ngoway Posted June 25 Share Posted June 25 (edited) Don't really know DeMelo's game, but for one of their top RD to get him at under 5m a year is more than reasonable. Especially when top 4 RD have been in short supply and have been commanding some hefty contracts. Also to have the term at only 4 years is some tidy work from Winnipeg. Edited June 25 by ngoway 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canucks curse Posted June 25 Share Posted June 25 I don’t think Zads should be getting a higher AAV This should help us right ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 25 Share Posted June 25 2 minutes ago, ngoway said: Don't really know DeMelo's game, but for one of their top RD to get him at under 5m a year is more than reasonable. Especially when top 4 RD have been in short supply and have been commanding some hefty contracts. Also to have the term at only 4 years is some tidy work from Winnipeg. Demelo is a more defensive Zadorov. Both have their benefits, especially in the Playoffs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canucks curse Posted June 25 Share Posted June 25 3 minutes ago, c00kies said: Demelo is a more defensive Zadorov. Both have their benefits, especially in the Playoffs. Demelo has been top pairing RD for years RD are a premium position Zads has been a no. 6/5/4 (at best) whole career 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flickyoursedin Posted June 25 Share Posted June 25 1 hour ago, HKSR said: Yeah that's what I've been saying for awhile. If Zadorov prices himself too high, PA/JR are best walking away and spending that money on a top 4 RHD. It would suck to lose the toughness of big Z, but a top 4 RHD is far more valuable overall, and helps to balance our D pairs much, much better. Grab a bottom pair LHD like Forbort, and re-sign Myers and we are set. Hughes-Hronek Soucy-Top4RHD Forbort-Myers Couldn’t agree more but I’d stagger the lines! You need Hronek to anchor the 2nd pair. Hughes can carry a lesser talented guy. Hughes UFA Dillon Hronek Soucy Myers 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeremyCuddles Posted June 25 Share Posted June 25 Good, this puts a ballpark number on Big Z. But this also sucks cause DeMelo is Tanev but younger and less injury prone. He was someone I was interested in targeting in free agency. Him with Huggy so Hronek can command his own pair. Oh well. We can still possibly target Tanev. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Odjickwillkillyou Posted June 25 Share Posted June 25 Personally I would not give Z more than 4.5 with term since he has never performed at a top-4 clip in his almost 10-year career. In some ways I liken this to Dak's situation where a big, older, physical player performed well in a contract year. I love Z, but not at 5 when we can probably get Dillon for closer to 3.5-4 per. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gawdzukes Posted June 25 Share Posted June 25 47 minutes ago, Bob Long said: I really like the intangible fear part though, you know those big hits matter. I see what you're saying but I don't mind overpaying a bit to not be smurfy. I hear ya. It's definitely a super valuable piece we've been missing for years. It raises loud alarm bells for me instantly as far as cap construction goes but I have so much more faith in this management group to figure that stuff out. We do need some defenders with smarter IQ and puck skills though too (not just size) ... we got thoroughly worked by the Oilers in that department. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott72 Posted June 25 Share Posted June 25 Getting a reliable Defenseman like DeMelo for 4.9 M AAV is a great deal for WPG. As a Canucks fan, this is what we can/should use to measure up Zadorov. DeMelo is more sound defensively than Zadorov. We can't call DeMelo defensive defenseman. He's coming off his best career in terms of points. His last two seasons have been 27 & 31 points respectively. And Zadorov's career best season is 22 points. Only edge Zadorov has is his 14 goal season with Flames (could that be an anomaly?). Sure Zadorov has physical presence, but DeMelo is not a floater defenseman either. He can be bodycheck and be physical as well. Also, he is a RHD. Which are hard to get hold of in this market. So after this deal, Zadorov should be around 4.25 M AAV for 5-6 years. DeMelo is 2 years older than Zadorov He signed 4 years deal right now. So giving 1-2 extra years to Zadorov should be a fair offer for both sides. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted June 25 Share Posted June 25 Good for Winnipeg. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bh90 Posted June 25 Share Posted June 25 that's a solid deal and it should create a comparable for Pesce, Roy, Tanev and to some extend Zadorov. I think Pesce will get more based on reputation alone. He's regarded as a very good defensive defeseman and some team will overpay. Most teams in the NHL could use another top 4 RHD so there will be some silly money thrown out there by someone Pesce - 6M Roy - 5.5M Tanev - 4.75M (he'll go to a contender) Zadorov - ??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flickyoursedin Posted June 25 Share Posted June 25 2 minutes ago, bh90 said: that's a solid deal and it should create a comparable for Pesce, Roy, Tanev and to some extend Zadorov. I think Pesce will get more based on reputation alone. He's regarded as a very good defensive defeseman and some team will overpay. Most teams in the NHL could use another top 4 RHD so there will be some silly money thrown out there by someone Pesce - 6M Roy - 5.5M Tanev - 4.75M (he'll go to a contender) Zadorov - ??? Tanev will go to a contender! He’ll come home to Vancouver! Hughes Tanev Dillon Hronek Soucy Myers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ngoway Posted June 25 Share Posted June 25 5 minutes ago, Scott72 said: Getting a reliable Defenseman like DeMelo for 4.9 M AAV is a great deal for WPG. As a Canucks fan, this is what we can/should use to measure up Zadorov. DeMelo is more sound defensively than Zadorov. We can't call DeMelo defensive defenseman. He's coming off his best career in terms of points. His last two seasons have been 27 & 31 points respectively. And Zadorov's career best season is 22 points. Only edge Zadorov has is his 14 goal season with Flames (could that be an anomaly?). Sure Zadorov has physical presence, but DeMelo is not a floater defenseman either. He can be bodycheck and be physical as well. Also, he is a RHD. Which are hard to get hold of in this market. So after this deal, Zadorov should be around 4.25 M AAV for 5-6 years. DeMelo is 2 years older than Zadorov He signed 4 years deal right now. So giving 1-2 extra years to Zadorov should be a fair offer for both sides. Much easier said than done. While I agree that as a comparable this would make sense for Zadorov to sign for a similar annual cap hit than DeMelo, it might not play out that way. Looks like DeMelo very much wanted to stay in Winnipeg and did them a solid by taking less money and term than he likely could have gotten on the open market. Zadorov has stated he wants to stay in Vancouver, but is also wanting a good salary and term which he can likely get in free agency. It's up to management and Zadorov's camp now to find the middle ground (hopefully) which would be fair on both ends. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rekker Posted June 25 Share Posted June 25 3 minutes ago, ngoway said: Much easier said than done. While I agree that as a comparable this would make sense for Zadorov to sign for a similar annual cap hit than DeMelo, it might not play out that way. Looks like DeMelo very much wanted to stay in Winnipeg and did them a solid by taking less money and term than he likely could have gotten on the open market. Zadorov has stated he wants to stay in Vancouver, but is also wanting a good salary and term which he can likely get in free agency. It's up to management and Zadorov's camp now to find the middle ground (hopefully) which would be fair on both ends. 5.5 with term seems fair for Zads after seeing the Demalo contract. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bh90 Posted June 25 Share Posted June 25 4 minutes ago, flickyoursedin said: Tanev will go to a contender! He’ll come home to Vancouver! Hughes Tanev Dillon Hronek Soucy Myers Would you have the above or Hughes - Roy Dillon - Hronek Soucy - Myers? i like Roy and he's younger. If we can get him at 4.9 x 5 years i'd do that! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ngoway Posted June 25 Share Posted June 25 1 minute ago, Rekker said: 5.5 with term seems fair for Zads after seeing the Demalo contract. I'd agree with that! 5.5 is more than fair as I'd want to see Zadorov prove he can be consistent while playing top 4 minutes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coconuts Posted June 25 Share Posted June 25 Meanwhile, on the Tanev front Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flickyoursedin Posted June 25 Share Posted June 25 3 minutes ago, bh90 said: Would you have the above or Hughes - Roy Dillon - Hronek Soucy - Myers? i like Roy and he's younger. If we can get him at 4.9 x 5 years i'd do that! That’s better but Roy is younger I can see somebody giving him 6 mill a year. Tanev is older and often injured I could see him around 5 mill. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diamonds Posted June 25 Share Posted June 25 DeMelo is a guy I was hoping he might be able to pick up. But as others have said, it does now set the market on 2nd pair ~30 year old defensemen. It makes me hopeful we might be able to get Matt Roy for around $5.5M x 5. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott72 Posted June 25 Share Posted June 25 1 minute ago, ngoway said: Much easier said than done. While I agree that as a comparable this would make sense for Zadorov to sign for a similar annual cap hit than DeMelo, it might not play out that way. Looks like DeMelo very much wanted to stay in Winnipeg and did them a solid by taking less money and term than he likely could have gotten on the open market. Zadorov has stated he wants to stay in Vancouver, but is also wanting a good salary and term which he can likely get in free agency. It's up to management and Zadorov's camp now to find the middle ground (hopefully) which would be fair on both ends. Definitely agree that Zadorov can cash in big bag in open market. Some team would be willing to throw down money at him. But then question Zadorov needs to ask himself is that is he willing to be in similar situation that he was in Calgary? where playing isn't really fun. Let's be honest, last season no one expected Canucks to perform at the level they did. Yet it was fun to play in this city. From Zadorov's point of view, I do understand that being a professional athlete, he wants to cash in as much as he can on this contract and provide for his family. But he also needs to weigh in about where it's fun to play so he enjoys the game and not be miserable. I am sure he wants to be with a competitive team and gets his hands on the cup. Anything north of 5M AAV for him is foolish imo (but who am I? just an optimistic, hopeful Canucks fan). He will get north of 5M AAV from a team that's not up for cup contender race (sure anything can happen, Canucks are an example from last season). But him wanting to stay with a contending team, it will be hard for him to get over 5M. So now it will come down to 500-750k. For any average person that's a lot of money. For some it's even 5-10 years of annual income. He will have to decide what brings him joy of playing and how he is treated in the hockey market by management and fans. As an athlete I am sure it must feel nice when fans cheer your name and value your presence on the team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ngoway Posted June 25 Share Posted June 25 1 minute ago, Scott72 said: Definitely agree that Zadorov can cash in big bag in open market. Some team would be willing to throw down money at him. But then question Zadorov needs to ask himself is that is he willing to be in similar situation that he was in Calgary? where playing isn't really fun. Let's be honest, last season no one expected Canucks to perform at the level they did. Yet it was fun to play in this city. From Zadorov's point of view, I do understand that being a professional athlete, he wants to cash in as much as he can on this contract and provide for his family. But he also needs to weigh in about where it's fun to play so he enjoys the game and not be miserable. I am sure he wants to be with a competitive team and gets his hands on the cup. Anything north of 5M AAV for him is foolish imo (but who am I? just an optimistic, hopeful Canucks fan). He will get north of 5M AAV from a team that's not up for cup contender race (sure anything can happen, Canucks are an example from last season). But him wanting to stay with a contending team, it will be hard for him to get over 5M. So now it will come down to 500-750k. For any average person that's a lot of money. For some it's even 5-10 years of annual income. He will have to decide what brings him joy of playing and how he is treated in the hockey market by management and fans. As an athlete I am sure it must feel nice when fans cheer your name and value your presence on the team. Something that occurred to me as I often had the thought as well to say "hey, why don't these guys take 500k-750k less a year just to stay". Even just thinking about if we were to change our jobs, would we want to take 10k, heck even 5k less than we make in our current jobs? I think something I was overlooking was minimizing how much impact that actually has at their level when we even feel it at a lesser level. I very much hope we sign Zadorov to a reasonable contract with reasonable term, but I think also taking into account that 500k-750k (or any other difference) can really affect their decision even if it doesn't seem like that much of a difference to us. All that to say I do hope we get Zadorov around the 5m mark with some decent but not too crazy term. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoCupSyndrome Posted June 25 Share Posted June 25 Good deal but shows that the patient operators will likely come out on top rather than panicking in the first few days of free agency. Set your number and go after the best options in a steady and efficiently manner. Get the key piece or two and then wait for the deals later in the summer (trade or UFA). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diamonds Posted June 25 Share Posted June 25 55 minutes ago, ngoway said: Something that occurred to me as I often had the thought as well to say "hey, why don't these guys take 500k-750k less a year just to stay". Even just thinking about if we were to change our jobs, would we want to take 10k, heck even 5k less than we make in our current jobs? I think something I was overlooking was minimizing how much impact that actually has at their level when we even feel it at a lesser level. I very much hope we sign Zadorov to a reasonable contract with reasonable term, but I think also taking into account that 500k-750k (or any other difference) can really affect their decision even if it doesn't seem like that much of a difference to us. All that to say I do hope we get Zadorov around the 5m mark with some decent but not too crazy term. Yes and no, just because a percentage is the same doesn't mean it impacts the same way. In Vancouver, the difference between making $65K a year vs $75K a year could be the difference between needing a roommate and being able to afford a 1 bedroom. The difference between $4.75M a year vs $5.5M a year might mean that you have to settle for a house in Kits instead of a house in Shaughnessy (or an Audi instead of a Ferrari). Not really the same thing, both are pretty nice options. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dizzle Posted June 25 Share Posted June 25 1 hour ago, Rekker said: 5.5 with term seems fair for Zads after seeing the Demalo contract. I was thinking the exact opposite... thought this contract makes Z more like 4.5-4.8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rekker Posted June 25 Share Posted June 25 Just now, Dizzle said: I was thinking the exact opposite... thought this contract makes Z more like 4.5-4.8 4.5, 5.5. Man, don't care. Just a must signing either way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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