German Canuck Posted June 30 Share Posted June 30 If Joshua is not worth 3.25M then Zadorov is not worth more than 4M Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmok Posted June 30 Share Posted June 30 2 minutes ago, German Canuck said: Ok now some guys start complaining about "every" contract? Pathetic Every deal so far is absolutely fair for what the player has done last season !!! Joshua's deal sucks. He's a third line winger with about 3 months of NHL level 3rd line play in his 28 years. ... Giving him 4 years of term at about a million too much per year is not a good deal even based on last year. If Joshua's contract is considered "good" or 'fair'.. then be prepared for Hoglander to get 6x6 next year, because he has been a FAR better NHL player for far longer and is much younger. . 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
German Canuck Posted June 30 Share Posted June 30 1 minute ago, rmok said: Joshua's deal sucks. He's a third line winger with about 3 months of NHL level 3rd line play in his 28 years. ... Giving him 4 years of term at about a million too much per year is not a good deal even based on last year. If Joshua's contract is considered "good" or 'fair'.. then be prepared for Hoglander to get 6x6 next year, because he has been a FAR better NHL player for far longer and is much younger. . Joshuas contract is fair for what he has done and his way to play the game. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmok Posted June 30 Share Posted June 30 1 minute ago, German Canuck said: If Joshua is not worth 3.25M then Zadorov is not worth more than 4M Sure he is. Top 4 defensemen with 10 years of experience and show up in the play offs, are worth a lot more than 28 year old 3rd liners that have barely made the nhl and only put up about 3 months of actual 3rd line NHL play and who disappeared i the playoffs. Podz had 14 goals his rookie season.... Joshua had 18 and got this ridiculous contract. Pretty sure podz would be a lot better value on the 3rd line this year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmok Posted June 30 Share Posted June 30 1 minute ago, German Canuck said: Joshuas contract is fair for what he has done and his way to play the game. No it isn't. Under no metric. He's had like 3 months of good (3rd line level) NHL play by the age of 28. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrJockitch Posted June 30 Share Posted June 30 (edited) 10 minutes ago, rmok said: I'm not the one that made the comparison. Also is "buying UFA years " really relevant to a guy that is 28 and has barely played in the NHL? Buying UFA years is generally relavant to good players who are likely to actually be in the league. Which hasn't been the case with Joshua. Fact of the matter is .. 2m for 2 years for a better more productive player, that plays the more valuable position, and is 4 years younger.. in no way makes joshua's inflated contract look like a bargain.. very much the opposite. Control of a player is one of the biggest determinants of salary. Belittling that is foolish. There are other factors that go into determining salary other than position and counting stats. Dak was first PKer over the boards and used in shutdown role. PFs also typically paid more because of the value they bring outside of just the counting stats. Anyway using a bottom 6 centre who had a career high 30 points and 12 goals and -5 seems a poor comparable to Dak and seems silly whoever did it. The best comparable on our team is Blueger who was better and cheaper on a UFA deal. Edited June 30 by DrJockitch 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
German Canuck Posted June 30 Share Posted June 30 (edited) 3 minutes ago, rmok said: Sure he is. Top 4 defensemen with 10 years of experience and show up in the play offs, are worth a lot more than 28 year old 3rd liners that have barely made the nhl and only put up about 3 months of actual 3rd line NHL play and who disappeared i the playoffs. Podz had 14 goals his rookie season.... Joshua had 18 and got this ridiculous contract. Pretty sure podz would be a lot better value on the 3rd line this year. Top 4 defensemen but with ice time like a 5/6 d men over is whole career?! What do you think is Zadorov worth? Edited June 30 by German Canuck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rekker Posted June 30 Share Posted June 30 32 minutes ago, rmok said: Sure he is. Top 4 defensemen with 10 years of experience and show up in the play offs, are worth a lot more than 28 year old 3rd liners that have barely made the nhl and only put up about 3 months of actual 3rd line NHL play and who disappeared i the playoffs. Podz had 14 goals his rookie season.... Joshua had 18 and got this ridiculous contract. Pretty sure podz would be a lot better value on the 3rd line this year. So you are saying pay Zads whatever he wants for his stellar, short sample size showing, but don't pay Joshua for his short sample size showing? I want Zads here more than anything but he is not perfect defensively. It's why he has struggled to historically hold down a top four spot. Canucks went to 5 per season, or close to it. This is on Zads for wanting money over being here and he's entitled to that. Canucks are in desperate need of size an speed on the wings so losing Joshau would of hurt. It's a bit of a dice roll but considering the third line is intact for two more years, worth the risk. We also needed Zads physicality on the back end and management made a more than fair offer. Love the guy but it doesn't look like he really wanted to stay here enough after all. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewbieCanuckFan Posted June 30 Share Posted June 30 50 minutes ago, German Canuck said: If Joshua is not worth 3.25M then Zadorov is not worth more than 4M It's a moot point since he already turned down $5 million on a longer term deal (than Joshua's term). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rekker Posted June 30 Share Posted June 30 Just now, NewbieCanuckFan said: It's a moot point since he already turned down $5 million on a longer term deal (than Joshua's term). Exactly, get over it fans. This decision is on Zads. The offer the Canucks made was more than fair. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spook007 Posted June 30 Share Posted June 30 55 minutes ago, rmok said: Joshua's deal sucks. He's a third line winger with about 3 months of NHL level 3rd line play in his 28 years. ... Giving him 4 years of term at about a million too much per year is not a good deal even based on last year. If Joshua's contract is considered "good" or 'fair'.. then be prepared for Hoglander to get 6x6 next year, because he has been a FAR better NHL player for far longer and is much younger. . Yeah once Hoglander drops the gloves after a thunderous hit and start fighting, we'll discuss his pay... until then, maybe just let him grow a little more.. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spook007 Posted June 30 Share Posted June 30 (edited) 1 hour ago, rmok said: Sure he is. Top 4 defensemen with 10 years of experience and show up in the play offs, are worth a lot more than 28 year old 3rd liners that have barely made the nhl and only put up about 3 months of actual 3rd line NHL play and who disappeared i the playoffs. Podz had 14 goals his rookie season.... Joshua had 18 and got this ridiculous contract. Pretty sure podz would be a lot better value on the 3rd line this year. Pretty sure he wouldn't as he would have been there instantly... but lets just hope that this will be the case, cause at the moment he hasn't moved the needle enough for management. Furthermore, management might (not saying they have) have gone a little higher than they normally would for him because of his insanely good chemistry with Garland... We spent an eternity finding a position for Garland, and we finally did... Actually thought they were going to trade Garland if Joshua was off somewhere else.. PKs, hits, drops them, scores and is part of one of the best 3rd lines in hockey... why are you so upset about him? That 3rd line was one of the success stories last season.... Not his fault they didn't come to terms with big Zad... Edited June 30 by spook007 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gawdzukes Posted June 30 Share Posted June 30 1 hour ago, spook007 said: Pretty sure he wouldn't as he would have been there instantly... but lets just hope that this will be the case, cause at the moment he hasn't moved the needle enough for management. Furthermore, management might (not saying they have) have gone a little higher than they normally would for him because of his insanely good chemistry with Garland... We spent an eternity finding a position for Garland, and we finally did... Actually thought they were going to trade Garland if Joshua was off somewhere else.. PKs, hits, drops them, scores and is part of one of the best 3rd lines in hockey... why are you so upset about him? That 3rd line was one of the success stories last season.... Not his fault they didn't come to terms with big Zad... It's a tad pricey but he brings the elements we so dearly need and can't really replace without him. Let's hope he's ultra motivated to get to the next level. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spook007 Posted June 30 Share Posted June 30 27 minutes ago, Gawdzukes said: It's a tad pricey but he brings the elements we so dearly need and can't really replace without him. Let's hope he's ultra motivated to get to the next level. Exactly... He's shown great chemistry with Garland... He is exactly, what I hope to find for Petey... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bh90 Posted June 30 Share Posted June 30 3 hours ago, rmok said: I can't tell if this is sarcasm? Texier is 4 years younger, a center, has more NHL games and a better ppg than Joshua. Joshua's deal looks terrible both in term and $ in comparison. It's not sarcasm. Texier is a LW btw and not a very good player Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I.AM.THE.WALRUS Posted June 30 Share Posted June 30 5 hours ago, DrJockitch said: Wasn’t much more usefull to say about Joshua and yeah ‘90s Brit pop is one of my great loves so why not deflect that way. So many great bands that never really made it big over here. ‘Still trying to find a chance to see Suede. One of my all time favourites and still touring but I missed their last Toronto show with MSP. The 90’s had amazing music… last great decade for music before the internet destroyed the music industry 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I.AM.THE.WALRUS Posted June 30 Share Posted June 30 4 hours ago, Rekker said: Exactly, get over it fans. This decision is on Zads. The offer the Canucks made was more than fair. Apparently Big Z has a Big E (ego) - has and exaggerated view of his worth… too bad… we need his toughness Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrJockitch Posted June 30 Share Posted June 30 13 minutes ago, I.AM.THE.WALRUS said: The 90’s had amazing music… last great decade for music before the internet destroyed the music industry Every era has great music and the music industry of the 70s-90s was fucking predatory. Shit it always was. Now it is just more open and we know all the money goes to Bezos and Cook instead of the artists. While it is even harder for artists to make money it is also the easiest and cheapest it has ever been to make music. You can record competently on a budget laptop. Quality instruments are available for incredibly cheap and software makes it reasonable to really do stuff on your own. But I do miss the eras of truly guitar driven rock but we jumped the shark towards the end of the 90s, I am talking to you Collective Sole, Creed and Nickelback! That is why I find myself falling more back to punk music. It is inauthentic at this point and knows it so fuck you! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmok Posted June 30 Share Posted June 30 4 hours ago, Rekker said: So you are saying pay Zads whatever he wants for his stellar, short sample size showing, but don't pay Joshua for his short sample size showing? I want Zads here more than anything but he is not perfect defensively. It's why he has struggled to historically hold down a top four spot. Canucks went to 5 per season, or close to it. This is on Zads for wanting money over being here and he's entitled to that. Canucks are in desperate need of size an speed on the wings so losing Joshau would of hurt. It's a bit of a dice roll but considering the third line is intact for two more years, worth the risk. We also needed Zads physicality on the back end and management made a more than fair offer. Love the guy but it doesn't look like he really wanted to stay here enough after all. If I was saying "pay zads whatever he wants" I would say that. But I would rather have a top 4, biggest guy in the league defenseman for 5 million than a fringe NHLer for 4 years at over 3 million. Also nobody has any idea if the Canucks actually offered 5 nor do they know how many years were offered, which is actually the most important number because it defines the over all value of the contract.IE I could probably live with taking a gamble on Joshua at 3 for 2 years.. but giving him four... and at the expense of other players is just a bad move. Zads agent made it clear that term was more important than money... and then they turn around and give 4 years to a guy with absolutely no track record in the NHL . I take Zads on my team over Joshua everyday of the week. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
German Canuck Posted June 30 Share Posted June 30 5 minutes ago, rmok said: If I was saying "pay zads whatever he wants" I would say that. But I would rather have a top 4, biggest guy in the league defenseman for 5 million than a fringe NHLer for 4 years at over 3 million. Also nobody has any idea if the Canucks actually offered 5 nor do they know how many years were offered, which is actually the most important number because it defines the over all value of the contract.IE I could probably live with taking a gamble on Joshua at 3 for 2 years.. but giving him four... and at the expense of other players is just a bad move. Zads agent made it clear that term was more important than money... and then they turn around and give 4 years to a guy with absolutely no track record in the NHL . I take Zads on my team over Joshua everyday of the week. Zadorov is not a top 4 defensemen and not worth 5M or more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmok Posted June 30 Share Posted June 30 4 hours ago, spook007 said: why are you so upset about him? That 3rd line was one of the success stories last season.... Not his fault they didn't come to terms with big Zad... Because they badly overpaid to keep a guy with a couple months of NHL level play. I don't believe the success of that line was actually driven by him.. I believe he benefited from a legitimate top 6 player in Garland along with two underrated players in Suter and Blueg playing third line minutes. If they couldn't spare another 500k for the better more impactful player in the more important position because they overspent on a 3rd line winger.. then ya he/management are kind of at fault. There is zero reason why one of Karlson, Podz, Raty etc couldn't.. and honestly should have the opportunity for the third line wing position.. and at a lot less money. They are now also going to have to overpay Hoglander next year because of this crappy contract. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmok Posted June 30 Share Posted June 30 Just now, German Canuck said: Zadorov is not a top 4 defensemen and not worth 5M or more. You are wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmok Posted June 30 Share Posted June 30 1 hour ago, bh90 said: It's not sarcasm. Texier is a LW btw and not a very good player And yet his numbers are better than joshua's, he's younger and the team only had to commit 4 million to sign him.. rather than 13 million for the older, worse player. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
German Canuck Posted June 30 Share Posted June 30 (edited) 3 minutes ago, rmok said: You are wrong. Maybe but why he never played top 4 minutes? And was 6th in ice time of all canucks defenders? Edited June 30 by German Canuck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bh90 Posted June 30 Share Posted June 30 21 minutes ago, rmok said: And yet his numbers are better than joshua's, he's younger and the team only had to commit 4 million to sign him.. rather than 13 million for the older, worse player. Just because he has had more points doesn't make him better Thomas Vanek put up alot of points in his career yet that doesn't mean anything it's just points Kuzmenko put up a lot of points too more than Joshua last year but safe to say most people will agree that Joshua was the betted player This isn't fantasy hockey we are talking about here 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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