Canadian Politics Thread

[Bob Long]

6 minutes ago, 4petesake said:

Once again we agree. The Indian government does not however. My point is that it’s all allowable as long as we get to decide who is a terrorist, who it’s ok to assassinate, who & when it’s fine to torture someone, etc. 

 

 

The Khalistan movement is outlawed in India and considered a national security threat by the government. A number of groups associated with the movement are listed as “terrorist organizations” under India’s Unlawful Activities (Prevention) Act (UAPA).

Nijjar’s name appears on the Home Ministry’s list of UAPA terrorists and in 2020, the Indian National Investigation Agency accused him of “trying to radicalize the Sikh community across the world in favor of the creation of ‘Khalistan,’” adding that he had been “trying to incite Sikhs to vote for secession, agitate against the government of India and carry out violent activities.”

 

OK I mean sure, as far as allowed it all comes down to what you're willing to do about it as a country. We're not going to war with India over it. 

 

But I don't buy the equivalence part. Some countries and leaders are far worse than others. The Iranian regime does so much harm in the name of repressing its own people and others,  I can't do the equivalence thing that gurn can. 

 

Canada isn't about to send in thugs to kill people in India either. I think that does set us apart. 

[4petesake]

39 minutes ago, Bob Long said:

 

Canada isn't about to send in thugs to kill people in India either. I think that does set us apart. 

 

I like that about us. I wish that I had the same confidence in our neighbours but so much depends on who the decision-makers are. 

[The Arrogant Worms]

'You knew a hit was coming': Sask. economist reacts to province's $250M deficit following forecasted $1B surplus

https://regina.ctvnews.ca/you-knew-a-hit-was-coming-sask-economist-reacts-to-province-s-250m-deficit-following-forecasted-1b-surplus-1.6671627

[5forFighting]

2 minutes ago, The Arrogant Worms said:

'You knew a hit was coming': Sask. economist reacts to province's $250M deficit following forecasted $1B surplus

https://regina.ctvnews.ca/you-knew-a-hit-was-coming-sask-economist-reacts-to-province-s-250m-deficit-following-forecasted-1b-surplus-1.6671627

There will be a bunch of these, save for maybe Alberta. 

[Bob Long]

3 minutes ago, The Arrogant Worms said:

'You knew a hit was coming': Sask. economist reacts to province's $250M deficit following forecasted $1B surplus

https://regina.ctvnews.ca/you-knew-a-hit-was-coming-sask-economist-reacts-to-province-s-250m-deficit-following-forecasted-1b-surplus-1.6671627

 

Warm up the Trudeau distraction machine.

[JoeyJoeJoeJr. Shabadoo]

1 hour ago, Bob Long said:

 

Warm up the Trudeau distraction machine.

I don't get it

[Bob Long]

1 hour ago, JoeyJoeJoeJr. Shabadoo said:

I don't get it

 

Every time Moe needs to turn the channel politically he turns to a Trudeau rant. Works great on the prairies.

[JoeyJoeJoeJr. Shabadoo]

10 minutes ago, Bob Long said:

 

Every time Moe needs to turn the channel politically he turns to a Trudeau rant. Works great on the prairies.

Ahh yes, that seems to be the conservative playbook in general these days. Considering a large portion of the deficit is due to climate disasters it might be a tough one to spin. 

[Bob Long]

20 minutes ago, JoeyJoeJoeJr. Shabadoo said:

Ahh yes, that seems to be the conservative playbook in general these days. Considering a large portion of the deficit is due to climate disasters it might be a tough one to spin. 

 

That never stopped them before.

 

Carbon tax 

[Elias Pettersson]

Conservatives, Bloc ask new Speaker to resign over tribute to interim Ontario Liberal Party leader (msn.com)

 

Conservatives, Bloc ask new Speaker to resign over tribute to interim Ontario Liberal Party leader

 

OTTAWA – The new Speaker of the House of Commons is already facing calls to resign from at least two parties almost exactly two months after being appointed to the role.

 

Greg Fergus apologized on Monday morning for recording a video tribute honouring the outgoing interim Ontario Liberal party leader John Fraser, whom he described as a longtime friend and almost as “family,” at the party’s leadership convention this past weekend.

 

Fergus told MPs he was told that his “non-political message” was intended for an “intimate gathering” for Fraser, but was not aware that it would be broadcast at the convention.

 

“However, I recognize how this may have been interpreted. I wish to apologize and to reassure members that such an event will not happen again,” he said.

 

Bloc Québécois House leader Alain Therrien said his party was willing to give Fergus the benefit of the doubt in the impartial role as Speaker, having recently served in several partisan roles including as Justin Trudeau’s parliamentary secretary, but that this video was the last straw.

 

“To act as Speaker, one needs to possess two essential qualities: impartiality and flawless judgment. Unfortunately, the current Speaker has demonstrated that he has neither of those two essential qualities. That was clear after what occurred this weekend,” said Therrien.

 

“That is why the Bloc is calling on the Speaker to resign as soon as possible.”

 

The Conservatives did not immediately call for Fergus’s resignation, opting instead to take the procedural route as they multiplied points of privilege to drag on the debate on Monday.

 

Hours later, however, Conservative House leader Andrew Scheer sided with the Bloc in calling for the Speaker to step down.

 

“It’s a difficult thing to say, especially as a former Speaker, but I do believe that this has undermined the position of the Speaker so greatly that I must add my voice and the voice of those of the official Opposition to those who have asked the Speaker to resign,” he said.

 

Scheer compared the situation to an NHL referee appearing in a locker room and giving a pep talk to one of the teams, just as the players are about to go play on the ice.

“How long do we think that NHL referee would continue in that post?”

 

Conservatives had argued earlier in the day that the events of the past weekend amounted to a breach of the impartiality of the chair, and called on a parliamentary committee to investigate.

 

New Democrats agreed to refer the matter to committee “to recommend any appropriate remedies so that this never happens again.”

 

NDP House leader Peter Julian said that even though Fergus’s apology had partly explained why his video was presented at a party convention, it was “his responsibility to ensure that the message would not be used for partisan purposes.”

 

Scheer took issue with the fact that Fergus not only participated in a partisan tribute, but did so from the Speaker’s office while wearing the Speaker’s robe.

 

“As bad as it would have been to appear at a party convention at all, it might have at least been a little bit different if he’d been introduced as a member of Hull-Aylmer in a suit or sweater while standing in front of a scenic backdrop in his riding. It wasn’t,” he said.

 

“He was standing there in the full non-partisan trapping of his non-partisan office, paying a partisan tribute to a partisan friend at a partisan event,” added Scheer.

 

Deputy Speaker Chris d’Entremont will determine whether or not the Speaker’s actions were a breach of privilege, Fergus having already said he would recuse himself from the debate.

 

In his statement, Fergus attempted to distance himself from the accusations of partisanship by saying that he was not and cannot become a member of the Ontario Liberal Party since he lives in Quebec, and that Fraser has been a personal friend for more than 30 years.

 

He said that Fraser and his wife played a significant role in his life when he moved to the Ottawa-Gatineau region, met his own spouse and started his family.

 

“In a region where we had no ties, they were our family,” said Fergus.

 

On X (formerly Twitter), Fraser thanked his “dear friend” for his video tribute last weekend and apologized for not clearly communicating to his office “where and when it would be used.”

 

“Our family deeply appreciated your very kind gesture,” he wrote on X.

 

Fergus also made the argument that politicians are also “people.”

 

“Like all of you, I have deep and abiding relationships with people of all political backgrounds. It should not be seen as partisan to recognize a colleague’s departure. It is an act of friendship and respect,” he said.

 

But the Speaker gained no sympathy from Scheer, who served in the role from 2011 to 2015.

 

“Having served in the chair, I wholeheartedly appreciate that Speakers do not arrive here through some form of Immaculate Conception,” he said. “Speakers have all been politicians before being elected to the chair.”

 

Fergus is no stranger to controversy. He came to Trudeau’s defence on many occasions, including during the “elbowgate” incident in 2016 in which Trudeau elbowed a female MP in the chest, as well as during Trudeau’s “blackface” scandal in 2019.

 

More recently, Fergus was found to have violated the Conflict of Interest Act by writing a letter of support for a multicultural television channel in its application to the CRTC for mandatory carriage while also acting as parliamentary secretary for the prime minister.

 

Fergus took on the role of Speaker after his predecessor, Anthony Rota, was forced to resign for honouring a man who fought for a Nazi unit during the Second World War.

“I cannot believe we are here again, two months after a Nazi was feted in the House,” said Conservative MP Michelle Rempel Garner.

[Bob Long]

58 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:

Conservatives, Bloc ask new Speaker to resign over tribute to interim Ontario Liberal Party leader (msn.com)

 

Conservatives, Bloc ask new Speaker to resign over tribute to interim Ontario Liberal Party leader

 

OTTAWA – The new Speaker of the House of Commons is already facing calls to resign from at least two parties almost exactly two months after being appointed to the role.

 

Greg Fergus apologized on Monday morning for recording a video tribute honouring the outgoing interim Ontario Liberal party leader John Fraser, whom he described as a longtime friend and almost as “family,” at the party’s leadership convention this past weekend.

 

Fergus told MPs he was told that his “non-political message” was intended for an “intimate gathering” for Fraser, but was not aware that it would be broadcast at the convention.

 

“However, I recognize how this may have been interpreted. I wish to apologize and to reassure members that such an event will not happen again,” he said.

 

Bloc Québécois House leader Alain Therrien said his party was willing to give Fergus the benefit of the doubt in the impartial role as Speaker, having recently served in several partisan roles including as Justin Trudeau’s parliamentary secretary, but that this video was the last straw.

 

“To act as Speaker, one needs to possess two essential qualities: impartiality and flawless judgment. Unfortunately, the current Speaker has demonstrated that he has neither of those two essential qualities. That was clear after what occurred this weekend,” said Therrien.

 

“That is why the Bloc is calling on the Speaker to resign as soon as possible.”

 

The Conservatives did not immediately call for Fergus’s resignation, opting instead to take the procedural route as they multiplied points of privilege to drag on the debate on Monday.

 

Hours later, however, Conservative House leader Andrew Scheer sided with the Bloc in calling for the Speaker to step down.

 

“It’s a difficult thing to say, especially as a former Speaker, but I do believe that this has undermined the position of the Speaker so greatly that I must add my voice and the voice of those of the official Opposition to those who have asked the Speaker to resign,” he said.

 

Scheer compared the situation to an NHL referee appearing in a locker room and giving a pep talk to one of the teams, just as the players are about to go play on the ice.

“How long do we think that NHL referee would continue in that post?”

 

Conservatives had argued earlier in the day that the events of the past weekend amounted to a breach of the impartiality of the chair, and called on a parliamentary committee to investigate.

 

New Democrats agreed to refer the matter to committee “to recommend any appropriate remedies so that this never happens again.”

 

NDP House leader Peter Julian said that even though Fergus’s apology had partly explained why his video was presented at a party convention, it was “his responsibility to ensure that the message would not be used for partisan purposes.”

 

Scheer took issue with the fact that Fergus not only participated in a partisan tribute, but did so from the Speaker’s office while wearing the Speaker’s robe.

 

“As bad as it would have been to appear at a party convention at all, it might have at least been a little bit different if he’d been introduced as a member of Hull-Aylmer in a suit or sweater while standing in front of a scenic backdrop in his riding. It wasn’t,” he said.

 

“He was standing there in the full non-partisan trapping of his non-partisan office, paying a partisan tribute to a partisan friend at a partisan event,” added Scheer.

 

Deputy Speaker Chris d’Entremont will determine whether or not the Speaker’s actions were a breach of privilege, Fergus having already said he would recuse himself from the debate.

 

In his statement, Fergus attempted to distance himself from the accusations of partisanship by saying that he was not and cannot become a member of the Ontario Liberal Party since he lives in Quebec, and that Fraser has been a personal friend for more than 30 years.

 

He said that Fraser and his wife played a significant role in his life when he moved to the Ottawa-Gatineau region, met his own spouse and started his family.

 

“In a region where we had no ties, they were our family,” said Fergus.

 

On X (formerly Twitter), Fraser thanked his “dear friend” for his video tribute last weekend and apologized for not clearly communicating to his office “where and when it would be used.”

 

“Our family deeply appreciated your very kind gesture,” he wrote on X.

 

Fergus also made the argument that politicians are also “people.”

 

“Like all of you, I have deep and abiding relationships with people of all political backgrounds. It should not be seen as partisan to recognize a colleague’s departure. It is an act of friendship and respect,” he said.

 

But the Speaker gained no sympathy from Scheer, who served in the role from 2011 to 2015.

 

“Having served in the chair, I wholeheartedly appreciate that Speakers do not arrive here through some form of Immaculate Conception,” he said. “Speakers have all been politicians before being elected to the chair.”

 

Fergus is no stranger to controversy. He came to Trudeau’s defence on many occasions, including during the “elbowgate” incident in 2016 in which Trudeau elbowed a female MP in the chest, as well as during Trudeau’s “blackface” scandal in 2019.

 

More recently, Fergus was found to have violated the Conflict of Interest Act by writing a letter of support for a multicultural television channel in its application to the CRTC for mandatory carriage while also acting as parliamentary secretary for the prime minister.

 

Fergus took on the role of Speaker after his predecessor, Anthony Rota, was forced to resign for honouring a man who fought for a Nazi unit during the Second World War.

“I cannot believe we are here again, two months after a Nazi was feted in the House,” said Conservative MP Michelle Rempel Garner.

 

It's hilarious what is considered controversial in Canadian politics.

[Elias Pettersson]

6 minutes ago, Bob Long said:

 

It's hilarious what is considered controversial in Canadian politics.

 

“To act as Speaker, one needs to possess two essential qualities: impartiality and flawless judgment."

 

Seems like this guy and the last guy don't really understand these basic concepts...

[Bob Long]

Just now, Elias Pettersson said:

 

“To act as Speaker, one needs to possess two essential qualities: impartiality and flawless judgment."

 

Seems like this guy and the last guy don't really understand these basic concepts...

 

People don't show to the job with no history out of thin air. 

 

So he made a congratulatory video for a former colleague? Who gives a shit?

 

[RupertKBD]

3 hours ago, Elias Pettersson said:

“To act as Speaker, one needs to possess two essential qualities: impartiality and flawless judgment."

 

Seems like this guy and the last guy don't really understand these basic concepts...

 

Yes, lets all pretend we GAF about the Speaker.....just so long as he's part of the party we don't like.

Edited December 5, 2023 by RupertKBD

[Bob Long]

6 minutes ago, RupertKBD said:

 

Yes, lets all pretend we GAF about the Speaker.....just so long as he's part of the party we don't like.

 

But mostly ceremonial positions are so important.

 

PP just wanted the headline and the media gave him one.

[aGENT]

5 hours ago, Elias Pettersson said:

Conservatives, Bloc ask new Speaker to resign over tribute to interim Ontario Liberal Party leader (msn.com)

 

Conservatives, Bloc ask new Speaker to resign over tribute to interim Ontario Liberal Party leader

 

OTTAWA – The new Speaker of the House of Commons is already facing calls to resign from at least two parties almost exactly two months after being appointed to the role.

 

Greg Fergus apologized on Monday morning for recording a video tribute honouring the outgoing interim Ontario Liberal party leader John Fraser, whom he described as a longtime friend and almost as “family,” at the party’s leadership convention this past weekend.

 

Fergus told MPs he was told that his “non-political message” was intended for an “intimate gathering” for Fraser, but was not aware that it would be broadcast at the convention.

 

“However, I recognize how this may have been interpreted. I wish to apologize and to reassure members that such an event will not happen again,” he said.

 

Bloc Québécois House leader Alain Therrien said his party was willing to give Fergus the benefit of the doubt in the impartial role as Speaker, having recently served in several partisan roles including as Justin Trudeau’s parliamentary secretary, but that this video was the last straw.

 

“To act as Speaker, one needs to possess two essential qualities: impartiality and flawless judgment. Unfortunately, the current Speaker has demonstrated that he has neither of those two essential qualities. That was clear after what occurred this weekend,” said Therrien.

 

“That is why the Bloc is calling on the Speaker to resign as soon as possible.”

 

The Conservatives did not immediately call for Fergus’s resignation, opting instead to take the procedural route as they multiplied points of privilege to drag on the debate on Monday.

 

Hours later, however, Conservative House leader Andrew Scheer sided with the Bloc in calling for the Speaker to step down.

 

“It’s a difficult thing to say, especially as a former Speaker, but I do believe that this has undermined the position of the Speaker so greatly that I must add my voice and the voice of those of the official Opposition to those who have asked the Speaker to resign,” he said.

 

Scheer compared the situation to an NHL referee appearing in a locker room and giving a pep talk to one of the teams, just as the players are about to go play on the ice.

“How long do we think that NHL referee would continue in that post?”

 

Conservatives had argued earlier in the day that the events of the past weekend amounted to a breach of the impartiality of the chair, and called on a parliamentary committee to investigate.

 

New Democrats agreed to refer the matter to committee “to recommend any appropriate remedies so that this never happens again.”

 

NDP House leader Peter Julian said that even though Fergus’s apology had partly explained why his video was presented at a party convention, it was “his responsibility to ensure that the message would not be used for partisan purposes.”

 

Scheer took issue with the fact that Fergus not only participated in a partisan tribute, but did so from the Speaker’s office while wearing the Speaker’s robe.

 

“As bad as it would have been to appear at a party convention at all, it might have at least been a little bit different if he’d been introduced as a member of Hull-Aylmer in a suit or sweater while standing in front of a scenic backdrop in his riding. It wasn’t,” he said.

 

“He was standing there in the full non-partisan trapping of his non-partisan office, paying a partisan tribute to a partisan friend at a partisan event,” added Scheer.

 

Deputy Speaker Chris d’Entremont will determine whether or not the Speaker’s actions were a breach of privilege, Fergus having already said he would recuse himself from the debate.

 

In his statement, Fergus attempted to distance himself from the accusations of partisanship by saying that he was not and cannot become a member of the Ontario Liberal Party since he lives in Quebec, and that Fraser has been a personal friend for more than 30 years.

 

He said that Fraser and his wife played a significant role in his life when he moved to the Ottawa-Gatineau region, met his own spouse and started his family.

 

“In a region where we had no ties, they were our family,” said Fergus.

 

On X (formerly Twitter), Fraser thanked his “dear friend” for his video tribute last weekend and apologized for not clearly communicating to his office “where and when it would be used.”

 

“Our family deeply appreciated your very kind gesture,” he wrote on X.

 

Fergus also made the argument that politicians are also “people.”

 

“Like all of you, I have deep and abiding relationships with people of all political backgrounds. It should not be seen as partisan to recognize a colleague’s departure. It is an act of friendship and respect,” he said.

 

But the Speaker gained no sympathy from Scheer, who served in the role from 2011 to 2015.

 

“Having served in the chair, I wholeheartedly appreciate that Speakers do not arrive here through some form of Immaculate Conception,” he said. “Speakers have all been politicians before being elected to the chair.”

 

Fergus is no stranger to controversy. He came to Trudeau’s defence on many occasions, including during the “elbowgate” incident in 2016 in which Trudeau elbowed a female MP in the chest, as well as during Trudeau’s “blackface” scandal in 2019.

 

More recently, Fergus was found to have violated the Conflict of Interest Act by writing a letter of support for a multicultural television channel in its application to the CRTC for mandatory carriage while also acting as parliamentary secretary for the prime minister.

 

Fergus took on the role of Speaker after his predecessor, Anthony Rota, was forced to resign for honouring a man who fought for a Nazi unit during the Second World War.

“I cannot believe we are here again, two months after a Nazi was feted in the House,” said Conservative MP Michelle Rempel Garner.

 

 

[RupertKBD]

I realize this is a CBC article and their salaries are paid by Justin Trudeau personally, but it offers some perspective on the Carbon Tax:

 

https://www.msn.com/en-ca/money/topstories/if-canada-axed-its-carbon-tax-and-rebates-this-is-how-different-households-would-gain-or-lose/ar-AA1l1e0u?ocid=hpmsn&cvid=08d57da153954360b709bead32d2d85e&ei=42

 

Quote

 

As it stands, there is some minor variation from province to province, but Tombe says the general trend is the same: "A clear majority of households do receive rebates that are larger than the carbon taxes they pay for."

One thing that sets households apart, however, is their income level.

"If we got rid of the carbon tax and the rebate," Tombe said, "then this would harm a much larger fraction of lower- and middle-income households than it would higher-income households." 

 

 

[bishopshodan]

I gotta say. 

 

PP is making me consider voting Lib for the second time ever. For a moment after the last election I thought, maybe, just maybe the cons can get their shit together and I would consider them....but no.

 

Just too much of a USA type, hater, dickwad, of a leader.

 

 

[aGENT]

2 hours ago, RupertKBD said:

I realize this is a CBC article and their salaries are paid by Justin Trudeau personally, but it offers some perspective on the Carbon Tax:

 

https://www.msn.com/en-ca/money/topstories/if-canada-axed-its-carbon-tax-and-rebates-this-is-how-different-households-would-gain-or-lose/ar-AA1l1e0u?ocid=hpmsn&cvid=08d57da153954360b709bead32d2d85e&ei=42

 

 

 

Once again the rich trying to use the media to dupe the gullible in to lowering taxes for the wealthy...I can't believe people fall for this crap 

Edited December 5, 2023 by aGENT

[RupertKBD]

3 minutes ago, aGENT said:

Once again the rich trying to use the media to dupe the gullible in to lowering taxes for the wealthy...I can't believe people fall for this crap 

 

Campaigning against any tax is one of the cheapest and easiest ways for a politician to drum up outrage. People see the word "tax" and automatically assume it's a bad thing without taking the time to learn what it's for and what the long term effects it will have.

 

It's much the same as the HST, which was one of the worst self-inflicted blunders BC taxpayers have ever made. It took me years to stop blaming the NDP (who actively campaigned against it in my area of the province) for it's part in killing what would have been in the best interests of BC taxpayers...

 

Instead, we listened to Bill Fucking Vander Zalm....

[bishopshodan]

42 minutes ago, RupertKBD said:

 

Campaigning against any tax is one of the cheapest and easiest ways for a politician to drum up outrage. People see the word "tax" and automatically assume it's a bad thing without taking the time to learn what it's for and what the long term effects it will have.

 

It's much the same as the HST, which was one of the worst self-inflicted blunders BC taxpayers have ever made. It took me years to stop blaming the NDP (who actively campaigned against it in my area of the province) for it's part in killing what would have been in the best interests of BC taxpayers...

 

Instead, we listened to Bill Fucking Vander Zalm....

 

You could blame the Liberals at the time. It was mismanaged.

They brought it in fast and furious without getting a sense from the public. That's how Bill drummed up support. People felt it was rammed down their throat. 

 

[RupertKBD]

17 minutes ago, bishopshodan said:

You could blame the Liberals at the time. It was mismanaged.

They brought it in fast and furious without getting a sense from the public. That's how Bill drummed up support. People felt it was rammed down their throat.

 

I remember hearing a lot of that sentiment at the time. I disagreed then and I disagree now. I managed to find out what it was about easily enough. If others didn't, that's on them. Something as important as tax reform shouldn't be something you vote on, without knowing something about it.

[bishopshodan]

2 minutes ago, RupertKBD said:

 

I remember hearing a lot of that sentiment at the time. I disagreed then and I disagree now. I managed to find out what it was about easily enough. If others didn't, that's on them. Something as important as tax reform shouldn't be something you vote on, without knowing something about it.

I remember a lot of people saying something like ' they rammed it down our throats' blah blah.

I was reading this to refresh my memory. The voters were informed. They didn't like the way it was done and Bill got them lathered up. . 

 

https://policyoptions.irpp.org/magazines/continuity-and-change-in-the-provinces/the-british-columbia-hst-debacle/

Voters themselves proved to be remarkably informed and interested. A debate that the government and its supporters did not want took place with results that they did not predict. In the end the government and its supporters were out smarted and out organized by highly motivated opponents.

[RupertKBD]

2 minutes ago, bishopshodan said:

I remember a lot of people saying something like ' they rammed it down our throats' blah blah.

I was reading this to refresh my memory. The voters were informed. They didn't like the way it was done and Bill got them lathered up. . 

 

https://policyoptions.irpp.org/magazines/continuity-and-change-in-the-provinces/the-british-columbia-hst-debacle/

Voters themselves proved to be remarkably informed and interested. A debate that the government and its supporters did not want took place with results that they did not predict. In the end the government and its supporters were out smarted and out organized by highly motivated opponents.

 

Okay, so I'm trying to figure this out....you (and the article) are saying that the public knew it was good for them, but voted against it anyway, because they didn't like the way it was presented?

 

.....and this was the Liberals' fault?

[bishopshodan]

1 minute ago, RupertKBD said:

 

Okay, so I'm trying to figure this out....you (and the article) are saying that the public knew it was good for them, but voted against it anyway, because they didn't like the way it was presented?

 

.....and this was the Liberals' fault?

I didn't actaully say it was their fault.

 

I was saying 'you' could blame them,...for mismangement. They were the gov at the time and they didnt read the public well. Bill did. You can for sure blame him too , as you did. 

 

Those to 'blame' are the public. We run things. And yes, they did it because of the way it was presented. Cut off the nose to spite the face