Canadian Politics Thread

[RupertKBD]

1 hour ago, bishopshodan said:

 

I want them to be 'No little PP!' flags.

 

Who wants a little PP?

 

 

Conservative voters.....

[moosehead]

2 minutes ago, RupertKBD said:

 

Conservative voters.....

 

F Trudeau stickers are just so disrespectful to our canadian democracy.

 

 

[King Heffy]

16 minutes ago, moosehead said:

 

F Trudeau stickers are just so disrespectful to our canadian democracy.

 

 

Also a little confusing because the losers flying them also are generally homophobic but they want to have gay sex with Trudeau?  Sad, strange group of idiots.

Edited November 2, 2023 by King Heffy

[5forFighting]

3 hours ago, RupertKBD said:

 

Once again, you are conflating voting illegally with rigging the vote.. They are not the same thing.

It's all the same to me. Whether you ballot stuff or pay to influence elections, it's the same. 

[5forFighting]

Sounds like NDP is going to vote with conservatives on ending carbon tax on all heating fuels across the country. 

 

Oof

[Bob Long]

17 minutes ago, 5forFighting said:

Sounds like NDP is going to vote with conservatives on ending carbon tax on all heating fuels across the country. 

 

Oof

 

Link? 

1 hour ago, King Heffy said:

Also a little confusing because the losers flying them also are generally homophobic but they want to have gay sex with Trudeau?  Sad, strange group of idiots.

 

They dream of JT in yoga pants.

[5forFighting]

12 hours ago, Bob Long said:

 

Link? 

 

They dream of JT in yoga pants.

Some may get mad it's CBC but:

 

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/ndp-support-conservative-motion-carbon-tax-1.7016776

[Bob Long]

35 minutes ago, 5forFighting said:

Some may get mad it's CBC but:

 

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/ndp-support-conservative-motion-carbon-tax-1.7016776

 

Ah thx, it's a non binding motion but still embarassing for JT. They seem to be in panic mode.

 

 

[Warhippy]

17 hours ago, 5forFighting said:

Sounds like NDP is going to vote with conservatives on ending carbon tax on all heating fuels across the country. 

 

Oof

That's a good thing.

 

Why is this bad?  

[Bob Long]

12 minutes ago, Warhippy said:

That's a good thing.

 

Why is this bad?  

 

Is it good? I don't know. Oil tanks are everywhere in the maritimes and it would be good to get rid of them.

[Warhippy]

21 minutes ago, Bob Long said:

 

Is it good? I don't know. Oil tanks are everywhere in the maritimes and it would be good to get rid of them.

A lot of people have never been through a maritime winter or understand just how many homes are still on heating oil.  Having a truck with what appears to be a septic tank/storage tank pull up to your house to open a window to fill a giant cistern in your basement for about $3500-$4000 for the autumn/winter months BEFORE tax with the current prices.  When we weigh that against our meagre $200-$300 a month through the winter heating costs for LNG or electrical we realize how insanely bent over anyone from the maritimes is.

 

We won't receive the same savings from a carbon tax repeal for heating our homes.  My concern with the repealing of the tax for heating oil in the maritimes is, is it only at the point of purchase?  or is it also at the point of wholesale too?  If both, who is ensuring that distributors are not gouging consumers by keeping that additional price on to pad their pockets like happened in BC post HST?

 

 

That being said.  The literal basics of human comfort and life should not be taxed the way they are.  It's already exorbitant to even live in BC without having to pay the additional costs on heating.  This though is a provincial carbon tax and not federal, but the wholesale distribution point IS in fact taxed federally and if I recall provincially so we actually get dinged twice which is insane 

 

But.  The carbon tax is really not even a huge amount of my yearly tax issues so I don't gripe as much as some because it really doesn't affect me much at all.  Not nearly as much as corporate greed or price gouging does

[Bob Long]

5 minutes ago, Warhippy said:

A lot of people have never been through a maritime winter or understand just how many homes are still on heating oil.  Having a truck with what appears to be a septic tank/storage tank pull up to your house to open a window to fill a giant cistern in your basement for about $3500-$4000 for the autumn/winter months BEFORE tax with the current prices.  When we weigh that against our meagre $200-$300 a month through the winter heating costs for LNG or electrical we realize how insanely bent over anyone from the maritimes is.

 

We won't receive the same savings from a carbon tax repeal for heating our homes.  My concern with the repealing of the tax for heating oil in the maritimes is, is it only at the point of purchase?  or is it also at the point of wholesale too?  If both, who is ensuring that distributors are not gouging consumers by keeping that additional price on to pad their pockets like happened in BC post HST?

 

my experience of living in Halifax tells me that whoever can gouge, will gouge 

 

5 minutes ago, Warhippy said:

 

That being said.  The literal basics of human comfort and life should not be taxed the way they are.  It's already exorbitant to even live in BC without having to pay the additional costs on heating.  This though is a provincial carbon tax and not federal, but the wholesale distribution point IS in fact taxed federally and if I recall provincially so we actually get dinged twice which is insane 

 

But.  The carbon tax is really not even a huge amount of my yearly tax issues so I don't gripe as much as some because it really doesn't affect me much at all.  Not nearly as much as corporate greed or price gouging does

 

it just seems like an odd panic move to me. And weirdly divisive. It could also be that they know they are done next election and want to hang on to as much of their base as possible.

 

Next up might be a huge gift to Quebec.

 

 

 

[RupertKBD]

Not that I'm taking one side or another, but I thought it might help if we had some numbers to go by....

 

The carbon tax on a full tank of heating oil is not insignificant. The price is 0.1738 per litre, no matter what the actual cost of the oil is. Based on a 900 litre tank (which Google tells me is the average size) someone filling their tank completely will pay just over $156, over and above the cost of the oil.

 

That's a significant amount, especially for a low income household.

 

That being said, the Carbon tax rate is commensurate with the degree of emissions produced by the respective fuel type, and heating oil ranks high on the scale. Earlier ITT we were discussing "fairness". It seems to me that higher rate for the higher emissions, is about as fair as it gets.

 

To add further perspective, even though $156 isn't a pittance, it's worth noting that someone in Nova Scotia (it seems like a lot of the folks still using heating oil are back east) will pay $1,620 to fill their tank. Someone in BC will spend about $1,900. The point being, if you're able to pay that amount of money, an extra $156 doesn't really seem like all that much of a burden.

 

This isn't to say that I'm against giving people a break, but the fact is, we've been kicking this can down to road for a lot of years and if the prospect of an extra $150 per year is enough to convince some people to switch to electric, then it's doing what it was intended to do. The only complaint I would have about it is that there isn't a directive that says all monies collected through the CT go directly to fund clean energy initiatives.

 

 

[Boudrias]

22 minutes ago, RupertKBD said:

Not that I'm taking one side or another, but I thought it might help if we had some numbers to go by....

 

The carbon tax on a full tank of heating oil is not insignificant. The price is 0.1738 per litre, no matter what the actual cost of the oil is. Based on a 900 litre tank (which Google tells me is the average size) someone filling their tank completely will pay just over $156, over and above the cost of the oil.

 

That's a significant amount, especially for a low income household.

 

That being said, the Carbon tax rate is commensurate with the degree of emissions produced by the respective fuel type, and heating oil ranks high on the scale. Earlier ITT we were discussing "fairness". It seems to me that higher rate for the higher emissions, is about as fair as it gets.

 

To add further perspective, even though $156 isn't a pittance, it's worth noting that someone in Nova Scotia (it seems like a lot of the folks still using heating oil are back east) will pay $1,620 to fill their tank. Someone in BC will spend about $1,900. The point being, if you're able to pay that amount of money, an extra $156 doesn't really seem like all that much of a burden.

 

This isn't to say that I'm against giving people a break, but the fact is, we've been kicking this can down to road for a lot of years and if the prospect of an extra $150 per year is enough to convince some people to switch to electric, then it's doing what it was intended to do. The only complaint I would have about it is that there isn't a directive that says all monies collected through the CT go directly to fund clean energy initiatives.

 

 

The size of the tank isn't as important as the number of times that tank has to be filled. I was in the business for many years. A 900 litre tank is above ground and a 1100 litre was more common. Underground tanks were mostly 1350 litres. A normal house with decent insulation would use around 2500 to 3000 litres. Also think about how many of these folks are using oil hot water tanks. If they are it is probably costing them $100 per month X 12 months. Easier to switch to electric hot water. Another consideration is whether the houses have duct work or not. If on oil they probably do but not all will. So I think your carbon tax estimate is on the light side. 

 

What is the cost of electricity? What is the back up heat for these heat pumps? If electric then an electric furnace is also required as heat pumps don't work well at temps below - 5 C. 

[RupertKBD]

21 minutes ago, Boudrias said:

The size of the tank isn't as important as the number of times that tank has to be filled. I was in the business for many years. A 900 litre tank is above ground and a 1100 litre was more common. Underground tanks were mostly 1350 litres. A normal house with decent insulation would use around 2500 to 3000 litres. Also think about how many of these folks are using oil hot water tanks. If they are it is probably costing them $100 per month X 12 months. Easier to switch to electric hot water. Another consideration is whether the houses have duct work or not. If on oil they probably do but not all will. So I think your carbon tax estimate is on the light side. 

 

What is the cost of electricity? What is the back up heat for these heat pumps? If electric then an electric furnace is also required as heat pumps don't work well at temps below - 5 C. 

 

I went with the number that google told me was the average size, however I don't really think it changes my point. If the amount of the CT is higher, then so is the amount for filling the tank. To my way of thinking, that's even more incentive to switch.

 

This is what I mean when I mention "kicking the can down the road".....despite the government giving us reasons for switching to cleaner sources of energy (such as rebates and tax incentives) people always seem to have reasons why it can't be done.

 

As an example, several years ago I took advantage of a rebate program to switch out all of my aluminum windows for vinyl. At the same time I upgraded the insulation and caulking in my house. A government approved appraiser did a before and after negative air test and gave me a "score" (somewhere around 75%, IIRC) The amount of my rebate was based on this number. All in all, we spent around 6 grand and after federal and provincial rebates, got about $2500 back.

 

At the time, we were not making a lot of money, but it has long since paid for itself.

 

People just have to decided that they're going to do it.

Edited November 3, 2023 by RupertKBD

[aGENT]

If the figures in this thread are accurate....$1500-$2000 x 2-3 fills per year (or more if HW is on oil as well)....WTF are people waiting for to switch to more efficient heating methods? That's a LOT of money every year to spend on fuel...I can't imagine the break even would even take that long. Especially after you factor in some likely government rebates etc.

[The Arrogant Worms]

Pierre Poilievre axes the tax with... Pierre Poilievre?!

 

 

[The Arrogant Worms]

On 11/2/2023 at 12:00 PM, Warhippy said:

I really have zero clue what point they're trying to make.

first nations bands were among some of the first to receive vaccines yes.  They were not guinea pigs though.  They were given them due to the isolation of and lack of major medical centres for them as well as the close knit nature of our bands.

 

Whatever narrative or suggestion that person is pushing should be spoken very very clearly because it is obvious they are trying to use a minority and marginalized group in society to justify some sort of disgusting opinion or suggestion of government malfeasance or to promote the idea of "libz r bad" but doesn't have the actual stones to just outright say it

 

 

All of his posts reek of racism.

 

My wife's Grandmother was full blooded Native Canadian.  Red Rock tribe in Ontario.  I have heard some horror stories.

 

My wife and my son were both able to get their status cards.

 

If he ever said those things things to my face it would not go well for him.

Edited November 3, 2023 by The Arrogant Worms

[Warhippy]

3 minutes ago, The Arrogant Worms said:

 

 

All of his posts reek of racism.

 

My wife's Grandmother was full blooded Native Canadian.  Red Rock tribe in Ontario.  I have heard some horror stories.

 

My wife and my son were both able to get their status cards.

 

If he ever said those things things to my face it would not go well for him.

There's a clear agenda and statement they are trying to make without having the stones to just outright say it,

[Warhippy]

1 hour ago, aGENT said:

If the figures in this thread are accurate....$1500-$2000 x 2-3 fills per year (or more if HW is on oil as well)....WTF are people waiting for to switch to more efficient heating methods? That's a LOT of money every year to spend on fuel...I can't imagine the break even would even take that long. Especially after you factor in some likely government rebates etc.

That's about accurate.

 

the issue is, to remove gas oil heating from your home is a HUGE undertaking.  Your duct work and base have to be removed and replaced.  Moving a tank that size from your home means blowing out walls and as half are found either attached to a house or in the basement.  You have to remove them, remodel for it then install and work with a heat pump or gas furnace exchange unit.  These can run in to the tens of thousands or more IF everything goes well and you have a smaller unit in your house that has not contaminated your ground or can be hauled up a stair well

 

How much does it cost to switch from oil to natural gas?

However, to give you a ballpark figure, many homeowners may expect to pay anywhere from $6,000 – $15,000 to switch from an oil to a gas-fired heating system. The good news is, after the initial costs of installing the new system have been paid, you will immediately begin saving on fuel costs.

[The Arrogant Worms]

37 minutes ago, Warhippy said:

That's about accurate.

 

the issue is, to remove gas oil heating from your home is a HUGE undertaking.  Your duct work and base have to be removed and replaced.  Moving a tank that size from your home means blowing out walls and as half are found either attached to a house or in the basement.  You have to remove them, remodel for it then install and work with a heat pump or gas furnace exchange unit.  These can run in to the tens of thousands or more IF everything goes well and you have a smaller unit in your house that has not contaminated your ground or can be hauled up a stair well

 

How much does it cost to switch from oil to natural gas?

However, to give you a ballpark figure, many homeowners may expect to pay anywhere from $6,000 – $15,000 to switch from an oil to a gas-fired heating system. The good news is, after the initial costs of installing the new system have been paid, you will immediately begin saving on fuel costs.

We replaced our oil furnace probably 15 years ago and switched to natural gas.  Never had to replace any duct work.  I don't think many oil tanks are in the house....none I know of anyway.

 

15 years ago we were paying at least $500 a month in the winter.  Switching cut that to about $75 a month.  With rebates it isnt too too bad to switch and worth it in the long run.

 

In May we this year we had a cooling coil attached to the gas furnace and now have air conditioning in the summer and still use gas in the winter.

It wasn't cheap...about $10,000 but wow it was sure worth it as our house used to get almost to 90 in a heat dome in the summer.

Edited November 3, 2023 by The Arrogant Worms

[Boudrias]

1 hour ago, aGENT said:

If the figures in this thread are accurate....$1500-$2000 x 2-3 fills per year (or more if HW is on oil as well)....WTF are people waiting for to switch to more efficient heating methods? That's a LOT of money every year to spend on fuel...I can't imagine the break even would even take that long. Especially after you factor in some likely government rebates etc.

I don't know the cost of fuel oil anymore. My questimate was on houses of 1000 to 1200 sq ft. By the time I left the business the amount of furnace oil I was selling had dropped by 2/3's. Many people who switched went to natural gas and that wasn't available to many. Many people burnt wood and used oil as a backup. This was before heat pumps. I had very good numbers on my heating costs. When I switched from Fortis electric forced air to a heat pump my savings was 43%. 

 

Another caveat in this equation is the life span of a heat pump over a oil furnace. Oil furnaces run forever without a lot of maintenance. Working on a oil furnace is pretty straight forward versus a heat pump, for me anyway. Heat pumps are rated to last 10 - 12 years. A service tech I know told me that if there was anyway to fix older equipment to do it. He said the new stuff was simply not standing up.  

[5forFighting]

4 hours ago, Warhippy said:

That's a good thing.

 

Why is this bad?  

It's great, unless you are a liberal who is trying to get re-elected in the next 2 years. 

 

That's the oof. 

[5forFighting]

4 hours ago, Bob Long said:

 

Is it good? I don't know. Oil tanks are everywhere in the maritimes and it would be good to get rid of them.

Why get rid of oil tanks? Rural areas that use them typically do not have access to natural gas and electricity can be through the roof and unreliable. 

 

[Bob Long]

1 minute ago, 5forFighting said:

Why get rid of oil tanks? Rural areas that use them typically do not have access to natural gas and electricity can be through the roof and unreliable. 

 

 

Long term cost and pollution.