Is this Management group to fiscally conservative, and my wish list slash roster for 2024-25

[RU SERIOUS]

On 6/12/2024 at 8:13 AM, Nucker67 said:

Prediction

 

Unable to move Mikheyev, and they give him another season (maybe try to trade him at the TDL). OEL penalty and Petey's raise also kick in, so not enough money to go around.

 

Lindholm, Zadorov and Joshua will be gone

 

Will re-sign Hronek, Myers and Blueger, and bring in a Top 6 winger for Petey (Guentzel)

 

Will sign UFAs Dillon and Chatfield, and the D will be set

 

Hughes - Hronek

Soucy - Myers

Dillon - Chatfield

 

 

It's all but 100% Certain that Lind-will be punted off the team and will go down as one of the greatest waste of assets for "a rental" player in Canucks history, having given up a 1st Round draft pick, a 3rd or 4th Round draft pick, a 40 Goal scorer (Kuz) that everyone liked except Tock-it, 2 desperately needed young defensive prospect (one of them very gifted & promising) and PA's reputation all for an old Swede that never quite "Fit" in anywhere on the roster and is demanding a "pie in the sky" raise and a contract to drag him thru his last years into retirement.   Not to mention he had the worst+/- out of all the entire team in the regular season!

 

As for Big Z and DJ, I think they'll sign one of them - likely DJ given he'll be cheaper and is needed on the 3rd line.   Hopefully they can keep Big Z somhow - but I don't know.     As for -Wreck, No way we should give him a long term contract at $8M+/yr - which is what he is demanding, so if he sticks to that demand - let him go.  We all saw him fizzle in the playoffs and lose air when he wasn't playing next the QH's - that made him look better than he actually is. 

 

Hopefully they can also unload that useless piece of deadwood (Mik) so they can free up cap and get a real hockey player for 11-6 to play with so he doesn't choke again. I also suspect that D-Smith will be unloaded for She- to take over as he was outstanding in the playoffs.

 

Finally, If Alvin picks another soft finesse swede in the draft - as he always does - I'll cry.  We need Bigger N.A. players with grit and fire in their belly not more Euro-centric Swedes that only care about winning an Olympic gold medal.  We've had 50+ years of disappointment with them.  Time to move on....

Edited June 13 by RU SERIOUS
typo

[VegasCanuck]

16 hours ago, Alflives said:

This guy is no longer the GM. 

Always thought he looked more like Bela Legosi with the hair dye..

 

[IBatch]

19 hours ago, Ghostsof1915 said:

I never understood this obsession with wanting to get the "big fish" UFA in the offseason?

 

We've been burned in the past by big ticket UFA's. We lucked out with Sundin, because had he accepted the two year deal. Not sure how the team would have looked in year two.

 

Making the big splash with Messier, and Loui you'd think this fanbase would prefer more hockey trades.

 

Honestly I hope Guentzel signs a long deal somewhere else, because I'm am so sick of people wanting throw away everything to get him.

 

I'd like to see the team stock up on draft picks and keep our development system, filling the team with high end replacements. (It takes longer, but leads to more success)

It's important the team finds late round gems that turn into regular NHLer's.

 

 

Thanks for bringing up Sundin.   10 x 2 was a crazy offer that made little sense at the time.    Funny how Nonis was waiting for all his and Burke's cap to shed, and never had the chance to use it.   In the end we should all be sending Sundin thank you cards,  a mover like that would have dismantled the peak Sedin era before it had a chance to work out.    Doubt we'd of won a cup, maybe a couple rounds at best.   Kesler came into his own, would he have with less opportunity?    And what about our D-corp. 

 

Messier could have worked out just fine.   All he needed to do was fall in line and be a good assistant Captain.   Actually hated Keenan coming in more than Messier.    We'd lost Ronning and needed another center, and at the time there was no hint he was slowing down.   3 years seemed reasonable, and cap didn't matter then.    Maybe we'd of kept Bure too.    What a freaking mess, like throwing a case of dynamite into the locker room.  

 

LE, wasn't even a top free agent, just a blue chip one, that sucked.  

 

We have done really well with trades and signs or minor signs though.    Willie Mitchell.    Believe we'd of won a cup if we re-signed him and did something different then Booth and Ballard and our first.    Hamhuis.   Burrows, Bieksa, Kesler, Luongo, Sedins, later Edper were all good UFA deals for a time anyways.  

 

Ohlund, Aucion, Plavsic, Sopel, Strudwick were all drafted over just a couple of years.    Look at how they were developed, and when they actually played.   Only Ohlund was a high(ish) pick (94 past fair bit past the middle of the first round I think).    Two of those guys became serviceable NHLers,  one arguably the best long serving Canucks D,  and Aucion was 4th of 5th in Norris votes after he left, and once tied Orr for PP goals in a single season (later broken by Souray).    Add Jovo, Hedican and McCabe to the mix,   Quin set up the WCE era (Keenan too).      We have drafted and developed well at certain stages.   It's absolutely remarkable, that we haven't drafted a stud past the second round since Eagle.    Well we did, Forsling Whoops! 

 

Milford also did this for the team.   Best drafter in club history.   Too bad he didn't stick around for another couple seasons.    Then crap until Quin took over. 
 

It is possible to draft and develop guys, the later picks, that's where development takes over.    Having Abby is going to pay dividends, a lot easier to keep tabs (and use your eyeballs) by the brass.     We still need some of JB's picks to work out and absolutely need Allvins to.    Whatever we are drafting today, should be in the 3-10 year view, past the first round anyways.  Plan for guys who come in at 21-22.    That's how Detroit did it.   To create that, you need patience.   And a plan!   A good plan.  

 

Scouting departments have quintupled since the Milford early Quin days.    A case study shows that the results have stayed virtually the same.   So that's not going to help much.   Development is where we need focus.   The best orgs, never leave their picks hanging.   Help with language, provide all the things they need.    It plays a crucial role on helping good hockey players, become NHLers. 

 

Blue chip UFA's absolutely are a component cup champs need.   Often see them targeting those guys in trades, TB McDonagh,  COL Toews.    Us maybe Hronek, or maybe Lindholm.  

As for Geuntzal, if by some miracle he's willing to come here for 8 x 7 absolutely go there.   He's a proven playoff monster, and proved he doesn't need Crosby to perform (actually did a lot better in CAR).   10 x 7?   Likely what it will take if money is the winner.   That's 8.4-9 in  a lot of US cities.   8, well that's like 6.8 on six US teams .. and 7 in CAR.   It's a pipe dream anyways.    The only way I see us even being able to get him, is another buyout, or losing someone we probably need in the future, and Garland.    Ouch.   A big hole on the third line, gutted really. 

[DrJockitch]

20 hours ago, Ghostsof1915 said:

I never understood this obsession with wanting to get the "big fish" UFA in the offseason?

 

We've been burned in the past by big ticket UFA's. We lucked out with Sundin, because had he accepted the two year deal. Not sure how the team would have looked in year two.

 

Making the big splash with Messier, and Loui you'd think this fanbase would prefer more hockey trades.

 

Honestly I hope Guentzel signs a long deal somewhere else, because I'm am so sick of people wanting throw away everything to get him.

 

I'd like to see the team stock up on draft picks and keep our development system, filling the team with high end replacements. (It takes longer, but leads to more success)

It's important the team finds late round gems that turn into regular NHLer's.

 

 

That has never been how JR or FA roll. JR hates pics, can’t stand them, does everything he can to get rid of them.  He spouted about how we aren’t in the right place to trade away pics and then we trades away first and second rounders like candy. 
JR management is more like Vegas without the financial benefits of being in Vegas. Goes after big fish then pulls miracles to get under the cap. 
If you are looking for someone to build up prospect pool, you will be waiting for the next management group and maybe the next owner. 

Edited June 13 by DrJockitch

[IBatch]

8 hours ago, RU SERIOUS said:

It's all but 100% Certain that Lind-will be punted off the team and will go down as one of the greatest waste of assets for "a rental" player in Canucks history, having given up a 1st Round draft pick, a 3rd or 4th Round draft pick, a 40 Goal scorer (Kuz) that everyone liked except Tock-it, 2 desperately needed young defensive prospect (one of them very gifted & promising) and PA's reputation all for an old Swede that never quite "Fit" in anywhere on the roster and is demanding a "pie in the sky" raise and a contract to take him to retirement.   

 

As for Big Z and DJ, I think they'll sign one of them - likely DJ given he'll be cheaper and is needed on the 3rd line.   Hopefully they can keep Big Z somhow - but I don't know.     As for -Wreck, No way we should give him a long term contract at $8M+/yr - which is what he is demanding, so if he sticks to that demand - let him go.  We all saw him fizzle in the playoffs and lose air when he wasn't playing next the QH's - that made him look better than he actually is. 

 

Hopefully they can also unload that useless piece of deadwood (Mik) so they can free up cap and get a real hockey player for 11-6 to play with so he doesn't choke again. I also suspect that D-Smith will be unloaded for She- to take over as he was outstanding in the playoffs.

 

Finally, If Alvin picks another soft finesse swede in the draft - as he always does - I'll cry.  We need Bigger N.A. players with grit and fire in their belly not more Euro-centric Swedes that only care about winning an Olympic gold medal.  We've had 50+ years of disappointment with them.  Time to move on....

Thanks for your honesty.   

 

As for Lindholm, did you watch the playoffs?   Who was throwing his weight around the most of our forward group?   And who was actually contributing offensively?    Not EP.    Lindholm was easily our 3rd best forward.   And as far as hitting goes, only Joshua was crunching more bodies upfront, was on par with Miller.   Not sure what you think a rental is worth,  we didn't lose an RFA,  just a 22nd ish overall, and 3rd rounder, which would of been a 2nd if we beat EDM and played Dallas.    We wouldn't have beat NSH if he wasn't playing.   13 games     

Hronek,  won't say it like you did, but tend to agree.   Get that times have changed and way too many guys are getting full term deals with not enough proven yet,  if he wasn't an RHD, doubt anyone in their right mind anyways, would be saying 7-8 years.    What has he done that Edler didn't accomplish?   And what did he get.   Have some Erhoff concerns too, get your payday and fade away.. does worry me too.    If we can't sign him to something reasonable (to me that 6.1 x 3, or if they believe he's worth the risk, then 7.4 x 7),  trade him to a team that does think he's worth that.   End up with something pretty good back. 

 

Fortunately they have the ability to put him on hold, see what it would take to sign some of the guy's like  Dillon,  Roy, Tanev or Pesce..then flip him for what we paid, that's some 3d chess right there, we could have Dillon and Tanev for the same price over the next two season's as Hronek at 8.    Re-sign Myers and Zadorov, we've essentially upgraded Cole, and well doubt QHs is going to lose a lot of his offense as a result.    And maybe a couple goals for but really doubt that,  Hronek and Cole verus any of the guys I just mentioned above it's probably actually a net gain in goals for. 

 

Pesce reminds me a little of Aucion minus the goal scoring.   Big body, does everything decent nothing amazing (aside from one year), blocks shots, good at takeaways etc.    Zadarov and Pesce would be a very solid second pairing.     QHs and Schenn .. Tanev.   We know he's capable,   QHs and any of Tanev, Dillon, Roy or Pesce works too.   Playoffs showed we need to surround QHs with big nasty bodies.     EP absolutely needs a DJ on his line as well.    Plus someone who doesn't miss every single time he's set up (Mikheyev). 

Edited June 13 by IBatch

[IBatch]

14 hours ago, Alflives said:

Players who live up here are paid in US dollars. When they convert to Canadian funds they get 30% more. That’s a fact. Alf been pointing out this fact for many years. IMHAO everyone working here would love to add 30% to their gross pay. 

It's a great city no doubt.   Any NHLer that likes it, can enjoy the 30% extra, anyone who doesn't play in Vancouver, OTT, MTL and TO can enjoy it with up to an extra 16.6% amount of that US cash.    They all get paid in US, sure would be nice to get paid in US funds wouldn't it?    As an aside, during the peak Sedin era, BC and Alberta had the same provincial tax.    Which on its own makes a bit of a difference.   47% is a significant difference in its own.    Check this out @Alflives.     Did you know, that Bobrovsky is making about the same as McDavid is?    12.5 in Vancouver even worse.    It's a distinct competitive disadvantage.   Until I see a Canadian team win (should have one every four years in the 90's early 2000's, and now one every 4.5 years or so),  and I'm so glad Burke recently went on a rant about this - as someone who's worked for a couple Canadian teams I believe him,  UFA's, RFA negotiations AND just as bad, players with NTC's limited, in his own words "the first 7 teams are the Canadian teams"  "until they start doing contracts based on net pay we won't see a cup in Canada".     I'm not a genuis, do however get business, and a 5% advantage is worth pursuing, a 16.6% advantage on anything, is absolutely going to be used.

 

Wonder what the CDCers would vote in general.   IF they had a 7 year career on average,  and likely would be working in 2-3 cities during that time at least two, and had the choice to pick a city where you'd earn 17% more, and those cities were Seattle, Vegas, Dallas, Tampa and Miami, or you could work in Raleigh,  COL, PIT, PHI, Utah,  CHI, DET  etc etc and earn 10-12% more.. or CAL, EDM, LA, ANA, SJ, New York, Buffalo and earn 5-6% more ... first half of your career making good money, second earned 5 million dollar with a difference in taxes between 500-800k US more in Vancouver, TO, MTL, OTT or WNP, for 3 years.   That's 1.5-2.4 extra million in US funds.   Plus whatever you earned or didn't earn the first four years.  

 

Retired at 32.    Average career is trending down as well.   Used to be 7 years. 

 

Have to put yourselves in their shoes.    They have to pay their agent, insurance escrow too.   The taxes absolutely matter to them.   This isn't a 10-20k here and there, it's 250k- 2.5 million dollars a year difference for any NHLer past their ELC, on 1.5-2 and up. 

 

It's also why Allvin is running things, and we are going to maximize our Swedish links.   Their politics are close to ours, believe in responsible socialism.  Northern country as well.   Similar province (BC) terrain.   And taxes. 

 

Edit:  It's the sign of the times.   Generational differences too.   Smaller world.   Easy access.   Canadian players are good targets too.   Because BC is amazing and has a lot to offer them.   Unfortunately, most are from Ontario and Quebec, and grow up idolizing the Leafs/Sens and the Habs.    It makes it tough on our market.    JR said he misjudged this market when he came on and they had to start doing deals.   This is what he's referring too. 

Edited June 13 by IBatch

[RU SERIOUS]

2 hours ago, IBatch said:

Thanks for your honesty.   

 

As for Lindholm, did you watch the playoffs?   Who was throwing his weight around the most of our forward group?   And who was actually contributing offensively?    Not EP.    Lindholm was easily our 3rd best forward.   And as far as hitting goes, only Joshua was crunching more bodies upfront, was on par with Miller.   Not sure what you think a rental is worth,  we didn't lose an RFA,  just a 22nd ish overall, and 3rd rounder, which would of been a 2nd if we beat EDM and played Dallas.    We wouldn't have beat NSH if he wasn't playing.   13 games     

Hronek,  won't say it like you did, but tend to agree.   Get that times have changed and way too many guys are getting full term deals with not enough proven yet,  if he wasn't an RHD, doubt anyone in their right mind anyways, would be saying 7-8 years.    What has he done that Edler didn't accomplish?   And what did he get.   Have some Erhoff concerns too, get your payday and fade away.. does worry me too.    If we can't sign him to something reasonable (to me that 6.1 x 3, or if they believe he's worth the risk, then 7.4 x 7),  trade him to a team that does think he's worth that.   End up with something pretty good back. 

 

Fortunately they have the ability to put him on hold, see what it would take to sign some of the guy's like  Dillon,  Roy, Tanev or Pesce..then flip him for what we paid, that's some 3d chess right there, we could have Dillon and Tanev for the same price over the next two season's as Hronek at 8.    Re-sign Myers and Zadorov, we've essentially upgraded Cole, and well doubt QHs is going to lose a lot of his offense as a result.    And maybe a couple goals for but really doubt that,  Hronek and Cole verus any of the guys I just mentioned above it's probably actually a net gain in goals for. 

 

Pesce reminds me a little of Aucion minus the goal scoring.   Big body, does everything decent nothing amazing (aside from one year), blocks shots, good at takeaways etc.    Zadarov and Pesce would be a very solid second pairing.     QHs and Schenn .. Tanev.   We know he's capable,   QHs and any of Tanev, Dillon, Roy or Pesce works too.   Playoffs showed we need to surround QHs with big nasty bodies.     EP absolutely needs a DJ on his line as well.    Plus someone who doesn't miss every single time he's set up (Mikheyev). 

Glad you mentioned Cole.    I completely forgot about him, likely because I assume he's all but gone after his dismall performance in the playoffs having directly caused 8 goals leading to 3 game losses - 2 of which, he personally put in his own net - and was outplayed in the second round by a wide margin as he was unable to keep up as he quickly ran out of steam mid way thru the 1st round - due to his old age.   

 

I would expect he'll be gone too unless they are forced to keep him around as another regular season 3rd string economy D.   He can play regular season minutes to some degree, but clearly 100% proved he no longer is able to keep-up with the rigors of playoff hockey.   I also don't have enough fingers on my hands to count how many times I stated during the regular season in the PGT that "Cole had a tough game again tonight" as he single handedly cost us several games during the regular season.    Don't forget that!

[RU SERIOUS]

23 hours ago, Ghostsof1915 said:

I never understood this obsession with wanting to get the "big fish" UFA in the offseason?

 

We've been burned in the past by big ticket UFA's. We lucked out with Sundin, because had he accepted the two year deal. Not sure how the team would have looked in year two.

 

Making the big splash with Messier, and Loui you'd think this fanbase would prefer more hockey trades.

 

Honestly I hope Guentzel signs a long deal somewhere else, because I'm am so sick of people wanting throw away everything to get him.

 

I'd like to see the team stock up on draft picks and keep our development system, filling the team with high end replacements. (It takes longer, but leads to more success)

It's important the team finds late round gems that turn into regular NHLer's.

 

 

Glad you mentioned draft picks because I remember JR saying he WOULD NOT trade away picks when he arrived but he's done the complete opposite having dumped several high picks in the short time he's been here, and here we are again - saying we need to restock our cupboards. Where have I heard this before?

 The worst part is that the 1st rounders he traded away for wreck & that "Big Ticket" Lind rental will be all but wasted once they are gone in a few weeks - not to mention all the other assets we gave away for them.

 

 

[48MPHSlapshot]

No. Our management has shown a willingness to go all-in, and I think they'll do whatever they can to improve the team. We're in our window now. Fuck picks. I want a cup.