Canadian Politics Thread

[The Lock]

12 minutes ago, Ryan Strome said:

You just raised some interesting points. I guess I was sticking to kind of the debate discussion myself. I just see that they don't debate policy. They just shout over each other.

So while I wholeheartedly agree with everything you said, the bolded part kind of contradicts what you said in my opinion. Because that Bernier was totally different. After he lost he went completely psycho.

 

The far right wing generally has to shout over others because a lot of the time, they aren't using logic in their arguments. They can't just approach their oppositions without getting destroyed a lot of the time. Therefore, they tend to have to focus on grabbing the public's attention and hope they pick up people who will only listen to "ideas" that just "sound good to them" through their yelling.

 

Keep in mind with this, I'm talking the far right like the PPC. There's obviously a right wing that's more logical as well that does not need tinfoil hats (even if I still don't fully agree with everything they say).

Edited October 5, 2023 by The Lock

[Ryan Strome]

3 minutes ago, Optimist Prime said:

Shrug, some would consider that his confidential government paperwork being left at a Hells clubhouse was proof of him being 'psycho' while he was a minister in the Harper Government, but potatoe patatoe. I guess we can agree he is psycho and move on.

Yeah I'm just kind of wondering after considering what @The Lock has said if this wasn't just a I'll turn crazy and try to be like Trump to see if I can get votes acting like that. Like I wonder if this is actually him or if the quiet kind of never heard much of him was actually the true Bernier. But yes we can agree he's pretty much lost any credibility he ever had.

1 minute ago, The Lock said:

 

The far right wing generally has to shout over others because a lot of the time, they aren't using logic in their arguments. They can't just approach their oppositions without getting destroyed a lot of the time. Therefore, they tend to have to focus on grabbing the public's attention and hope they pick up people who will only listen to "ideas" that just "sound good to them" through their yelling.

 

Keep in mind with this, I'm talking the far right like the PPC. There's obviously a right wing that's more logical as well that does not need tinfoil hats (even if I still don't fully agree with everything they say).

Yeah you do make a really good point there. However, I would argue that it isn't only the far right that does it. I mean here in Alberta Notley constantly interrupts during debate. But then again, I don't know if you can really call the Alberta NDP left wing. I mean if they were in British Columbia you guys would probably call her party right wing lol

[The Lock]

Just now, Ryan Strome said:

Yeah I'm just kind of wondering after considering what @The Lock has said if this wasn't just a I'll turn crazy and try to be like Trump to see if I can get votes acting like that. Like I wonder if this is actually him or if the quiet kind of never heard much of him was actually the true Bernier. But yes we can agree he's pretty much lost any credibility he ever had.

Yeah you do make a really good point there. However, I would argue that it isn't only the far right that does it. I mean here in Alberta Notley constantly interrupts during debate. But then again, I don't know if you can really call the Alberta NDP left wing. I mean if they were in British Columbia you guys would probably call her party right wing lol

 

Well, I think what happens with that is, once you get one party doing the yelling, often times it can cause other parties to do the same if they're not careful. This then gradually creates an unwanted culture that creeps into our politics.

 

I don't know if we're quite to that point mind you, but I think it's important that we be mindful that it could happen.

[Ryan Strome]

1 minute ago, The Lock said:

 

Well, I think what happens with that is, once you get one party doing the yelling, often times it can cause other parties to do the same if they're not careful. This then gradually creates an unwanted culture that creeps into our politics.

 

I don't know if we're quite to that point mind you, but I think it's important that we be mindful that it could happen.

I actually do think we might be to that point. I guess the next federal election will be telling. It's funny you mention that though because I remember when Danielle Smith ran against Rachel Notley recently and there was times I thought Smith should have popped up and said something but she actually was more respectful during the debates than I suspected she would have been and it would appear voters rewarded her for that.

Edited October 5, 2023 by Ryan Strome

[The Lock]

Just now, Ryan Strome said:

I actually do think we might be to that point. I guess the next federal election will be telling. It's funny you mention that though because I remember when Danielle Smith ran against Rachel Notley recently and there was times. I thought Smith should have popped up and said something but she actually was more respectful during the debates than I suspected she would have been and it would appear voters rewarded her for that.

 

Yeah. Ironically enough, this is one of those things where I want to be wrong. lol

[Sharpshooter]

1 hour ago, Ryan Strome said:

While you aren't wrong, is Trump really to blame for it or was this a trend that's been happening for decades? I watched the United States debate on YouTube from 1960 with John Kennedy and the respect they showed for each other. They got up and talked and then went and sat back down while the other talked. So from then until now it has changed drastically. But even if we look pre-trump debates were constantly interrupted and mud slinging so I don't know if he's to blame, but he certainly probably is exacerbated it.

Trump isn’t to blame about what’s occurring in Canada. That, rightly said by you, started several decades ago. 
 

Karl Rove, American Heritage, etc, etc, all brought that ‘style’ to Canada and were funded in USD and got together with like minded folks. 
 

The seeds were planted awhile ago and have taken root. 
 

Like an invasive species. 

[Ryan Strome]

2 minutes ago, Sharpshooter said:

Trump isn’t to blame about what’s occurring in Canada. That, rightly said by you, started several decades ago. 
 

Karl Rove, American Heritage, etc, etc, all brought that ‘style’ to Canada and were funded in USD and got together with like minded folks. 
 

The seeds were planted awhile ago and have taken root. 
 

Like an invasive species. 

Oh man now you just gave me homework to do this evening.

[moosehead]

32 minutes ago, Rook said:

That’s maybe a bit of a broad statement.  As a son of an immigrant, having kids were 3 of the 4 sets of great-grandparents being immigrants I can say it was fairly seemless. 1 of those sets already spoke English while the others did not.  All came from cultures of euro/Scandinavian background.  Maybe these factors had a factor.  But I also have multiple other family from Asia, southwest Asia and they seemed to be ok as well so I’m not sure what to say.  The one common bond they all had was wanting to come here to be Canadian.  They brought their traditions as did my Dad, but they wanted to grow in the big melding pot that is North American society.  Would love to hear others takes on this.  What kind of support do you think will help moose?  

 

Not really my expertise.... but heh i can spitball.

 

AFFORDABLE  decent  rental housing

Language training in schools that have quality instructors

Employer grants  / tax incentives for hiring new immigrants 

Job / Vocational Training - that also utilizes JOB COOPS  and real on the job training 

Check on employers to ensure that these immigrants have safe work conditions / not abused by employers.

 

 

Just a few thoughts.  I think it must so difficult to move to a new country combined with culture / language issues.

I think so many future issues can be avoided if we can integrate them more effectively.   Just my thought.  You guys can carve me up now. LOL

 

Edited October 5, 2023 by moosehead

[Sharpshooter]

2 minutes ago, Ryan Strome said:

Oh man now you just gave me homework to do this evening.

Enjoy. 
 

Make sure you show your work. 

[Satchmo]

4 minutes ago, Ryan Strome said:

Oh man now you just gave me homework to do this evening.

Lookup Roy Cohn and Roger Stone as well.   

[Johngould21]

1 hour ago, Optimist Prime said:

The bit on Erdogan got me mentally off topic, but I am back while my air fryer makes supper. WHen i retired and came home to BC my buddy retired and went to his area of expertise: Turkey, to marry a sweetheart he met and dated while he was in the theater. I spent a lot of time in Syria in the late 90's and early 2000's, he spent his time in Turkey doing similar work. 

 

He has been arrested 7 times on various Canada Day's for flying the Canadian Flag on his balcony. Every time a neighbour reports him as being a terrorist calling for the unseating of Erdogan and every time he has to explain at the police station that no, he isn't a terrorist, he is just a Canadian who lives in Turkey and celebrates Canada's birthday by flying the flag...i tell him not to and he says but he should be allowed to and does it anyway: most years he is arrested and has to account for himself or face jail. 

 

He tells me that of the millions of protestors in the streets oppposing Erdogan in the last 5 or 7 years, sometimes millions at one time, the 'official' election results as told by Erdogan are that 97% of voters support him. Nonesense. he is an authoritarian dictator who is moving Turkey back towards a Muslim Theocracy. The funny thing is it isn't even that Erdogan is a devout muslim Haji, he is just capitalizing on his countries position physically in the world to try to play three different factions against each other to his bennefit. Not sure how this will end in Turkey, but he is in power similarly to how Putin is in power. Those who like him like him a lot and have a bunch of guns. 

We were on a Holland America cruise about a month ago. I thought I would like to take a tour in Istanbul as I’ve heard it’s a very beautiful and old City. The tour bus host was very, very bitter that Erdogan was the self proclaimed dictator of his Country. High unemployment, the lire is worth nothing, yet that thug rigged the vote to get set for life,  ala Putin, and that other moron south of the border that thought that would be a great idea for the USA. 

[moosehead]

6 minutes ago, Johngould21 said:

We were on a Holland America cruise about a month ago. I thought I would like to take a tour in Istanbul as I’ve heard it’s a very beautiful and old City. The tour bus host was very, very bitter that Erdogan was the self proclaimed dictator of his Country. High unemployment, the lire is worth nothing, yet that thug rigged the vote to get set for life,  ala Putin, and that other moron south of the border that thought that would be a great idea for the USA. 

 

Hitchhiked solo across Turkey in my early 20's many years ago .....   Beautiful country. Amazing people. 

Edited October 5, 2023 by moosehead

[Coconuts]

2 hours ago, Ryan Strome said:

I have voted for a libertarian candidate or some party with no chance in my riding since 2015 so I know all about voting for someone who will never make it. As for what you said I can respect your values and concerns. As far as your concerns go I can understand them but I don't think any party can be anti LGBTQ+ because imo Canadians wouldn't support that. I do feel like the media plays this card against the conservative party when in reality they have never done anything while in power federally to limit any rights to that community. I mean I live in Alberta and we have a government where people from other provinces, namely British Columbia attack the premier and call her some sort of barbaric crazy lunatic but the reality is she is done nothing to the hurt the LGBTQ community. In fact, she had somebody that won a significant victory north of Red deer who made disparaging comments about transgender community and she threw her out of the party. Made her sit as an independent I do believe. So sometimes it's just the media playing it up and creating division within this country in my opinion. For example, it was Trudeau that was against a woman's right to choose as he admitted he didn't support abortion yet I never heard the mainstream media in this country talk about it. I know there's going to be some that won't buy that excuse and think oh if it was true, the media would have talked about it and I know sometimes it's hard to explain to people that are more on the left that the media is very left leaning in this country, but it is in fact the case. But again, I appreciate you sharing those thoughts and concerns with me. Sounds like you put a lot of effort and thought into this.

 

There is quite a pushback, we saw it with the recent march, there were plenty of counter-protests. Now, I am not going to paint those who vote conservative with the same brush because homophobia and anti-trans rhetoric are not exclusive to any one political faction, but those sentiments certainly exist amongst the fringe right. This is part of why I believe a more center right party would be beneficial, at least a healthy one. What that would do is create more of a split amongst those who vote conservative, hopefully for the better. 

 

I don't think gay marriage is in any danger but while one has to take the culture war with a grain of salt it can't exactly be ignored either. The fact that there's been so much discussion of what's gone on in Nova Scotia speaks to that, some folks go out of their way to attack pronouns and the like as "woke" but pronouns and whatnot are important to the LGBTQ+ community. It boils down to being able to treat individuals with respect, I don't care what pronoun someone wants me to refer to them as, it's a simple courtesy that costs me absolutely nothing. I'm not keen on religion in general but much of my immediate family is religious, I am capable of honoring those differences. Mudslinging has been a thing in politics for a long time, it's not new, culture wars aren't new either, but it's worth paying attention to who is saying what when folks are in positions of influence and power. Politicians are not above saying this or that to score political points, even if it's marginalized communities who pay the price. For example, John Rustad. https://bc.ctvnews.ca/outrageous-b-c-premier-slams-conservative-leader-s-first-question-in-legislature-1.6587632

 

On one level it's the game of politics, but at the same time these politicians impact real human lives. If Trudeau is washy on abortion idk, I won't pretend to have paid close attention to that, but I suppose as long as he's not actively trying to interfere with folks ability to get an abortion it may not be the end of the world. 

 

I do think media has to be taken with a grain of salt, it does exacerbate division but politicians also play to the media on that front. On a macro level on has to question who owns x, and if who's catering to who via what media channels. It's a lot to ponder, even more to stay on top of. In the age of social media there's more of a battle than ever to influence what people consume and believe. But that's a rabbit hole, I'll simply say I wouldn't be surprised if the media in what's probably a center left leaning country also leans more left. 

 

It's interesting to think about, and I suppose I have to going forward. The person is political after all, give it another year or two and I'll have to navigate systems directly impacted by politics and policies. 

 

[Ryan Strome]

1 minute ago, moosehead said:

 

Hitchhiked solo across Turkey in my early 20's.   Beautiful country. Amazing people. 

Yeah I'm going to guess that was pre-Erdogan. The guy is a dictator! Nato should kick turkey out!

[moosehead]

2 minutes ago, Ryan Strome said:

Yeah I'm going to guess that was pre-Erdogan. The guy is a dictator! Nato should kick turkey out!

 

Yah over 20 years ago.  I felt very safe there actually.   I remember shop owners keeping stuff outside the shops at night.... don;t think street crime was common.....  I arrived from boat from   Rhodes in Greece....     I remember in the smaller towns/ villages .... kids running up to look at me.. LOL.....

Edited October 5, 2023 by moosehead

[Ryan Strome]

6 minutes ago, Coconuts said:

 

There is quite a pushback, we saw it with the recent march, there were plenty of counter-protests. Now, I am not going to paint those who vote conservative with the same brush because homophobia and anti-trans rhetoric are not exclusive to any one political faction, but those sentiments certainly exist amongst the fringe right. This is part of why I believe a more center right party would be beneficial, at least a healthy one. What that would do is create more of a split amongst those who vote conservative, hopefully for the better. 

 

I don't think gay marriage is in any danger but while one has to take the culture war with a grain of salt it can't exactly be ignored either. The fact that there's been so much discussion of what's gone on in Nova Scotia speaks to that, some folks go out of their way to attack pronouns and the like as "woke" but pronouns and whatnot are important to the LGBTQ+ community. It boils down to being able to treat individuals with respect, I don't care what pronoun someone wants me to refer to them as, it's a simple courtesy that costs me absolutely nothing. I'm not keen on religion in general but much of my immediate family is religious, I am capable of honoring those differences. Mudslinging has been a thing in politics for a long time, it's not new, culture wars aren't new either, but it's worth paying attention to who is saying what when folks are in positions of influence and power. Politicians are not above saying this or that to score political points, even if it's marginalized communities who pay the price. For example, John Rustad. https://bc.ctvnews.ca/outrageous-b-c-premier-slams-conservative-leader-s-first-question-in-legislature-1.6587632

 

On one level it's the game of politics, but at the same time these politicians impact real human lives. If Trudeau is washy on abortion idk, I won't pretend to have paid close attention to that, but I suppose as long as he's not actively trying to interfere with folks ability to get an abortion it may not be the end of the world. 

 

I do think media has to be taken with a grain of salt, it does exacerbate division but politicians also play to the media on that front. On a macro level on has to question who owns x, and if who's catering to who via what media channels. It's a lot to ponder, even more to stay on top of. In the age of social media there's more of a battle than ever to influence what people consume and believe. But that's a rabbit hole, I'll simply say I wouldn't be surprised if the media in what's probably a center left leaning country also leans more left. 

 

It's interesting to think about, and I suppose I have to going forward. The person is political after all, give it another year or two and I'll have to navigate systems directly impacted by politics and policies.

Great post.

3 minutes ago, moosehead said:

 

Yah over 20 years ago.  I felt very safe there actually.   I remember shop owners keeping stuff outside the shops at night.... don;t think street crime was common.....  I arrived from boat from   Rhodes in Greece....     I remember in the smaller towns/ villages .... kids running up to look at me.. LOL.....

Yeah years back my wife worked with a  woman from Turkey she was super friendly and always upbeat. That was like 2006 and I still remember how chipper she always was. She went crazy in the end though she moved to Vancouver..

[Sharpshooter]

15 minutes ago, moosehead said:

 

Yah over 20 years ago.  I felt very safe there actually.   I remember shop owners keeping stuff outside the shops at night.... don;t think street crime was common.....  I arrived from boat from   Rhodes in Greece....     I remember in the smaller towns/ villages .... kids running up to look at me.. LOL.....

Moosehead>Peter Pumpkin head. 
 

 

[moosehead]

Just now, Sharpshooter said:

Moosehead>Peter Pumpkin head. 
 

 

 

I do have a huge melon head actually..... 

[Sharpshooter]

Just now, moosehead said:

 

I do have a huge melon head actually..... 

 

I’d run, well saunter, up to see it. 

[stawns]

46 minutes ago, moosehead said:

 

I do have a huge melon head actually..... 

[aGENT]

4 hours ago, Ryan Strome said:

For example, it was Trudeau that was against a woman's right to choose as he admitted he didn't support abortion yet I never heard the mainstream media in this country talk about it. 

 

I'd love to see the quote and context for this since you keep bringing it up.

 

Was he actually against a woman's right to choose? Doesn't sound like anything I've heard him say on the topic.

 

Perhaps, like me, he's against abortion personally, but very much for a woman's right to choose.

[Ryan Strome]

4 minutes ago, aGENT said:

 

I'd love to see the quote and context for this since you keep bringing it up.

 

Was he actually against a woman's right to choose? Doesn't sound like anything I've heard him say on the topic.

 

Perhaps, like me, he's against abortion personally, but very much for a woman's right to choose.

Yeah I mean maybe I should have worded it the way you have. I actually at one time held that view you are mentioning but now I've come to think there is no distinction. You either support a woman's right to choose or you don't and that comes with everything it entails. But yeah, I do apologize if that caused you some confusion

Edit: I should know that through all my posting I attempted to make clear and I think I did that he had changed his views. I wasn't saying these were present day. But most Catholics aren't necessarily in support of a woman's right to choose

 

https://globalnews.ca/news/5990813/trudeau-says-hes-now-totally-pro-choice-personal-abortion-views-evolved/

Edited October 5, 2023 by Ryan Strome

[stawns]

35 minutes ago, aGENT said:

 

I'd love to see the quote and context for this since you keep bringing it up.

 

Was he actually against a woman's right to choose? Doesn't sound like anything I've heard him say on the topic.

 

Perhaps, like me, he's against abortion personally, but very much for a woman's right to choose.

This is what so many on the right don't get.  You don't have to be "for" abortion to be "for" a woman's right to choose.  You just have to accept and respect that what a person does with their body is none of your business and it isn't the governments business either.

[6of1_halfdozenofother]

41 minutes ago, stawns said:

  You just have to accept and respect that what a person does with their body is none of your business

 

Therein lies the rub.  The religious and the social conservatives (and the authoritarian left for that matter) want conformity.  Religion demand it by blackmailing one's soul, the politically motivated by enacting laws.  These people just can't keep their nose out of other peoples' business. 

[stawns]

6 minutes ago, 6of1_halfdozenofother said:

 

Therein lies the rub.  The religious and the social conservatives (and the authoritarian left for that matter) want conformity.  Religion demand it by blackmailing one's soul, the politically motivated by enacting laws.  These people just can't keep their nose out of other peoples' business. 

it always boggles my mind that these small government conservatives are actually the ones wanting the government to intervene in the things they don't like.

Edited October 5, 2023 by stawns