the norm with RFA's.   He's almost a UFA.  

 

What did Edler get and what did Erhoff get and what did even Myers get?   Come on guys.   It's kind of silly.   QHs is going to get 14-15% of the cap percentage and he should get it too.   Maybe more.    5 goals and 48 points playing with QHs, isn't worth top

dollar.   I didn't like that pair at all in the playoffs either was shit.    QHs would have been better off with Luke Schenn.   At least he could protect him.   It's all that matters.   Hronek on his own pairing, that's ok.   Let's see if he can make it work without first unit PP time and get 35-40 points before he gets a 50 plus deal.  Wow. 

 

Buyer beware.   

We need to also factor in exchange rate. 30% more in Canadian dollars for guys up here. So 10 mil is 13. 

[IBatch]

5 minutes ago, Alflives said:

We need to also factor in exchange rate. 30% more in Canadian dollars for guys up here. So 10 mil is 13. 

Alf ... they all get paid in  US funds.   Do you?  At this point you're trolling me.  Get it figured out.   They ALL get more.   Bure didn't like it.   No NHLer liked it.  They all can use the power of 1$ US and buy anything in the US with it OR Canada.   Tiny advantage to Canadian citizens, they take home way more in the US so that's where they want to play. 

Edited June 12 by IBatch

[Alflives]

2 hours ago, IBatch said:

Alf ... they all get paid in  US funds.   Do you?  At this point you're trolling me.  Get it figured out.   They ALL get more.   Bure didn't like it.   No NHLer liked it.  They all can use the power of 1$ US and buy anything in the US with it OR Canada.   Tiny advantage to Canadian citizens, they take home way more in the US so that's where they want to play. 

Players who live up here are paid in US dollars. When they convert to Canadian funds they get 30% more. That’s a fact. Alf been pointing out this fact for many years. IMHAO everyone working here would love to add 30% to their gross pay.