[Buyout] Jeff Skinner

[Blue]

11 minutes ago, Blitz-Pix said:

 

I get the offensive production perspective...personally I just I don't think Skinner is the right fit is all.

 

IMO - to small, not fast enough and doesn't forecheck. He seems to go through bouts of inconsistency in his play. 

When he's motivated he can fill the net and put up points, when he's not motivated he seems like a liability. 

 

I'm not sure if Toffoli is the right fit either but at least he's a little quicker, plays more physical and forechecks. Also capable of filling the net.

Toff gives you his all and is a great team player, not sure if the same can be said about Skinner.  

 

 

      

Yeah but we're running out of options. I kinda like the Skinner idea more than Shawn Matthias 2.0 in Necas.

 

Skinner got 96 goals in 3 years 

[Coconuts]

16 minutes ago, Blue said:

At one point you said that Panarin or Kiprasov was as bad as Kuz defensively too. 

 

We have to bend the rules for a one way scoring player 

 

I think that's something the Canucks are going to have to consider whether that ends up being Skinner or not. Even the Stanley Cup champion Florida Panthers, coached by Maurice, brought in a guy who's viewed as defensively weak in Tarasenko. 

 

Sometimes you've gotta reel in guys who bring offense, plain and simple. Some of folks talk about us needing Tochett style players, great coaches find a way to make things work with all sorts of players.

Edited June 26 by Coconuts

[JeremyCuddles]

8 minutes ago, Coconuts said:

 

I think that's something the Canucks are going to have to consider whether that ends up being Skinner or not. Even the Stanley Cup champion Florida Panthers, coached by Maurice, brought in a guy who's viewed as defensively weak in Tarasenko. 

 

Sometimes you've gotta reel in guys who bring offense, plain and simple. Some of folks talk about us needing Tochett style players, great coaches find a way to make things work with all sorts of players.

Thing to mention is, Tara played their bottom 6. We have that guy already in Garland. I mean, I guess we can trade him to bring in Skinner to do what Garland is already known to be able to do I guess.

[HKSR]

14 minutes ago, Coconuts said:

 

I think that's something the Canucks are going to have to consider whether that ends up being Skinner or not. Even the Stanley Cup champion Florida Panthers, coached by Maurice, brought in a guy who's viewed as defensively weak in Tarasenko. 

 

Sometimes you've gotta reel in guys who bring offense, plain and simple. Some of folks talk about us needing Tochett style players, great coaches find a way to make things work with all sorts of players.

 

3 minutes ago, JeremyCuddles said:

Thing to mention is, Tara played their bottom 6. We have that guy already in Garland. I mean, I guess we can trade him to bring in Skinner to do what Garland is already known to be able to do I guess.

If we're looking at FLA, Rodriguez and Bennett played in their top 6.  They're not exactly elite offensive threats, but they can absolutely grind their way into offensive possession and control.  Suter plays that role very well for the Miller/Boeser duo.  We need to build something around Petey that replicates that strong possession game. 

[Coconuts]

3 minutes ago, HKSR said:

 

If we're looking at FLA, Rodriguez and Bennett played in their top 6.  They're not exactly elite offensive threats, but they can absolutely grind their way into offensive possession and control.  Suter plays that role very well for the Miller/Boeser duo.  We need to build something around Petey that replicates that strong possession game. 

 

For all the talk of Pettersson needing a running mate, he's now the guy who is paid to stir the drink 

 

Yeah, getting him talent should be a target, but I'm not convinced it needs to be elite talent

[JeremyCuddles]

2 minutes ago, HKSR said:

 

If we're looking at FLA, Rodriguez and Bennett played in their top 6.  They're not exactly elite offensive threats, but they can absolutely grind their way into offensive possession and control.  Suter plays that role very well for the Miller/Boeser duo.  We need to build something around Petey that replicates that strong possession game. 

Bennett is a consistent 40+ point and has hit 20 goals multiple times. Suter has zero 40 point seasons and zero 20 goal seasons. And that was with playing with a 40 goal Boeser and a 100 point Miller. And Rodrigues is Burrows 2.0. Wouldn't say Suter can emulate that. I think Suter is the weak link to that line. By far. But yes, pretty much everyone in their top 6 forechecks hard. Even Reino and Matty Tkachuk get in there. Skinner isn't that guy, nor was Tarasenko for Florida. He was played in their bottom 6. Adding Skinner imo doesn't do anything for Petey. Just like Kuzmenko didn't do anything for Petey, and I'd argue Kuzy has better offensive weapons.

 

1 minute ago, Coconuts said:

 

For all the talk of Pettersson needing a running mate, he's now the guy who is paid to stir the drink 

 

Yeah, getting him talent should be a target, but I'm not convinced it needs to be elite talent

Skinner isn't gonna help Petey though. Cause Petey wants forecheckers and playmakers. Skinner does neither. I'd rather promote Garland to that line. Cause he is a better passer, puck handler, and puck hound than Skinner. Then find a big body for the LW. Going back to the Tarasenko comp, you grab Skinner to add offence to the bottom 6. Since his defensive woes won't matter as much playing against the other team's bottom 6.

[HKSR]

7 minutes ago, Coconuts said:

 

For all the talk of Pettersson needing a running mate, he's now the guy who is paid to stir the drink 

 

Yeah, getting him talent should be a target, but I'm not convinced it needs to be elite talent

Agreed.  I believe Tkachuk played most of the regular season with Bennett and Rodriguez.  Tkachuk is the Petey on that line.  Hoglander should be fine as he gets another year of development.  We really should shop for an offensively capable, but big and strong winger to complement the line.

[HKSR]

8 minutes ago, JeremyCuddles said:

Bennett is a consistent 40+ point and has hit 20 goals multiple times. Suter has zero 40 point seasons and zero 20 goal seasons. And that was with playing with a 40 goal Boeser and a 100 point Miller. And Rodrigues is Burrows 2.0. Wouldn't say Suter can emulate that. I think Suter is the weak link to that line. By far. But yes, pretty much everyone in their top 6 forechecks hard. Even Reino and Matty Tkachuk get in there. Skinner isn't that guy, nor was Tarasenko for Florida. He was played in their bottom 6. Adding Skinner imo doesn't do anything for Petey. Just like Kuzmenko didn't do anything for Petey, and I'd argue Kuzy has better offensive weapons.

 

Skinner isn't gonna help Petey though. Cause Petey wants forecheckers and playmakers. Skinner does neither. I'd rather promote Garland to that line. Cause he is a better passer, puck handler, and puck hound than Skinner. Then find a big body for the LW. Going back to the Tarasenko comp, you grab Skinner to add offence to the bottom 6. Since his defensive woes won't matter as much playing against the other team's bottom 6.

Suter is not the perfect guy for that line, but he absolutely makes a difference in terms of on-ice advanced metrics.  The pairing of Miller and Boeser go from about a 50% CF and FF to over 60% when Suter is on the line.  As a unit, that line produced 205 points this year.  The Rodriguez/Bennett/Tkachuk line produced 168 points.

 

Cap hits for each unit:

VAN - 16.25M

FLA - 16.925M

 

The line of Suter-Miller-Boeser is not a concern for the Canucks.  Our focus should be squarely on the Petey line.

[Pears]

22 minutes ago, Coconuts said:

 

For all the talk of Pettersson needing a running mate, he's now the guy who is paid to stir the drink 

 

Yeah, getting him talent should be a target, but I'm not convinced it needs to be elite talent

It doesn't, but it needs to be a step up from what he's had. Outside of the lotto line he hasn't had a good line since he was with Miller and Toffoli. 

[Coconuts]

15 minutes ago, JeremyCuddles said:

Bennett is a consistent 40+ point and has hit 20 goals multiple times. Suter has zero 40 point seasons and zero 20 goal seasons. And that was with playing with a 40 goal Boeser and a 100 point Miller. And Rodrigues is Burrows 2.0. Wouldn't say Suter can emulate that. I think Suter is the weak link to that line. By far. But yes, pretty much everyone in their top 6 forechecks hard. Even Reino and Matty Tkachuk get in there. Skinner isn't that guy, nor was Tarasenko for Florida. He was played in their bottom 6. Adding Skinner imo doesn't do anything for Petey. Just like Kuzmenko didn't do anything for Petey, and I'd argue Kuzy has better offensive weapons.

 

Skinner isn't gonna help Petey though. Cause Petey wants forecheckers and playmakers. Skinner does neither. I'd rather promote Garland to that line. Cause he is a better passer, puck handler, and puck hound than Skinner. Then find a big body for the LW. Going back to the Tarasenko comp, you grab Skinner to add offence to the bottom 6. Since his defensive woes won't matter as much playing against the other team's bottom 6.

 

It doesn't have to be Skinner, you're missing the point. It's a common theme around here, folks gushing about how Pettersson needs an elite tier running mate, I don't agree with that. And improvement on Mikheyev doesn't need to be a Guentzel tier talent for example. 

 

8 minutes ago, HKSR said:

Agreed.  I believe Tkachuk played most of the regular season with Bennett and Rodriguez.  Tkachuk is the Petey on that line.  Hoglander should be fine as he gets another year of development.  We really should shop for an offensively capable, but big and strong winger to complement the line.

 

The biggest thing is finding players who mesh with what the Canucks want from that line. Pettersson is the elite talent on that line, he will more than likely be the best talent on that line, he's going to need to bring out more from the players around him like other top end guys. Whether those players are first or second liners, that remains to be seen, but I think Pettersson would do just fine with a couple legitimate second liners. 

 

1 minute ago, Pears said:

It doesn't, but it needs to be a step up from what he's had. Outside of the lotto line he hasn't had a good line since he was with Miller and Toffoli. 

 

Sure, but what the means could be a lot of different things. 

[Pears]

1 minute ago, Coconuts said:

Sure, but what the means could be a lot of different things. 

At the very least, better than any combo of Lafferty/Mikheyev/Höglander . Högs is still young and I have faith in him but the other two should be very easy to find upgrades. 

[Coconuts]

3 minutes ago, Pears said:

At the very least, better than any combo of Lafferty/Mikheyev/Höglander . Högs is still young and I have faith in him but the other two should be very easy to find upgrades. 

 

One guy who could be interesting is Domi, I just assumed the Leafs would find a way to keep him but that might not be the case, he's much more of a puck distributor than a goal scorer though

 

 

 

Edited June 26 by Coconuts

[CanucksFan26]

I wonder if a buyout or trade with 50% retention is more valuable to Buffalo. Paying 4.5 for 3 years plus giving up draft picks to move him or 2.4 for 6 years. That’s quite the pickle to be in. That buyout won’t be terrible in 3-4 years if the cap keeps going up. This is why long term contracts are so dangerous. 

[HKSR]

7 minutes ago, Coconuts said:

The biggest thing is finding players who mesh with what the Canucks want from that line. Pettersson is the elite talent on that line, he will more than likely be the best talent on that line, he's going to need to bring out more from the players around him like other top end guys. Whether those players are first or second liners, that remains to be seen, but I think Pettersson would do just fine with a couple legitimate second liners. 

Yup, I agree.  I guess the dream is that Guentzel would come here and gel with Petey.  Then we'd have 2 absolutely explosive lines.  Would almost certainly result in a Cup run in the next couple years assuming Demko holds up and our defence group is about as solid as it was last year. 

[Pears]

3 minutes ago, Coconuts said:

 

One guy who could be interesting is Domi, I just assumed the Leafs would find a way to keep him but that might not be the case, he's much more of a puck distributor than a goal scorer though

 

 

 

Domi would be interesting. I think I'd be more interested in Teravainen or DeBrusk though. 

[HKSR]

3 minutes ago, Coconuts said:

 

One guy who could be interesting is Domi, I just assumed the Leafs would find a way to keep him but that might not be the case, he's much more of a puck distributor than a goal scorer though

 

 

 

Now that's interesting news.  I think either one of those guys would be exactly what we need next to Petey and Hoglander.  They both bring plenty of truculence and puck pursuit.

[Coconuts]

1 minute ago, HKSR said:

Yup, I agree.  I guess the dream is that Guentzel would come here and gel with Petey.  Then we'd have 2 absolutely explosive lines.  Would almost certainly result in a Cup run in the next couple years assuming Demko holds up and our defence group is about as solid as it was last year. 

 

I get that, but I reckon the odds of it not happening are greater than the odds of it actually happening. If he's a UFA come July 1st he's going to be getting a lot of calls from various teams, and there's only one of him. 

 

If we get him on a reasonable contract, fantastic, but if I were a betting man I'd say the Canucks end up doing something else up front. 

[Coconuts]

2 minutes ago, Pears said:

Domi would be interesting. I think I'd be more interested in Teravainen or DeBrusk though. 

 

Both are interesting names, definitely. 

 

2 minutes ago, HKSR said:

Now that's interesting news.  I think either one of those guys would be exactly what we need next to Petey and Hoglander.  They both bring plenty of truculence and puck pursuit.

 

Domi's roughly six feet and 210 pounds if I'm not mistaken, he's also feisty like his dad was. 118 PIMS this past season, 76 the season before. I could see him working with the Miller or Pettersson lines as a bit of a shit disturbing playmaker. Both Miller and Brock like to shoot, it could work out well. If Pettersson plays as more of a shoot first center it could also work out. 

 

I'm not really interested in Bertuzzi though, I just don't really care for him despite his player archetype. 

[Rekker]

1 minute ago, Coconuts said:

I'm not really interested in Bertuzzi though, I just don't really care for him despite his player archetype.

Agreed, too slow.

[Rekker]

6 minutes ago, HKSR said:

Now that's interesting news.  I think either one of those guys would be exactly what we need next to Petey and Hoglander.  They both bring plenty of truculence and puck pursuit.

Yip. That line needs a Burrows. A grinder with some hands and some speed. 

[HKSR]

10 minutes ago, Coconuts said:

 

Both are interesting names, definitely. 

 

 

Domi's roughly six feet and 210 pounds if I'm not mistaken, he's also feisty like his dad was. 118 PIMS this past season, 76 the season before. I could see him working with the Miller or Pettersson lines as a bit of a shit disturbing playmaker. Both Miller and Brock like to shoot, it could work out well. If Pettersson plays as more of a shoot first center it could also work out. 

 

I'm not really interested in Bertuzzi though, I just don't really care for him despite his player archetype. 

Yeah of the 2, Domi would be my preference.

[boziffous]

A lot of players that get bought out of their contract early that are still decent players, they're just not worth their contract, seem to sign their next contract at around 33 to 45% of what they were previously making per season. I'm guessing Skinner would likely sign a contract in the $3 to $3.5 million range.

[WiDeN]

1 hour ago, JeremyCuddles said:

Thing to mention is, Tara played their bottom 6. We have that guy already in Garland. I mean, I guess we can trade him to bring in Skinner to do what Garland is already known to be able to do I guess.

Garland and Skinner would make a hell of a 3rd line. 

[JeremyCuddles]

45 minutes ago, HKSR said:

Suter is not the perfect guy for that line, but he absolutely makes a difference in terms of on-ice advanced metrics.  The pairing of Miller and Boeser go from about a 50% CF and FF to over 60% when Suter is on the line.  As a unit, that line produced 205 points this year.  The Rodriguez/Bennett/Tkachuk line produced 168 points.

 

Cap hits for each unit:

VAN - 16.25M

FLA - 16.925M

 

The line of Suter-Miller-Boeser is not a concern for the Canucks.  Our focus should be squarely on the Petey line.

I never said we needed to fix the Miller line, the point I've been making the entire time is we don't want or need Skinner as he provides nothing for Petey or our top 6 as a whole and what he provides the bottom 6 is already provided by Garland. We should probably stop paying 4+mil to a bunch of 3rd liners. But if we had the cap, I'd love to replace Suter too but is not a discussion I am trying to have here. Lol.

 

Boeser and Miller's metrics go up with Suter cause the rest of the roster is pretty bad outside of Garland and Joshua who were glued together when healthy. Petey has to try make do with scraps, no offence Hogs but as a younger guy still finding his way he's not top 6 guy right now, but could be. I don't see Skinner helping Petey. Hogs is the better LW option between him and Skinner, cause at least he hounds the opposing team and is likely a third if not a quarter of the price of Skinner. We should be looking at RW options anyway. There are so many boxes Skinner fails to check. He's not a very good passer, non existent defensively, zero forechecking, is a LWer, is small, non existent physicality. The only box he does check is he can score. But that literally puts us in the same spot we were in with Kuzy. A one way guy who can't play the top 6 in our system.

[wai_lai416]

1 hour ago, JeremyCuddles said:

Bennett is a consistent 40+ point and has hit 20 goals multiple times. Suter has zero 40 point seasons and zero 20 goal seasons. And that was with playing with a 40 goal Boeser and a 100 point Miller. And Rodrigues is Burrows 2.0. Wouldn't say Suter can emulate that. I think Suter is the weak link to that line. By far. But yes, pretty much everyone in their top 6 forechecks hard. Even Reino and Matty Tkachuk get in there. Skinner isn't that guy, nor was Tarasenko for Florida. He was played in their bottom 6. Adding Skinner imo doesn't do anything for Petey. Just like Kuzmenko didn't do anything for Petey, and I'd argue Kuzy has better offensive weapons.

 

Skinner isn't gonna help Petey though. Cause Petey wants forecheckers and playmakers. Skinner does neither. I'd rather promote Garland to that line. Cause he is a better passer, puck handler, and puck hound than Skinner. Then find a big body for the LW. Going back to the Tarasenko comp, you grab Skinner to add offence to the bottom 6. Since his defensive woes won't matter as much playing against the other team's bottom 6.

Stop trying to stick garland in the top 6. His play style fit neither miller or ep. Those lines literally did nothing when garland was playing there. Garland plays and holds on to the puck so he can play along the board and that takes away the puck from miller ep and Hughes that’s why it never worked and it never will. He works great on the 3rd line coz there’s no one to fight him for the puck