[Signing] Canucks Re-Sign Filip Hronek (8 years x $7.25 Million)

[Alflives]

1 minute ago, Ghostsof1915 said:

 

OEL was a bad signing. And we'd probably not have Cole last year at least if the team kept him. Possibly that's no Soucy as well.

And there was no guarantee he'd improve. Moving on from OEL was fixing a bad situation.

It was almost unanimous a year before Benning (the moran) traded for OELevator it was a stupid idea. Yet the moran did it anyway. 

[IBatch]

2 minutes ago, Alflives said:

It was almost unanimous a year before Benning (the moran) traded for OELevator it was a stupid idea. Yet the moran did it anyway. 

Things would have worked out a lot differently.   The best thing though, is it cost JB his job. 

[Alflives]

1 minute ago, IBatch said:

He didn't take a discount for today though.    Allvin is banking on him to be a regular 30-35 point guy off the top pairing.     It could be that high though (cap), still his cap percentage wouldn't be 10 plus.  

If Hronek was a UFA this July there isn’t a club that goes higher than 7.25 cap allocation? 

[Hammertime]

45 minutes ago, IBatch said:

Allvin thinks Mikheyev is not a top six forward, and it's his fault for not finding a player to play with EP (yet).   Thinks he's a good PKer, with speed as his intangible, and was put in a bad position as a result.   No training camp, and still recovering from his surgery,  and lost his confidence.     Price of a good UFA middle six player.   Garland.   

 

It's not a luxury, it's a must have (we won't win shit with 3 top six players).  
 

Even in the peak Sedin era, all we could manage was 4 top six guys, and Burrows was arguably a middle six forward off the Sedin line.    The team can afford 4 top six guys locked in.   The other guys, hopefully to push us over the top, will come within. 

Lol you can't have 6 top 6 players and also pay them all like top 6 players. You  need at least 2 guys in your top 6 on efficient contracts. Your statement that Lindholm wasn't enough we need Guentzel too is ridiculous you can't have a 50m top 6. Brock Pete Miller supplemented by 10m in support is enough to ice a balanced roster. And if you need to make a dl deal to beef up an area you do that. I feel like you can get 2 top 6 players for the price of Guentzel and be well ahead. 

 

Would it have mattered if we had had Guentzel this playoffs with Pete playing the way he did? I'd wager the outcome would have been the same and we would have just flushed assets.

 

 

 

[IBatch]

19 minutes ago, Hammertime said:

Lol you can't have 6 top 6 players and also pay them all like top 6 players. You  need at least 2 guys in your top 6 on efficient contracts. Your statement that Lindholm wasn't enough we need Guentzel too is ridiculous you can't have a 50m top 6. Brock Pete Miller supplemented by 10m in support is enough to ice a balanced roster. And if you need to make a dl deal to beef up an area you do that. I feel like you can get 2 top 6 players for the price of Guentzel and be well ahead. 

 

Would it have mattered if we had had Guentzel this playoffs with Pete playing the way he did? I'd wager the outcome would have been the same and we would have just flushed assets.

 

 

 

I'm well aware of this (you need some cheap options in the top six outproducing their cap hits).  The point is, Mikheyev wasn't signed to be a top six player.    Allvin said this his pressor.   Both Allvin and JR, have said they like to work with pairs (and a filler, why?  Cap constraints, our market is at the tippy top of that).     Why can't we have both  Brock and Guentzel with a cheap guy on the wings?    It's not at all out of line with other competitive teams. 

 

My statement about Lindholm?  Think you're making some logic leaps.   Just quoting Allvin, he was added to add to our center depth.   I didn't mention Lindholm in the post your replying too, and didn't say we need Guentzel too either...where are you getting this from. 

 

Didn't say what I personally feel.    Personally feel that both are options for EP.   And he does need a wingman.   Why would we have to choose between Brock and ?? x  blue chip UFA top six player?   Well as long as we don't sacrifice too much on the D side.    We should be able to ice the same D-corp, except Juulsen replaces Cole. 

 

Lekkermaki, he's a year off, that's likely best case.    As EPs long term wingman.   And if he works out, that would be one great line.  While he's on his ELC.

 

  If they signed Lindholm, then maybe they move EP off the centre spot.   Maybe they don't.   Up to Tochett to figure that out.    Again, Mikheyev wasn't viewed as a top six player by management, a middle six guy yes.    Also don't feel we can't afford  Brock and Guentzel.    Of course we can.   It's not like we've got a TO lineup.   One guy over 10.    That's it.    
 

If you want to use the Sedins, Kessler and Burrows as a case study.   Add up their cap percentages, and compare it with EP, Miller, Brock and ?.     There is room for one more.

 

Yikes that's thin upfront as is.  We were exposed.    Lindholm and Garland saved us.

 

If your saying EP should be able to play all on his own with plugs,  well i'm sure you will find a lot of support with RUSerious.  

Edited June 20 by IBatch

[Hammertime]

1 minute ago, IBatch said:

I'm well aware of this.   The point is, Mikheyev wasn't signed to be a top six player.    Allvin said this his pressor.   Both Allvin and JR, have said they like to work with pairs (and a filler, why?  Cap constraints, our market is at the tippy top of that).     Why can't we have both  Brock and Guentzel with a cheap guy on the wings?    It's not at all out of line with other competitive teams. 

Last I checked Mik doesn't do anything at all in the bottom 6 either he's Jannik Hansen without the dogged agressive fore chek. Paying 5m on a bottom 6 guy who isn't an elite checker who can also put up 40 in that role like Garland Burrows was never a sound rational. What's done is done. Horse is dead. 

 

Suter  Miller  Brock 16.3m

One of the best lines in the nhl

Pete Guentzel alone are 20.5m add what another 3-4m player to that is just a poorly conceived use of cap IMO. 

[NewbieCanuckFan]

1 hour ago, IBatch said:

Things would have worked out a lot differently.   The best thing though, is it cost JB his job. 

He got dealt a bad hand (by previous management/GM) but he played that hand badly.  

 

But all GM's will make mistakes.  What separates the good ones from the bad ones is how they correct those mistakes (eg., going from LE to OEL was Mike Milbury level bad).

 

But back to the thread topic...

 

Wish it wasn't so long (term) but Horonek held alot of leverage in the contract negotiations (replacing his top 4 minutes would probably cost us at least as much, if not more, via free agency).

Edited June 20 by NewbieCanuckFan

[stawns]

9 minutes ago, NewbieCanuckFan said:

He got dealt a bad hand (by previous management/GM) but he played that hand badly.  

 

But all GM's will make mistakes.  What separates the good ones from the bad ones is how they correct those mistakes (eg., going from LE to OEL was Mike Milbury level bad).

 

But back to the thread topic...

 

Wish it wasn't so long (term) but Horonek held alot of leverage in the contract negotiations (replacing his top 4 minutes would probably cost us at least as much, if not more, via free agency).

 

Again, Bennings blunder wasn't OEL, it was hiring a shitty coach.  It's no coincidence that every single dman who played shitty  under BB is having a great year this year under a better coach.

 

When Fla needed a goal in the last two mins to tie it up in game 5, who did Maurice have out there?  That's right, OEL.

 

Further to that point, it wasn't just a trade for OEL, it was also a trade for Garland, who Id say is a critical player in Vancouver's lineup

[Hammertime]

48 minutes ago, IBatch said:

I'm well aware of this (you need some cheap options in the top six outproducing their cap hits).  The point is, Mikheyev wasn't signed to be a top six player.    Allvin said this his pressor.   Both Allvin and JR, have said they like to work with pairs (and a filler, why?  Cap constraints, our market is at the tippy top of that).     Why can't we have both  Brock and Guentzel with a cheap guy on the wings?    It's not at all out of line with other competitive teams. 

 

My statement about Lindholm?  Think you're making some logic leaps.   Just quoting Allvin, he was added to add to our center depth.   I didn't mention Lindholm in the post your replying too, and didn't say we need Guentzel too either...where are you getting this from. 

 

Didn't say what I personally feel.    Personally feel that both are options for EP.   And he does need a wingman.   Why would we have to choose between Brock and ?? x  blue chip UFA top six player?   Well as long as we don't sacrifice too much on the D side.    We should be able to ice the same D-corp, except Juulsen replaces Cole. 

 

Lekkermaki, he's a year off, that's likely best case.    As EPs long term wingman.   And if he works out, that would be one great line.  While he's on his ELC.

 

  If they signed Lindholm, then maybe they move EP off the centre spot.   Maybe they don't.   Up to Tochett to figure that out.    Again, Mikheyev wasn't viewed as a top six player by management, a middle six guy yes.    Also don't feel we can't afford  Brock and Guentzel.    Of course we can.   It's not like we've got a TO lineup.   One guy over 10.    That's it.    
 

If you want to use the Sedins, Kessler and Burrows as a case study.   Add up their cap percentages, and compare it with EP, Miller, Brock and ?.     There is room for one more.

 

Yikes that's thin upfront as is.  We were exposed.    Lindholm and Garland saved us.

 

If your saying EP should be able to play all on his own with plugs,  well i'm sure you will find a lot of support with RUSerious.  

Haha no I'm not saying that. Our discussion kicked off with you replying to my reply to @HarbularyBattery where he stated Pete Miller Brock Lindholm wasn't enough we needed more top 6 fire power.

 

I'm not saying Pete should be flanked by plugs at all you also can't spend 24m on 1 line without making huge sacrifices elsewhere in your line up. We should probably cap Pete's line around 20m which puts us out on Guentzel. 

Edited June 20 by Hammertime

[IBatch]

31 minutes ago, Hammertime said:

Haha no I'm not saying that. Our discussion kicked off with you replying to my reply to @HarbularyBattery where he stated Pete Miller Brock Lindholm wasn't enough we needed more top 6 fire power.

 

I'm not saying Pete should be flanked by plugs at all you also can't spend 24m on 1 line without making huge sacrifices elsewhere in your line up. We should probably cap Pete's line around 20m which puts up out on Guentzel.

 

Ah-HA.   Now I get it.   Missed that part completely.    I'm not as bullish on Guentzel either,  also well even just adding him would be great.   Truly comes down to his cap hit.    Also don't see EP untouchable either.    Miller, QH's, Demko that's it. 

 

We do need a top six player.  Guentzel is a star.   Trust that Allvin will figure it out.   We can afford one UFA player to plug a hole.    And we won't win a cup without a top six add.     Given it's the goal.   Can see why that poster said it's not enough.   Will need something to come from within.    See Lindholm as a rental paid in full.    If we re-sign him, then no Guentzel.   

 

As for not as bullish, do get you can only strike iron when it's hot, and don't play video game hockey where you can fleece a primitive AI in a trade or signing.     Know that the only way we will sign a UFA, is if they want to come, and/or will be the highest bidder.    Trying to find value in the middle class players is a risky proposition too.   Kuzmenko and Mikheyev (so far anyways).    Stability could be valuable.   Maybe they see Guentzel a lot like Phil Kessel was for them.  

 

Lekkermaki EP Guentzel before Demko and QHs are up, could pay massive dividends.    Not sure.  

 

As long as we sign Zadarov, i'm not that fussy on what else they do this off season.    

Edited June 20 by IBatch

[NewbieCanuckFan]

5 minutes ago, stawns said:

 

Again, Bennings blunder wasn't OEL, it was hiring a shitty coach.  It's no coincidence that every single dman who played shitty  under BB is having a great year this year under a better coach.

 

When Fla needed a goal in the last two mins to tie it up in game 5, who did Maurice have out there?  That's right, OEL.

 

Further to that point, it wasn't just a trade for OEL, it was also a trade for Garland, who Id say is a critical player in Vancouver's lineup

Never said OEL was LE level bad.  His cap hit was even worse than LE level bad though (which in our cap situation is fatal).

[IBatch]

17 minutes ago, stawns said:

 

Again, Bennings blunder wasn't OEL, it was hiring a shitty coach.  It's no coincidence that every single dman who played shitty  under BB is having a great year this year under a better coach.

 

When Fla needed a goal in the last two mins to tie it up in game 5, who did Maurice have out there?  That's right, OEL.

 

Further to that point, it wasn't just a trade for OEL, it was also a trade for Garland, who Id say is a critical player in Vancouver's lineup

Don't you think you're overrating our roster a tad?     Like to see how Green manages his next coaching gig before passing judgment.   Personally felt he did pretty good given the endless plugs he was handed.   Look at how much better Myers is playing with a better D-corp around him .   Green Brock, QHs and EP all said good things about the opportunities they were given, not that they had better options.    Not sure what your expectations were with those rosters, mine were pretty low. 

 

As for OEL, he said himself he was recovering from ankle injury, and look at his minutes.   He's not having to play 22 a game in Florida, and he's fully recovered. 

 

Edit: Aside from some green stars coming onto the scene, and aging Edler, a oft injured Tanev, QHs who wasn't very good on the d side, still developing, Choas as our next best on the right side,   Markstrom who for years would let a muffin in the first couple shots of the game.   Zero toughness in the lineup.   And support players who were overpaid.  Wasn't the best chapter in our history. 

Edited June 20 by IBatch

[stawns]

6 minutes ago, NewbieCanuckFan said:

Never said OEL was LE level bad.  His cap hit was even worse than LE level bad though (which in our cap situation is fatal).

 

That's PA's issue, not Bennings.  Hrs the one who went with a buyout.

 

While he might not be playing to a $7m level anymore, in this post season, he's not that far off, hes had a great playoffs, coming off a pretty good rdg season.

 

Unfortunately, it's the Canucks footing a lot of that bill..........I guess technically they aren't this year

 

[stawns]

6 minutes ago, IBatch said:

Don't you think you're overrating our roster a tad?     Like to see how Green manages his next coaching gig before passing judgment.   Personally felt he did pretty good given the endless plugs he was handed.   Look at how much better Myers is playing with a better D-corp around him .   Green Brock, QHs and EP all said good things about the opportunities they were given, not that they had better options.    Not sure what your expectations were with those rosters, mine were pretty low. 

 

As for OEL, he said himself he was recovering from ankle injury, and look at his minutes.   He's not having to play 22 a game in Florida, and he's fully recovered. 

 

I meant BB, not green.  I was a fan of Green

[NewbieCanuckFan]

3 minutes ago, stawns said:

 

That's PA's issue, not Bennings.  Hrs the one who went with a buyout.

 

While he might not be playing to a $7m level anymore, in this post season, he's not that far off, hes had a great playoffs, coming off a pretty good rdg season.

 

Unfortunately, it's the Canucks footing a lot of that bill..........I guess technically they aren't this year

 

Well the Canucks never were before either as he was a 8.25 million cap hit for us.

[IBatch]

5 minutes ago, stawns said:

 

I meant BB, not green.  I was a fan of Green

Oh.  Well shit sorry for that diatribe.   Didn't mind Green either.     Glad he's got another shot.  

[JeremyCuddles]

4 minutes ago, NewbieCanuckFan said:

Well the Canucks never were before either as he was a 8.25 million cap hit for us.

Pretty sure Arizona retained 1mil on that contract. So no, it was indeed a 7mil bill for us.

[NewbieCanuckFan]

Just now, JeremyCuddles said:

Pretty sure Arizona retained 1mil on that contract. So no, it was indeed a 7mil bill for us.

I stand corrected.

[IBatch]

14 minutes ago, stawns said:

 

That's PA's issue, not Bennings.  Hrs the one who went with a buyout.

 

While he might not be playing to a $7m level anymore, in this post season, he's not that far off, hes had a great playoffs, coming off a pretty good rdg season.

 

Unfortunately, it's the Canucks footing a lot of that bill..........I guess technically they aren't this year

 

Glad we had a good season.  One more year before going for a buyout might end up hurting.   Do wonder if he's just not a Tochett guy.    He did play a much heavier game his first year with us.    Garland, well at least that part had value, with Tochett and with Green. 

Edited June 20 by IBatch

[HKSR]

12 minutes ago, stawns said:

 

That's PA's issue, not Bennings.  Hrs the one who went with a buyout.

 

While he might not be playing to a $7m level anymore, in this post season, he's not that far off, hes had a great playoffs, coming off a pretty good rdg season.

 

Unfortunately, it's the Canucks footing a lot of that bill..........I guess technically they aren't this year

 

You are hilarious.  He's not far off from a $7M defenceman?  What $7M defenceman plays the 2nd lowest minutes of all defenders on their team at 15:17 ATOI?  Tied for worst +/- among all their defencemen.  Least amount of blocked shots.  6 points in 22 games (with 2 goals... 1 of which came just last game).  And gives up on the play at the end of a crucial game 5?

 

Talk about getting an idea stuck in your head and sticking your head in the sand. 

 

I wouldn't have much issue with your statement except you go on your soap box and try and convince people that 26yo Hronek isn't worth $7M, but somehow OEL is 'not that far off' from a $7M defenceman.

 

Good grief lmao.

[PhillipBlunt]

1 minute ago, HKSR said:

You are hilarious.  He's not far off from a $7M defenceman?  What $7M defenceman plays the 2nd lowest minutes of all defenders on their team at 15:17 ATOI?  Tied for worst +/- among all their defencemen.  Least amount of blocked shots.  6 points in 22 games (with 2 goals... 1 of which came just last game).  And gives up on the play at the end of a crucial game 5?

 

Talk about getting an idea stuck in your head and sticking your head in the sand. 

 

I wouldn't have much issue with your statement except you go on your soap box and try and convince people that 26yo Hronek isn't worth $7M, but somehow OEL is 'not that far off' from a $7M defenceman.

 

Good grief lmao.

It is entertaining, if anything. 

[HKSR]

7 minutes ago, PhillipBlunt said:

It is entertaining, if anything. 

True.  He does help generate a lot of content here with the bickering, so that's a positive I guess?

[NewbieCanuckFan]

 

Just now, HKSR said:

True.  He does help generate a lot of content here with the bickering, so that's a positive I guess?

It's certainly miles better than "do we need a new head coach" or "should we still have Tocchet behind the bench" type of posts.

 

[IBatch]

7 minutes ago, HKSR said:

You are hilarious.  He's not far off from a $7M defenceman?  What $7M defenceman plays the 2nd lowest minutes of all defenders on their team at 15:17 ATOI?  Tied for worst +/- among all their defencemen.  Least amount of blocked shots.  6 points in 22 games (with 2 goals... 1 of which came just last game).  And gives up on the play at the end of a crucial game 5?

 

Talk about getting an idea stuck in your head and sticking your head in the sand. 

 

I wouldn't have much issue with your statement except you go on your soap box and try and convince people that 26yo Hronek isn't worth $7M, but somehow OEL is 'not that far off' from a $7M defenceman.

 

Good grief lmao.

Maybe he meant not far off his current paycheque?   
 

Anyways,  OEL wasn't terrible his first year with us, then hurt his ankle and the rest is what it is.   Turned out to be one of the worst deals in the clubs history given what we gave up, and the clean-up required.   Don't at all mind what happened next.   JB era was always going to hurt, can't have 14 great years and an no pool without some bad years.    SJ did a proper re-tool, made it to game six was it,  Detroit and Vancouver headed into their bad years at the same exact time.    It's not black and white that's for sure.   Some good some bad.   Personally hope Allvin can keep it up.   JB looked pretty refreshing after MG too.   Got Vrbata, solved our goaltending right away.    Had some killer drafts to set things headed in the right direction. 

 

1st in our division, would never of happened without the OEL buyout.  

[HKSR]

Just now, IBatch said:

Maybe he meant not far off his current paycheque?   
 

Anyways,  OEL wasn't terrible his first year with us, then hurt his ankle and the rest is what it is.   Turned out to be one of the worst deals in the clubs history given what we gave up, and the clean-up required.   Don't at all mind what happened next.   JB era was always going to hurt, can't have 14 great years and an no pool without some bad years.    SJ did a proper re-tool, made it to game six was it,  Detroit and Vancouver headed into their bad years at the same exact time.    It's not black and white that's for sure.   Some good some bad.   Personally hope Allvin can keep it up.   JB looked pretty refreshing after MG too.   Got Vrbata, solved our goaltending right away.    Had some killer drafts to set things headed in the right direction. 

 

1st in our division, would never of happened without the OEL buyout.  

Maybe, but then his wording is terrible... "While he might not be playing to a $7m level anymore, in this post season, he's not that far off"

 

Yup, totally agreed.  I don't mind what the OEL buyout provided for us.  The experience gained this year will pay off significantly in the long run.  I'm pretty confident the ELCs will kick in when OEL's buyout has its worst effect in a couple year's time.  Willing to bet the management team forecasted that as well.

 

Will be very curious what they end up doing with Mikheyev though.