Elias Pettersson Posted November 23, 2023 Share Posted November 23, 2023 3 minutes ago, RupertKBD said: I do. It's usually because they're born into money.... Some people are definitely born into money. Most of the rich people I know are self made millionaires. These self made millionaires sacrificed their youth by saving their money and investing in real estate. The people I know who don’t have money are the ones that partied all the time and spent every dollar they earned. Getting rich is a mindset. Being poor is also a mindset… Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RupertKBD Posted November 23, 2023 Share Posted November 23, 2023 2 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said: Some people are definitely born into money. Most of the rich people I know are self made millionaires. These self made millionaires sacrificed their youth by saving their money and investing in real estate. The people I know who don’t have money are the ones that partied all the time and spent every dollar they earned. Getting rich is a mindset. Being poor is also a mindset… Bullshit. The single Mom working two jobs to make ends meet isn't doing so because of a "mindset". Ditto, the so-called "self-made" millionaire, who made his money after his parents put him through an Ivy league school.... According to data: 27% of the ultra wealthy are self made: It defines them as people with a "middle-class or poor upbringing and no inheritance." 46% have a head start: Almost half the super rich people surveyed either had some inherited wealth or an affluent upbringing. 28% have legacy wealth: People with both an affluent background and inherited money. https://www.fool.com/the-ascent/personal-finance/articles/study-shows-only-27-of-wealthy-americans-are-self-made/ 1 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elias Pettersson Posted November 23, 2023 Share Posted November 23, 2023 4 minutes ago, RupertKBD said: I just want to make sure I'm clear on what you're saying here.... You're saying that instead of taxing the ultra rich, the government should levy an extra tax on people who are already paying a mortgage and property taxes? A capital gains tax on a principal residence can be tiered, similar to how our personal taxes are collected. The tax is only assessed on the “gain” on the property, so if you have a mortgage there won’t be much of a gain to tax. Obviously, the ultra rich who are selling their $10 million homes will be paying much more in this capital gains tax than the average Joe with a mortgage. Another option is to start the capital gains tax at a certain threshold, say $1 million in equity. That would eliminate most average Joe’s from having to pay any of the tax as most average Joe’s don’t have $1 million in equity in their homes… Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RupertKBD Posted November 23, 2023 Share Posted November 23, 2023 Just now, Elias Pettersson said: A capital gains tax on a principal residence can be tiered, similar to how our personal taxes are collected. The tax is only assessed on the “gain” on the property, so if you have a mortgage there won’t be much of a gain to tax. Obviously, the ultra rich who are selling their $10 million homes will be paying much more in this capital gains tax than the average Joe with a mortgage. Another option is to start the capital gains tax at a certain threshold, say $1 million in equity. That would eliminate most average Joe’s from having to pay any of the tax as most average Joe’s don’t have $1 million in equity in their homes… Most homeowners are paying a mortgage. If there isn't "much of a gain to tax", how does it make all this money you're talking about? I don't know about most people, but I'm already paying what I can afford on my home. Another tax on my home to save money for some rich fuck who doesn't want to pay his fair share is not what I'd call fair and I'd bet that mortgage that any politician who proposed it would lose in a landslide. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super19 Posted November 23, 2023 Share Posted November 23, 2023 12 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said: Some people are definitely born into money. Most of the rich people I know are self made millionaires. These self made millionaires sacrificed their youth by saving their money and investing in real estate. The people I know who don’t have money are the ones that partied all the time and spent every dollar they earned. Getting rich is a mindset. Being poor is also a mindset… Everyone I know that invested in real estate in the last 5 years are underwater or struggling. These are guys that save every penny as well. Saving a couple hundred bucks every week for years isn't gonna get you rich as you think. Time is money as well, most would rather just spend what they have and enjoy. Getting wealthy ain't easy. Takes lots of time, or generations to accumulate that kinda money from saving and investing some from your hard earned paycheques. Business opportunities aren't that great here in Canada either. Going through school and being a professional can have you living well off than most. Or you get gotta a little lucky with a business or perhaps with investing money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Long Posted November 23, 2023 Share Posted November 23, 2023 9 minutes ago, RupertKBD said: Most homeowners are paying a mortgage. If there isn't "much of a gain to tax", how does it make all this money you're talking about? I don't know about most people, but I'm already paying what I can afford on my home. Another tax on my home to save money for some rich fuck who doesn't want to pay his fair share is not what I'd call fair and I'd bet that mortgage that any politician who proposed it would lose in a landslide. Who decides what fair share is? You? Successful people in Canada pay a lot of taxes. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RupertKBD Posted November 23, 2023 Share Posted November 23, 2023 1 minute ago, Bob Long said: Who decides what fair share is? You? Successful people in Canada pay a lot of taxes. The CRA. What I'm against is an additional tax on home ownership, in order to ease the "burden" on those poor rich folks..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elias Pettersson Posted November 23, 2023 Share Posted November 23, 2023 1 minute ago, RupertKBD said: Most homeowners are paying a mortgage. If there isn't "much of a gain to tax", how does it make all this money you're talking about? I don't know about most people, but I'm already paying what I can afford on my home. Another tax on my home to save money for some rich fuck who doesn't want to pay his fair share is not what I'd call fair and I'd bet that mortgage that any politician who proposed it would lose in a landslide. There are lots of homes out there that have been bought from many years ago that have a capital gain. According to stats canada, there were over 500,000 homes that sold in 2022 alone. https://www.statista.com/statistics/588458/house-sales-canada/ Out of those 500,000 homes, at least 70% are principal residence. Most people buying and selling right now are not investors. So, that’s leaves 350,000 principal residence homes that sold. If you take an average of $100,000 in capitals gains on each of those homes which is very conservative then that is $35 billion in new revenue to the government. The capital gains tax is only taken when you sell your home. If you don’t sell it you don’t pay the tax. Also, you seem to be triggered by rich people. Why is a rich person some “rich fuck”? I know lots of rich people who are the nicest people in the world who all pay their fair share of taxes. They pay their taxes according to the laws that are set by the government. So if you have a problem with rich people paying their fair share of taxes then you should contact the finance minister, Chrystia Freeland, and ask her why the government has so many loopholes for the rich to use in their calculation of taxes payable… Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super19 Posted November 23, 2023 Share Posted November 23, 2023 1 minute ago, Bob Long said: Who decides what fair share is? You? Successful people in Canada pay a lot of taxes. And these are usually the people that did come from humble beginnings, worked hard and were smart with their money. These F U generational money wealthy types always find the loopholes for taxes. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RupertKBD Posted November 23, 2023 Share Posted November 23, 2023 1 minute ago, Elias Pettersson said: There are lots of homes out there that have been bought from many years ago that have a capital gain. According to stats canada, there were over 500,000 homes that sold in 2022 alone. https://www.statista.com/statistics/588458/house-sales-canada/ Out of those 500,000 homes, at least 70% are principal residence. Most people buying and selling right now are not investors. So, that’s leaves 350,000 principal residence homes that sold. If you take an average of $100,000 in capitals gains on each of those homes which is very conservative then that is $35 billion in new revenue to the government. The capital gains tax is only taken when you sell your home. If you don’t sell it you don’t pay the tax. Also, you seem to be triggered by rich people. Why is a rich person some “rich fuck”? I know lots of rich people who are the nicest people in the world who all pay their fair share of taxes. They pay their taxes according to the laws that are set by the government. So if you have a problem with rich people paying their fair share of taxes then you should contact the finance minister, Chrystia Freeland, and ask her why the government has so many loopholes for the rich to use in their calculation of taxes payable… I'm triggered by someone who thinks I should pay an extra tax on my home, over what I'm already paying. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Long Posted November 23, 2023 Share Posted November 23, 2023 (edited) 7 minutes ago, RupertKBD said: The CRA. What I'm against is an additional tax on home ownership, in order to ease the "burden" on those poor rich folks..... 6 minutes ago, Super19 said: And these are usually the people that did come from humble beginnings, worked hard and were smart with their money. These F U generational money wealthy types always find the loopholes for taxes. There's no such thing as a loophole. There's tax law. Imo complaining about the 1% let's our government off the hook for running programs badly. Edited November 23, 2023 by Bob Long 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elias Pettersson Posted November 23, 2023 Share Posted November 23, 2023 20 minutes ago, RupertKBD said: Bullshit. The single Mom working two jobs to make ends meet isn't doing so because of a "mindset". Ditto, the so-called "self-made" millionaire, who made his money after his parents put him through an Ivy league school.... According to data: 27% of the ultra wealthy are self made: It defines them as people with a "middle-class or poor upbringing and no inheritance." 46% have a head start: Almost half the super rich people surveyed either had some inherited wealth or an affluent upbringing. 28% have legacy wealth: People with both an affluent background and inherited money. https://www.fool.com/the-ascent/personal-finance/articles/study-shows-only-27-of-wealthy-americans-are-self-made/ That study is based on 1,000 individuals who are ultra rich. Most people aren’t “ultra” rich. They are well off and may not need to work any longer. However, they are not buying yachts and waterfront property in Florida. You may not believe this, but the single mom does have a mindset when it comes to money. I know many single moms who are making well over $300,000 per year and are mortgage free. So you shouldn’t be lumping them all together. Lots of single moms run their own businesses and are more successful than even a top lawyer or accountant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RupertKBD Posted November 23, 2023 Share Posted November 23, 2023 (edited) 36 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said: That study is based on 1,000 individuals who are ultra rich. Most people aren’t “ultra” rich. They are well off and may not need to work any longer. However, they are not buying yachts and waterfront property in Florida. You may not believe this, but the single mom does have a mindset when it comes to money. I know many single moms who are making well over $300,000 per year and are mortgage free. So you shouldn’t be lumping them all together. Lots of single moms run their own businesses and are more successful than even a top lawyer or accountant. Says the guy who claims that being poor is a mindset.... BTW: I'm not triggered by rich fucks per se....just the ones who believe that people are poor by choice.... Edited November 23, 2023 by RupertKBD 1 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UnkNuk Posted November 23, 2023 Share Posted November 23, 2023 48 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said: If Canadians have been “living beyond their means”, then why should the rich people bail them out? My point was that perhaps Canadians haven't been living beyond their means. Perhaps the government's deficit/debt problems are due to insufficient taxation on the very rich. 50 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said: In terms of the rich paying their fair share of taxes, it is the government that creates all the tax loopholes that allows the rich people to set up corporations and pay lower corporate taxes than the average Joe. So why doesn’t the government fix those loopholes? Excellent question! Perhaps it's because we haven't been electing the right people to government. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elias Pettersson Posted November 23, 2023 Share Posted November 23, 2023 6 minutes ago, Bob Long said: There's no such as a loophole. There's tax law. Imo complaining about the 1% let's our government off the hook for running programs badly. Exactly. The current government runs up the deficit to $1.2 trillion dollars with a $50 billion annual interest payment, and the first thing people think of in terms of fixing the problem is adding more taxes to the ultra rich. That’s the classic socialist model of wealth redistribution. It’s always the rich people that have to fix the problem, it’s never a situation where the government is held accountable for their poor decisions… Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UnkNuk Posted November 23, 2023 Share Posted November 23, 2023 11 minutes ago, Bob Long said: Imo complaining about the 1% let's our government off the hook for running programs badly. IMO we should probably be complaining about both! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Long Posted November 23, 2023 Share Posted November 23, 2023 1 minute ago, Elias Pettersson said: Exactly. The current government runs up the deficit to $1.2 trillion dollars with a $50 billion annual interest payment, and the first thing people think of in terms of fixing the problem is adding more taxes to the ultra rich. That’s the classic socialist model of wealth redistribution. It’s always the rich people that have to fix the problem, it’s never a situation where the government is held accountable for their poor decisions… I'm all for making sure fair taxes exist. I've never met a successful person that didn't pay a lot. But, this focus on them is a gift to bad governing. Why fix health authority waste when you can get people to blame someone else? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super19 Posted November 23, 2023 Share Posted November 23, 2023 5 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said: Exactly. The current government runs up the deficit to $1.2 trillion dollars with a $50 billion annual interest payment, and the first thing people think of in terms of fixing the problem is adding more taxes to the ultra rich. That’s the classic socialist model of wealth redistribution. It’s always the rich people that have to fix the problem, it’s never a situation where the government is held accountable for their poor decisions… With great power comes great responsibility. And people rich enough can influence govt. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UnkNuk Posted November 23, 2023 Share Posted November 23, 2023 3 minutes ago, Bob Long said: I'm all for making sure fair taxes exist. I've never met a successful person that didn't pay a lot. But, this focus on them is a gift to bad governing. Why fix health authority waste when you can get people to blame someone else? You seem to keep thinking it's an either/or situation. Why not do both? Take a look at our tax system to see if it is fair and also look at curbing government waste. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elias Pettersson Posted November 23, 2023 Share Posted November 23, 2023 4 minutes ago, Super19 said: With great power comes great responsibility. And people rich enough can influence govt. Well if rich people are so smart and can influence government, then why did we elect a poor school teacher to run the country? Maybe we should be electing rich people to run the country… Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4petesake Posted November 23, 2023 Share Posted November 23, 2023 13 minutes ago, Bob Long said: There's no such thing as a loophole. There's tax law. Imo complaining about the 1% let's our government off the hook for running programs badly. Sure there is tax law and guess who has the money and time to afford to have a team that makes sure you take every advantage available, both legit and straddling the line? It’s not the disadvantaged (or more and more of the middle class) that are stretched thin trying to keep food on the table and a roof over their head. Well except for all the successful single moms that Petey seems to know. Yes by all means make sure that social programs are running efficiently and reduce red tape in government as much as prudence allows at the same time but let’s not pretend that deficits can be fixed on the backs of the middle class. It ain’t no secret where wealth is being disproportionately accumulated to the detriment of society. G20 leaders endorsed a global minimum tax on big businesses. Anyone know where we are on that? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elias Pettersson Posted November 23, 2023 Share Posted November 23, 2023 5 minutes ago, UnkNuk said: You seem to keep thinking it's an either/or situation. Why not do both? Take a look at our tax system to see if it is fair and also look at curbing government waste. The government controls the CRA. Why hasn’t the government eliminated all the loopholes that allow rich people to pay less taxes? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4petesake Posted November 23, 2023 Share Posted November 23, 2023 2 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said: The government controls the CRA. Why hasn’t the government eliminated all the loopholes that allow rich people to pay less taxes? At least in Canada we still have hope that some government will do that one day, slim tho it may be. That ship has sailed in the US. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UnkNuk Posted November 23, 2023 Share Posted November 23, 2023 A bit of perspective here about our debts and interest payments. Near as I can make out, current interest payments of around $46 billion on a budget of around $457 billion means that roughly 1 of every 10 dollars raised in income tax is being used to pay interest. (I stand to be corrected on those figures.) Which, admittedly, is a lot of money that could be better spent on social programs. But consider this blast from the past: "It's easy to forget the dismal state of federal finances when the Chrétien government was elected in 1993. The federal debt was $607.3-billion, the deficit alone was $38.5-billion, and interest payments amounted to $40.1-billion. This meant that almost one in every three dollars collected by the federal government was spent on interest costs." https://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business/rob-commentary/canada-could-have-benefitted-from-a-chretien-budget-20/article34429559/ So, yes, the current interest payments on the debt are worrisome. But we made our way out of a worse mess years ago. Hopefully we can do the same again. 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elias Pettersson Posted November 23, 2023 Share Posted November 23, 2023 4 minutes ago, UnkNuk said: A bit of perspective here about our debts and interest payments. Near as I can make out, current interest payments of around $46 billion on a budget of around $457 billion means that roughly 1 of every 10 dollars raised in income tax is being used to pay interest. (I stand to be corrected on those figures.) Which, admittedly, is a lot of money that could be better spent on social programs. But consider this blast from the past: "It's easy to forget the dismal state of federal finances when the Chrétien government was elected in 1993. The federal debt was $607.3-billion, the deficit alone was $38.5-billion, and interest payments amounted to $40.1-billion. This meant that almost one in every three dollars collected by the federal government was spent on interest costs." https://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business/rob-commentary/canada-could-have-benefitted-from-a-chretien-budget-20/article34429559/ So, yes, the current interest payments on the debt are worrisome. But we made our way out of a worse mess years ago. Hopefully we can do the same again. Yes, that was when Chretien was elected. That is what he inherited. By the time he left office we had balanced budgets. In comparison, Trudeau actually inherited a balanced budget, and now after 8 years we are in a $40 billion deficit. Do you see the difference? Trudeau did the exact opposite that Chretien did. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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