Kevin Biestra Posted June 26 Share Posted June 26 31 minutes ago, IBatch said: Felt the same way until he didn't have his army of stars backing him in the late 2000's. What he did near the end of his career is what flipped me into realizing this guy is really really good. And not a Corey Crawford. Yeah I certainly have him closer to the clear Hall of Fame goalies than to the one and done guys who seemed like they were just good enough to not lose the Cup for their team. Would have been happy if Cloutier could have been a Corey Crawford in the playoffs though. Every year it just seemed like a countdown until the implosion. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coconuts Posted June 26 Author Share Posted June 26 21 hours ago, DrJockitch said: Definitely deserves it. Just the story of him escaping Soviet Union is enough for me. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kragar Posted June 26 Share Posted June 26 22 hours ago, Kevin Biestra said: Mogilny like Barrasso was just not that well liked...but I don't care about that stuff. Too much Buffalo stink? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gurn Posted June 26 Share Posted June 26 https://www.msn.com/en-ca/sports/nhl/alexander-mogilny-s-omission-reveals-key-flaws-in-hall-of-fame-selection-process/ar-BB1oWx5o?ocid=hpmsn&cvid=e6b79f044af24b7dbd969215776c1f98&ei=72 "Alexander Mogilny’s habitual omission from the Hockey Hall of Fame becomes incrementally more insulting every year. Mogilny has been eligible for induction since 2009 and for myriad reasons — some concrete, others speculative — he’s been effectively barred from the Hall, for seemingly no reason. -------------------------------------- 9 more paragraphs at link. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IBatch Posted June 26 Share Posted June 26 53 minutes ago, Gurn said: Mogilny would not kiss enough butt, to get in right away. And the heat he got because of his 'flying phobia' was way out of bounds. Iirc Pat Quinn called him the most talented player, he ever coached. From an Adrian Aucoin interview "“Mogilny looks up, he’s like, ‘Mike, have you ever heard of how I defected, how they fucking threatened my family, how they wanted to kill everybody? You think you’re fucking scaring me?’ -------------------------------- tick off the old guard and pay a price. Too bad the 'old guard' got butt hurt so badly/quickly. ----------------------------- HHOF- same assholes that waited till Pat Burns was dead before putting him in. Sad Pat Burns. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IBatch Posted June 26 Share Posted June 26 (edited) 2 hours ago, Kevin Biestra said: Yeah Osgood certainly has a case. I feel like goalies have largely been remedied after Barrasso / Vernon but I think Ron Hextall and John Ross Roach are my big two. Then it's food for thought with Osgood, Cujo, Glenn Resch and maybe a few others. Osgood has the Cups and the AS2...but for whatever reason Cujo still "feels" a little more like a Hall of Famer in some ways. He was kind of like the Luongo of his day...everyone kind of knew he was a top 3 in the NHLish goalie but it was never confirmed with Cups or awards. Cujo and Luongo have a lot more in common than Osgood. Because they both were considered Vezina guys but didn't win a cup. Cujo also has more wins..IMO. In less games. Then Luongo. Actually think they are on par. I truly hate that they turned tie games into a gong show. As far as Osgood goes, product of the team, bought into that until he kicked serious butt late in his career. He was something else for Detroit, and just as important or more then Lidstrom, Zetterberg and Datsyuk during those PIT finals. Kind of made me re-think those teams a little. Plus well, he was part of the COL-Detroit battle too. As far as Cujo goes, a snub. Same as Barrasso. Vernon ... cups are cups but have him in the same realm as Beezer. A little ahead of Ricther. Edited June 26 by IBatch 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IBatch Posted June 26 Share Posted June 26 (edited) 37 minutes ago, Gurn said: https://www.msn.com/en-ca/sports/nhl/alexander-mogilny-s-omission-reveals-key-flaws-in-hall-of-fame-selection-process/ar-BB1oWx5o?ocid=hpmsn&cvid=e6b79f044af24b7dbd969215776c1f98&ei=72 "Alexander Mogilny’s habitual omission from the Hockey Hall of Fame becomes incrementally more insulting every year. Mogilny has been eligible for induction since 2009 and for myriad reasons — some concrete, others speculative — he’s been effectively barred from the Hall, for seemingly no reason. -------------------------------------- 9 more paragraphs at link. The dichotomy is that if they didn't honour him and and instead honoured some a-holes that played, the Sedins would be waiting a couple decades. There are a lot of guys waiting for the call. One of their metrics's is on character. Why Rod the Bod isn't in though, is something I won't ever understand until he gets the nod. A lot of guys got in on longevity in a very difficult era already. Edited June 26 by IBatch 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Biestra Posted June 26 Share Posted June 26 19 minutes ago, IBatch said: Cujo and Luongo have a lot more in common than Osgood. Because they both were considered Vezina guys but didn't win a cup. Cujo also has more wins..IMO. In less games. Then Luongo. Actually think they are on par. I truly hate that they turned tie games into a gong show. As far as Osgood goes, product of the team, bought into that until he kicked serious butt late in his career. He was something else for Detroit, and just as important or more then Lidstrom, Zetterberg and Datsyuk during those PIT finals. Kind of made me re-think those teams a little. Plus well, he was part of the COL-Detroit battle too. As far as Cujo goes, a snub. Same as Barrasso. Vernon ... cups are cups but have him in the same realm as Beezer. I forgot to mention Mike Liut as a potential HOF candidate (beat Gretzky for league MVP). Anyway he and Don Beaupre went somewhat underrated and unheralded during their careers for being on middling teams. And then there were other goalies approaching as good like Glen Hanlon and a few others who had the same issue. Maybe Osgood was like the Don Beaupre who actually ended up on a powerhouse team...or a Glen Hanlon at least. A handful of goalies like those guys would be in the HOF if they had traded places with Fuhr I think. Can't really punish a guy for having some good luck instead of bad. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Biestra Posted June 26 Share Posted June 26 54 minutes ago, Kragar said: Too much Buffalo stink? Could be. Took forever for Pierre Turgeon to get in. Rick Martin and Rene Robert aren't in. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IBatch Posted June 26 Share Posted June 26 (edited) 44 minutes ago, Kevin Biestra said: I forgot to mention Mike Liut as a potential HOF candidate (beat Gretzky for league MVP). Anyway he and Don Beaupre went somewhat underrated and unheralded during their careers for being on middling teams. And then there were other goalies approaching as good like Glen Hanlon and a few others who had the same issue. Maybe Osgood was like the Don Beaupre who actually ended up on a powerhouse team...or a Glen Hanlon at least. A handful of goalies like those guys would be in the HOF if they had traded places with Fuhr I think. Can't really punish a guy for having some good luck instead of bad. Grant Furh was pretty elite even in the mid 90's in St. Louis. For sure a first ballot HHOFer. Guy was a breakaway killer. Osgood had a bad rep, middling goalie great team. Until it wasn't nearly so great just pretty good. And helped them make it great. Do agree that players shouldn't be punished for not being on great teams for sure. Shea Weber is one of those guys. Don Beaupre? That's a big reach isn't it? Know that Osgood didn't have a great rep, but he more then proved himself with just Datsyuk and Zetterberg and Lindstrom. A totally different team then the 90's to early 2000's one. Edited June 26 by IBatch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Biestra Posted June 26 Share Posted June 26 3 minutes ago, IBatch said: Grant Furh was pretty elite even in the mid 90's in St. Louis. For sure a first ballot HHOFer. Guy was a breakaway killer. Osgood had a bad rep, middling goalie great team. Until it wasn't nearly so great just pretty good. And helped them make it great. Fuhr was great in St. Louis...79 games one year, could have won the Hart. Not saying he wasn't great, just that there were some only somewhat heralded goalies who could have taken his place and the Oilers would have still won their Cups or maybe only lost one of them. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IBatch Posted June 26 Share Posted June 26 4 minutes ago, Kevin Biestra said: Fuhr was great in St. Louis...79 games one year, could have won the Hart. Not saying he wasn't great, just that there were some only somewhat heralded goalies who could have taken his place and the Oilers would have still won their Cups or maybe only lost one of them. Gretzky thinks he's the best goalie all-time, and the best athlete on their team. Didn't matter what else they did, ping pong, golf, basketball or baseball, he was their star. Don't hold him in the same esteem. He did inspire the next generation though including Luongo. Coco was a pretty good documentary. The guy was special. Remember him playing in the Victoria Cougars as a kid. Just special. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rip The Mesh Posted June 26 Share Posted June 26 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rindiculous Posted June 27 Share Posted June 27 I can’t actually believe it took this long for Datsyuk to get into the hall of fame. He was the defining player of the mid to late 2000s. Sure he didn’t score as many points as some, but there’s no other player from that era who is idolized more Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GuyLafleur10 Posted June 27 Share Posted June 27 Isn't this the first year Datsyuk is eligible for the HHOF, he stopped playing professional hockey in 2021. Maybe there is a bias in the selection panel of the HHOF against Mogilny, did he have a beef with anyone on the committee. Larionov is on there, he must be pulling for Mogilny to get in there. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Biestra Posted June 27 Share Posted June 27 29 minutes ago, GuyLafleur10 said: Isn't this the first year Datsyuk is eligible for the HHOF, he stopped playing professional hockey in 2021. Maybe there is a bias in the selection panel of the HHOF against Mogilny, did he have a beef with anyone on the committee. Larionov is on there, he must be pulling for Mogilny to get in there. Datsyuk last played in 2016 I think. It's been a while but there isn't much rhyme or reason to how long people have to wait. Pronger and Weber still have active NHL contracts. Doug Wilson has to wait about 30 years. Sedins are first ballot but Datsyuk waits 5 years or so once eligible...I don't really see the Sedins as more deserving as Datsyuk. Luongo is first ballot but Rogie Vachon has to wait 35 years or something. Etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GuyLafleur10 Posted June 27 Share Posted June 27 (edited) 10 minutes ago, Kevin Biestra said: Datsyuk last played in 2016 I think. It's been a while but there isn't much rhyme or reason to how long people have to wait. Pronger and Weber still have active NHL contracts. Doug Wilson has to wait about 30 years. Sedins are first ballot but Datsyuk waits 5 years or so once eligible...I don't really see the Sedins as more deserving as Datsyuk. Luongo is first ballot but Rogie Vachon has to wait 35 years or something. Etc. Datsyuk stopped playing in he NHL in 2016 but continued his professional career in the KHL till 2021. I always have to remind myself it's not the NHL HHOF but HHOF. Best case example, Jaromir Jagr. Edited June 27 by GuyLafleur10 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Biestra Posted June 27 Share Posted June 27 (edited) 1 hour ago, GuyLafleur10 said: Datsyuk stopped playing in he NHL in 2016 but continued his professional career in the KHL till 2021. I always have to remind myself it's not the NHL HHOF but HHOF. Best case example, Jaromir Jagr. Then it looks like he's a first ballot guy. I didn't really follow him after he left the NHL. Yeah Jagr might be 70 before he lets himself become eligible the way things are going. He might actually go after Gordie's "pro decades" record without it even being a publicity stunt. Bad luck that he started in 1990 instead of 1989. Edited June 27 by Kevin Biestra 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmok Posted June 27 Share Posted June 27 (edited) Slightly off topic but related to Shea Weber in the Hall. Ok.. the NHL needs to take a long long long look at the way contracts and cap hits work. It makes no sense that Utah is carrying over 7 million in ltir cap for a player that is RETIRED and now in the hall of fame (Shea Weber) . He wasn't bought out he RETIRED. Now if a player is legitimately injured and can't play, I do not begrudge them getting paid their real dollars through insurance or whatever. But if the player is basically done and definitely isn't coming back then the team should not be saddled with that cap anymore even if they still pay him. The player can be made whole outside of the cap system. Chris Pronger was being paid by the Flyers and they had a cap hit for years... WHILE HE WORKED IN THE FRONT OFFICE OF THE LEAGUE. Its crazy. He was clearly never going to play again through no fault of the team so why are they being penalized but the player can go on with their life, get paid by the NHL team AND get paid from another job, including in the NHL (not even getting into the blatant conflict of interest in that particular scenario)? They even "traded" him/ his cap hit to .. of course Arizona/Utah. Which brings me to the Canucks with Michael Ferland. The canucks signed Ferland in good faith to I think 4 years. He played like 14 games. He was never going to play again and was in fact off doing other things/jobs like coaching.. not even trying to come back.. so why were the canucks saddled with the cap hit? And same now with Tucker Poolman. The guy has not played in years and isn't coming back at 31. He is paid his money and that is great. But why do the Canucks have to dance around this 2.5 million cap hit rather than just be able to use it like normal. Its a really dumb system and just one more thing that makes the NHL look like amateur hour. Edited June 27 by rmok Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rip The Mesh Posted June 28 Share Posted June 28 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IBatch Posted June 28 Share Posted June 28 (edited) On 6/26/2024 at 11:47 PM, Rindiculous said: I can’t actually believe it took this long for Datsyuk to get into the hall of fame. He was the defining player of the mid to late 2000s. Sure he didn’t score as many points as some, but there’s no other player from that era who is idolized more It's his first year eligible. How about Martin St. Louis? Or just go with the basics like Iginla, Alfie, Selanne, Sakic, Jagr ... or someone the same age like Thornton. Yes there were others. Datsyuk was a great player, for his era no doubt. Not the best era. Edited June 28 by IBatch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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