EMBELLISHMENT is ruining Hockey.

[PeteyBoeser]

6 hours ago, NoHeart said:

We dive too

But it won’t work for us 

[Drive-By Body Pierce]

Maybe someone feeling ambitious could put together a montage of Oilers diving this playoffs, and it can titled, "How the Oilers Made it to Game 7 of the Finals."

[stawns]

There's no more embellishment than there has been in the past........the never ending replays, super slow motion and endless talking about it just makes it feel that way.

[I.Am.Ironman]

38 minutes ago, stawns said:

There's no more embellishment than there has been in the past........the never ending replays, super slow motion and endless talking about it just makes it feel that way.

That doesn't mean it shouldn't be addressed. This is the primary reason I am rooting for Florida - I don't want embellishment to be rewarded. Yes all teams do it but the Oilers take it to another level.

[stawns]

2 minutes ago, I.Am.Ironman said:

That doesn't mean it shouldn't be addressed. This is the primary reason I am rooting for Florida - I don't want embellishment to be rewarded. Yes all teams do it but the Oilers take it to another level.

 

There is a penalty for it and I've no issue with a fine after the fact.  However, the poster says it's "ruining" hockey and it obviously isn't and it's no worse than it ever was

[I.Am.Ironman]

12 minutes ago, stawns said:

 

There is a penalty for it and I've no issue with a fine after the fact.  However, the poster says it's "ruining" hockey and it obviously isn't and it's no worse than it ever was

Whether it is as bad as it has been in the past is irrelevant. The penalty is never called on its own by officials, there is no risk of going short handed if you dive. That is the point. At worst it's 4v4. The issue will be fixed if embellishment starts being called and/or reviewed resulting in teams going shorthanded.

 

It doesn't even need to be called as often as hooking, roughing, tripping etc. If the threat is there, it will stop. Fines do nothing because they are capped at $5000. If embellishment is called as often as charging, goalie interference etc that is enough (ie. the egregious offenses).

 

I'll add that I actually think the Oilers dive more than previous teams so I'd contend that it is worse than previous years. The worst part is that it is working so teams will notice which may cause the issue to worsen.

Edited June 23 by I.Am.Ironman

[Maninthebox]

On 6/22/2024 at 10:06 PM, Drive-By Body Pierce said:

Maybe someone feeling ambitious could put together a montage of Oilers diving this playoffs, and it can titled, "How the Oilers Made it to Game 7 of the Finals."

 

I actually saw a montage of the reverse, presumably by an Oilers fan. Clips included the knee on Luostarinen, and Draisaitl elbowing Barkov. In short, the dude believed these were dives because Luostarinen didn't require amputation, and Barkov's head didn't go over the glass and out of play...

[spook007]

On 6/22/2024 at 7:54 PM, SilentSam said:

There is no reason that every penalty called could not be reviewed inside of one minute, by the official who called it ,  WITHOUT the assistance of other ON ICE officials.

 

Have another official in the box ready to hit the rewind / replay as soon as the whistle is blown,  and hand off to the on ice official that called it.

He does not need a headset or “prompts” to review what HE called.

 

Other Sports go on for more than the average time played in Hockey .

Hockey is Fast.

You are spot on SS....

Its ruining the hockey game...It may very well always have been a part of it, but now we can clearly see it, so it should be dealt with...

 

There was a poster saying it should be dealt with from grass root and up, and that is a great idea... Just watch embellishment get worse and worse... Why wouldn't it?

Young players sees the superstars go down all the time after absolutely minimal contact, so of course they are going to do it as well...

 

Before these playoffs the NHL stated they were going to clamp down on embellishment... I'm not sure I have seen one single embellishment called yet...

 

Soccer is dying on its feet because of the diving and rolling around on the pitch... Its pathetic to see grown men going head to head, and then after a slight push or clash of heads throw themselves to the ground... 

[SilentSam]

56 minutes ago, spook007 said:

You are spot on SS....

Its ruining the hockey game...It may very well always have been a part of it, but now we can clearly see it, so it should be dealt with...

 

There was a poster saying it should be dealt with from grass root and up, and that is a great idea... Just watch embellishment get worse and worse... Why wouldn't it?

Young players sees the superstars go down all the time after absolutely minimal contact, so of course they are going to do it as well...

 

Before these playoffs the NHL stated they were going to clamp down on embellishment... I'm not sure I have seen one single embellishment called yet...

 

Soccer is dying on its feet because of the diving and rolling around on the pitch... Its pathetic to see grown men going head to head, and then after a slight push or clash of heads throw themselves to the ground... 

 

thanks Spook ,

it’s even more insulting to fans that it’s not cleaned up.

lose the integrity of the sport,  and you ruin the sport.

Another poster here mentioned that they have been trying to do a better job of it in the AHL , and have another rule to curtail it.

so it’s a start ,  but it comes down to officiating making the call and having the right tools to make the right call.

 

This can happen.     This game evolves about every 6-8 years to another level,.  But this is something that erodes it.

 

Refereeing needs to evolve ,.  Again.

[spook007]

2 hours ago, SilentSam said:

 

thanks Spook ,

it’s even more insulting to fans that it’s not cleaned up.

lose the integrity of the sport,  and you ruin the sport.

Another poster here mentioned that they have been trying to do a better job of it in the AHL , and have another rule to curtail it.

so it’s a start ,  but it comes down to officiating making the call and having the right tools to make the right call.

 

This can happen.     This game evolves about every 6-8 years to another level,.  But this is something that erodes it.

 

Refereeing needs to evolve ,.  Again.

Spot on.... 

I've followed football all my life, and while diving has always been part of it, it was nowhere near as bad, as it is now. 
Thing is, we are far more likely to see it with the camera actions, and replays. 
So now we jave better tools to deal with it. I can understand the refs have a tough job, but I've said it before... when they started to hand out retrospective suspensions for diving it took a lot of the diving out of the game. 
when I see a player holding his face and replays showed he hasn't been touched, he should instantly receive a 3 game suspension. It stops it instantly, as no team wants their players to sit in the press box unnecessarily. 

[J-23]

Almost every team is diving these days.

 

The refs don’t call it a penalty so there’s only going to be more of it.

[King Heffy]

8 hours ago, spook007 said:

Spot on.... 

I've followed football all my life, and while diving has always been part of it, it was nowhere near as bad, as it is now. 
Thing is, we are far more likely to see it with the camera actions, and replays. 
So now we jave better tools to deal with it. I can understand the refs have a tough job, but I've said it before... when they started to hand out retrospective suspensions for diving it took a lot of the diving out of the game. 
when I see a player holding his face and replays showed he hasn't been touched, he should instantly receive a 3 game suspension. It stops it instantly, as no team wants their players to sit in the press box unnecessarily. 

Honestly, the refs also have to start getting suspended for not calling obvious dives.

[Gnarcore]

On 6/23/2024 at 9:07 AM, stawns said:

There's no more embellishment than there has been in the past........the never ending replays, super slow motion and endless talking about it just makes it feel that way.

There is way more than in the past if you don't quantify how far back you're going Of the past 20 years I'd agree. But once you go to mid 90s and further back there was way less. 

[stawns]

4 minutes ago, Gnarcore said:

There is way more than in the past if you don't quantify how far back you're going Of the past 20 years I'd agree. But once you go to mid 90s and further back there was way less. 

 

No there wasn't, there was quite a bit in the 70's and tons in the 80's.

[Bob Long]

10 minutes ago, stawns said:

 

No there wasn't, there was quite a bit in the 70's and tons in the 80's.

 

such a different era tho, guys could police themselves back then. 

[Fantomex]

Fines. Fine every dive, and each subsequent dive gets an even higher fine. $5,000 > $25,000 > $125,000 > $625,000 etc...

 

You're welcome, I've fixed the NHL McDiver problem. Hit them where it hurts the most, the wallet. No player will take a chance at diving if they know they're gonna get their bank account drained. 

[IBatch]

3 hours ago, stawns said:

 

No there wasn't, there was quite a bit in the 70's and tons in the 80's.

Not that I remember.   Once you had a reputation, you got owned.   It started in the 90's and snowballed from there.   The instigator penalty added this to the sport, as did the cheap shots.   Don't remember the kneeing and headhunting in the 70's and 80's, sure do in the 90's and onwards.    Bryan Marchment,  Kasperitus, Samuelson.     Then Cooke took it to an entirely new level.    Missing some guys i'm sure.    This game is so much tamer at at the same time can be more dangerous.   Guys wouldn't do what they would with tiny little leather shoulder pads and an undershirt.     And the need for speed.    The hits are nothing like they used to be regardless.   Don't see hip checks anymore.   Rarely see guys get exploded for trolly tracking.    What Trouba does used to be the norm.

Edited June 25 by IBatch

[IBatch]

3 hours ago, Bob Long said:

 

such a different era tho, guys could police themselves back then. 

Yep.   Good luck trying to remove a reputation.  

[IBatch]

3 hours ago, Gnarcore said:

There is way more than in the past if you don't quantify how far back you're going Of the past 20 years I'd agree. But once you go to mid 90s and further back there was way less. 

Agreed. 

[IBatch]

16 hours ago, J-23 said:

Almost every team is diving these days.

 

The refs don’t call it a penalty so there’s only going to be more of it.

Sad but true.  Wonder how much EP embellishes.   "Drawing a penalty" isn't diving,  but come on man, nobody falls over like he does in the history of the Canuck's .   Not at such a slight amount of contact.   So suspect hes doing it too.   We are happy for the power play though aren't we?

Edited June 25 by IBatch

[stawns]

1 hour ago, IBatch said:

Not that I remember.   Once you had a reputation, you got owned.   It started in the 90's and snowballed from there.   The instigator penalty added this to the sport, as did the cheap shots.   Don't remember the kneeing and headhunting in the 70's and 80's, sure do in the 90's and onwards.    Bryan Marchment,  Kasperitus, Samuelson.     Then Cooke took it to an entirely new level.    Missing some guys i'm sure.    This game is so much tamer at at the same time can be more dangerous.   Guys wouldn't do what they would with tiny little leather shoulder pads and an undershirt.     And the need for speed.    The hits are nothing like they used to be regardless.   Don't see hip checks anymore.   Rarely see guys get exploded for trolly tracking.    What Trouba does used to be the norm.

 

Of course it did.  And I agree that guys that did it for a reputation, but that's no different than it is now.

 

Again, I'm not saying it shouldn't have consequences, just that it's even remotely ruining the game, which is what this thread claims

[JeremyCuddles]

The worst part of it is, every team does it. Same with ours. Lots of instances where our players go down easy, I mentioned this on reddit and Canucks fans instantly started bringing up the McDavid high stick. Yes calls go under the radar, and that one was missed and they failed to correct the call later like they've shown to have done before and since. But that doesn't change the fact we have flops of our own. Not to mention I hate how every on the line play is an immediate yell at the ref moment in every game. Just play the damn game. The league needs to start fining flops. And instead of double penalties, if someone flops. Just the flopper goes off.