[PGT] Holy Cow we did Things!! - Free Agency Thread - July 1st

[Bob Long]

59 minutes ago, Gawdzukes said:

 

People really get blinded by a couple big hits. Not a bad player, not an overly good player either. He's decent, average, but not worth top dollar, and for term either. Huge overpay for a bottom pairing defender. That's like paying Joshua $5 mil for 6 years and wondering why you have no cap space.

 

I think it's a bit of a hangover from being pushed around for so long. "Fun to play against" as the man said. 

[Jaimito]

 

 

[Dr. Crossbar]

14 minutes ago, BC_Hawk said:

That's my concern. One more true Top 4 would have allowed us to experiment and develop on the bottom pair.

 

I think management will address that. They're aware of it. I think Allvin took a question about it in the most recent press conf.

 

I'm thinking they may go into the season to see just what we have in this blueline first.

[Sika21]

21 minutes ago, BC_Hawk said:

BUT he is a 2m project where his most likely landing spot we had some depth (3rd RHD). I like Forbort (3rd LHD)...not sold on Des with Juulsen, Friedman, etc ready to fill the spot.

I think Desjarnais will become quite the asset at his AAV with a little coaching. Foote and Tochett will get his mean streak going. If Foote and Gonchar can work on his positioning, he’s gonna be a stud at that price. There’s a reason they targeted him, especially after a seven game series.

[HarbularyBattery]

35 minutes ago, DeNiro said:

I go back and forth on that.

 

Yes having cap space at the deadline would be huge.

Issue being to be a buyer at the deadline you gotta be in the playoff hunt. Is that a good enough D to get us through 5 months of the regular season? I’m not so sure. One injury and that D gets real ugly real quick.

 

I think they’re gonna have to make a trade at some point in the next few months.

 

 

 

in that event i still think its better to wait and have cap space ready

 

who we need depends on who's injured, if anyone

 

if petey is injured for example, we need to go get a 30 goal scorer

 

if hughes is injured, we need a top pair puck mover

 

if soucy is injured, stay at home d-man

 

we can always make the move earlier but we'll know in the first 15 games or so if this group is good enough, and i imagine it will be

 

yeah we took a step down with zadorov/cole gone, but we've also taken a massive step up in our PK. that alone will help us win games

 

[HarbularyBattery]

48 minutes ago, BC_Hawk said:

BUT he is a 2m project where his most likely landing spot we had some depth (3rd RHD). I like Forbort (3rd LHD)...not sold on Des with Juulsen, Friedman, etc ready to fill the spot.

 

thats a super easy contract to unload/spot to backfill if needed during the season though, im sure that was part of the calculus

 

if the project works out, giga upside

if it fails, give chicago a 3rd rounder and dump him and go get a replacement

 

my gut reaction to the desharnais signing was i hated it, ive come around to it though in the bigger context. we want them to take swings and try to find big value in cheap contracts, sometimes those gambles work out, sometimes they dont, but id rather them take the swing since its not a killer if they miss on one like this

[HarbularyBattery]

26 minutes ago, Sika21 said:

I think Desjarnais will become quite the asset at his AAV with a little coaching. Foote and Tochett will get his mean streak going. If Foote and Gonchar can work on his positioning, he’s gonna be a stud at that price. There’s a reason they targeted him, especially after a seven game series.

that, and consider what allvin said about changing the way they play

 

last season it was all about controlled defenseman-led zone exits

 

this coming season itll be about fast transitional play

 

fast transitional play means the defenseman doesnt have to be a great puck handler, he just has to make a good outlet pass to a forward

 

these were pretty smart acquisitions if thats the case

 

heinen, debrusk, sherwood all have speed and hands that can finish

forbort and desharnais arent great puck handlers but both can make a good first pass

juulsen makes a GREAT first pass considering his profile

 

forbort and desharnais have the size and strength to break up the oppositions cycle, win puck battles in the corner, and then itll just be about making a quick short pass to a forward picking up speed

 

im pretty excited

[HKSR]

1 hour ago, BC_Hawk said:

Yes, that's how we started. Then, Soucy got hurt, we played the hell out of Cole, and were lucky that Juulsen and Friedman played well when asked to. Cole started the year as a top 3 guy in terms quality of play, but just got driven into the ground and never could recover. Would have been nice to have him somewhat fresh in POs.

 

My guess is the current group will start camp and the year. If someone doesn't emerge and steal the show, PA will be looking to do a trade in Nov and Dec (ala 2023). I'm OK with with this.

 

My frustration stems from the fact that we had a guy that fit the mold, and would have served us well and solidified the D for the next 4-5 years (Zad). Sounds like the $$ was the same, just term was the issue (4/5 vs 6yrs). I would have liked to see PA resign him OR go after another bonified Top 4 in FA (like Roy). Instead, we spent 3.5m on potential and depth; not proven Top 4 players. It was nice not having to worry about the D, and focus in on Top6 fwds. Oh well.......

For $5M x 6 though, I would have moved up a notch or two and went after guys like Pesce or Roy.  End of the day, Zadorov isn't a true $5M defenceman unless he plays at the level he did for 13 games in the playoffs.  I don't like it when the Canucks hand out contracts where a player needs to play at their peak to get value out of the cap hit.  It's generally not sustainable. 

[HarbularyBattery]

2 hours ago, VanOriginal said:

I disagree with the C, that is extremely low, especially if it's being based on not re-signing Zadorov. I like Zadorov, I liked his game in the playoffs but can he replicate that for a whole regular season? 'cause he wasn't that playoff player during the regular season. 

As you mentioned will the depth players hit lightening in bottle, I can ask the same about Z? Will he hit that bottle with the lightening that he found in the Playsoffs? Probability says no, as he had a career playoff year and would be difficult to replicate that performance in playoffs let alone for half of a regular season. 

The forwards brought in are all just as good if not better defensively than the the Forward group the team had last year. Big part of team defence also falls on the forwards and their willingness and ability to do their fair share. And the toughness lost from Z again will be covered by the forwards brought in as these forwards are more aggressive and assertive than the ones form last year. The big difference on D this year is the loss of speed and the first pass, but I think that can be addressed either by trade or team system.

I don't think that all of our players will have a similar year like last. Will Boes hit 40 again? Probably no but 30 sure. Will DJ produce the se of amour of goals/points? Again probably not but another one of the played brought in could as they have all produced consistently over the course of their careers. I can see Petey having more of an impact this year compared to last, especially if what he said was true that he was playing with a bum knee for the second half of the season. And I think a lot of people are sleeping on DeBrusk, I think he will have a career a year playing on this te just as JTM did once he came over from Tampa. 

 

 

Z got some serious puck luck with his goals too, bunch of those short side goals had no business going in

 

he skates the puck out pretty good, thats the main value he adds outside of the huge open ice hits. otherwise, in terms of puck battles, clearing the front of the net, making a first pass, etc. the new acquistions can do exactly what he did, but are also more elite penalty killers

 

5mx6 years would have been insanity. he was a 17 min/night defenseman for us. 

[Theo5789]

What was our defense pairings at the start of last season?

 

Hughes-Hronek 

Soucy-Myers 

Cole-Juulsen

 

If that's the case, then I would have to think the addition of Forbort and Desharnais isn't far off to what we had started with from last season. Hopefully another hot start and we can decide to bolster our defense or not.

[Blue]

16 hours ago, Blue said:

Why are we prioritizing big stay at home d men when there's better puck moving d men available ? Like Tyson Barrie

Why so many lols @ me for this 

 

 

[Blue]

12 minutes ago, Theo5789 said:

What was our defense pairings at the start of last season?

 

Hughes-Hronek 

Soucy-Myers 

Cole-Juulsen

 

If that's the case, then I would have to think the addition of Forbort and Desharnais isn't far off to what we had started with from last season. Hopefully another hot start and we can decide to bolster our defense or not.

Slight downgrade on Cole but Cole is getting older and isn't as good as he was

 

The defense is as good as we can ask it to be yet there's still a lot of dooming about it. The dooming is annoying 

[DeNiro]

4 minutes ago, Blue said:

Slight downgrade on Cole but Cole is getting older and isn't as good as he was

 

The defense is as good as we can ask it to be yet there's still a lot of dooming about it. The dooming is annoying 

I don’t see anyone dooming over it just pointing that it needs upgrading.

 

Whether that’s before the season or at the deadline remains to be seen.

 

I would be surprised if they don’t make a trade before the start of the season though.

 

 

Edited Thursday at 07:55 PM by DeNiro

[CanuckMan]

I’m excited to see how Heinen and Sherwood do. We have a lot of intangibles in those two. Could be looking at 15 goals from Sherwood and 20 from Heinen. Along with Debrusk perhaps breaking the 30 goal mark for the first time in his career we won’t miss Lindholm’s production at all.

Thats not taking into account guys like Garland, Joshua, Hoglander, Podz might have improvements in their game. 
 

The forward group I’m not so worried about. ^ Did not even mention Miller, Petey, & Boeser. 
 

Goaltending is A-ok with Demko & Silovs. 
 

Only questionable area is defence. In particular if we could get another top 4 guy that would be a solid team.

[Gawdzukes]

2 hours ago, BC_Hawk said:

That's my concern. One more true Top 4 would have allowed us to experiment and develop on the bottom pair.

 

Yeah, but we needed a top 4 RD, not LD. We already have Soucy on a NTC. Zadorov doesn't fit that bill. He's a 3rd pairing LD who can play up in a pinch. Unfortunately we're in a cap crunch due to previous management and lack of elc assets. If we didn't have Soucy then sure but they fill the same role.

 

1 hour ago, BC_Hawk said:

Don't 100% disagree, but then replace him with a player worth the $. Jury is stil out on that one...don't think PA is done.

 

I'm not sure what you mean. Replace him with a player worth the money? We did, with Forbort ... he's worth $1.5 mil and more in line with what a #5 defender is worth. We didn't have $5 mil laying around to blow inefficiently. We'll see what they do but I assume it'll be like last year. Wait and see how the team looks. If we are playing elite hockey again I'm sure they will consider an upgrade where necessary. If we struggle they may decide to simply hold the fort or cheaply plug a couple holes along the way.

 

  

1 hour ago, Bob Long said:

 

I think it's a bit of a hangover from being pushed around for so long. "Fun to play against" as the man said. 

 

Definitely a big part of it. I get it as well but you have to keep a clear head and not get blinded by extremes either. Teams need to be tough, but you can't just throw skill and IQ out the window at the same time.

Edited Thursday at 08:35 PM by Gawdzukes

[Bob Long]

5 minutes ago, Gawdzukes said:

 

Yeah, but we needed a top 4 RD, not LD. We already have Soucy on a NTC. Zadorov doesn't fit that bill. He's a 3rd pairing LD who can play up in a pinch. Unfortunately we're in a cap crunch due to previous management and lack of elc assets. If we didn't have Soucy then sure but they fill the same role.

 

 

I'm not sure what you mean. Replace him with a player worth the money? We did, with Forbort ... he's worth $1.5 mil and more in line with what a #5 defender is worth. We didn't have $5 mil laying around to blow inefficiently. We'll see what they do but I assume it'll be like last year. Wait and see how the team looks. If we are playing elite hockey again I'm sure they will consider an upgrade where necessary. If we struggle they may decide to simply hold the fort or cheaply plug a couple holes along the way.

 

  

 

Definitely a big part of it. I get it as well but you have to keep a clear head and not get blinded by extremes either. Teams need to be tough, but you can't just throw skill and IQ out the window at the same time.

 

I hope Foote can bring out the best from the new guys, just have to wait and see.

[spook007]

2 hours ago, Gawdzukes said:

 

People really get blinded by a couple big hits. Not a bad player, not an overly good player either. He's decent, average, but not worth top dollar, and for term either. Huge overpay for a bottom pairing defender. That's like paying Joshua $5 mil for 6 years and wondering why you have no cap space.

This is the reality... like it or not...

This management group has/had to find additional $4M of savings for the next two years coming up, all while finding money to improve the contracts of the players here... something has has to give... so far Myers extension paid for Hronek pay rise, and Zad (and Cole) leaving instead of being extended has paid for the $4M + Desharnais and Fobort.... 

 

And it gave them a bit of change left to (what on paper looks like) up grade the team... 

They likely got Petey 1 if not 2 new line mates... they keep the best 3rd line in the league intact... and they added 'meat and potato' sandpaper players to the team... 

 

They even got rid of Mikheyev for a second, while getting back a 4th (and another cap penalty of $0.75M)....

 

So yes, while I am going to miss big Zad on this team (because we've played so small for so long), we should probably be happy, that management vote with their brains and less with their hearts, than we do....

There is a reason, we have one of the largest front offices in the NHL, and why the head of the organisation has 3 rings, while this organisation has none...

 

 

[Warhippy]

4 minutes ago, spook007 said:

This is the reality... like it or not...

This management group has/had to find additional $4M of savings for the next two years coming up, all while finding money to improve the contracts of the players here... something has has to give... so far Myers extension paid for Hronek pay rise, and Zad (and Cole) leaving instead of being extended has paid for the $4M + Desharnais and Fobort.... 

 

And it gave them a bit of change left to (what on paper looks like) up grade the team... 

They likely got Petey 1 if not 2 new line mates... they keep the best 3rd line in the league intact... and they added 'meat and potato' sandpaper players to the team... 

 

They even got rid of Mikheyev for a second, while getting back a 4th (and another cap penalty of $0.75M)....

 

So yes, while I am going to miss big Zad on this team (because we've played so small for so long), we should probably be happy, that management vote with their brains and less with their hearts, than we do....

There is a reason, we have one of the largest front offices in the NHL, and why the head of the organisation has 3 rings, while this organisation has none...

 

 

This is without mentioning at all the fact that basically every deal signed is so short term low AAV that it makes every player signed in fact tradable in the event the season slips away

[spook007]

4 minutes ago, Warhippy said:

This is without mentioning at all the fact that basically every deal signed is so short term low AAV that it makes every player signed in fact tradable in the event the season slips away

Spot on... 

Great job by PA...

[Dr. Crossbar]

7 minutes ago, spook007 said:

This is the reality... like it or not...

This management group has/had to find additional $4M of savings for the next two years coming up, all while finding money to improve the contracts of the players here... something has has to give... so far Myers extension paid for Hronek pay rise, and Zad (and Cole) leaving instead of being extended has paid for the $4M + Desharnais and Fobort.... 

 

And it gave them a bit of change left to (what on paper looks like) up grade the team... 

They likely got Petey 1 if not 2 new line mates... they keep the best 3rd line in the league intact... and they added 'meat and potato' sandpaper players to the team... 

 

They even got rid of Mikheyev for a second, while getting back a 4th (and another cap penalty of $0.75M)....

 

So yes, while I am going to miss big Zad on this team (because we've played so small for so long), we should probably be happy, that management vote with their brains and less with their hearts, than we do....

There is a reason, we have one of the largest front offices in the NHL, and why the head of the organisation has 3 rings, while this organisation has none...

 

 

 

Bodes well for a good season. Gives us flexibility. So positive.

 

We're actually at that future place people wanted us to be years ago. It's nice to be in the light rather than constant doom and gloom.

 

We're fortunate to have competent management. Their due diligence and decision-making should give people more and more confidence. Even the draft picks this year were smart given the challenges.

 

Oh, and Happy Hronek! 

[spook007]

1 minute ago, Dr. Crossbar said:

 

Bodes well for a good season. Gives us flexibility. So positive.

 

We're actually at that future place people wanted us to be years ago. It's nice to be in the light rather than constant doom and gloom.

 

We're fortunate to have competent management. Their due diligence and decision-making should give people more and more confidence. Even the draft picks this year were smart given the challenges.

 

Oh, and Happy Hronek! 

Spot on amigo and Happy Hroneka....

[Dr. Crossbar]

27 minutes ago, Bob Long said:

 

I hope Foote can bring out the best from the new guys, just have to wait and see.

 

I'm sure he'll be putting his best foote forward. 

[Gawdzukes]

2 hours ago, HKSR said:

For $5M x 6 though, I would have moved up a notch or two and went after guys like Pesce or Roy.  End of the day, Zadorov isn't a true $5M defenceman unless he plays at the level he did for 13 games in the playoffs.  I don't like it when the Canucks hand out contracts where a player needs to play at their peak to get value out of the cap hit.  It's generally not sustainable. 

 

Yeah. People really keyed in on a little stretch of good performance. He had a great playoff with timely goals but is it reflective of his play overall? I don't think so.

 

2 hours ago, HarbularyBattery said:

Z got some serious puck luck with his goals too, bunch of those short side goals had no business going in

 

he skates the puck out pretty good, thats the main value he adds outside of the huge open ice hits. otherwise, in terms of puck battles, clearing the front of the net, making a first pass, etc. the new acquistions can do exactly what he did, but are also more elite penalty killers

 

5mx6 years would have been insanity. he was a 17 min/night defenseman for us. 

 

That's the ticket. He scored a couple big goals and while he made the shots, give him due credit, they were also lucky in a sense too. A couple seeing eye shots where the goalie didn't make the save. It's not like he was just blowing these shots in or anything. No reason to think he's just going to repeat that every playoff, although he definitely has a knack for the net, and some offensive acumen.

 

As good a skater as he is for, "his size", he still suffers from general mobility issues and is not able to keep up with attackers in the offensive zone at all times. As such he defaults to standing still often, waiting for his chance to use his size to intercept wayward or loss of controlled pucks.

 

That's just crazy money to throw at a player because you like his style though. As some have mentioned if you're looking to spend that kind of money you might as well go after a better overall player. For a 6 year deal with that type of dman you should be getting a great AAV. 

Edited Thursday at 09:40 PM by Gawdzukes

[VanOriginal]

1 hour ago, HarbularyBattery said:

Z got some serious puck luck with his goals too, bunch of those short side goals had no business going in

 

he skates the puck out pretty good, thats the main value he adds outside of the huge open ice hits. otherwise, in terms of puck battles, clearing the front of the net, making a first pass, etc. the new acquistions can do exactly what he did, but are also more elite penalty killers

 

5mx6 years would have been insanity. he was a 17 min/night defenseman for us. 

Exactly, I like Z but those goals against Skinner were very lucky. I don't see him replicating that again. I think our team toughness has gone up a notch or two. But having said that we are missing one Dman, preferably RD

[Dr. Crossbar]

2 hours ago, Sika21 said:

I think Desjarnais will become quite the asset at his AAV with a little coaching. Foote and Tochett will get his mean streak going. If Foote and Gonchar can work on his positioning, he’s gonna be a stud at that price. There’s a reason they targeted him, especially after a seven game series.

 

Huge upside here for higher value. Looking forward to seeing him evolve. He's been a late bloomer and has the right attitude and mentality to become even better.