Quinn Hughes Wins Norris Trophy

[IBatch]

9 hours ago, Kevin Biestra said:

 

Hopefully not but we'll see.  There aren't a lot of repeat Norris winners and the ones who are...are mega legends.  Brad Park won zero, Al MacInnis and Scott Niedermayer...one.  Housley zero.  Larry Murphy zero.  Kevin Lowe...never even a finalist.  Blake and Pronger...one.  Guy Lapointe, zero.  Serge Savard, zero.

 

Good news is that a Norris almost gets you right into the HOF.  And barring disaster Hughes will have the career numbers to guarantee it.

 

 

 

 

Shea Weber zero.   Zubov zero.   This voting just goes to show how not all trophies are made equal.    And that getting one vote means little; likely a homer vote.    Wilson finally got his due not that long ago.    QHs probably gets in the HHOF just by finishing his current contract now.    For sure becoming a legend.    

 

Al Mac winning it a decade after winning his Conn Smythe, just goes to show how dominant an athlete he was, and how tough the competition was too.   Played the entire dead puck era.   And was killing it with Pronger (a year later I think Pronger won it and the Hart).   That was probably the best pairing all-time. 

Edited June 28 by IBatch

[IBatch]

11 hours ago, Kevin Biestra said:

 

Hopefully not but we'll see.  There aren't a lot of repeat Norris winners and the ones who are...are mega legends.  Brad Park won zero, Al MacInnis and Scott Niedermayer...one.  Housley zero.  Larry Murphy zero.  Kevin Lowe...never even a finalist.  Blake and Pronger...one.  Guy Lapointe, zero.  Serge Savard, zero.

 

Good news is that a Norris almost gets you right into the HOF.  And barring disaster Hughes will have the career numbers to guarantee it.

 

 

 

 

Scott Steven's never won it, and i'd make a case that he was the better defenseman (Niedermayer).    Actually to me he was and it wasn't even close.    The 2000's really took a nosedive in that department, centers too,  Niedermayer couldn't sniff a Norris until the old guard aged out (closest he came was 1998 getting a second all-star team nod, so 3-4 on a second pairing).  Doesn't take anything away from him, just goes to show how stiff the competition was.   Like it was for centers too.   Saving Sakic (show) touches on the golden era, guys from the 80's and the 90's together created something unique.   As did finally bringing in the best from Europe.    For awhile it supported expansion until it didn't. 

 

  Steven's said it was decided that they as a group, were going to sacrifice personal stats and focus on the defensive side of the game, he completely bought in and although just as if not more capable offensively, let Niedermayer be the rover because his physical gifts were just as good and just as important.    Here's a guy, deservedly voted as one of the 100 greatest players all-time, that saw no individual hardware.    Niedermayer did get some for sure though.   And just won at every stop. 

 

Edit:  They simply don't make them like Steven's and Ray Borque anymore.   Or Robinson/Pronger.   We've seen a re-surgence in PMD's, small ones.   Actually wouldn't even call it that, we've seen a new era with a new type of player in Makar and QHs.   Chelios was an anomaly, a "junkyard dog" as Robinson coined him.    Anyone battling Tony Twist and 5'11 must have a screw loose.   

 

On a personal note and try not to be an armchair coach,  not sure QHs and Hronek can make an impactful second season pairing.    Much like we did to Housley, we saw that done to us.   Both in the bubble and this years playoffs.     Would rather see Hronek on his own pairing if possible, and a Willie Mitchell type for QHs.   If we can manage that, could see QH's winning Conn Smythe trophies too.    To me, he's the first player since Bure, that's challenged for that level of special.  Unique. 

 

Edit:  Gen x and the late boomers had one heck of a meeting in the 90's.   Was great to watch.   Steven's and Lindros battles started a lot earlier than the infamous hit.   Steven's could do it all, and all of it at a high level.   Hit, fight, score, pass and defend.   For younger generations, google Manson versus Steven's.    And for shits any giggle's, watch Lindros highlights.   He took some hits, but dished them out just as good as anyone i've ever watched.  

Edited June 28 by IBatch

[Coconuts]

 

 

[high flying Vee]

Thats a small body gentlemen 

 

[Mr Wrong]

He is the best. So glad to have him. I hope he stays healthy, then this is only the beginning of a very very successful career!

[Ghostsof1915]

As long as a certain Edmonton player keeps his stick down around him.

And yes I'm still mad at that.

[Kevin Biestra]

8 hours ago, IBatch said:

Al Mac winning it a decade after winning his Conn Smythe, just goes to show how dominant an athlete he was, and how tough the competition was too.   Played the entire dead puck era.   And was killing it with Pronger (a year later I think Pronger won it and the Hart).   That was probably the best pairing all-time. 

 

Yeah could be.  Trying to think...  Coffey / Lidstrom.  Chelios / Suter.  Mark Howe / Brad McCrimmon.  Scott Stevens / Larry Murphy.  Coffey / Blake.

[IBatch]

17 minutes ago, Kevin Biestra said:

 

Yeah could be.  Trying to think...  Coffey / Lidstrom.  Chelios / Suter.  Mark Howe / Brad McCrimmon.  Scott Stevens / Larry Murphy.  Coffey / Blake.

Park and Bourque.  Park taught Borque how to refine his game but he was almost done.   Coffey Blake?  Maybe them.   Neidermayer Pronger also in ANA.   Pretty top rate. 

Edited June 28 by IBatch

[Rip The Mesh]

    

[IBatch]

8 minutes ago, Rip The Mesh said:

    

The best part about this, well the grandpa grinning and watching his little grandkids.   He's impressed with the little blond fury.  Bet these kids did this all the time and didn't get bullied in their lives. 

[Kevin Biestra]

7 hours ago, IBatch said:

Steven's said it was decided that they as a group, were going to sacrifice personal stats and focus on the defensive side of the game, he completely bought in and although just as if not more capable offensively, let Niedermayer be the rover because his physical gifts were just as good and just as important.    Here's a guy, deservedly voted as one of the 100 greatest players all-time, that saw no individual hardware.    Niedermayer did get some for sure though.   And just won at every stop.

 

Yeah Stevens in NJ and Yzerman playing defense for Scotty Bowman leave two of the big what ifs statistically.  Stevens maybe 1100 points, Yzerman...who knows...1950?

 

Those and injuries that ended HOF runs way too early.  Barry Pederson, Wayne Babych, Tim Kerr...

[IBatch]

3 minutes ago, Kevin Biestra said:

 

Yeah Stevens in NJ and Yzerman playing defense for Scotty Bowman leave two of the big what ifs statistically.  Stevens maybe 1100 points, Yzerman...who knows...1950?

 

Those and injuries that ended HOF runs way too early.  Barry Pederson, Wayne Babych, Tim Kerr...

A lot of guys lost 1.5 years to lockouts.   Except Jagr.   He lost 2.0   Or maybe if he stuck around.    80's guys lost half year in their primes and some retired instead of coming back.  It for sure screwed with a lot of stats.   Including Messier's.    And Linden's and Ronnings.

Edited June 28 by IBatch

[Kevin Biestra]

Just now, IBatch said:

A lot of guys lost 1.5 years to lockouts.   Except Jagr.   He lost 2.5.   Or maybe if he stuck around.  

 

Yeah and lockouts literally ended Brett Hull, Cliff Ronning, maybe Dave Andreychuk etc.

 

What if Guy Lafleur hadn't retired in 1984 or so and had played right through to his 1988 comeback.

[IBatch]

8 minutes ago, Kevin Biestra said:

 

Yeah and lockouts literally ended Brett Hull, Cliff Ronning, maybe Dave Andreychuk etc.

 

What if Guy Lafleur hadn't retired in 1984 or so and had played right through to his 1988 comeback.

Edited it a bit.  Yes Ronning and Linden both maybe have close to 1000 points which used to be a lock into the HHOF.   Jagr.  2000?

As for Guy Lafleur, maybe he has close to what Dionne had (actually no way, would have needed 4 100  point seasons or something and hadn't had a great one in four years).  

 

Then there are guys like Ron Francis.   Think Howe would have been passed by a few guys if circumstances were different.   Also think Bobby Hull would have well over 800 NHL goals too.   Sakic for sure could have challenged Howe, easily lost 150 points.  

Edited June 28 by IBatch

[IBatch]

58 minutes ago, Kevin Biestra said:

 

Yeah could be.  Trying to think...  Coffey / Lidstrom.  Chelios / Suter.  Mark Howe / Brad McCrimmon.  Scott Stevens / Larry Murphy.  Coffey / Blake.

I do remember that era pretty well.  And the love Al Mac and Pronger were getting as a pairing was very much hyped and rightly so.   They were fearsome.   What else did St. louis really have?   And playing close to 30 minutes a night often.   Pronger changed my mind about him then.  And his EDM year, could have retired then maybe and entered the HHOF.    I have yet to see as a dominant D have a playoff since, like (EDM), and that includes Makar, Lidstrom (and all the trophies) or whomever.   Guy was literally on the ice for half the game and stopped every single play.     Hedman and Alex P maybe have the size but man was Pronger good.   And mean as fuck.   Cross check you in the teeth.     One of the best defensive defence man ever.   

Edited June 28 by IBatch

[Kevin Biestra]

18 minutes ago, IBatch said:

Then there are guys like Ron Francis.   Think Howe would have been passed by a few guys if circumstances were different.   Also think Bobby Hull would have well over 800 NHL goals too.   Sakic for sure could have challenged Howe, easily lost 150 points.  

 

True that Howe might have been passed, but at the same time like Bobby Hull, he himself would have added a lot of NHL points in the "what if" scenario where thy either never went to the WHA or those points were included.  Over 500 WHA points for Gordie...can't see that being less than 300 bare minimum if he stayed in the NHL.

[Shekky]

47 minutes ago, Rip The Mesh said:

    

 

Their back and forth makes me laugh so hard they are so entertaining lol

[IBatch]

4 minutes ago, Kevin Biestra said:

 

True that Howe might have been passed, but at the same time like Bobby Hull, he himself would have added a lot of NHL points in the "what if" scenario where thy either never went to the WHA or those points were included.  Over 500 WHA points for Gordie...can't see that being less than 300 bare minimum if he stayed in the NHL.

You bet.   In the Ovi chase thread (Gretzky's goals), have pointed this out  too.    Even Gretzky at 17.   I wasn't thinking about that much.   Plus imagine if he didn't retire and then go to the WHA?

[Coconuts]

Poor Detroit

 

 

 

[Rip The Mesh]

 

[I.AM.THE.WALRUS]

Huggy Bear is the man…

 

well done 
 

‘The Mighty Quinn’

[HKSR]

How many Norris winners have not won a Cup from the period of 1970 to 2020 (50 years)... Seven (7).

 

Josi

Giordano

Burns

Karlsson

Subban

Carlyle

Wilson

 

Of those 7, I'd argue 3 of them only won purely because of their offensive output -- Burns, Karlsson, and Subban.  If those 3 played better defence, maybe their teams would have made it over the hump and been Cup winners too.

 

The odds are in Hughes favour (therefore Canucks favour).

[IBatch]

13 hours ago, HKSR said:

How many Norris winners have not won a Cup from the period of 1970 to 2020 (50 years)... Seven (7).

 

Josi

Giordano

Burns

Karlsson

Subban

Carlyle

Wilson

 

Of those 7, I'd argue 3 of them only won purely because of their offensive output -- Burns, Karlsson, and Subban.  If those 3 played better defence, maybe their teams would have made it over the hump and been Cup winners too.

 

The odds are in Hughes favour (therefore Canucks favour).

I don't know.  EK did a pretty awesome job mostly on his own, took PIT to OT in Game 7 to beat them.     There was a period of time before injuries (ankle, achilles tendon) mounted up,  EK was looked at as generational in the same way Crosby and Ovi were.   First Norris at 21, and if it wasn't for Cookes foot stomp, would have won another at 22.    Changed his progression.  Was killing it on both sides of the ice that season.    Didn't really get to see that again until he almost took his team to the final.   If they beat PIT, he would have won the Conn Smythe win or lose. 

 

Like QHs, the ice just tilted the other way.   And it wasn't like those teams were that great.   Stone and Zibanejad went on to have excellent careers,  only Stone was doing much when EK was around,  those teams had very little going for them outside of EK and Anderson (goalie) and Stone really though.   Mediocre would be a nice way to put it.    

 

Watched him a lot,  it was crazy what he could do with the puck on his stick.   Believe if he was a forward instead, he'd of had no problem challenging for the Art Ross instead of the Norris.   

 

Unfortunately for EK, aside from a couple seasons in his entire career, he's never been on good teams. 

 

Edited July 3 by IBatch

[nergish]

20 hours ago, IBatch said:

I don't know.  EK did a pretty awesome job mostly on his own, took PIT to OT in Game 7 to beat them.     There was a period of time before injuries (ankle, achilles tendon) mounted up,  EK was looked at as generational in the same way Crosby and Ovi were.   First Norris at 21, and if it wasn't for Cookes foot stomp, would have won another at 22.    Changed his progression.  Was killing it on both sides of the ice that season.    Didn't really get to see that again until he almost took his team to the final.   If they beat PIT, he would have won the Conn Smythe win or lose. 

 

Like QHs, the ice just tilted the other way.   And it wasn't like those teams were that great.   Stone and Zibanejad went on to have excellent careers,  only Stone was doing much when EK was around,  those teams had very little going for them outside of EK and Anderson (goalie) and Stone really though.   Mediocre would be a nice way to put it.    

 

Watched him a lot,  it was crazy what he could do with the puck on his stick.   Believe if he was a forward instead, he'd of had no problem challenging for the Art Ross instead of the Norris.   

 

Unfortunately for EK, aside from a couple seasons in his entire career, he's never been on good teams. 

 

I don’t think Quinn has yet reached peak EK, but he’s right there already. He will almost certainly be ranked higher on the all time list by the time his career is done.