Canadian Politics Thread

[4petesake]

41 minutes ago, BPA said:

Just wait until Alberta opts out of the CPP and make their own Alberta Pension Plan.

 

 

Timely comment…I just received my very first CPP payment this morning.  A fair portion of my working life was in Alberta so I would lose 15 years of CPP contributions without even having a vote.
 

Like Leon I’m a little pissy…

[Gurn]

https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/canada/tory-mp-banned-in-commons-until-he-apologizes-for-calling-ndp-hamas-supporters/ar-AA1kFKk8?ocid=hpmsn&cvid=1213a3ffe7a04d79996a1522c68d6f65&ei=47

"Conservative Miramichi-Grand Lake MP Jake Stewart must apologize in writing for the “unparliamentary” language he used in the House of Commons last week, Speaker Greg Fergus has ruled.

 

And Stewart won’t be allowed to speak inside the House of Commons until he does so.

Fergus has ruled on a point of order he received from a New Democrat MP who said Stewart used “hateful language throughout question period multiple times” last week, calling it “extraordinarily unparliamentary.”

Stewart said he called New Democrat MPs “Hamas supporters,” going as far as to repeat his words into the record.

He’s now being reprimanded for it.

--------------------------------

more at link

[aGENT]

12 hours ago, Elias Pettersson said:

 

Have you actually read the National Housing Strategy?

 

https://www.cmhc-schl.gc.ca/nhs/guidepage-strategy

 

The end result will see:

strengthen the middle class

cut chronic homelessness in half

build up to 160,000 new homes

fuel our economy

create a new generation of housing in Canada

 

In comparison, this is what CMHC says we actually need:

 

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/housing-affordability-cmhc-report-2030-1.6498898

 

The Canada Mortgage and Housing Corp. (CMHC) says 3.5 million more homes need to be built by 2030 to reach affordability.

 

If current rates of new construction continue, CMHC said the country's housing stock is expected to increase by 2.3 million units by 2030, reaching close to 19 million units total. But in order to achieve affordability for all Canadians, the agency said an additional 3.5 million homes are needed.

 

I said the National Housing Strategy is a “start”.  According to the government’s own website, we need to build an additional 3.5 million homes over the next 7 years to achieve housing affordability.  According to the National Housing Strategy’s own website, the government intends to build up to 160,000 new homes over the next 7 years.  According to my math, 160,000 is ALOT less than 3.5 million.  As a matter of fact, it’s basically inconsequential. 

 

If people want to applaud the Trudeau government for starting a new housing strategy that will only build 160,000 new homes out of the 3.5 million that are needed because of the government’s immigration policies, then go for it.  I’m sure this new initiative will get lots of media play right before the election. 

 

Unfortunately, it’s not going to work. Most people have already figured things out. Those 3.5 million new homes that are needed over the next 7 years aren’t coming.  And as a result, our housing crisis is going to get significantly worse over time. 

 

RBC's latest housing affordability report released Thursday reveals that the situation is the worst its been since the early 1990s, and will worsen before it gets better.

 

"The Bank of Canada's 'forceful' interest rate hiking campaign will further inflate ownership costs in the near term, putting RBC's national affordability measure on a path to worst-ever levels," RBC senior economist Robert Hogue said in the report. "However, we see the burgeoning price correction eventually bringing some relief to buyers."

 

According to RBC, our national housing affordability measure is on a path to be the worst ever in recorded history. 

 

 

This is our government/election history in a nutshell. 

 

The Cons, fuck things up by slashing funding to vital public services in the name of "smaller government"  (while giving tax breaks to the rich/corporations on the backs of the working class, and which cuts always costs more to repair in the long run). The Liberals come in too late, with too little, to address the problems the right caused. The populace gets angry they didn't do enough, and re-elect the Cons as protest....only for them to fuck things up again by slashing/selling off and remind everyone why we overwhelmingly voted the even bigger Con a-holes out in the first place. Rinse and repeat. 

 

Like I said, logic would dictate we shouldn't vote for either party and look for/demand somewhere better to land our votes.

 

BTW, how many units of social/low income housing should the federal government be responsible for building of those ~3.5m new homes? I think we can both agree 160K is probably too little (though certainly better than nothing). But some of the slack (3.5m-2.3m-160k = ~1m) also needs to be picked up by Provincial/Municipal governments and developers doing more as well (which some are).

Edited November 28, 2023 by aGENT

[UnkNuk]

16 hours ago, BPA said:

In other news…

 

Alberta invokes Sovereignty Act over federal clean electricity regulations.

 

 

For those, like me, who haven't been following these developments all that closely:

 

Alberta’s Danielle Smith invoked the sovereignty act for the first time. What happens next?

 

Alberta Premier Danielle Smith invoked the province’s sovereignty act on Monday, marking the first use of the signature law enacted last year.

 

The motion takes aim at Ottawa’s draft Clean Electricity Regulations, which call for an electricity grid that produces net-zero greenhouse gas emissions by 2035. Alberta believes the proposal infringes on the province’s constitutional right to manage its electricity industry, and that the 2035 goal is unrealistic.

 

Here’s everything to know so far.

 

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/canada/article-alberta-sovereignty-act-invoked-danielle-smith/

[Optimist Prime]

I am curious, if, let's say P.P. gets the most MPs elected under the Con banner, but in Parliament another person has a majority of MPs vote for them as Prime Minister, would everyone respect our laws and recognize that other person as Prime Minister or are looking at a Jan 6th Washington moment coming here in Canada?

[Elias Pettersson]

17 hours ago, RupertKBD said:

 

If I'm reading the room correctly, you're saying that it's okay, but it doesn't go nearly far enough...is that right?

 

I think it's a fair point, but since you were one of the posters who were concerned about the size of the national debt, how to you square a 20 fold investment increase into affordable housing with paying down the debt?

 

Yes, that is correct.

 

It's too late for the government to spend billions trying to fix the housing crisis.  We are too much in a hole now.  This should have been done starting in 2010.  So, like I've said several times before, the housing crisis itself is not Trudeau's fault.  It's been a problem for a long time and should have been addressed a long time ago.  Harper should have done things during his time and didn't bother.  He did however leave Trudeau with a balanced budget, which the Liberals quickly turned into a deficit each and every year they have been in power.

 

As for the housing crisis, Trudeau did campaign in 2015 and said he was gonna fix the problem.  The National Housing Strategy, the thing that just came out now, 8 years later, was a campaign promise made in 2015.  Not sure why he waited 8 years to roll it out.  My guess is he was running deficits every year, more than they promised, so didn't have the money to roll it out earlier.  I understand that COVID pushed the date back for the rollout, but there was a 4 year period before COVID to do that and they never did it.  Perhaps someone can explain to me why this happened...

 

Trudeau promises affordable housing for Canadians   | Liberal Party of Canada

 

Here is his quote from 2015, a month before the election:

 

“While Canadians struggle to make ends meet, Stephen Harper gives billions to the wealthiest few. Mulcair irresponsibly supports Harper’s plan to give more money to millionaires and will make major cuts to public services,” said Mr. Trudeau. “Only Liberals have a plan to put more money in families’ pockets to help with the high cost of raising their kids, and by investing in the social infrastructure that gives all Canadians a real and fair chance at success.”

[Elias Pettersson]

FYI, I voted for Trudeau in 2015.  That may shock some of you.  I wanted change just as much as anyone.  So, you can't really call me a Trudeau hater.  I voted for him and had confidence he would fix things.  My confidence has been shaken and I no longer trust the Trudeau government.  As a voter, I have a right to change my mind.  I am not saying that I am a PP supporter or that he is going to fix everything.  However, I am not willing to give the Liberals another chance.  We need change.  Voters eventually get tired of every PM.  There is a shelf life for all of them.

 

And my opinion is not in the minority here.  If an election were held today, PP would win in a landslide.  So, you can't call the majority of Canadians idiots or Trudeau haters.  Simply put, we have had enough and want change.  If the Liberals are smart, they would dump Trudeau and Freeland and find someone else to lead the party.  Chretien resigned and put Paul Martin in charge and it worked.  At least for a time.  If the Liberals can find a new leader and a new voice, then people like myself might change our minds with the Liberal party.  

[Elias Pettersson]

11 hours ago, aGENT said:

 

 

This is our government/election history in a nutshell. 

 

The Cons, fuck things up by slashing funding to vital public services in the name of "smaller government"  (while giving tax breaks to the rich/corporations on the backs of the working class, and which cuts always costs more to repair in the long run). The Liberals come in too late, with too little, to address the problems the right caused. The populace gets angry they didn't do enough, and re-elect the Cons as protest....only for them to fuck things up again by slashing/selling off and remind everyone why we overwhelmingly voted the even bigger Con a-holes out in the first place. Rinse and repeat. 

 

Like I said, logic would dictate we shouldn't vote for either party and look for/demand somewhere better to land our votes.

 

BTW, how many units of social/low income housing should the federal government be responsible for building of those ~3.5m new homes? I think we can both agree 160K is probably too little (though certainly better than nothing). But some of the slack (3.5m-2.3m-160k = ~1m) also needs to be picked up by Provincial/Municipal governments and developers doing more as well (which some are).

 

I don't agree necessarily with the Federal government being in the house building business.  So, I do agree that in order to fix the housing crisis, all 3 governments need to be involved.  From municipal, to provincial to federal.  Also, it's not 3.5 - 2.3 - 160k.  3.5 million is the net shortage.  The gross is 5.8.  So it's 3.5 million - 160k, which is insignificant, it brings it down to 3.34.  

 

At the end of the day, you have to vote for somebody.  If you vote for the NDP or the Green party, it's a wasted vote as they will never win.  What needs to happen is the two main parties need to find more competent leaders.  I could go to my local Safeway and probably find better people.  So, I am not sure why we get stuck with these incompetent leaders who over promise and under deliver every single election cycle...

Edited November 29, 2023 by Elias Pettersson

[bishopshodan]

5 hours ago, Elias Pettersson said:

So, you can't call the majority of Canadians idiots or Trudeau haters

 

'Majority rule, don't work in mental institutions'

 

Not a knock to you, just a shout to @Ilunga with that song lyric.

 

 

I am similar to you in that I voted for the Libs in 2015. Not since.

I'm not sure which direction that I will go next. I think it is well time to move on from JT, but i cannot trust PP and the Cons. 

 

I do not share your opinion on Freeland though. I think she has done well.

[Boudrias]

5 hours ago, Elias Pettersson said:

 

Yes, that is correct.

 

It's too late for the government to spend billions trying to fix the housing crisis.  We are too much in a hole now.  This should have been done starting in 2010.  So, like I've said several times before, the housing crisis itself is not Trudeau's fault.  It's been a problem for a long time and should have been addressed a long time ago.  Harper should have done things during his time and didn't bother.  He did however leave Trudeau with a balanced budget, which the Liberals quickly turned into a deficit each and every year they have been in power.

 

As for the housing crisis, Trudeau did campaign in 2015 and said he was gonna fix the problem.  The National Housing Strategy, the thing that just came out now, 8 years later, was a campaign promise made in 2015.  Not sure why he waited 8 years to roll it out.  My guess is he was running deficits every year, more than they promised, so didn't have the money to roll it out earlier.  I understand that COVID pushed the date back for the rollout, but there was a 4 year period before COVID to do that and they never did it.  Perhaps someone can explain to me why this happened...

 

Trudeau promises affordable housing for Canadians   | Liberal Party of Canada

 

Here is his quote from 2015, a month before the election:

 

“While Canadians struggle to make ends meet, Stephen Harper gives billions to the wealthiest few. Mulcair irresponsibly supports Harper’s plan to give more money to millionaires and will make major cuts to public services,” said Mr. Trudeau. “Only Liberals have a plan to put more money in families’ pockets to help with the high cost of raising their kids, and by investing in the social infrastructure that gives all Canadians a real and fair chance at success.”

The Trudeau government has been big advocates of immigration. I agree with this. The issue has been that the vast majority of these people are going to Toronto and Vancouver with the attending housing problems. 

 

I like Nicki Haley's idea that states be polled to see what they need for trades and tech people. Then immigrants can be sent there that meet that need. Why wouldn't this work in Canada. Tailor immigration to the skills needed and direct immigrants there for a minimum time before they can move. Provide support for these folks as they relocate and start their new lives. 

[RupertKBD]

5 hours ago, Elias Pettersson said:

FYI, I voted for Trudeau in 2015.  That may shock some of you.  I wanted change just as much as anyone.  So, you can't really call me a Trudeau hater.  I voted for him and had confidence he would fix things.  My confidence has been shaken and I no longer trust the Trudeau government.  As a voter, I have a right to change my mind.  I am not saying that I am a PP supporter or that he is going to fix everything.  However, I am not willing to give the Liberals another chance.  We need change.  Voters eventually get tired of every PM.  There is a shelf life for all of them.

 

And my opinion is not in the minority here.  If an election were held today, PP would win in a landslide.  So, you can't call the majority of Canadians idiots or Trudeau haters.  Simply put, we have had enough and want change.  If the Liberals are smart, they would dump Trudeau and Freeland and find someone else to lead the party.  Chretien resigned and put Paul Martin in charge and it worked.  At least for a time.  If the Liberals can find a new leader and a new voice, then people like myself might change our minds with the Liberal party.  

 

I think most of us agree with Trudeau stepping down, but I think you're way off base with Freeland.

 

I've never voted for JT, but I'd vote for CF....

[Bob Long]

13 minutes ago, Boudrias said:

The Trudeau government has been big advocates of immigration. I agree with this. The issue has been that the vast majority of these people are going to Toronto and Vancouver with the attending housing problems. 

 

I like Nicki Haley's idea that states be polled to see what they need for trades and tech people. Then immigrants can be sent there that meet that need. Why wouldn't this work in Canada. Tailor immigration to the skills needed and direct immigrants there for a minimum time before they can move. Provide support for these folks as they relocate and start their new lives. 

 

How do you prevent mobility though? 

[bishopshodan]

2 minutes ago, Bob Long said:

 

How do you prevent mobility though? 

 

Dont they do some version of what he is talking about? At least putting trade workers where we need them under certain programs? I'd ask him but he has long since stopped responding to me.

 

The reason I ask is that I swear a family friend, that was immigrating from England, had to work in Vancouver for a while in his trade that was in need. I'd have to ask next time I see them but this guy was living on the Island and communting to Vancouver.. I think it was part of the FSTP but I'm not sure.

 

https://arrivein.com/career-ca/federal-skilled-trades-program-fstp-immigrating-to-canada/

[RupertKBD]

3 minutes ago, Bob Long said:

 

How do you prevent mobility though? 

 

I don't think you can....You might be able to swing something like a 5 year commitment though. After the original term is finished, the family has the right to go wherever they like. By that time, it's quite possible that they've put down roots and decide to stay.

 

I think @Boudrias' idea has some merit. The logistics wouldn't be easy, but it would be worth looking at.

 

Just as an example, we see this sort of thing all the time. The college I work for has three main campuses. One here in Prince Rupert, one in Smithers (about 4 hours east) and the main campus in Terrace. The IT team that I'm part of includes recent immigrants from India, South Korea, The Phillippines, Brazil and the Middle East. We know when we hire a lot of these folks that they're viewing their stint up here as a stepping stone to "bigger and better" things.

 

In the past few years, we have lost about a half dozen of these employees to the lower mainland. There just seems to be this idea that if you want to "climb the ladder" in Information Technology, you have to do it in the big city....

[bishopshodan]

4 minutes ago, RupertKBD said:

After the original term is finished, the family has the right to go wherever they like.

Oh, this is what I might be thinking about. An original term?

 

I was so young when we came here that I dont know how it worked for us.

[Bob Long]

13 minutes ago, bishopshodan said:

 

Dont they do some version of what he is talking about? At least putting trade workers where we need them under certain programs? I'd ask him but he has long since stopped responding to me.

 

The reason I ask is that I swear a family friend, that was immigrating from England, had to work in Vancouver for a while in his trade that was in need. I'd have to ask next time I see them but this guy was living on the Island and communting to Vancouver.. I think it was part of the FSTP but I'm not sure.

 

https://arrivein.com/career-ca/federal-skilled-trades-program-fstp-immigrating-to-canada/

 

It could work up until people become citizens, but not after that. 

 

I guess the hope would be they put down roots in more rural areas but my guess is they leave at the same rate others do.

[Bob Long]

13 minutes ago, RupertKBD said:

 

I don't think you can....You might be able to swing something like a 5 year commitment though. After the original term is finished, the family has the right to go wherever they like. By that time, it's quite possible that they've put down roots and decide to stay.

 

I think @Boudrias' idea has some merit. The logistics wouldn't be easy, but it would be worth looking at.

 

Just as an example, we see this sort of thing all the time. The college I work for has three main campuses. One here in Prince Rupert, one in Smithers (about 4 hours east) and the main campus in Terrace. The IT team that I'm part of includes recent immigrants from India, South Korea, The Phillippines, Brazil and the Middle East. We know when we hire a lot of these folks that they're viewing their stint up here as a stepping stone to "bigger and better" things.

 

In the past few years, we have lost about a half dozen of these employees to the lower mainland. There just seems to be this idea that if you want to "climb the ladder" in Information Technology, you have to do it in the big city....

 

Are they wrong though? Can you find the same opportunity in PR as Surrey or Burnaby?

 

I do think people don't view smaller towns in Canada as highly as they should, but not sure how to change it.

[RupertKBD]

Just now, Bob Long said:

Are they wrong though? Can you find the same opportunity in PR as Surrey or Burnaby?

 

I do think people don't view smaller towns in Canada as highly as they should, but not sure how to change it.

 

It depends on the job you want, I suppose. We have a couple of senior techs that we poached from Telus. They both make comparable money to what a guy working a similar job in the LM would make and they're a 10 minute commute to and from work. They can also afford to buy a house....

 

But if you're the type of person that needs to go to sporting events and concerts....or if you have a dream of being CIO for UBC at some point, then yes, you'll probably have to move.

[Bob Long]

2 minutes ago, RupertKBD said:

 

It depends on the job you want, I suppose. We have a couple of senior techs that we poached from Telus. They both make comparable money to what a guy working a similar job in the LM would make and they're a 10 minute commute to and from work. They can also afford to buy a house....

 

But if you're the type of person that needs to go to sporting events and concerts....or if you have a dream of being CIO for UBC at some point, then yes, you'll probably have to move.

 

It could also be that it's easier to find more cultural connections in the lm.  If you don't fit in to whatever the majority is in a small town it can be hard. Some places are also very cliquey like Nova Scotia. 

[aGENT]

9 hours ago, Elias Pettersson said:

 

Yes, that is correct.

 

It's too late for the government to spend billions trying to fix the housing crisis.  We are too much in a hole now.  This should have been done starting in 2010.

 

It should have been started probably ~ten years sooner, not long after the funding was slashed from the CMHC housing budget. Though wage gap and foreign investment still would have been issues.

 

9 hours ago, Elias Pettersson said:

So, like I've said several times before, the housing crisis itself is not Trudeau's fault.  It's been a problem for a long time and should have been addressed a long time ago.  Harper should have done things during his time and didn't bother.  He did however leave Trudeau with a balanced budget, which the Liberals quickly turned into a deficit each and every year they have been in power.

 

They didn't balance the budget. They cut vital social programs, Coast Guard etc and sold off the Wheat Board to the Saudis while lowering taxes for the rich. The same M.O. they always dob when in power.

 

9 hours ago, Elias Pettersson said:

As for the housing crisis, Trudeau did campaign in 2015 and said he was gonna fix the problem.  The National Housing Strategy, the thing that just came out now, 8 years later, was a campaign promise made in 2015.  Not sure why he waited 8 years to roll it out.  My guess is he was running deficits every year, more than they promised, so didn't have the money to roll it out earlier.  I understand that COVID pushed the date back for the rollout, but there was a 4 year period before COVID to do that and they never did it.  Perhaps someone can explain to me why this happened...

 

Trudeau promises affordable housing for Canadians   | Liberal Party of Canada

 

Here is his quote from 2015, a month before the election:

 

“While Canadians struggle to make ends meet, Stephen Harper gives billions to the wealthiest few. Mulcair irresponsibly supports Harper’s plan to give more money to millionaires and will make major cuts to public services,” said Mr. Trudeau. “Only Liberals have a plan to put more money in families’ pockets to help with the high cost of raising their kids, and by investing in the social infrastructure that gives all Canadians a real and fair chance at success.”

 

 

That quote doesn't actually mention housing FYI. Might want to revise your post to grab the one that does from the article.

 

That said, while we both agree it's too little and too late, governments do work slowly. You can't tackle everything in your platform at the same time and yeah, a global pandemic may have knocked it down the priority list. And you don't seem to like debt or deficits (I agree) but you want them to spend more on housing? Which is it?

 

9 hours ago, Elias Pettersson said:

 

 

9 hours ago, Elias Pettersson said:

 

I don't agree necessarily with the Federal government being in the house building business.

 

Then what are you complaining about? Either you want the feds to spearhead more housing solutions, while spending more, or you're agreeing that doing nothing and leaving it to provincial/municipal governments and developers was the right thing. Which is it?

 

Personally given that a lack of social housing started 30 years ago is one of the major reasons (along with wage gap, foreign investment and developmental red tape) for our current housing market issues, I very much think government should be in the (social) housing business.

 

9 hours ago, Elias Pettersson said:

 

So, I do agree that in order to fix the housing crisis, all 3 governments need to be involved.  From municipal, to provincial to federal.  Also, it's not 3.5 - 2.3 - 160k.  3.5 million is the net shortage.  The gross is 5.8.  So it's 3.5 million - 160k, which is insignificant, it brings it down to 3.34.  

 

Fair enough.

 

9 hours ago, Elias Pettersson said:

 

At the end of the day, you have to vote for somebody.  If you vote for the NDP or the Green party, it's a wasted vote as they will never win. 

 

Voting for what you believe in is never a waste. Multiple NDP parties have helped legislate a LOT of great things to Canadians, despite never outright holding power for example. Though I'm not overly keen on them, or their leader at the moment either.

 

9 hours ago, Elias Pettersson said:

 

What needs to happen is the two main parties need to find more competent leaders.  I could go to my local Safeway and probably find better people.  So, I am not sure why we get stuck with these incompetent leaders who over promise and under deliver every single election cycle...

 

Party leadership is overrated. They're largely just the face of the party. A spokesperson. The actual policies, platform and actually DOING them while in power are far, FAR more important.

 

We get stuck with them because what normal person wants to deal with all the nonsense and vitriol. You want people driving around with "Fuck Elias Pettersson" stickers on their trucks for your kids to read?

Edited November 29, 2023 by aGENT

[Satchmo]

31 minutes ago, RupertKBD said:

make comparable money to what a guy working a similar job in the LM would make and they're a 10 minute commute to and from work. They can also afford to buy a house.

Well there is the story of my life.  The married with children part of it anyway.   It's been a  good story.   

[Boudrias]

1 hour ago, Bob Long said:

 

How do you prevent mobility though? 

You could bring people in on visas that would be converted to citizenship after a prescribed time. I don't think the country should be shy about making demands to be completed before citizenship is granted. That said Canada has to commit to supporting these folks so that they can earn a living and house themselves. 

 

I had a close friend who escaped communist Hungry and came to Canada with rudimentary construction skills. Although he ended up in our small BC town he originally went to Toronto because he didn't know anything of Canada and assumed it would be easier to fit in and make a start in a big city. It did not take him long to move, first to Winnipeg and then to BC.

 

My friend became one of the larger contractors in our town and a leading citizen. In the early days there were Hungarian friendship leagues across the country where emigres would gather to speak the language and I am sure help one another. My friend would have none of that. He always told me the most important thing to him was being a Canadian first. He loved Canada for the opportunity it gave him and his family. I think of him often.  

[the destroyer of worlds]

So there were plans for more.   India got some explaining to do.

 

 

https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/us-unseals-indictment-sikh-killings-1.7043428

U.S. indictment alleges multiple Indian assassination plans across North America

The indictment suggests there were plans to carry out three killings in Canadian territory

[the destroyer of worlds]

Now the ball is in Meta's court.  I wonder if they will follow, or just say no and allow tinfoil hat misinformation to fester in their dumpster fire.

 

 

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/google-online-news-act-1.7043330

Federal government reaches deal with Google on Online News Act

Agreement comes 3 weeks before Online News Act rules come into force

[Miss Korea]

12 hours ago, Elias Pettersson said:

FYI, I voted for Trudeau in 2015.  That may shock some of you.  I wanted change just as much as anyone.  So, you can't really call me a Trudeau hater.  I voted for him and had confidence he would fix things.  My confidence has been shaken and I no longer trust the Trudeau government.  As a voter, I have a right to change my mind.  I am not saying that I am a PP supporter or that he is going to fix everything.  However, I am not willing to give the Liberals another chance.  We need change.  Voters eventually get tired of every PM.  There is a shelf life for all of them.

 

And my opinion is not in the minority here.  If an election were held today, PP would win in a landslide.  So, you can't call the majority of Canadians idiots or Trudeau haters.  Simply put, we have had enough and want change.  If the Liberals are smart, they would dump Trudeau and Freeland and find someone else to lead the party.  Chretien resigned and put Paul Martin in charge and it worked.  At least for a time.  If the Liberals can find a new leader and a new voice, then people like myself might change our minds with the Liberal party.  

 

Never underestimate the political illiteracy of the average citizen.  "A person is smart.  People are dumb, panicky, dangerous animals and you know it."