[PGT] Holy Cow we did Things!! - Free Agency Thread - July 1st

[HKSR]

Just now, wai_lai416 said:

So basically you are saying what if this guy works what if that guy works what if every guy works. All it takes is 1 guy to not work and have a cascading effect up and down the lineup. Great debrusk magically turns into hyman scoring 50 goals and 70-80 points guy while the defence isn’t working out. Or great ur defence is amazing but debrusk isn’t working out and we can’t score. When was the last time we had a ufa in Vancouver exceed expectation? How often do we have ufa in Vancouver not meet expectation?

But then we assume that if they all stayed with Vancouver, Lindholm, Zadorov, Cole, Lafferty, and Mikheyev would all carry on exactly as they were, and none of them would regress at all?  That's not a fair approach either right?

 

Apples to apples... if Lindholm, Zadorov, Cole, Lafferty, and Mikheyev all stayed, would they be better than Debrusk, Heinen, Sherwood, Desharnais, and Forbort?  Inconclusive because we don't know.  You're assuming they would carry on as a constant, which is unlikely too.

[wai_lai416]

1 minute ago, HKSR said:

But then we assume that if they all stayed with Vancouver, Lindholm, Zadorov, Cole, Lafferty, and Mikheyev would all carry on exactly as they were, and none of them would regress at all?  That's not a fair approach either right?

 

Apples to apples... if Lindholm, Zadorov, Cole, Lafferty, and Mikheyev all stayed, would they be better than Debrusk, Heinen, Sherwood, Desharnais, and Forbort?  Inconclusive because we don't know.  You're assuming they would carry on as a constant, which is unlikely too.

Would they be better? Can’t say would they be worse? Prolly not. Right now all the moves we have made doesn’t make as any better than last season even if they all work out. I’m still expecting ep to struggle next season. Every time hes out there playing without a guy capable of playmaking 5v5 he has struggled in his career. There’s no exception in the 6 years. I’ve been saying they need a playmaker forever as a winger for ep. As it will give him a guy that can set him up for his shot and also free him to setup hoglander. Right now it’s back to shutdown the setup guy and no one else can setup. 

[Goose]

16 minutes ago, Ghostsof1915 said:

Vancouver Canucks 2024-25.

The team you hate to play against.....

 

Going to be interesting who wins the 24-25 rat king award.  Hoglander, Garland and Sherwood are solid candidates 

[Jam126]

15 minutes ago, wai_lai416 said:

So basically you are saying what if this guy works what if that guy works what if every guy works. All it takes is 1 guy to not work and have a cascading effect up and down the lineup. Great debrusk magically turns into hyman scoring 50 goals and 70-80 points guy while the defence isn’t working out. Or great ur defence is amazing but debrusk isn’t working out and we can’t score. When was the last time we had a ufa in Vancouver exceed expectation? How often do we have ufa in Vancouver not meet expectation?

Relax and go touch grass outside, this can be discussed to exhaustion for the next 3 months. Enjoy your summer.

[bh90]

17 minutes ago, HKSR said:

But then we assume that if they all stayed with Vancouver, Lindholm, Zadorov, Cole, Lafferty, and Mikheyev would all carry on exactly as they were, and none of them would regress at all?  That's not a fair approach either right?

 

Apples to apples... if Lindholm, Zadorov, Cole, Lafferty, and Mikheyev all stayed, would they be better than Debrusk, Heinen, Sherwood, Desharnais, and Forbort?  Inconclusive because we don't know.  You're assuming they would carry on as a constant, which is unlikely too.

 

this post is spot on. very well said

[HKSR]

7 minutes ago, wai_lai416 said:

Would they be better? Can’t say would they be worse? Prolly not. Right now all the moves we have made doesn’t make as any better than last season even if they all work out. I’m still expecting ep to struggle next season. Every time hes out there playing without a guy capable of playmaking 5v5 he has struggled in his career. There’s no exception in the 6 years. I’ve been saying they need a playmaker forever as a winger for ep. As it will give him a guy that can set him up for his shot and also free him to setup hoglander. Right now it’s back to shutdown the setup guy and no one else can setup. 

You're making an assumption that the 5 of Lindholm, Zadorov, Lafferty, Cole, and Mikheyev wouldn't be worse... then you're making the assumption that Debrusk, Heinen, Sherwood, Desharnais, and Forbort are not likely to be even as good as they were before.  Those are some biases in both directions to fit your own narrative.  Realistically, for both scenarios, some will be better, some will be worse.  You just can't blanket statement that the 5 players signed this UFA season will be worse than the 5 players that could have continued on with Vancouver.  We just go by what their historical performances looked like and extract an expectation into the future.

[Bure10Kuzmenko96]

21 minutes ago, Ghostsof1915 said:

Not meeting: Messier, Eriksson

Exceeding: Demitra? Hamhuis?

Meeting: Sundin

 

That's allI got.

Meeting: Vrbata and Vanek

[bh90]

10 minutes ago, wai_lai416 said:

Would they be better? Can’t say would they be worse? Prolly not. Right now all the moves we have made doesn’t make as any better than last season even if they all work out. I’m still expecting ep to struggle next season. Every time hes out there playing without a guy capable of playmaking 5v5 he has struggled in his career. There’s no exception in the 6 years. I’ve been saying they need a playmaker forever as a winger for ep. As it will give him a guy that can set him up for his shot and also free him to setup hoglander. Right now it’s back to shutdown the setup guy and no one else can setup. 

 

you just contradicted yourself

 

you just said that you don't know if our old group of departed UFA's would be better or worse than last year than proceeded to say that we're a worse team than last year.

 

You're making no sense

 

We don't know if we'll be better or worse until the puck drops. There's regression, stagnation, and evolution season by season for every NHL player. Any of our current player could experience either of the 3... and the key departed UFA's (Zadorov and Lindholm) have the same chance to regress than they do stagnate or elevate their game.

 

And to your previous comment about when's the last time a UFA has exceeded their expectations/contract value in Vancouver? well ... let's see just of late i'd say Kuzmenko, Joshua, Suter, Blueger, Soucy, Cole, Bains, Aman, Di Gisueppe, Tolipilo. Which UFA has not met/exceeding their expectation? Mikheyev and Lazar. I don't know about you about when it comes to UFA signings this management group has struck gold.

[Dr. Crossbar]

[Strawbone]

Is today's roster good enough to make the playoffs? For sure. That's all that matters at this point. If the Canucks have another great season, I expect them to make a couple of moves like they did this year to bolster the roster going in to the playoffs. In that event, all the worrying about the team today possibly not being as strong as the team that ended last season is unnecessary. And depending on how well the new guys fit the system and find chemistry, we could indeed already have a better team than at any point last season. I'm kinda optimistic about that, because it's that time of the year where we can dream a little before reality sets in!

[HKSR]

24 minutes ago, Dr. Crossbar said:

Welcome back bud!  How's Hronek doing?

[DSVII]

24 minutes ago, Dr. Crossbar said:

 

Is Hronek Prime Minister?

[Ghostsof1915]

8 minutes ago, DSVII said:

 

Is Hronek Prime Minister?

Modano won the independent vote for President.

Some 500 rinks are under construction in America.

[Dr. Crossbar]

36 minutes ago, HKSR said:

Welcome back bud!  How's Hronek doing?

 

Lol ... On fire ... dropping jaws ... fans in therapy! 

[Dr. Crossbar]

39 minutes ago, DSVII said:

 

Is Hronek Prime Minister?

 

Every two days there's a holiday!

[NoHeart]

Little off topic but

Brock lesser

[bh90]

Would anyone take a flyer on Alex Nylander?

 

Didn't realize he had 11G in 23GP last year with Columbus

[DixonWard]

2 hours ago, wai_lai416 said:

Would they be better? Can’t say would they be worse? Prolly not. Right now all the moves we have made doesn’t make as any better than last season even if they all work out. I’m still expecting ep to struggle next season. Every time hes out there playing without a guy capable of playmaking 5v5 he has struggled in his career. There’s no exception in the 6 years. I’ve been saying they need a playmaker forever as a winger for ep. As it will give him a guy that can set him up for his shot and also free him to setup hoglander. Right now it’s back to shutdown the setup guy and no one else can setup. 

I don't know if it's been mentioned but we passed on 21.85 million for our 5 guys and brought in 13.45.  Plus the only really long term deal went to a 27 year old 25 goal scorer at 7 years.  He'll be 34. Same age as Tanev when he starts his new 6 year deal.

[Nucker67]

8 minutes ago, DixonWard said:

I don't know if it's been mentioned but we passed on 21.85 million for our 5 guys and brought in 13.45.  Plus the only really long term deal went to a 27 year old 25 goal scorer at 7 years.  He'll be 34. Same age as Tanev when he starts his new 6 year deal.

 

Some smart moves, can't wait to see what kind of impact DeBrusk and Sherwood have.

 

I still think the Canucks need one more top 6 winger and a LD.  Not a lot of quality UFAs left to choose from. Maybe Allvin will make a couple of trades.

[tas]

edit: wrong thread

Edited Thursday at 02:47 AM by tas

[Blitz-Pix]

1 hour ago, Nucker67 said:

 

Some smart moves, can't wait to see what kind of impact DeBrusk and Sherwood have.

 

I still think the Canucks need one more top 6 winger and a LD.  Not a lot of quality UFAs left to choose from. Maybe Allvin will make a couple of trades.

 

 

IMO the moves we made were mostly short term commitments at reasonable money. They provide good value while us getting through a portion of 

the OEL buyout and not blocking out any of our prospects if & when they make the jump to the next level. If one or more of these guys doesn't work out or doesn't fit our system/style they're all on tradable contracts.   

 

Fortbort      - 1 year at $1.5

Desharnais -  2 years at $2

Sherwood  - 2 years at $1.5

Heinen   -    2 years at $2.25

 

I think we raised the team floor and became faster and harder to play against up front. While we got bigger on the back end, I think our D-core

lost a little overall speed and experience. I think Tocchet and Foote's system is gonna have to rely more on the forwards getting back and 

playing even more of a 200 foot game to be successful. Looking at the forwards we just signed that seems to be a hallmark of their game.

 

If I'm being honest with my myself I would give us a C+ grade this offseason. Lots to like but still a few question marks.  If Foote & Gonchar can 

mold Desharnais & Forbort's game the way they did Myers last season I'd give us a B.   

 

 

 

 

 

Edited Thursday at 02:57 AM by Blitz-Pix

[Jester13]

3 minutes ago, Blitz-Pix said:

 

 

IMO the moves we made were mostly short term commitments at reasonable money. They provide good value while us getting through a portion of 

the OEL buyout and not blocking out any of our prospects if & when they make the jump to the next level. If one or more of these guys doesn't work out or 

fit with our system/style they're all on tradable contracts.   

 

Fortbort      - 1 year at $1.5

Desharnais -  2 years at $2

Sherwood  - 2 years at $1.5

Heinen   -    2 years at $2.25

 

I think we raised the team floor and became faster and harder to play against up front. While we got bigger on the back end, I think our D-core

lost a little overall speed and experience. I think Tocchet and Foote's system is gonna have to rely more on the forwards getting back and 

playing even more of a 200 foot game to be successful. Looking at the forwards we just signed that seems to be a hallmark of their game.

 

If I'm being honest with my myself I would give us a C+ grade this offseason. Lots to like but still a few question marks.  If Foote and Gonchar can 

mold Desharnais & Forbort's game the way they did Myers last season I'd give us a B.   

 

 

 

 

 

I think C+ is low. I'd give them at least a B and creeping to B+, as Allvin has been able to keep us as good as last year while having to give Hronek, Petey, and Joshua 10+million in raises, while still giving us cap flexibility. Plus, our lineup is balanced up front and on D (no more two lefties). And we're younger. And we're more internally competitive. And no more bad contracts. 

[Pianoman]

3 minutes ago, Jester13 said:

I think C+ is low. I'd give them at least a B and creeping to B+, as Allvin has been able to keep us as good as last year while having to give Hronek, Petey, and Joshua 10+million in raises, while still giving us cap flexibility. Plus, our lineup is balanced up front and on D (no more two lefties). And we're younger. And we're more internally competitive. And no more bad contracts. 

I agree. I’m thinking at least B+ if not A

 

Everything I read talks about how good the DeBrusk signing was. 

[Jester13]

7 minutes ago, Pianoman said:

I agree. I’m thinking at least B+ if not A

 

Everything I read talks about how good the DeBrusk signing was. 

I'm with ya on JD. People who don't like the signing are thinking about his struggles under Cassidy. But he's progressed very well and will be so much better than those people think. Amazing analytics and will be the next JT Miller Lite for us. 

[DeNiro]

3 minutes ago, Jester13 said:

I'm with ya on JD. People who don't like the signing are thinking about his struggles under Cassidy. But he's progressed very well and will be so much better than those people think. Amazing analytics and will be the next JT Miller Lite for us. 

Tocchet will be his third coach since entering the league.

 

All 3 of his coaches are Jack Adams winners.

 

He has been very well coached. Not worried about his ability to fit in nicely.