[PGT] Holy Cow we did Things!! - Free Agency Thread - July 1st

[Ghostsof1915]

From what PA said during the press conference after the trades. He likes being under the cap. He wants more flexibility during the season for call ups and less dollar in, dollar out. Unless we're moving some bodies I'm not sure how Glass fits.

[Bob Long]

1 hour ago, Pears said:

I still wonder about Laine. Would something like Podkolzin, Kudryatsev, a 1st and 2nd for Laine at 44% retained be enough to get it done?

 

any move like this requires Garly to be part of the deal, either direct or as an adjacent cap clearing deal.

 

So... dunno. I'd take a flyer on Laine except losing both Podz and Garly would hurt a lot if Laine pooped the bed. 

 

Sprong seems to really interest people. Maybe having a line of DeBrusk-Petey-Sprong could cause a lot of damage? 

 

[Pears]

1 minute ago, Bob Long said:

 

any move like this requires Garly to be part of the deal, either direct or as an adjacent cap clearing deal.

 

So... dunno. I'd take a flyer on Laine except losing both Podz and Garly would hurt a lot if Laine pooped the bed. 

 

Sprong seems to really interest people. Maybe having a line of DeBrusk-Petey-Sprong could cause a lot of damage? 

 

Yeah Sprong is certainly intriguing, I'm just dreaming about how unstoppable Laine and Pettersson would be when they're both right. 

[Ghostsof1915]

2 minutes ago, Bob Long said:

 

any move like this requires Garly to be part of the deal, either direct or as an adjacent cap clearing deal.

 

So... dunno. I'd take a flyer on Laine except losing both Podz and Garly would hurt a lot if Laine pooped the bed. 

 

Sprong seems to really interest people. Maybe having a line of DeBrusk-Petey-Sprong could cause a lot of damage? 

 

Laine scares me.

There's reward, but he's been going downhill.

I'd worry if he'd fit in with Tocc as well.

[Bob Long]

Just now, Ghostsof1915 said:

Laine scares me.

There's reward, but he's been going downhill.

I'd worry if he'd fit in with Tocc as well.

 

in a vacuum, if we could have say swapped him for Mik and some magic beans, OK try it. But the downstream effects of losing other guys off our roster is pretty risky.

 

OTOH a PP of Boeser, Miller, Petey, Laine, Hughes is kind of ridiculous. 

[Pears]

4 minutes ago, Ghostsof1915 said:

Laine scares me.

There's reward, but he's been going downhill.

I'd worry if he'd fit in with Tocc as well.

I think the potential reward outweighs the risk imo, especially if he's gotten himself right mentally. Laine-Petey-DeBrusk going against second line matchups?

[Bob Long]

2 minutes ago, Pears said:

I think the potential reward outweighs the risk imo, especially if he's gotten himself right mentally. Laine-Petey-DeBrusk going against second line matchups?

 

I don't think we'd have to give up a big haul tbh, I think CBJ won't have a lot of bidders who aren't trying to send back problems of their own.

 

Maybe Garly, conditional 1st (like we make the cup finals or its a 2nd), for Laine 3.75 mil retained so its cap neutral for us.

 

[Ghostsof1915]

5 minutes ago, Pears said:

I think the potential reward outweighs the risk imo, especially if he's gotten himself right mentally. Laine-Petey-DeBrusk going against second line matchups?

I'm more worried if he bombs how many knives will be out for management.

 

[HKSR]

55 minutes ago, c00kies said:

 

Lindholm gave us 3 serious lines. DeBrusk bolsters our top-6, but now our 3rd line isn't an instant win on the ice (it's still good, but we don't have a RH center who can win 60% of draws, PK/PP, and still drive some offense).

 

I know Lindholm was a luxury, but he really did contribute to what made us a threat in the playoffs. 

 

Now Petey has to not just be good, but great in the playoffs, as our 3rd line won't be carrying the load like it did in last year's playoffs.

One could argue we only had 2 serious lines last year after the all star break.  Petey's line was atrocious when it came to offence. 

 

We know Joshua/Blueger/Garland were a serious offensive threat.  All were on pace for 40+ points each.  That's pseudo 2nd line material.

 

Petey now has a legitimate linemate in Debrusk. 

 

I'd say we have 3 serious lines this coming year, and maybe even 4 lines depending on how Heinen and Sherwood fit in.  Heinen had nearly 40 points last year, and Sherwood nearly 30.

[HKSR]

12 minutes ago, Bob Long said:

 

OTOH a PP of Boeser, Miller, Petey, Laine, Hughes is kind of ridiculous. 

On paper?  Yeah... we saw how bad our PP was with Boeser, Miller, Petey, Lindholm, Hughes was lol

[Pears]

7 minutes ago, Bob Long said:

 

I don't think we'd have to give up a big haul tbh, I think CBJ won't have a lot of bidders who aren't trying to send back problems of their own.

 

Maybe Garly, conditional 1st (like we make the cup finals or its a 2nd), for Laine 3.75 mil retained so its cap neutral for us.

 

Yeah that could work too. I was also wondering about moving Garland to help get a top six guy, since Heinen is a very similar player and he's bigger. 

5 minutes ago, Ghostsof1915 said:

I'm more worried if he bombs how many knives will be out for management.

 

There is that. But I think these guys have earned a mulligan or two with how quickly they've transformed this team. I also have a feeling playing in a better city and on a better team than Laine's ever had would do wonders for him. 

Edited Wednesday at 09:02 PM by Pears

[Bob Long]

8 minutes ago, HKSR said:

On paper?  Yeah... we saw how bad our PP was with Boeser, Miller, Petey, Lindholm, Hughes was lol

 

I blame Lindy 

[DSVII]

39 minutes ago, BPA said:

Would you trade Poolman + 2nd (or 3rd) to CHI (or other team), so the accrued cap space will be bigger by TDL?

 

I'd rather keep the 2nd and use it to acquire the better player by TDL then move Poolman to LTIR 

[DrJockitch]

32 minutes ago, Bob Long said:

 

I don't think we'd have to give up a big haul tbh, I think CBJ won't have a lot of bidders who aren't trying to send back problems of their own.

 

Maybe Garly, conditional 1st (like we make the cup finals or its a 2nd), for Laine 3.75 mil retained so its cap neutral for us.

 

I doubt he still has that value. 

[Darius]

Any ideas on how we can acquire a second pair d man that is defensively responsible but has an offensive upside.  The guys still available via UFA dont interest me much. I think once that piece is acquired this team will be very hard to beat.

[wai_lai416]

5 hours ago, HKSR said:

So do I have this right for the Canucks?

 

OUT:

Lindholm
Mikheyev

Lafferty

Zadorov

Cole

 

IN:

Debrusk

Heinen

Sherwood

Desharnais

Forbort

 

From a production standpoint for the forwards:

 

OUT:

Lindholm - 44pts
Mikheyev - 31pts

Lafferty - 24pts

 

IN:

Debrusk - 40pts

Heinen - 36pts

Sherwood - 27pts

 

99 points out.  103 points in.  We're actually bringing in more offence than we lost.

 

In terms of the defencemen:

 

Defensively, Forbort AND Desharnais were both in the 99% percentile for PK.  I'd say defensively we gained.  Offensively, we may have lots a bit on the back end due to the loss of Zadorov.  A wash in my opinion.

 

 

TLDR:  We actually gained offensively with our forward additions (in terms of offensive production).  We're pretty much a wash when it comes to the defencemen.  Desharnais and Forbort are better defensively (especially on the PK), and Zadorov and Cole are better offensively.

you are basing it on stats on paper only though. yes we gained a little bit on offence and prolly a little better defensively over zadorov and Cole? but you have to look at it we only gain if every single one of the player we brought in fits and perform to standard or above.. then yes we gain.. but if any of them don't perform then we didn't gain anything but lost. lindholm zadorov laffety Cole even to a lesser extent Mikheyev is a "known" product now we are bringing in 5 players that if ALL performs as expected we might be slightly better, but if just 1 doesn't perform up to standard it's prolly worse. it's much easier to bet on 1 player to work out 50/50 then it will be for 5 players to work out which is a little over 3% odds. 

 

the other concern I have right now with desharnais and forbot, that pushes Myers and Soucy to be full time 2nd pairing?? sure we can prolly bring in another 3.5mil ish defencemen if we don't shred cap with ltir but I'm not sure we have any asset available to swing that type of trade and if we move a player from the roster there's really no one we can really move or want to move other than garland? but what is even out there available that we can afford asset wise in the top 4?

 

as it stands right now Myers Soucy Desharnais and Forbot as the bottom 2 pairing doesn't really put that much fear into other teams other than they are big.  

[Blitz-Pix]

 

No Thank You to Laine

 

I understand why you'd consider it given the potential (on paper) but...way to many ways it goes wrong IMO.

 

He's only played 2 full seasons in 8 years.... Since 2020 he is averaging 43.75 games a season. He's averaging 35.25 points a season over those same 4 years.

You have to play CAP gymnastics even with retention to make it work,,, and give away assets to do it? I'm not sure how he is in the locker room, heard he can 

be a little standoff(ish) and quiet, But that might have more to do with the other players he was playing with in Winnipeg.

Don't know that he'd fit Rick Tocchet's system quite frankly... just to many ways it could go wrong.   

 

We may as well hold onto Garland's 35 points a season. At least he plays a full season, drives play, makes less and by most accounts is well liked in the room

and plays the way Tocchet likes. Not to mention we get keep all our draft picks. 

 

I agree that we could use 1 more upgrade in the top 6 ...but Laine doesn't seem like the right fit (to me). 

   

   

Edited Wednesday at 09:39 PM by Blitz-Pix

[Bob Long]

9 minutes ago, DrJockitch said:

I doubt he still has that value. 

 

Yea feels high 

[spook007]

55 minutes ago, Ghostsof1915 said:

Laine scares me.

There's reward, but he's been going downhill.

I'd worry if he'd fit in with Tocc as well.

Agree...

Tocchet benched Kuzmenko despite scoring 39 goals... Wonder what he'd do to a Lazy Laine? Is it really worth that big a gamble just now?

[HKSR]

1 minute ago, wai_lai416 said:

you are basing it on stats on paper only though. yes we gained a little bit on offence and prolly a little better defensively over zadorov and Cole? but you have to look at it we only gain if every single one of the player we brought in fits and perform to standard or above.. then yes we gain.. but if any of them don't perform then we didn't gain anything but lost. lindholm zadorov laffety Cole even to a lesser extent Mikheyev is a "known" product now we are bringing in 5 players that if ALL performs as expected we might be slightly better, but if just 1 doesn't perform up to standard it's prolly worse. it's much easier to bet on 1 player to work out 50/50 then it will be for 5 players to work out which is a little over 3% odds. 

 

the other concern I have right now with desharnais and forbot, that pushes Myers and Soucy to be full time 2nd pairing?? sure we can prolly bring in another 3.5mil ish defencemen if we don't shred cap with ltir but I'm not sure we have any asset available to swing that type of trade and if we move a player from the roster there's really no one we can really move or want to move other than garland? but what is even out there available that we can afford asset wise in the top 4?

 

as it stands right now Myers Soucy Desharnais and Forbot as the bottom 2 pairing doesn't really put that much fear into other teams other than they are big.  

How else do you look at it when it's July 3rd 2024 and the next season doesn't start until October 9th 2024?  You could take that perspective with any and ALL acquisitions across the entire NHL.  Why even bother being happy or upset about any free agent signings at all then?  The other side of the coin is, what if ONE of the acquisitions is a home run?  What if Debrusk becomes an 80 point player and we're paying him $5.5M?  I wouldn't be surprised if he's a 70pt player playing full time in the top 6.  Or what if Heinen clicks as a support guy in the top 6 and becomes a 45 to 50 point player?  Or what if Desharnais under Foote/Gonchar becomes a 25 to 30 point defenceman while maintaining his defensive prowess?  We've seen how Myers game turned around with their coaching, why not Desharnais?  Or even Forbort?  There are a TON of what-ifs both directions.  We just go by the assumption that the players will continue on a similar trajectory of how they have played throughout their NHL careers.  Likelihood is some will play better than expected, whereas others will be worse.  It balances out in the end.

[Goose]

10 minutes ago, Blitz-Pix said:

 

No Thank You to Laine

 

I understand why you'd consider it given the potential (on paper) but...way to many ways it goes wrong IMO.

 

He's only played 2 full seasons in 8 years.... Since 2020 he is averaging 43.75 games a season. He's averaging 35.25 points a season over those same 4 years.

You have to play CAP gymnastics even with retention to make it work,,, and give away assets to do it? I'm not sure how he is in the locker room, heard he can 

be a little standoff(ish) and quiet, But that might have more to do with the other players he was playing with in Winnipeg.

Don't know that he'd fit Rick Tocchet's system quite frankly... just to many ways it could go wrong.   

 

We may as well hold onto Garland's 35 points a season. At least he plays a full season, drives play, makes less and by most accounts is well liked in the room

and plays the way Tocchet likes. Not to mention we get keep all our draft picks. 

 

I agree that we could use 1 more upgrade in the top 6 ...but Laine doesn't seem like the right fit (to me). 

   

   

 

Canucks have a great identity going and this off season affirmed that.  Would rather be patient and wait for the right players to add rather than hurt team chemistry.  

[Mac]

Laine is exactly the opposite of what our coach wants and would not be worth the risk vs reward for this professional management group.

 

Zero chance they would do that.

[Ghostsof1915]

Vancouver Canucks 2024-25.

The team you hate to play against.....

[wai_lai416]

31 minutes ago, HKSR said:

How else do you look at it when it's July 3rd 2024 and the next season doesn't start until October 9th 2024?  You could take that perspective with any and ALL acquisitions across the entire NHL.  Why even bother being happy or upset about any free agent signings at all then?  The other side of the coin is, what if ONE of the acquisitions is a home run?  What if Debrusk becomes an 80 point player and we're paying him $5.5M?  I wouldn't be surprised if he's a 70pt player playing full time in the top 6.  Or what if Heinen clicks as a support guy in the top 6 and becomes a 45 to 50 point player?  Or what if Desharnais under Foote/Gonchar becomes a 25 to 30 point defenceman while maintaining his defensive prowess?  We've seen how Myers game turned around with their coaching, why not Desharnais?  Or even Forbort?  There are a TON of what-ifs both directions.  We just go by the assumption that the players will continue on a similar trajectory of how they have played throughout their NHL careers.  Likelihood is some will play better than expected, whereas others will be worse.  It balances out in the end.

So basically you are saying what if this guy works what if that guy works what if every guy works. All it takes is 1 guy to not work and have a cascading effect up and down the lineup. Great debrusk magically turns into hyman scoring 50 goals and 70-80 points guy while the defence isn’t working out. Or great ur defence is amazing but debrusk isn’t working out and we can’t score. When was the last time we had a ufa in Vancouver exceed expectation? How often do we have ufa in Vancouver not meet expectation?

[Ghostsof1915]

Not meeting: Messier, Eriksson

Exceeding: Demitra? Hamhuis?

Meeting: Sundin

 

That's allI got.

Edited Wednesday at 10:27 PM by Ghostsof1915