Canadian Politics Thread

[RupertKBD]

2 minutes ago, bishopshodan said:

I didn't actaully say it was their fault.

 

I was saying 'you' could blame them,...for mismangement. They were the gov at the time and they didnt read the public well. Bill did. You can for sure blame him too , as you did. 

 

Those to 'blame' are the public. We run things. And yes, they did it because of the way it was presented. Cut off the nose to spite the face

 

I know it's anecdotal (and as such not worth much) but I remember hearing over and over "Gordon Campbell lied about the HST", which was blatantly false.

 

That's why the whole backlash on "how it was handled" is so infuriating to me.

[bishopshodan]

1 minute ago, RupertKBD said:

 

I know it's anecdotal (and as such not worth much) but I remember hearing over and over "Gordon Campbell lied about the HST", which was blatantly false.

 

That's why the whole backlash on "how it was handled" is so infuriating to me.

Man, I hear you.

 

Just remembering along with you ... there was a real sense of 'we the (dumb) people, will not stand for this!' 

 

There is something cool about the masses coming out to make change, but the masses got it wrong that time. 

 

 

[RupertKBD]

4 minutes ago, bishopshodan said:

Man, I hear you.

 

Just remembering along with you ... there was a real sense of 'we the (dumb) people, will not stand for this!' 

 

There is something cool about the masses coming out to make change, but the masses got it wrong that time.

 

And cost us billions in the process.

 

One thing that really made me shake my head was BVZ's whining in the media after the vote about the Feds saying they wanted their money back. Like he didn't understand how a deal works.

[aGENT]

1 hour ago, RupertKBD said:

 

Campaigning against any tax is one of the cheapest and easiest ways for a politician to drum up outrage. People see the word "tax" and automatically assume it's a bad thing without taking the time to learn what it's for and what the long term effects it will have.

 

It's much the same as the HST, which was one of the worst self-inflicted blunders BC taxpayers have ever made. It took me years to stop blaming the NDP (who actively campaigned against it in my area of the province) for it's part in killing what would have been in the best interests of BC taxpayers...

 

Instead, we listened to Bill Fucking Vander Zalm....

 

DON'T REMIND ME 

 

[RupertKBD]

Just now, aGENT said:

 

DON'T REMIND ME 

 

 

I gave you a "cheers" reaction, so you can use it to put out the fire....or drink it to dull the sensation....

[aGENT]

24 minutes ago, bishopshodan said:

Man, I hear you.

 

Just remembering along with you ... there was a real sense of 'we the (dumb) people, will not stand for this!' 

 

There is something cool about the masses coming out to make change, but the masses got it wrong that time. 

 

 

 

See, this is what i hate about politics. People are too damn reactionary and emotional (and frequently ill informed) when voting. You don't like how the Liberals do things (easy enough to agree with), then next election, don't vote for them. Until then, feel free to send them all the emails, letters etc you like voicing your displeasure at them and the way they conducted business. Hold rallies etc...Fill your f'ing boots. What you don't do, is vote against better tax laws that will save you billions of dollars to "make a statement". How FUCKING DUMB.

[The Arrogant Worms]

 

[6of1_halfdozenofother]

A different angle of Canadian politics (ie. not the partisan tripe of which party can ruin our country faster)

Quote

Taiwan-Canada ties surge as supporters tout trade, politics and shared values

 

Children wave Taiwan's national flags during National Day celebrations in front of the Presidential Building in Taipei, Taiwan, Tuesday, Oct. 10, 2023. (AP Photo/Chiang Ying-ying)

   

By Chuck Chiang, The Canadian Press

Posted December 9, 2023 1:00 am.

Last Updated December 9, 2023 8:25 am.

 

Somewhere at the confluence of politics, commerce and shared values driving a recent wave of Canadian fascination with Taiwan, there were the island’s “freedom pineapples.”

 

In 2021, imports of the fruit enjoyed a spike in interest internationally when China banned them from its market.

 

Taiwan’s Foreign Ministry urged “like-minded friends” around the world to stand up to China by buying “freedom pineapples,” and the phenomenon took off.

 

At Kuohua Trading Co., a Taiwanese supermarket in Richmond, B.C., a member of the sales staff said on Friday that while they only imported a small number of pineapples during the campaign, they sold quickly and created word-of-mouth advertising on social media. 

 

“Word spreads quickly online,” she said. 

 

Overall Canadian trade with Taiwan is up sharply. There has also been a spate of visits by Canadian politicians, despite a lack of formal diplomatic relations. 

 

Canada-China ties might be chilly, but Taiwan — which split from mainland China amid a civil war in 1949 — is hot right now.

 

Lihsin Angel Liu, director-general of the Taipei Economic and Cultural Office in Vancouver and Taiwan’s main representative in Western Canada, said part of that is “sympathy” since Russia’s invasion of Ukraine.

 

She said she had seen more willingness from Canadian officials to engage Taiwan since the pandemic — albeit with the One China Policy as a guiding framework. The policy dating back to 1970 recognizes the People’s Republic as the sole legitimate government of China, but doesn’t endorse or challenge its positions on Taiwan.

 

The Communist government of China regards Taiwan as a renegade province.

 

“My experience … is that anything I do involves the China factor,” Liu said. “So international participation, Canada-Taiwan relations, provincial level, federal level, Canadians do care about their relationship with China, especially the PRC authority. 

 

“However, because of the Ukrainian war, I think we have earned a lot of sympathy, and we have earned a lot of support from the European countries as well as from Canadian government. Our bilateral ties (are) progressing in a very flexible way, in a very tangible way that we see as a positive direction to push forward.”

 

In October, Canada and Taiwan completed negotiations of a foreign investment promotion and protection arrangement, or FIPA, a major bilateral deal that’s expected to spur more economic links.

 

Canada’s trade with Taiwan has already ballooned in recent years. According to Statistics Canada, Canadian exports to Taiwan have grown 53 per cent from $1.7 billion in 2017 to $2.6 billion last year. 

 

Canadian imports from Taiwan, meanwhile, are up 76 per cent from $5.4 billion in 2017 to $9.5 billion in 2022.

 

The Canadian International Council think tank holds regular discussions on foreign topics among its 18 branches.

 

The most popular subjects this year have been Russia-Ukraine with 13 discussions, and the United States with 11. 

 

But outpacing heavy hitters such as China (two) and India (four) was Taiwan, which took centre stage at seven sessions.

 

Chris Kilford, president of the think tank’s Victoria branch, said Canadian interest in the self-governing island has risen recently. 

 

He said that’s partly due to speculation about China’s intentions in the wake of Russia’s invasion of Ukraine.

 

“Once we saw the invasion take place in February of 2022, in the media especially people began to wonder if China might attempt to invade Taiwan,” Kilford said. 

 

“So naturally amongst our members and within the Canadian public, there were a lot of questions about this.”

 

Since October 2022, four groups of Canadian parliamentarians have visited Taiwan’s political leaders — including three this year. There were no documented parliamentary visits in 2019 and one in 2018.

 

There haven’t been any Canadian parliamentarian visits to China since the pandemic, according to activities recorded by the Canada-China Legislative Association. When federal Environment Minister Steven Guilbeault visited Beijing this year, it was Canada’s first ministerial visit since 2019.

Those numbers are not coincidental, said Hugh Stephens, who is a distinguished fellow of the Asia Pacific Foundation of Canada.

 

“It’s not that relations with Taiwan improve as relations with China decline,” Stephens said. 

 

“It’s not a direct inverse relationship, but we all have to admit that there is a factor there. 

 

“So the fact that Canada-China relations are, I guess you could probably call them in the deep freeze, that provides a little more headroom, perhaps a little more policy space to not be quite so concerned about Beijing’s reaction as long as we stay within the confines of the (One China Policy).”

 

In a March report in the House of Commons, the special committee on the Canada-PRC relationship recommended a number of steps in Ottawa’s engagement with Taiwan, including “encouraging visits by parliamentary delegations” and exploring “opportunities to collaborate with Taiwan’s semiconductor industry to enhance innovation in Canada.”

 

On the military front, a Canadian frigate this year accompanied U.S. naval vessels sailing through the Taiwan Strait on multiple occasions, the latest in November.

 

Last year, Canada launched its Indo-Pacific Strategy as a “comprehensive road map” of future engagement in Asia. It mentioned Taiwan seven times, in topics such as Indigenous reconciliation and economic co-operation, and the Taiwan Strait a further three times.

 

“That’s pretty unusual because generally, we tended to do our deals with Taiwan but not make too much fuss about it, to do it quietly,” Stephens said. “There’s no attempt to hide our interest in Taiwan (in the strategy).”

 

Taiwanese tycoon Nelson Chang was in Maple Ridge, B.C., last month to announce a new billion-dollar lithium-ion battery factory.

 

Prime Minister Justin Trudeau and federal Innovation Minister François-Philippe Champagne were by his side.

 

While Chang didn’t mention geopolitics or China during his speech, he did emphasize shared values as one of the key reasons his company, E-One Moli Energy, decided to expand in Canada.

 

“We believe that human freedom is a chance for us to do good for others and appreciating life’s fleeting nature, to leave a positive impact on the world,” Chang said.

 

“Despite the challenges we face today, we have the power to choose a path that will lead to a better future.”

 

Liu said the E-One Moli announcement received significant attention in Taiwan, and hopes it inspires others in the green energy sector to explore working with Canada.

 

“The world economy is turning from globalization to friend-shoring, near-shoring or just to do business with the countries you share the same values with,” she said. “So Canada is doing (it) the same way.”

 

But challenges remain for Taiwan on the international stage.

 

The island has been unsuccessful gaining admission to groupings such as the Trans-Pacific Partnership trade bloc and the World Health Organization.

 

Liu said her recent visit to Prairie provinces confirmed that many Canadians still view Taiwan through the lens of China and its immense economic influence.

 

“I talked to one of the mainstream media representatives (there), and he admitted … people in the Prairie provinces probably pay less attention except when it’s related to their canola exports to China, because it’s related to their daily lives, their income, their revenue,” Liu said.

 

Taiwan is Canada’s 12th largest trade partner with total trade in 2022 reaching $12 billion, while trade with China — Canada’s second largest partner — accounted for $129 billion in the same time period.

 

Stephens said it’s likely the Canada-Taiwan equation will always involve calculations about China, and ties between Ottawa and Beijing won’t always be so chilly. Relations were driven down by the arrest of Meng Wanzhou in Vancouver in 2018 and Beijing’s subsequent arrests of Michael Kovrig and Michael Spavor.

 

However, Stephens said there was “no going back” on the new wave of engagement with Taiwan — as long at it stays within the flexible ambiguity of the One China Policy.

 

“It’s filling up the vacant policy space at a time when it’s perhaps a little bit easier to do because of the coolness of Canada-China relations,” he said.

 

“Once that policy space has been filled up and Canada-China relations resume their pace, I don’t see a rolling back. It has to be a new accommodation to those realities.”

 

https://vancouver.citynews.ca/2023/12/09/taiwan-canada-ties-politics-values/

 

The best way to show that the country supports democratic values is to increase trade with like-minded countries and reduce trade with authoritarian states.

[the destroyer of worlds]

Trudope sucks.  Or so I hear from all the folks with F Trudeau stickers.  

 

Meanwhile the CON leaders skip town on votes that were forced by...checks notes...the conservatives. 

 

They were the ones forcing the votes, but couldn't stick around to see it out.

 

Yes, I'm aware JT others left at times, but this was all a CON stunt.

 

 

 

 

[aGENT]

I'm starting to think that if Canadians actually want to vote for REAL change, we have to vote a third party in to (minority) power. Repeating the same cycle of going from medium-bad Liberal run governments to even worse Conservative ones, like we've been doing for decades, is NOT the answer we're looking for.

 

Given the Bloc isn't a feasible option for most of the country, that probably leaves the NDP as our best option (unless that startup centrist party picks up enough steam/support). I'm not a big Singh fan, and I'm sure many of you will: "but their platform is unrealistic/will bankrupt us!" (I don't entirely disagree) but that's not really the point. As a minority government, they'd have very little chance of doing any actual, major, structural damage. What electing them will do though is both force the other two parties to work with them AND ideally make it quite clear that Canadians are tired of their collective fucking around with our country, it's resources, our jobs and our tax dollars. Especially all the partisan, smarmy, side show garbage.  Maybe we even get some election reform (ranked ballot) out of it too!

 

[Bob Long]

5 minutes ago, aGENT said:

I'm starting to think that if Canadians actually want to vote for REAL change, we have to vote a third party in to (minority) power. Repeating the same cycle of going from medium-bad Liberal run governments to even worse Conservative ones, like we've been doing for decades, is NOT the answer we're looking for.

 

Given the Bloc isn't a feasible option for most of the country, that probably leaves the NDP as our best option (unless that startup centrist party picks up enough steam/support). I'm not a big Singh fan, and I'm sure many of you will: "but their platform is unrealistic/will bankrupt us!" (I don't entirely disagree) but that's not really the point. As a minority government, they'd have very little chance of doing any actual, major, structural damage. What electing them will do though is both force the other two parties to work with them AND ideally make it quite clear that Canadians are tired of their collective fucking around with our country, it's resources, our jobs and our tax dollars. Especially all the partisan, smarmy, side show garbage.  Maybe we even get some election reform (ranked ballot) out of it too!

 

 

Give me a reason to think they would be better, not just different.

[The Arrogant Worms]

[Wiggums]

56 minutes ago, The Arrogant Worms said:

 

Kind of a weird thing to post considering we're headed for a recession under Trudeau 

[D.B Cooper]

1 hour ago, aGENT said:

I'm starting to think that if Canadians actually want to vote for REAL change, we have to vote a third party in to (minority) power. Repeating the same cycle of going from medium-bad Liberal run governments to even worse Conservative ones, like we've been doing for decades, is NOT the answer we're looking for.

 

Given the Bloc isn't a feasible option for most of the country, that probably leaves the NDP as our best option (unless that startup centrist party picks up enough steam/support). I'm not a big Singh fan, and I'm sure many of you will: "but their platform is unrealistic/will bankrupt us!" (I don't entirely disagree) but that's not really the point. As a minority government, they'd have very little chance of doing any actual, major, structural damage. What electing them will do though is both force the other two parties to work with them AND ideally make it quite clear that Canadians are tired of their collective fucking around with our country, it's resources, our jobs and our tax dollars. Especially all the partisan, smarmy, side show garbage.  Maybe we even get some election reform (ranked ballot) out of it too!

 

I’m willing to listen to a centrist party, 
NDP won’t be getting my vote though. 

Im stuck in a bad spot.  
I side liberal for the most part, but can’t stand Trudeau. 
Cons are pooh.  
NDP……..   lol.  
I spent a bit of time on the centrist website and for some reason I couldn’t shake the churchy/cult vibe.  
Also, it just doesn’t look up to snuff. 
One of the youth coordinators looks like a straight sex offender.  
Unfortunately, it just doesn’t seem very serious. 

[King Heffy]

28 minutes ago, Wiggums said:

 

Kind of a weird thing to post considering we're headed for a recession under Trudeau 

Pretty reasonable considering Poilivre clearly has a poor understanding of the economy, as demonstrated by the bitcoin fiasco, in addition to the barbaric social policies he wants to implement.  Electing neo-Nazi vermin because of a global recession due to a pandemic is not a constructive solution.  Nothing weird about calling him out and pointing out that allowing him to run the country is simply not acceptable.

[aGENT]

2 hours ago, Bob Long said:

 

Give me a reason to think they would be better, not just different.

That's not an option with any party sadly. though I do think they could get some things done (like election reform) that would bennefit Canadians long term.

Edited December 12, 2023 by aGENT

[The Arrogant Worms]

47 minutes ago, Wiggums said:

 

Kind of a weird thing to post considering we're headed for a recession under Trudeau 

So you invested all your money in crypto?

[aGENT]

51 minutes ago, Wiggums said:

 

Kind of a weird thing to post considering we're headed for a recession under Trudeau 

 

Pretty sure that's what the BOC intended with all those interest rate hikes. Not really a function of Trudeau or the Liberals.

[aGENT]

41 minutes ago, D.B Cooper said:

I’m willing to listen to a centrist party, 
NDP won’t be getting my vote though. 

Im stuck in a bad spot.  
I side liberal for the most part, but can’t stand Trudeau. 
Cons are pooh.  
NDP……..   lol.  
I spent a bit of time on the centrist website and for some reason I couldn’t shake the churchy/cult vibe.  
Also, it just doesn’t look up to snuff. 
One of the youth coordinators looks like a straight sex offender.  
Unfortunately, it just doesn’t seem very serious. 

 

I hear ya...I'm dreading the next election. What a collective pile of feces for voters to choose from. I'm just trying to figure out a better outcome than the usual Lib-Con, bad to worse, see saw Canadians seem to love.

 

Edited December 12, 2023 by aGENT

[D.B Cooper]

7 minutes ago, aGENT said:

 

I hear ya...I'm dreading the next election. What a collective pile of feces for voters to choose from. I'm just trying to figure out a better outcome than the usual Lib-Con, bad to worse, see saw Canadians seem to love.

 

We just kind of go along with what big o’Ontario votes in anyway.  
Vote, don’t vote, vote for some French guy.   It doesn’t matter 

[Bob Long]

1 hour ago, aGENT said:

That's not an option with any party sadly. though I do think they could get some things done (like election reform) that would bennefit Canadians long term.

 

I'd argue the NDP has a better chance now. Give Trudeau an ultimatum on it. 

[UnkNuk]

3 hours ago, The Arrogant Worms said:

 

We might have to put that meme away for a while.

 

Poilievre made his comment about Bitcoin in March 2022 when Bitcoin was around $47,000.

 

Granted, it crashed soon after but has since rebounded to $41,000 currently.  It's quite possible that it will pass that $47,000 mark.     

[Johngould21]

15 hours ago, aGENT said:

That's not an option with any party sadly. though I do think they could get some things done (like election reform) that would bennefit Canadians long term.

Agree!

[Johngould21]

17 hours ago, Bob Long said:

 

I'd argue the NDP has a better chance now. Give Trudeau an ultimatum on it. 

Getting Trudeau to make Dental a National option for people is something the NDP has been after for years, as was Universal Medicare. Minority governments actually work much better than a majority government does in my opinion. That batshit crazy on the Conservative side of the aisle isn't something I want to see Canada turn into.

[King Heffy]

1 minute ago, Johngould21 said:

Getting Trudeau to make Dental a National option for people is something the NDP has been after for years, as was Universal Medicare. Minority governments actually work much better than a majority government does in my opinion. That batshit crazy on the Conservative side of the aisle isn't something I want to see Canada turn into.

Minority governments, by their very nature, give more Canadians a voice.  Part of why I want electoral reform is because I'd prefer minority governments to become the norm.