[PGT] Holy Cow we did Things!! - Free Agency Thread - July 1st

[DSVII]

It's not over yet. We still need to sign Silovs. Hope we lock him in.

[BC_Hawk]

1 hour ago, testycal said:

I think as a Canuck fan I will have to put aside flashes of brilliance and toughness that Z will bring ....the comment that team toughness has been improved cannot be overstated ..toughness  by commitee spread over a number of plays is not a bad thing...Z was not a bad thing either..if Z could have stayed with new current lineup...preferred but did not happen...such is life

The problem lies in that you can only have 6 guys on the ice at once. As such, having a guy that showed he could play Top 4 in RT's system and provide toughness had intrinsic value; he was known commodity.

 

Toughness by committee is great, but we are cooked if Des or Forbort are playing in our Top 4.

[HarbularyBattery]

17 hours ago, HKSR said:

But then we assume that if they all stayed with Vancouver, Lindholm, Zadorov, Cole, Lafferty, and Mikheyev would all carry on exactly as they were, and none of them would regress at all?  That's not a fair approach either right?

 

Apples to apples... if Lindholm, Zadorov, Cole, Lafferty, and Mikheyev all stayed, would they be better than Debrusk, Heinen, Sherwood, Desharnais, and Forbort?  Inconclusive because we don't know.  You're assuming they would carry on as a constant, which is unlikely too.

L Z C L M =
1. More potential *star power* (lindholm is probably the best forward out of both groups + gives incredible center depth)

2. WAY more expensive. 22 million for this group. Vs. 13m for the new group

3. Old group has 2 defensemen who CAN play in your top-4 

 

D H S D F = 

 

1. Better penalty killers. We should win more of the special teams battles with this group.

2. None of the old group wingers worked with Petey. Good chance someone from the new group does. 

3. Potential for all players to outperform their contracts. High chance old group would regress and underperform contracts (except Mikheyev - bounce back candidate)

 

I also look at it like this- cap space accrual. If we do nothing else for now, and sit tight until the deadline, we should have about 5m to work with (including moving a player out). Provorov, Ehlers, Konecny, Rasmus andersson are examples of guys who will likely be rentals if their teams dont make the playoffs. 

 

So the real comparison, going into the playoffs:

 

Lindholm, Zadorov, Cole, Lafferty, Mikheyev

 

OR

 

High-ticket Rental, Debrusk, Heinen, Sherwood, Desharnais, Forbort

 

New group is better no question

[HKSR]

41 minutes ago, BC_Hawk said:

The problem lies in that you can only have 6 guys on the ice at once. As such, having a guy that showed he could play Top 4 in RT's system and provide toughness had intrinsic value; he was known commodity.

 

Toughness by committee is great, but we are cooked if Des or Forbort are playing in our Top 4.

In fairness, we went into last season with Hughes, Hronek, Soucy, Myers, Cole, Juulsen, and Friedman... that was before Chaos Giraffe became a Calm Giraffe.  There were a lot of unknowns with that group, no different than this current group.  The one constant is that Foote and Gonchar are coaching our defencemen, and let's face it, there is a dramatic improvement in nearly every single defenceman that has spent any time here with those 2 top end coaches.

[VanOriginal]

6 hours ago, iinatcc said:

 

I think a B is too high especially if the goal is to go all in with this core. 

 

A lot of the optimism seems to be that the team can hit lightning in a bottle again. The team got really good value from their depth players last season having either their career year or near career years. It's hard to imagine something like last season can happen again, based on probability. 

 

I will say the "C" is about right. Average score, the team floor has risen but the ceiling might be compromised slightly with the loss of Zadorov. 

 

And there's the question if Brock can repeat his performance from last season or would there be a drop off. It's hard to tell with Brock because he hasn't really put a consistent sent of seasons. He can be awesome one season and ok the next few and awseome again. 

 

Of course Petey performing better than last season could negate most of this. 

 

I disagree with the C, that is extremely low, especially if it's being based on not re-signing Zadorov. I like Zadorov, I liked his game in the playoffs but can he replicate that for a whole regular season? 'cause he wasn't that playoff player during the regular season. 

As you mentioned will the depth players hit lightening in bottle, I can ask the same about Z? Will he hit that bottle with the lightening that he found in the Playsoffs? Probability says no, as he had a career playoff year and would be difficult to replicate that performance in playoffs let alone for half of a regular season. 

The forwards brought in are all just as good if not better defensively than the the Forward group the team had last year. Big part of team defence also falls on the forwards and their willingness and ability to do their fair share. And the toughness lost from Z again will be covered by the forwards brought in as these forwards are more aggressive and assertive than the ones form last year. The big difference on D this year is the loss of speed and the first pass, but I think that can be addressed either by trade or team system.

I don't think that all of our players will have a similar year like last. Will Boes hit 40 again? Probably no but 30 sure. Will DJ produce the se of amour of goals/points? Again probably not but another one of the played brought in could as they have all produced consistently over the course of their careers. I can see Petey having more of an impact this year compared to last, especially if what he said was true that he was playing with a bum knee for the second half of the season. And I think a lot of people are sleeping on DeBrusk, I think he will have a career a year playing on this te just as JTM did once he came over from Tampa. 

 

 

[Warhippy]

Calen Addison

Or

Adam Boqvist?

 

Gonchar/Foote can probably get something out of both.  Both RHD and both maligned in their roles.

 

Boqvist can still actually skate.  Is only 23 and could be one of those late bloomers.  He can move the puck but has played on absolutely garbage teams that expected the world from him.

 

Sticking him with someone that can capably watch the house while he roams could give him the freedom to do what he's good at.  Allowing him on the 2nd unit as an RHD option with good coaching and a quality group of defensively responsible forwards could allow him to develop in to what he's capable of.

 

Go

Get

Boqvist!

[Dr. Crossbar]

11 minutes ago, HKSR said:

In fairness, we went into last season with Hughes, Hronek, Soucy, Myers, Cole, Juulsen, and Friedman... that was before Chaos Giraffe became a Calm Giraffe.  There were a lot of unknowns with that group, no different than this current group.  The one constant is that Foote and Gonchar are coaching our defencemen, and let's face it, there is a dramatic improvement in nearly every single defenceman that has spent any time here with those 2 top end coaches.

 

Good point about the unknowns last year. It is very similar. I think there may be a bit more upside this season.

 

Also factor in another year of experience under Juulsen's belt and Friedman familiar in his depth role/system.

 

But we can't have too many guys playing over their heads and overcompensating. That's key. 

[HarbularyBattery]

10 minutes ago, Warhippy said:

Calen Addison

Or

Adam Boqvist?

 

Gonchar/Foote can probably get something out of both.  Both RHD and both maligned in their roles.

 

Boqvist can still actually skate.  Is only 23 and could be one of those late bloomers.  He can move the puck but has played on absolutely garbage teams that expected the world from him.

 

Sticking him with someone that can capably watch the house while he roams could give him the freedom to do what he's good at.  Allowing him on the 2nd unit as an RHD option with good coaching and a quality group of defensively responsible forwards could allow him to develop in to what he's capable of.

 

Go

Get

Boqvist!

neither, save the cap space, accrue, and then swing for the fences and get a gamebreaker at the TDL

[spook007]

9 minutes ago, Dr. Crossbar said:

 

Good point about the unknowns last year. It is very similar. I think there may be a bit more upside this season.

 

Also factor in another year of experience under Juulsen's belt and Friedman familiar in his depth role/system.

 

But we can't have too many guys playing over their heads and overcompensating. That's key. 

 

Same as don't try out too many 'projects', just because they may come around... we have a team, don't screw it up...

[HarbularyBattery]

Just now, spook007 said:

 

Same as don't try out too many 'projects', just because they may come around... we have a team, don't screw it up...

agreed, i think the only real "project" though is desharnais

 

everyone else is a proven commodity in the role we're expecting them to play

[spook007]

Just now, HarbularyBattery said:

agreed, i think the only real "project" though is desharnais

 

everyone else is a proven commodity in the role we're expecting them to play

We have a top line winger waiting in the wings (hopefully), and we have a top 4RHD waiting in the wings (hopefully).

 

To me this is about finding the correct balance and support to the team, with the outlook of these two taking up spots, when the money gets tight next year...

We have a team, and beside Z the team is the same, so no reason to believe they can cope and will be successful as is... 

 

Really like the look of this team as it is just now...

[Jester13]

4 minutes ago, spook007 said:

We have a top line winger waiting in the wings (hopefully), and we have a top 4RHD waiting in the wings (hopefully).

 

To me this is about finding the correct balance and support to the team, with the outlook of these two taking up spots, when the money gets tight next year...

We have a team, and beside Z the team is the same, so no reason to believe they can cope and will be successful as is... 

 

Really like the look of this team as it is just now...

All while giving raises to Hronek, Petey, and Joshua. Impressive work by Allvin & Co.

[HarbularyBattery]

Just now, Jester13 said:

All while giving raises to Hronek, Petey, and Joshua. Impressive work by Allvin & Co.

yea this 

 

i think were conditioned to wait a massive overhaul because we've sucked so bad for so long

 

but if youve got a winning formula why throw it all a way? clearly the group they put together works, they just need to make incremental improvements to it, not complete revamp

[Rip The Mesh]

Would have meant a lot to this team to have had Zadorov stay. Guys like him don't grow on trees. Big loss. If my understanding is right, he didn't want to

stay with the Canucks. If it was a matter of term and or money, Alvin probably should have paid it. 

I could care less about Lindholm,

[Bob Long]

4 minutes ago, Rip The Mesh said:

Would have meant a lot to this team to have had Zadorov stay. Guys like him don't grow on trees. Big loss. If my understanding is right, he didn't want to

stay with the Canucks. If it was a matter of term and or money, Alvin probably should have paid it. 

I could care less about Lindholm,

 

It does stink, for sure.

 

Z wasn't much of a fighter, it was his open ice hits that got our attention. That's gone, but the two new guys play a heavy game too. It might not be as spectacular but I expect under Footes guidance we might see better overall play.

 

[German Canuck]

15 minutes ago, Rip The Mesh said:

Would have meant a lot to this team to have had Zadorov stay. Guys like him don't grow on trees. Big loss. If my understanding is right, he didn't want to

stay with the Canucks. If it was a matter of term and or money, Alvin probably should have paid it. 

I could care less about Lindholm,

It was fun to have Zadorov here but he is not a 5M player for the next 6 years.

You cant pay a 5/6 guy this amount of money if you want a well balanced roster like the Canucks now have.

 

[Gawdzukes]

13 hours ago, German Canuck said:

Massive overpay

 

People really get blinded by a couple big hits. Not a bad player, not an overly good player either. He's decent, average, but not worth top dollar, and for term either. Huge overpay for a bottom pairing defender. That's like paying Joshua $5 mil for 6 years and wondering why you have no cap space.

[Dr. Crossbar]

Some really need to accept that Benning is gone. This management isn't the same. 

[Dr. Crossbar]

41 minutes ago, Jester13 said:

All while giving raises to Hronek, Petey, and Joshua. Impressive work by Allvin & Co.

 

Also shows just how much all the crying, whining, rocking back and forth, doom and gloom, willing the negative to happen "concern" was unnecessary.

[EdgarM]

2 hours ago, BC_Hawk said:

The problem lies in that you can only have 6 guys on the ice at once. As such, having a guy that showed he could play Top 4 in RT's system and provide toughness had intrinsic value; he was known commodity.

 

Toughness by committee is great, but we are cooked if Des or Forbort are playing in our Top 4.

This is my main issue. Myers is inconsistent, to say the least, and his numbers throughout his career prove that. Yes he had a good year last year but he had a fairly good one the year before last as well and then flopped the next. Has Soucy ever played a full season? 

I think size in the back is great, but relying on Soucy and Myers to carry most of the load behind Hronek/Hughes is going to prove to be a tall task if we want them for a full 82 games and then a long run in the playoffs.

With Z wanting to stay for less, and him taking 5, meant that he would have stayed for LESS THEN 5, and since we have cap room left over, meant we could have bettered our top 4 by more then just giving Myers anothers 3 yrs at 3m per year IMHO.

I love the bottom pairing we picked up but I sure hope Myers and Soucy show us something different then what we have come to expect from them. Fingers crossed.

[BC_Hawk]

1 hour ago, HKSR said:

In fairness, we went into last season with Hughes, Hronek, Soucy, Myers, Cole, Juulsen, and Friedman... that was before Chaos Giraffe became a Calm Giraffe.  There were a lot of unknowns with that group, no different than this current group.  The one constant is that Foote and Gonchar are coaching our defencemen, and let's face it, there is a dramatic improvement in nearly every single defenceman that has spent any time here with those 2 top end coaches.

Yes, that's how we started. Then, Soucy got hurt, we played the hell out of Cole, and were lucky that Juulsen and Friedman played well when asked to. Cole started the year as a top 3 guy in terms quality of play, but just got driven into the ground and never could recover. Would have been nice to have him somewhat fresh in POs.

 

My guess is the current group will start camp and the year. If someone doesn't emerge and steal the show, PA will be looking to do a trade in Nov and Dec (ala 2023). I'm OK with with this.

 

My frustration stems from the fact that we had a guy that fit the mold, and would have served us well and solidified the D for the next 4-5 years (Zad). Sounds like the $$ was the same, just term was the issue (4/5 vs 6yrs). I would have liked to see PA resign him OR go after another bonified Top 4 in FA (like Roy). Instead, we spent 3.5m on potential and depth; not proven Top 4 players. It was nice not having to worry about the D, and focus in on Top6 fwds. Oh well.......

[BC_Hawk]

1 hour ago, Dr. Crossbar said:

 

Good point about the unknowns last year. It is very similar. I think there may be a bit more upside this season.

 

Also factor in another year of experience under Juulsen's belt and Friedman familiar in his depth role/system.

 

But we can't have too many guys playing over their heads and overcompensating. That's key. 

That's my concern. One more true Top 4 would have allowed us to experiment and develop on the bottom pair.

[BC_Hawk]

1 hour ago, HarbularyBattery said:

agreed, i think the only real "project" though is desharnais

 

everyone else is a proven commodity in the role we're expecting them to play

BUT he is a 2m project where his most likely landing spot we had some depth (3rd RHD). I like Forbort (3rd LHD)...not sold on Des with Juulsen, Friedman, etc ready to fill the spot.

[BC_Hawk]

50 minutes ago, Gawdzukes said:

 

People really get blinded by a couple big hits. Not a bad player, not an overly good player either. He's decent, average, but not worth top dollar, and for term either. Huge overpay for a bottom pairing defender. That's like paying Joshua $5 mil for 6 years and wondering why you have no cap space.

Don't 100% disagree, but then replace him with a player worth the $. Jury is stil out on that one...don't think PA is done.

[DeNiro]

1 hour ago, HarbularyBattery said:

neither, save the cap space, accrue, and then swing for the fences and get a gamebreaker at the TDL

I go back and forth on that.

 

Yes having cap space at the deadline would be huge.

Issue being to be a buyer at the deadline you gotta be in the playoff hunt. Is that a good enough D to get us through 5 months of the regular season? I’m not so sure. One injury and that D gets real ugly real quick.

 

I think they’re gonna have to make a trade at some point in the next few months.

 

 

Edited Thursday at 06:47 PM by DeNiro