Canadian Politics Thread

[RupertKBD]

23 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:

 

That's a good "start", but about 8 years too late.  What about the last 8 years?

So, are you changing your complaint from "he's done nothing" to "he took too long to do something"?

 

Just trying to keep the whining straight....

[Elias Pettersson]

11 minutes ago, aGENT said:

 

I don't care about Trudeau (or the Liberals) FYI. And no, the Cons aren't the answer.

 

It did start 30 years ago with nixing the CMHC social housing budget. Then it's snowballed from there with the foreign the investment etc etc you listed.  Big problems don't start big. Nor is it usually just one thing that causes them. We've been ignoring the looming, growing, housing crisis for 30 years and no, neither the Cons before, or the Liberals more recently, have done sweet fuck all about it.

 

We probably shouldn't elect either party.

 

I do agree with this point.  This was basically the start, even though we didn't really see the effects until decades later.  But if you want to pinpoint the first step and say hey, it started with this CMHC thing 30 years ago, then I would agree with that premise...

[aGENT]

4 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:

 

Isn't the federal government responsible for the millions in new immigrants that have moved into Canada?  How did Trudeau and his government think they were going to house all of these people?

 

Trudeau says feds aren't primarily responsible for housing, but how responsible are they? | CBC News

 

The Canada Mortgage and Housing Corporation (CMHC), which is responsible for implementing Canada's National Housing Act, is a federal crown corporation. CMHC says it "exists for a single reason: to make housing affordable for everyone in Canada," according to its website. The organization provides mortgage insurance, sets rules for who can qualify for mortgage insurance, collects data about housing in Canada, and more.

 

Immigration, an area of federal jurisdiction, has also been a contentious issue when it comes to housing. Canada welcomed 437,180 newcomers in 2022, and the number of non-permanent residents increased by a net 607,782 people.  The record number of immigrants is a factor pushing up demand for housing. 

 

"You can't just dump a bunch of newcomers in Canada when we have a housing shortage, and expect the provinces to sort of pick up the slack," Miljan said.

 

Housing is a direct federal responsibility, contrary to what Trudeau said. Here’s how his government can do better. (theconversation.com)

 

History of federal housing engagement

 

Trudeau seems to have forgotten about the federal government’s previous involvement in housing. After the Second World War, the Canadian government helped create a million low-cost Victory Houses using government land, direct grants and industrialized production processes that allowed new homes to be assembled in as little as 36 hours.

 

From the mid-1960s to the mid-1980s, between 10 and 20 per cent of new construction was non-market housing — public, community and co-op — supported through federal land, grants and financing partnerships with provincial and municipal governments.

 

Read more: New study reveals intensified housing inequality in Canada from 1981 to 2016

 

As a result of federal government actions, the average home cost 2.5 times the average household income in 1980. Today, the average home in Canada costs 8.8 times the average income, with homes in Toronto and Vancouver costing 13.2 and 14.4 times respectively.

 

The production of non-market housing fell off a cliff in 1992 when the federal government downloaded responsibility for affordable housing to provinces.

 

Five priorities for the federal government

 

There is an opportunity for real federal leadership with the recent announcement that Sean Fraser will take on a combined Ministry of Housing, Infrastructure and Communities. Rather than dodging responsibility, the federal government should pursue five priorities.

 

First, the federal government must return to using a single income-based definition of affordable housing in its programs, as it did from the 1940s to the 1990s.

Evidence-based supply targets for provinces and municipalities would reflect the fact that 78 per cent of households in need of housing can afford no more than $1,050 a month for rent and homeless people no more than $420 a month.

 

The housing crisis has its roots in the federal government’s abandonment and ongoing neglect of affordable housing. 

 

Second, delivery of genuinely affordable housing — including a fair share of Indigenous housing built by and for Indigenous people — will require land from all three levels of government, grants to non-market housing providers and low-cost financing.

 

Scotiabank’s recommendation to double non-market stock with 655,000 new or acquired homes over the next decade is a starting point to eradicating homelessness by 2030 and reducing the core housing needs of 530,000 families by 2028.

 

Third, a progressive surtax placed on the most expensive homes in Canada, or redressing the $3.2 trillion capital gains tax shelter for principal residences, could fund an improved National Housing Strategy with a stronger focus on those who need housing the most. (funny, I suggested this in this thread a few days ago and got laughed at)

 

Fourth, the government must meet the needs of its rapidly growing population and ensure middle-income families can afford to raise their children in urban areas.

Taxation reform and offering long-term, low-cost financing for purpose-built rental homes are both federal government responsibilities. So is supporting Canadian firms to become world leaders in prefabricated modular housing.

 

The final priority the federal government should consider is using conditional agreements for infrastructure funding to encourage other levels of government to do more.

Provincial and territorial welfare rates and minimum wages don’t match housing costs. Insufficient provincial funding for health and social supports has put federal rapid housing initiatives at risk.

 

We need immigrants to keep the pyramid sche...errr... economy going.  

 

Immigration isn't the problem. Not funding housing, from either of the two major parties, for decades, is.

[aGENT]

7 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:

 

I do agree with this point.  This was basically the start, even though we didn't really see the effects until decades later.  But if you want to pinpoint the first step and say hey, it started with this CMHC thing 30 years ago, then I would agree with that premise...

 

That, the foreign investment, the constant race to the bottom, outsourcing increasing wage gap/shrinking middle class...it's all connected. A lot of that has been happening since the 80's. Most of the biggest problems, caused/started by the right. But sure, the Libs haven't done much to fix it either.

 

Again, logic should dictate we don't elect either party. Unfortunately, logic also dictates that there's fuck all else to vote for 

Edited November 28, 2023 by aGENT

[Elias Pettersson]

1 minute ago, RupertKBD said:

So, are you changing your complaint from "he's done nothing" to "he took too long to do something"?

 

Just trying to keep the whining straight....

 

I said he hasn't done anything since he was elected in 2015.  You then bring up something that hasn't even been technically implemented yet and use that to cover for the last 8 years of incompetence.

 

That's like the Canucks signing some Russian defenceman who won't be with the team for 2 years, and then go and tell the fans, see we addressed our RHD situation.  Vladimir Tryamkin will be with us in 2 years to help us win the cup, we are so excited that Vladimir will be with us real soon!!!

[RupertKBD]

Just now, Elias Pettersson said:

 

I said he hasn't done anything since he was elected in 2015.  You then bring up something that hasn't even been technically implemented yet and use that to cover for the last 8 years of incompetence.

 

That's like the Canucks signing some Russian defenceman who won't be with the team for 2 years, and then go and tell the fans, see we addressed our RHD situation.  Vladimir Tryamkin will be with us in 2 years to help us win the cup, we are so excited that Vladimir will be with us real soon!!!

 

Oh yes, let's get "technical"....

 

.....then lets go back to where you say you aren't blaming Trudeau....and then start blaming Trudeau....

 

Also, your hockey analogy sucks. You should stick to not blaming/blaming Trudeau for housing prices in Vancouver....because he totally controls that.

[Alflives]

2 minutes ago, aGENT said:

 

We need immigrants to keep the pyramid sche...errr... economy going.  

 

Immigration isn't the problem. Not funding housing, from either of the two major parties, for decades, is.

That’s it for sure. Our economy is a sham. It’s based on expansion. We don’t really have the primary, resource extraction and secondary manufacturing industries big enough to support our population anymore. If we didn’t have the facad of the housing bubble driving the economy of our biggest metro regions we’d be totally screwed. And we need new people to put the pressure on housing to keep that going. It’s a facade. When that bubble bursts, which it will, say hello to a real tightening of the public soending. Lots of those suckling now will be totally screwed. They won’t know where to feed. It’s coming. 

[Elias Pettersson]

3 minutes ago, RupertKBD said:

 

Oh yes, let's get "technical"....

 

.....then lets go back to where you say you aren't blaming Trudeau....and then start blaming Trudeau....

 

Also, your hockey analogy sucks. You should stick to not blaming/blaming Trudeau for housing prices in Vancouver....because he totally controls that.

 

I never blamed Trudeau for the housing crisis.  Obviously, it started well before he was around.  What I did say was that he hasn't done anything to address it since he became PM in 2015.  Is that clearer for you now?

[RupertKBD]

Just now, Elias Pettersson said:

 

I never blamed Trudeau for the housing crisis.  Obviously, it started well before he was around.  What I did say was that he hasn't done anything to address it since he became PM in 2015.  Is that clearer for you now?

 

And I provided a link that showed he has. You might think it's "late", but there was a global pandemic that we had to get though....

 

Is that clearer for you?

[Elias Pettersson]

1 minute ago, RupertKBD said:

 

And I provided a link that showed he has. You might think it's "late", but there was a global pandemic that we had to get though....

 

Is that clearer for you?

 

Yes, crystal clear.

 

There was no pandemic in 2015, 2016, 2017, 2018 and 2019.  Also, the pandemic ended last year.  I know it's easy to use the pandemic as an excuse for everything, but sometimes you have to find another excuse.

 

In any event, I'm not really worried about what Trudeau is doing now.  The voters know it's 8 years too late.  Even the unionized workers aren't voting for him, so he won't be around much longer...

[aGENT]

13 minutes ago, Alflives said:

That’s it for sure. Our economy is a sham. It’s based on expansion. We don’t really have the primary, resource extraction and secondary manufacturing industries big enough to support our population anymore. If we didn’t have the facad of the housing bubble driving the economy of our biggest metro regions we’d be totally screwed. And we need new people to put the pressure on housing to keep that going. It’s a facade. When that bubble bursts, which it will, say hello to a real tightening of the public soending. Lots of those suckling now will be totally screwed. They won’t know where to feed. It’s coming. 

 

If you look at income disparity trends, the people "suckling" are CEO/excutive million/billionaires. 

[RupertKBD]

1 minute ago, Elias Pettersson said:

 

Yes, crystal clear.

 

There was no pandemic in 2015, 2016, 2017, 2018 and 2019.  Also, the pandemic ended last year.  I know it's easy to use the pandemic as an excuse for everything, but sometimes you have to find another excuse.

 

In any event, I'm not really worried about what Trudeau is doing now.  The voters know it's 8 years too late.  Even the unionized workers aren't voting for him, so he won't be around much longer...

 

I don't need "an excuse". You said this: "Absolutely nothing has been done about the housing crisis and housing affordability since Trudeau took office".

 

I posted something that showed you were incorrect. If you had said "he didn't do anything for a long time", I wouldn't have commented.

[Olli Juolevi]

On 11/24/2023 at 3:46 PM, JoeyJoeJoeJr. Shabadoo said:

Like Pierre, it's always best to get the facts before you put your foot in your mouth. More in the link.

 

https://ca.news.yahoo.com/poilievre-rainbow-bridge-terrorist-attack-canada-reactions-213016476.html?guccounter=1Paola

 

Loriggio of the Canadian Press asked Poilievre if he thought "it was responsible for you to call yesterday's explosion by the checkpoint at the Rainbow bridge 'terrorism' when no U.S. or Canadian authorities said that was the case and when the New York governor also said there was no evidence to suggest terrorism activity?"

Poilievre explained that his remarks were based on a CTV report that claimed Canadian government officials were operating under the assumption that Wednesday's vehicle explosion was terror-related.

“What I said, and I was right, was that there were media reports of a terror-related event. By your admission there were media reports of a terror-related event.”

“And that media report, according to CTV, unless you are questioning their integrity now, came from security officials in the Trudeau government,” Poilievre admonished.

Following Poilievre's heated exchange with the Canadian Press reporter, CTV wrote in its coverage later that day that the information Poilievre claims to be citing was reported approximately 15 minutes after he rose in the House to ask Trudeau about "media reports about a terrorist attack."

To be fair, there was a media outlet that had called it an act of terrorism at the time Poilievre said that. It starts with F and rhymes with "box".

 

 

[Elias Pettersson]

45 minutes ago, RupertKBD said:

 

I don't need "an excuse". You said this: "Absolutely nothing has been done about the housing crisis and housing affordability since Trudeau took office".

 

I posted something that showed you were incorrect. If you had said "he didn't do anything for a long time", I wouldn't have commented.

 

Okay, that's fair, I'll concede this one...   

[UnkNuk]

1 hour ago, Elias Pettersson said:

 

I do agree with this point.  This was basically the start, even though we didn't really see the effects until decades later.  But if you want to pinpoint the first step and say hey, it started with this CMHC thing 30 years ago, then I would agree with that premise...

 

Right.

 

From a CBC article:

 

In the early to mid-1990s, back-to-back governments of different political stripes — first the Conservative government under Brian Mulroney and then Jean Chretien's Liberals — began pulling back from the business of affordable housing.

 

Facing big deficits and with neoliberalism taking hold globally, Ottawa reduced spending on housing, cut the federal co-operative housing program (one that saw the construction of nearly 60,000 homes) and eventually pulled the plug on building any new affordable housing units altogether. 

 

https://www.cbc.ca/radio/sunday/federal-social-housing-1.6946376

 

So because of the bad financial shape of the government at the time.  In order to balance the books they cut back on social programs.

 

Maybe if, at that time, they had increased taxes on the wealthy instead we could have avoided such cuts and the current housing crisis wouldn't be so bad.

 

Hopefully a lesson learned for this next round of dealing with debts and deficits.

[JoeyJoeJoeJr. Shabadoo]

2 hours ago, Olli Juolevi said:

To be fair, there was a media outlet that had called it an act of terrorism at the time Poilievre said that. It starts with F and rhymes with "box".

 

 

I figured it was xwitter or truth social but that tracks

[Spur1]

The housing market will solve itself.

Government getting involved only slows things down. 

Edited November 28, 2023 by Spur1

[BPA]

In other news…

 

Alberta invokes Sovereignty Act over federal clean electricity regulations.

 

[Optimist Prime]

4 hours ago, Elias Pettersson said:

 

That's a good "start", but about 8 years too late.  What about the last 8 years?

The first ever national housing strategy is only 8 years too late for you? The 1st ever... that is called looking for a crime to pin to your villain rather than looking for the villain to solve a crime.

[4petesake]

1 hour ago, BPA said:

In other news…

 

Alberta invokes Sovereignty Act over federal clean electricity regulations.

 

 

One of the many current scams from the UCP.
 

First they de-regulate the energy market and allow economic withholding in the power market (think OPEC style price fixing which allows power companies to withhold electricity to artificially keep prices high) by allowing PPAs (power purchase agreements) to expire in 2020 under Jason Kenney. This caused an immediate spike in electricity prices, which then (surprise!) they blamed on the Trudeau and the green energy regulations that are to begin in 2 yrs and be in full effect in 2035.

 

“These numpties bitch and complain about the cost of regulation in our power grid when really the largest increase is directly tied to DEREGULATION.” -thanks to u/JohnYCanuckEsq at Reddit.

 

Now Smith is floating the idea of a Crown Corporation Electric company. Kind of the opposite of deregulation but regulation under provincial control. Coincidentally Jason Kenney has now been hired as VP of (you can’t make this shit up!) Alberta Energy Regulator.

 

 

 

 

Edited November 28, 2023 by 4petesake

[Elias Pettersson]

1 hour ago, Optimist Prime said:

The first ever national housing strategy is only 8 years too late for you? The 1st ever... that is called looking for a crime to pin to your villain rather than looking for the villain to solve a crime.

 

Have you actually read the National Housing Strategy?

 

https://www.cmhc-schl.gc.ca/nhs/guidepage-strategy

 

The end result will see:

strengthen the middle class

cut chronic homelessness in half

build up to 160,000 new homes

fuel our economy

create a new generation of housing in Canada

 

In comparison, this is what CMHC says we actually need:

 

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/housing-affordability-cmhc-report-2030-1.6498898

 

The Canada Mortgage and Housing Corp. (CMHC) says 3.5 million more homes need to be built by 2030 to reach affordability.

 

If current rates of new construction continue, CMHC said the country's housing stock is expected to increase by 2.3 million units by 2030, reaching close to 19 million units total. But in order to achieve affordability for all Canadians, the agency said an additional 3.5 million homes are needed.

 

I said the National Housing Strategy is a “start”.  According to the government’s own website, we need to build an additional 3.5 million homes over the next 7 years to achieve housing affordability.  According to the National Housing Strategy’s own website, the government intends to build up to 160,000 new homes over the next 7 years.  According to my math, 160,000 is ALOT less than 3.5 million.  As a matter of fact, it’s basically inconsequential. 

 

If people want to applaud the Trudeau government for starting a new housing strategy that will only build 160,000 new homes out of the 3.5 million that are needed because of the government’s immigration policies, then go for it.  I’m sure this new initiative will get lots of media play right before the election. 

 

Unfortunately, it’s not going to work. Most people have already figured things out. Those 3.5 million new homes that are needed over the next 7 years aren’t coming.  And as a result, our housing crisis is going to get significantly worse over time. 

 

RBC's latest housing affordability report released Thursday reveals that the situation is the worst its been since the early 1990s, and will worsen before it gets better.

 

"The Bank of Canada's 'forceful' interest rate hiking campaign will further inflate ownership costs in the near term, putting RBC's national affordability measure on a path to worst-ever levels," RBC senior economist Robert Hogue said in the report. "However, we see the burgeoning price correction eventually bringing some relief to buyers."

 

According to RBC, our national housing affordability measure is on a path to be the worst ever in recorded history. 

[RupertKBD]

6 hours ago, Elias Pettersson said:

 

Have you actually read the National Housing Strategy?

 

https://www.cmhc-schl.gc.ca/nhs/guidepage-strategy

 

The end result will see:

strengthen the middle class

cut chronic homelessness in half

build up to 160,000 new homes

fuel our economy

create a new generation of housing in Canada

 

In comparison, this is what CMHC says we actually need:

 

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/housing-affordability-cmhc-report-2030-1.6498898

 

The Canada Mortgage and Housing Corp. (CMHC) says 3.5 million more homes need to be built by 2030 to reach affordability.

 

If current rates of new construction continue, CMHC said the country's housing stock is expected to increase by 2.3 million units by 2030, reaching close to 19 million units total. But in order to achieve affordability for all Canadians, the agency said an additional 3.5 million homes are needed.

 

I said the National Housing Strategy is a “start”.  According to the government’s own website, we need to build an additional 3.5 million homes over the next 7 years to achieve housing affordability.  According to the National Housing Strategy’s own website, the government intends to build up to 160,000 new homes over the next 7 years.  According to my math, 160,000 is ALOT less than 3.5 million.  As a matter of fact, it’s basically inconsequential. 

 

If people want to applaud the Trudeau government for starting a new housing strategy that will only build 160,000 new homes out of the 3.5 million that are needed because of the government’s immigration policies, then go for it.  I’m sure this new initiative will get lots of media play right before the election. 

 

Unfortunately, it’s not going to work. Most people have already figured things out. Those 3.5 million new homes that are needed over the next 7 years aren’t coming.  And as a result, our housing crisis is going to get significantly worse over time. 

 

RBC's latest housing affordability report released Thursday reveals that the situation is the worst its been since the early 1990s, and will worsen before it gets better.

 

"The Bank of Canada's 'forceful' interest rate hiking campaign will further inflate ownership costs in the near term, putting RBC's national affordability measure on a path to worst-ever levels," RBC senior economist Robert Hogue said in the report. "However, we see the burgeoning price correction eventually bringing some relief to buyers."

 

According to RBC, our national housing affordability measure is on a path to be the worst ever in recorded history. 

 

If I'm reading the room correctly, you're saying that it's okay, but it doesn't go nearly far enough...is that right?

 

I think it's a fair point, but since you were one of the posters who were concerned about the size of the national debt, how to you square a 20 fold investment increase into affordable housing with paying down the debt?

[BPA]

7 hours ago, 4petesake said:

 

One of the many current scams from the UCP.
 

First they de-regulate the energy market and allow economic withholding in the power market (think OPEC style price fixing which allows power companies to withhold electricity to artificially keep prices high) by allowing PPAs (power purchase agreements) to expire in 2020 under Jason Kenney. This caused an immediate spike in electricity prices, which then (surprise!) they blamed on the Trudeau and the green energy regulations that are to begin in 2 yrs and be in full effect in 2035.

 

“These numpties bitch and complain about the cost of regulation in our power grid when really the largest increase is directly tied to DEREGULATION.” -thanks to u/JohnYCanuckEsq at Reddit.

 

Now Smith is floating the idea of a Crown Corporation Electric company. Kind of the opposite of deregulation but regulation under provincial control. Coincidentally Jason Kenney has now been hired as VP of (you can’t make this shit up!) Alberta Energy Regulator.

 

 

 

 

Just wait until Alberta opts out of the CPP and make their own Alberta Pension Plan.

 

[Optimist Prime]

6 hours ago, Elias Pettersson said:

 

Have you actually read the National Housing Strategy?

 

https://www.cmhc-schl.gc.ca/nhs/guidepage-strategy

 

The end result will see:

strengthen the middle class

cut chronic homelessness in half

build up to 160,000 new homes

fuel our economy

create a new generation of housing in Canada

 

In comparison, this is what CMHC says we actually need:

 

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/housing-affordability-cmhc-report-2030-1.6498898

 

The Canada Mortgage and Housing Corp. (CMHC) says 3.5 million more homes need to be built by 2030 to reach affordability.

 

If current rates of new construction continue, CMHC said the country's housing stock is expected to increase by 2.3 million units by 2030, reaching close to 19 million units total. But in order to achieve affordability for all Canadians, the agency said an additional 3.5 million homes are needed.

 

I said the National Housing Strategy is a “start”.  According to the government’s own website, we need to build an additional 3.5 million homes over the next 7 years to achieve housing affordability.  According to the National Housing Strategy’s own website, the government intends to build up to 160,000 new homes over the next 7 years.  According to my math, 160,000 is ALOT less than 3.5 million.  As a matter of fact, it’s basically inconsequential. 

 

If people want to applaud the Trudeau government for starting a new housing strategy that will only build 160,000 new homes out of the 3.5 million that are needed because of the government’s immigration policies, then go for it.  I’m sure this new initiative will get lots of media play right before the election. 

 

Unfortunately, it’s not going to work. Most people have already figured things out. Those 3.5 million new homes that are needed over the next 7 years aren’t coming.  And as a result, our housing crisis is going to get significantly worse over time. 

 

RBC's latest housing affordability report released Thursday reveals that the situation is the worst its been since the early 1990s, and will worsen before it gets better.

 

"The Bank of Canada's 'forceful' interest rate hiking campaign will further inflate ownership costs in the near term, putting RBC's national affordability measure on a path to worst-ever levels," RBC senior economist Robert Hogue said in the report. "However, we see the burgeoning price correction eventually bringing some relief to buyers."

 

According to RBC, our national housing affordability measure is on a path to be the worst ever in recorded history. 

I guess I feel 160,000 new homes added to that 2.3 million helps to bridge the gap towards the 3.5 million, the Canadian Federal Government shouldn't be in the house building business, but 160,000 new homes will help, when added to the free markets 2.3 million estimated (and that is an estimate, what if it is 2.7 million, then the 160k brings it to 2.87... it is semantics at this point...i think 160,000 more than any other government is a good thing, you don't, but if it was a million new homes you would be outraged at the waste of taxpayers money. You can't win if your not the candidate you prefer, in your arguments. 

[Optimist Prime]

12 hours ago, aGENT said:

 

That, the foreign investment, the constant race to the bottom, outsourcing increasing wage gap/shrinking middle class...it's all connected. A lot of that has been happening since the 80's. Most of the biggest problems, caused/started by the right. But sure, the Libs haven't done much to fix it either.

 

Again, logic should dictate we don't elect either party. Unfortunately, logic also dictates that there's fuck all else to vote for 

Pretty accurate actually. I vote and support and occasionally work towards the goals of the Federal Liberal Party not because I am a dyed in the wool Liberal with a capital L or because i am a sucker for nice hair. I joined the party under the incredibly brilliant Stephane Dion generally related to the climate concerns he was expressing at the time, but also as a result of the basic expulsion of Progressives from the Conservative movement. Reform is Ridiculous and that wing of the right has steam rolled more centrist right wing thinking people, and more recently has started wooing the far right, including P.P.'s backing somewhat of the Cowboy Convoy in Ottawa. The CON MEN have steadily marched right of me over my adult lifetime and I find them now to be absurd. I have talked with the Prime Minister, mostly during elections, but mostly with his team and not directly, I like him, I find him bright and genuinely interested in the just causes he has championed. His commitment to First Nations peoples of Canada to me is self evident, even if he did take a vacation on a holiday, that was made into a political ad by P.P. 
I would vote Liberal with or without him though, only because on the issues, there is no other party that represents me so closely as the Liberal Party of Canada, If they didn't exist in my riding, I would reluctantly vote NDP, but not green, although they got my vote in the college years. I know I am unique, most folks are mad as hell at something and Trudeau may well represent whatever it is that has people roiling these days. He has my vote if he stays, and if not, i will support the smartest, most scientific candidate to replace him.