Canadian Politics Thread

[stawns]

Just now, Elias Pettersson said:

A surplus allows the government to pay down debt. You know like when you pay down your mortgage and your credit cards. 
 

Are you implying that Canada should be indebted forever, never paying down its debt and simply accumulating more debt every year?  
 

You can collect money and put it back into the system while also paying down debt. When you are running a deficit, it means you are spending more money than you earn. This is how the average Canadian goes bankrupt. 
 

Also, as the debt grows you need to pay it back with interest. Interest rates have tripled in the last 2 years. So the government is now in a situation where it will need to raise taxes and collect more revenue simply to make their interest payments on the debt. 
 

A perpetual cycle that most certainly will lead us into a Great Recession…

National debt isn't like household debt

[Ryan Strome]

Just now, Elias Pettersson said:

A surplus allows the government to pay down debt. You know like when you pay down your mortgage and your credit cards. 
 

Are you implying that Canada should be indebted forever, never paying down its debt and simply accumulating more debt every year?  
 

You can collect money and put it back into the system while also paying down debt. When you are running a deficit, it means you are spending more money than you earn. This is how the average Canadian goes bankrupt. 
 

Also, as the debt grows you need to pay it back with interest. Interest rates have tripled in the last 2 years. So the government is now in a situation where it will need to raise taxes and collect more revenue simply to make their interest payments on the debt. 
 

A perpetual cycle that most certainly will lead us into a Great Recession…

The first part about paying down debt is the most important. How @stawns is not understanding this seems odd. Remember when Trudeau bragged about interest rates being at an all-time low? That's why he was borrowing so heavily. Yeah, so what about now? An interest rates are high and he won't tell Canadians how much they are paying to service all his debt.

[Ryan Strome]

1 minute ago, stawns said:

Thanks to the previous liberal govt, under Chretien, we didn't really feel much impact from 2008

If I remember correctly, you are a teacher? If that indeed is the case, of course you wouldn't have felt anything as you're paid through taxpayer dollars. Many businesses felt the effects but I would agree that JC did a good job financially for this country. 

[stawns]

2 minutes ago, Ryan Strome said:

If I remember correctly, you are a teacher? If that indeed is the case, of course you wouldn't have felt anything as you're paid through taxpayer dollars. Many businesses felt the effects but I would agree that JC did a good job financially for this country. 

I'm also a farmer

[Warhippy]

Just now, Ryan Strome said:

So I guess if Trudeau gets given a break because of the covid pandemic then Harper should get a break because of the global financial crisis?

 

That being said You aren't wrong mulroney run up a ton of debt and truthfully, up until Trudeau liberals were pretty good at running balance budgets and not spending like drunken sailors. In fact, the only liberal prime minister that run up massive debt was Trudeau's dad. My biggest issue is that Trudeau promised only a 10 billion deficit and in his first budget it was tripled. He will never run a balanced budget and his whole tenure and that's pretty terrible.

Ok this is where we'll butt heads.

 

Harper ran the financial crisis and then some Amazing boom years.  Oil at highs etc.  He only had one seeming surplus budget because he sold a number of things.  Strip that away he entire tenure and he never had a single balanced budget.

 

You know this is true.  We've had this discussion before and you even admitted that without selling the GM shares and wheat board etc his last budget would have looked a lot worse than the numbers indicated.

 

Trudeau spent to the hilt agreed.  I have issues with what and how.  The bulk of his spending though came without high oil prices at all with a combative US government under Trump and a renegotiated NAFTA agreement that messed some things up.

 

His COVID spending came down through an all party committee meaning all 4 major parties had a hand in how the money was spent.  While I think they pissed a lot away by throwing it at the problem because of expediency and necessity, I will not blame him at all alone for the spending from 2020 through early 2022 because all 4 major parties had a say in how much was spent and where it went.  This was all done with the senate green lighting it as a secondary voice.

 

All the facts need to be accounted for and we can't lump all of it at his feet alone.  There's more than that to it but we don't need to dredge up past history in posts.

 

Bottom line is he ain't great but he's also not the evil money wasting boogeyman some make him out to be because he did have significant external factors as well as help doing it.

 

Don't like hair boy, but what can ya do.

[Ryan Strome]

Just now, stawns said:

I'm also a farmer

See I knew deep down you were a good guy.

[Elias Pettersson]

15 minutes ago, Warhippy said:

From 2008-2022 people lived on artificially low interest ratings and credit.

 

Multiple trips per year, new vehicle leases.  Eating out all the time.  Skip the dishes.  New wardrobe once a season and of course online shopping.

 

Household debt is a reflection the consumer economy not the government.  

Who is responsible for the artificially low interest rates?  

[Ryan Strome]

1 minute ago, Warhippy said:

Ok this is where we'll butt heads.

 

Harper ran the financial crisis and then some Amazing boom years.  Oil at highs etc.  He only had one seeming surplus budget because he sold a number of things.  Strip that away he entire tenure and he never had a single balanced budget.

 

You know this is true.  We've had this discussion before and you even admitted that without selling the GM shares and wheat board etc his last budget would have looked a lot worse than the numbers indicated.

 

Trudeau spent to the hilt agreed.  I have issues with what and how.  The bulk of his spending though came without high oil prices at all with a combative US government under Trump and a renegotiated NAFTA agreement that messed some things up.

 

His COVID spending came down through an all party committee meaning all 4 major parties had a hand in how the money was spent.  While I think they pissed a lot away by throwing it at the problem because of expediency and necessity, I will not blame him at all alone for the spending from 2020 through early 2022 because all 4 major parties had a say in how much was spent and where it went.  This was all done with the senate green lighting it as a secondary voice.

 

All the facts need to be accounted for and we can't lump all of it at his feet alone.  There's more than that to it but we don't need to dredge up past history in posts.

 

Bottom line is he ain't great but he's also not the evil money wasting boogeyman some make him out to be because he did have significant external factors as well as help doing it.

 

Don't like hair boy, but what can ya do.

I mentioned his promise of a 10 billion deficit that he tripled and I don't think you even touched on that at all. It seems more like you took a chance to jump that conservatives and that's fine because I never defended Harper. I merely wondered if he should get the same luxury of making an excuse. There's an old saying in politics. When things are good everybody will jump at the podium to take credit for it when things aren't that great, even when it's not your own doing everybody just points fingers.

[Optimist Prime]

9 minutes ago, Ryan Strome said:

The first part about paying down debt is the most important. How @stawns is not understanding this seems odd. Remember when Trudeau bragged about interest rates being at an all-time low? That's why he was borrowing so heavily. Yeah, so what about now? An interest rates are high and he won't tell Canadians how much they are paying to service all his debt.

Looking further back than just 2008, interest rates are STILL very low. Selective memory is silly.

 

edit: although I will say household debters are mostly dumb to rack up debt while interest rates are low, because we all know from living in the 80's (well the older of us anyhow) that interest rates can and will climb to stupid levels from time to time.

 

[Ryan Strome]

1 minute ago, Optimist Prime said:

Looking further back than just 2008, interest rates are STILL very low. Selective memory is silly.

So this doesn't even have anything to do with what I said. Prime minister basically made fun of a reporter who asked them what happens when interest rates go up and now it's the prime minister and his party that won't tell Canadians how much it is to service all his debt. You can defend him all you want. It's clear that your purpose, but you should at least respond to what I'm saying.

[Warhippy]

12 minutes ago, Ryan Strome said:

Again, the government of the day has the ability to block an RCMP investigation. That isn't right. I also never suggested that he should be put in jail though I do like that idea.

The previous guys did it too sadly

 

But the RCMP still weighed in on both and decided there was not enough actual wrong doing of a criminal nature due to the laws or rules of parliamentary behavior and such that it would have gone nowhere

 

We deserve better

[Elias Pettersson]

11 minutes ago, stawns said:

Thanks to the previous liberal govt, under Chretien, we didn't really feel much impact from 2008

That’s because Chrétien was running surpluses not deficits…

[Optimist Prime]

Just now, Ryan Strome said:

So this doesn't even have anything to do with what I said. Prime minister basically made fun of a reporter who asked them what happens when interest rates go up and now it's the prime minister and his party that won't tell Canadians how much it is to service all his debt. You can defend him all you want. It's clear that your purpose, but you should at least respond to what I'm saying.

I should hey? Would you also like to craft my vetted answer for me? you seem to lean heavily towards control, I am guessing you support Pierre Poilievre, it is a common thread on that end of the pool. 

[Warhippy]

5 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:

Who is responsible for the artificially low interest rates?  

The BoC

 

You know this.

[Ryan Strome]

1 minute ago, Elias Pettersson said:

That’s because Chrétien was running surpluses not deficits…

Exactly well said it gave Canada a cushion. Going into the pandemic we had already accumulated like 100 billion in new debt.

[Ryan Strome]

1 minute ago, Optimist Prime said:

I should hey? Would you also like to craft my vetted answer for me? you seem to lean heavily towards control, I am guessing you support Pierre Poilievre, it is a common thread on that end of the pool. 

Great response. I'm going to end discussing anything with you. Cheers

[Warhippy]

4 minutes ago, Ryan Strome said:

I mentioned his promise of a 10 billion deficit that he tripled and I don't think you even touched on that at all. It seems more like you took a chance to jump that conservatives and that's fine because I never defended Harper. I merely wondered if he should get the same luxury of making an excuse. There's an old saying in politics. When things are good everybody will jump at the podium to take credit for it when things aren't that great, even when it's not your own doing everybody just points fingers.

You're splitting hairs.  You know why I didn't touch it 

 

Politicians lie.  Period.  The last honest one to any extent was Chretien

 

Any time I hear a politician talk about saving or spending money I know I'm being lied to

[Ryan Strome]

Just now, Warhippy said:

You're splitting hairs.  You know why I didn't touch it 

 

Politicians lie.  Period.  The last honest one to any extent was Chretien

 

Any time I hear a politician talk about saving or spending money I know I'm being lied to

We deserve better then don't we?

[Warhippy]

1 minute ago, Ryan Strome said:

We deserve better then don't we?

Yes.

 

If we a nation of 40 million can only find Trudeau and Angry Trudeau as our possible leaders we screwed up somewhere

 

Take a drama teacher snowboard instructor who hasn't really had to worry about paying bills or struggling in his life and make him our figurehead leader.  

 

The other option?

 

Take a guy with less actual work experience who has never had to worry about paying a bill in his adult life after over 20 years in office and has nothing in common with the average person who is simply just loud and angry and suggest he's somehow different or better and give him the job.

 

We deserve way better 

[Optimist Prime]

Interesting to note that the financial screeching from the right wing is ridiculous:

 

American Population(2021): 331,900,000

American Debt (current): 33 Trillion

American Deficit(current): 1.7Trillion

 

Canadian Population (2021): 38,250,000

Canadian Debt: 1.2 Trillion

Canadian Deficit: 41 Billion

-------------------------------------------

Ten times our population

30 times our Debt

40 times our Deficit

 

[Ryan Strome]

Just now, Warhippy said:

Yes.

 

If we a nation of 40 million can only find Trudeau and Angry Trudeau as our possible leaders we screwed up somewhere

 

Take a drama teacher snowboard instructor who hasn't really had to worry about paying bills or struggling in his life and make him our figurehead leader.  

 

The other option?

 

Take a guy with less actual work experience who has never had to worry about paying a bill in his adult life after over 20 years in office and has nothing in common with the average person who is simply just loud and angry and suggest he's somehow different or better and give him the job.

 

We deserve way better 

I think once Trudeau is gone we might see the liberal party move back to being a center party. The kind of traditional liberals they used to be not this far left extremist kind of woke movement. As for the conservatives, I mean quite honestly I like PP I have for some time that being said you are 100% correct. He's got like next to zero real life work experience. I do believe JS likely ruin the new Democrats because he basically jumped into bed with the liberals. He has gotten very little out of anything so why would NDPiers even vote NDP anymore? May as well just vote liberal and I wouldn't be surprised if that was Trudeau in the liberals plan all along. Or maybe we end up like Britain where Trudeau messes up the liberal party so bad that way become a two-party system with the far left on one side and the right wing on the other side being the conservatives and the NDP and we no longer have a viable liberal party. It's funny because always I find the best politicians never want to be in the leadership roles and in a lot of ways I can understand, but it just doesn't disservice to a lot of Canadians that we end up with trash all the time.

[Ryan Strome]

Hey everybody, we are better than the United States. Great argument to make lol

[Elias Pettersson]

6 minutes ago, Warhippy said:

The BoC

 

You know this.

The Bank of Canada is technically owned by the federal government. I know it’s supposed to be an independent body, but its decisions are based on government policy. 
 

For example, if the government prints trillions of dollars and ultimately causes inflation because of its monetary policies, then the BOC needs to step in and raise interest rates. Same thing goes in the opposite direction. If the federal government’s fiscal policies lead to a slowing down of the economy, then the BOC steps in and lowers interest rates. 
 

At the end of the day, the BOC makes policy decisions based on government actions. 

[Elias Pettersson]

11 minutes ago, Ryan Strome said:

Exactly well said it gave Canada a cushion. Going into the pandemic we had already accumulated like 100 billion in new debt.

I voted for Jean Chrétien. He did a fabulous job in running the budget. And it was because he had Paul Martin as his finance minister. Martin was one of the better finance ministers we’ve ever had. He also ran a surplus in his short stay as a PM. 
 

And exactly as you said, the surpluses during the Chrétien administration allowed us to weather the storm of the financial crisis of 2008 that Harper had to take over. 
 

Harper eventually was able to get us back into a surplus in 2014 before Trudeau took over. 
 

Interestingly enough, the only two Liberal PM’s of our time who actually ran deficits were the Trudeau boys. They definitely were related. Although I heard Mrs. Trudeau had an affair with some dude in South America. But that’s another conversation altogether. 

[Optimist Prime]

Interesting to note that the financial screeching from the right wing is ridiculous (US Debt is 30 times ours and US Deficit is 40 times our):

 

UK Population(2021): 67,330,000

UK Debt (current): 4.2 Trillion in Can. Dollars

UK Deficit(current): 227 billion in Can. Dollars

 

Canadian Population (2021): 38,250,000

Canadian Debt: 1.2 Trillion

Canadian Deficit: 41 Billion

-------------------------------------------

Double our population

3.5 times our Debt

5.5 times our Deficit

 

So the US, UK and Canada are almost half the G7 countries, I don't mind doing this for all the G7...you can see the trendline plain as day though: Canada's financial situation is the BEST of the G7