Canadian Politics Thread

[aGENT]

1 hour ago, RupertKBD said:

 

Do you tell them not to let the door hit them in the ass on the way out?

Nope... Just politely nod and smile lol

Edited December 20, 2023 by aGENT

[RupertKBD]

18 minutes ago, aGENT said:

Nope... Just politely nod and smile lol

 

You're a better man than me....

 

....but we already knew that.

[Elias Pettersson]

8 hours ago, aGENT said:

I'll just leave this here...

 

https://www.reuters.com/markets/rates-bonds/canadas-inflation-rate-unexpectedly-holds-31-november-2023-12-19/

 

A nearly 30% increase in mortgage interest costs and a 7.4% rise in rent were two of the largest contributors to the annual inflation rate, Statscan said.

 

 

 

Where's the link where it says increase in rents are directly tied to mortgage interest rates?  I'll wait...   

[Elias Pettersson]

11 hours ago, Sharpshooter said:

Canada as a whole needed an influx of population in order to keep the economy growing/afloat. 
 

That was the impetus of importing new immigrants. 
 

However, it’s not the immigrants fault. 
 

It’s the fault of the Federal government and Provincial governments for not keeping up with basic infrastructure like Housing, Schools and Hospitals, to name a few. 
 

Now, it’s going to hurt all of us, to play catch-up. 

 

Bingo, bango, bongo, his name is Roberto Luongo...

 

It's nice for the government to let all these immigrants in, would have been much nicer if they actually had had a plan beforehand on where to actually house them.  

 

Hey, let's let everyone into the country, it's going to help with the economy.  Where will they all live?  Don't worry, we'll figure that out later.  $2600 for a one bedroom isn't that expensive, is it?

[Elias Pettersson]

LILLEY: Canada has added more than 1 million people and counting in 2023, it’s unsustainable (msn.com)

 

LILLEY: Canada has added more than 1 million people and counting in 2023, it’s unsustainable

 

The quarterly population estimate released by Statistics Canada should be sobering for Canada’s political class.

 

We are on track to add between 1.2 and 1.5 million new people by the end of this year. The real-time population clock , as I write this at noon on Tuesday, has our population at 40,720,342 with more than 1,400 new people having arrived in Canada since midnight.

 

But as we add this massive number of people, we aren’t keeping up with the required housing, infrastructure or health-care resources to match the population.

 

Just last week, the Canada Mortgage and Housing Corporation announced housing starts were down 22% across the country in November — but Montreal was down 30% while Toronto and Vancouver were down 39% each. Nothing like solving the housing crisis by bringing in far more people while building fewer homes for people to live in.

 

On the jobs front, StatsCan has been warning for months that population growth was rising faster than employment growth. In November, that was a factor in the unemployment rate increasing to 5.8% , a trend that started in April when unemployment stood at 5% .

 

To put this population growth in perspective, Canada’s population increased more in the third quarter of 2023 than any quarter since 1957. So far this year, we have taken in more people that in any year since Confederation in 1867.

 

And it is immigration that is driving the population increase with 96% of the growth, or about 990,000, coming from immigration. Back in 1957, we had high immigration levels but we were also in the middle of a baby boom — we definitely aren’t anymore.

 

Most of the growth in the last quarter wasn’t even permanent residents with just 107,972 people coming in that category. Instead, the bulk of the growth, some 73% of the total, came from 312,578 temporary workers and students arriving in that time frame.

 

This is not a sustainable system and needs to be fixed.

 

Consider that so far this year, our population has essentially added another Ottawa-Gatineau region to our country with none of the infrastructure that goes with that million-plus population. By the end of the year that increase in population will be equal to another Calgary but, again, with none of the infrastructure.

 

The Trudeau Liberals have allowed the immigration file to get out of hand, helping to fuel the housing crisis, while their policies, like the Impact Assessment Act, stop or delay needed projects from going ahead. At a time when we need to be building, the Trudeau Liberals have fought highways, housing projects, power plants and more.

 

You can’t add that many people without adding the infrastructure or cracks will begin to show in the system. We already have seen the impact of immigration on housing prices in key areas like Toronto and Vancouver but we are seeing an increased strain on our health system as well with people unable to access care.

 

The mismanagement of this file brought about something I never thought I’d see — the Liberals broke the trust Canadians had in our system. For years there was a general consensus supporting high immigration levels based on a well-managed and fair system.

 

As we’ve seen with recent polling, Canadians are questioning the system now.

 

Unless the government gets a handle on this file, expect the questioning to turn hostile and support to fade away.

 

[bishopshodan]

11 hours ago, RupertKBD said:

 

Do you tell them not to let the door hit them in the ass on the way out?

I do Rup.

 

Worked with a few guys...and some clients that were dissing BC and talking about moving to Alberta.

I laugh hard and tell them to bounce. No problem at all doing it because I truly think BC is the best place on earth. 

Edited December 20, 2023 by bishopshodan

[Boudrias]

3 hours ago, Elias Pettersson said:

 

Bingo, bango, bongo, his name is Roberto Luongo...

 

It's nice for the government to let all these immigrants in, would have been much nicer if they actually had had a plan beforehand on where to actually house them.  

 

Hey, let's let everyone into the country, it's going to help with the economy.  Where will they all live?  Don't worry, we'll figure that out later.  $2600 for a one bedroom isn't that expensive, is it?

I don't disagree with the Trudeau plan for increased immigration as our demographic slide is undermining a lot of the social underpinning of the country. That said why/how better planning wasn't done is hard to understand. No matter how you figure it adding 1 million people was going to cost mega bucks for housing, utilities and social transition. The cities are taking the brunt of this but even in rural areas like mine we see new citizens or people who left the cities to get away from the associated addition of people.  

[aGENT]

6 hours ago, Elias Pettersson said:

 

Where's the link where it says increase in rents are directly tied to mortgage interest rates?  I'll wait...   

All I ever claimed was that they're a factor in rental pricing. Which they are, either directly (owners mortgage cost goes up, they increase rents to cover) or indirectly (owner forced to sell, house possibly bought to live in, reducing rental stock supply).

 

Regardless, the bigger issue would be the  30% increase in mortgage costs. Which again, speaks to my larger point that currently, higher interest rates are the single biggest driver of inflation.

Edited December 20, 2023 by aGENT

[aGENT]

5 hours ago, Elias Pettersson said:

LILLEY: Canada has added more than 1 million people and counting in 2023, it’s unsustainable (msn.com)

 

LILLEY: Canada has added more than 1 million people and counting in 2023, it’s unsustainable

 

The quarterly population estimate released by Statistics Canada should be sobering for Canada’s political class.

 

We are on track to add between 1.2 and 1.5 million new people by the end of this year. The real-time population clock , as I write this at noon on Tuesday, has our population at 40,720,342 with more than 1,400 new people having arrived in Canada since midnight.

 

But as we add this massive number of people, we aren’t keeping up with the required housing, infrastructure or health-care resources to match the population.

 

Just last week, the Canada Mortgage and Housing Corporation announced housing starts were down 22% across the country in November — but Montreal was down 30% while Toronto and Vancouver were down 39% each. Nothing like solving the housing crisis by bringing in far more people while building fewer homes for people to live in.

 

On the jobs front, StatsCan has been warning for months that population growth was rising faster than employment growth. In November, that was a factor in the unemployment rate increasing to 5.8% , a trend that started in April when unemployment stood at 5% .

 

To put this population growth in perspective, Canada’s population increased more in the third quarter of 2023 than any quarter since 1957. So far this year, we have taken in more people that in any year since Confederation in 1867.

 

And it is immigration that is driving the population increase with 96% of the growth, or about 990,000, coming from immigration. Back in 1957, we had high immigration levels but we were also in the middle of a baby boom — we definitely aren’t anymore.

 

Most of the growth in the last quarter wasn’t even permanent residents with just 107,972 people coming in that category. Instead, the bulk of the growth, some 73% of the total, came from 312,578 temporary workers and students arriving in that time frame.

 

This is not a sustainable system and needs to be fixed.

 

Consider that so far this year, our population has essentially added another Ottawa-Gatineau region to our country with none of the infrastructure that goes with that million-plus population. By the end of the year that increase in population will be equal to another Calgary but, again, with none of the infrastructure.

 

The Trudeau Liberals have allowed the immigration file to get out of hand, helping to fuel the housing crisis, while their policies, like the Impact Assessment Act, stop or delay needed projects from going ahead. At a time when we need to be building, the Trudeau Liberals have fought highways, housing projects, power plants and more.

 

You can’t add that many people without adding the infrastructure or cracks will begin to show in the system. We already have seen the impact of immigration on housing prices in key areas like Toronto and Vancouver but we are seeing an increased strain on our health system as well with people unable to access care.

 

The mismanagement of this file brought about something I never thought I’d see — the Liberals broke the trust Canadians had in our system. For years there was a general consensus supporting high immigration levels based on a well-managed and fair system.

 

As we’ve seen with recent polling, Canadians are questioning the system now.

 

Unless the government gets a handle on this file, expect the questioning to turn hostile and support to fade away.

 

 

Yup, the immigration isn't the problem it's the planning of what to do with that added population that is. 

 

The biggest being housing... Again, a 30 year old problem. We need public housing.

[Boudrias]

6 minutes ago, aGENT said:

All I ever claimed was that they're a factor in rental pricing. Which they are, either directly (owners mortgage cost goes up, they increase rents to cover) or indirectly (owner forced to sell, house possibly bought to live in, reducing rental stock supply).

 

Regardless, the bigger issue would be the  30% increase in mortgage costs. Which again, speaks to my larger point that currently, higher interest rates are the single biggest driver of inflation.

Aren't 'interest rates' a reflection or derivative of the economy? Governments use interest rates to stimulate or restrain spending, a monetary instrument. Recent increases in interest rates were an attempt to reduce spending and the demand for money to curb inflation. I suggest interest rates are a tool not the cause of inflation.  

[Bob Long]

2 hours ago, Boudrias said:

I don't disagree with the Trudeau plan for increased immigration as our demographic slide is undermining a lot of the social underpinning of the country. That said why/how better planning wasn't done is hard to understand. No matter how you figure it adding 1 million people was going to cost mega bucks for housing, utilities and social transition. The cities are taking the brunt of this but even in rural areas like mine we see new citizens or people who left the cities to get away from the associated addition of people.  

 

It's not all up to the feds, as PP would like us to believe. The provinces were well aware of the immigration numbers and also did nothing on housing, because it was a big cash cow no one wanted to mess with.

 

Its convenient to just blame Justin but it's also too reductive to be useful.

[aGENT]

14 minutes ago, Boudrias said:

Aren't 'interest rates' a reflection or derivative of the economy? Governments use interest rates to stimulate or restrain spending, a monetary instrument. Recent increases in interest rates were an attempt to reduce spending and the demand for money to curb inflation. I suggest interest rates are a tool not the cause of inflation.  

 

They're currently both. 

 

The higher interest rates are forcing an increase in spending, like the 30% increase in mortgage costs noted in the article. It's precisely why I've questioned from the beginning, following the same playbook as we always have in this situation. This isn't a "normal" economic situation. The higher interest rates are now the single largest cause for said inflation. It's a feedback loop.

Edited December 20, 2023 by aGENT

[Gurn]

To me, there are bigger problems going on than  we as a society are used to dealing with.

There are jobs open everywhere- one used to be able to say that meant we needed more people to fill those jobs; but I'm not so sure we are short of people.

Perhaps we are short of people that want to work-if so why?

Are wages not enticing enough?

 

       Side bar-    I retired a couple years back, and quickly noted that  since I no longer pay out money just to get to work, and back home, I need a lot less          income. Seriously I spend about $500 a month less on transportation costs, gas, repairs, replacement etc. My food costs went down as well, not buying lunches/dinners at work- and eating less as I'm not working my body as hard.

        The cost savings are very close to my income drop- so in my case, and likely many others- why work?

 

Boss is a jerk?

Are people just tired of playing in a rigged game?- Truly, the rich just seem to get richer, so why play in a game that just makes other people rich?

Are people noticing that many forms of economic activity are ruining the planet's environment?

Is there a shift from "going for the dollars" to "spending more time with those I love/like"?

So some people are going really really hard at getting the table scraps, while others are dropping out?

 

Mental health seems like an all time low, lots of anger and resignation out there.

Divisive politics, where neither side really seems to have a vision for the future, but more of a "those people are bad/stupid" while pointing at each other.

 

 

 

 

Just seems like there is a huge issue that no one can quite put their finger on, let alone try to deal with.

Edited December 20, 2023 by Gurn

[aGENT]

39 minutes ago, Gurn said:

Perhaps we are short of people that want to work-if so why?

Are wages not enticing enough?

 

I don't think there's a shortage of people that want to work. People aren't just sitting on their assess (contrary to some opinions). People just don't want to do boring, shit jobs, for shit pay, under shit bosses, with shit commutes. And there's enough better (or more flexible) jobs out there right now, for most people to not work those.

 

That and yes, I think people have prioritized life over slaving for a company (for scraps as your put it). I did. I make less money after moving to the island but my cost of living is also less, I don't have to manage anyone, I work reasonable hours (a great deal from home) and generally have FAR less stress, better quality of life and get to spend more time with the people and things I enjoy.

 

[the destroyer of worlds]

Waaaaa

 

Our problems coz immigrants. 

 

Guess what.   If you hate that we need immigrants, then have more kids.  Birth rates have plummeted.  You want a solid economy.  You want your double double Pronto.  Then we need people.   Either home grown or imported.   People here have decided they don't really want 3 or more ankle biters.  So I guess it's imported then.

 

And as many have pointed out, this problem didn't materialize over night.  It took decades.

[Elias Pettersson]

3 hours ago, Boudrias said:

Aren't 'interest rates' a reflection or derivative of the economy? Governments use interest rates to stimulate or restrain spending, a monetary instrument. Recent increases in interest rates were an attempt to reduce spending and the demand for money to curb inflation. I suggest interest rates are a tool not the cause of inflation.  

This is 100% correct. And I already explained this in another post. Higher interest rates are not a “cause” of inflation itself. They are an “effect” of government policy, usually monetary policy but could also be fiscal policy in some cases. 
 

The government only uses the monetary policy of raising interest rates when they have no other recourse to curb inflation. Inflation itself is caused by the printing of money, which is another monetary policy used by the government to stimulate the economy. 
 

So, in a nutshell, the government prints money to stimulate the economy in a time of economic slowdown, and then when the economy grows too quickly, they raise interest rates to slow it down. Rinse and repeat. 

Edited December 20, 2023 by Elias Pettersson

[Boudrias]

3 hours ago, Bob Long said:

 

It's not all up to the feds, as PP would like us to believe. The provinces were well aware of the immigration numbers and also did nothing on housing, because it was a big cash cow no one wanted to mess with.

 

Its convenient to just blame Justin but it's also too reductive to be useful.

Amazing how it all gravitates back to PP? I believe it is the federal government that determines the level of immigration. How about a meeting of the provinces with the feds for a frank discussion on how the number of people will be handled? 

 

Nothing to see here so move along folks.  

[the destroyer of worlds]

6 minutes ago, Boudrias said:

Amazing how it all gravitates back to PP? I believe it is the federal government that determines the level of immigration. How about a meeting of the provinces with the feds for a frank discussion on how the number of people will be handled? 

 

Nothing to see here so move along folks.  

IT is very easy to find City Hall meetings full of NIMBYs whenever the subject is public/low income housing developments.  Decades of it.

[Elias Pettersson]

3 hours ago, Bob Long said:

 

It's not all up to the feds, as PP would like us to believe. The provinces were well aware of the immigration numbers and also did nothing on housing, because it was a big cash cow no one wanted to mess with.

 

Its convenient to just blame Justin but it's also too reductive to be useful.

Wouldn’t it have been a smart idea to get Justin and all the Premiers in one room at the same time in order to figure this out?  Do you know how long it takes to increase the supply of housing as well as all of the infrastructure to go along with it?  How long does it take to build new hospitals for the increase in population?  New doctors and nurses. 
 

If you are wanting to increase the population by one million people per year you better well have a damn good plan in place from all of the  governments working together to make sure these extra one million people can actually live and thrive in this country. 

[nuckin_futz]

Further to the discussion on immigration .........

 

The latest Canadian population numbers are insane

• Canada added as many immigrants as the USA last year and the number is accelerating

Here are net migration numbers for the developed English-speaking countries from June 2022-June 2023:

• USA +1,138,989 (+3.4)
• Canada +1,131,181 (+28.6)
• UK +672,000 (+10.0)
• Australia +518,087 (+19.7)
• NZ +101,518 (+19.6)

These numbers are high everywhere but in Canada the rate is insane. Remember that Canada has roughly one-tenth the population of the USA and it's adding immigrants at the same pace. The numbers are also unsustainable in the Australian and New Zealand and have created something of a political crisis in the UK.

 

It's useful to break down the number of immigrants by 1000 people who already live in the country:

• USA +3.4
• Canada +28.6
• UK +10.0
• Australia +19.7
• NZ +19.6

What's even crazier is that Canadian immigration is accelerating. In the third quarter of this year alone, the population expanded by 430,000 -- more than 1%.

 

This is in a country which is blessed with the second-largest land mass but where it's utterly impossible to get anything built in a reasonable time frame. To match this level of growth, Canada would need to build 680,000 homes per year. The current pace is 212,000.

 

By increasing the population by 4% per year, Canada is growing GDP with population alone but per-capita GDP is shrinking and has been stagnant since 2016.

 

These numbers have turned Canadians against immigration and deeply against Prime Minister Trudeau.

 

Even the Canadian banks have had enough. Here are the economists at Scotia:

Immigration is excessive full stop. Canada just added about 431k people in Q3 alone (here). That’s like presto, here’s a new city of London, Ontario created in one quarter. Or almost a new City of Hamilton. A 1.1% q/q nonannualized increase in population in one quarter. Statcan noted that even just the first 9 months of this year exceeded population growth for any other year since Confederation in 1867. In percentage terms, q/q population growth of 1.1% was the fastest since 1957. Population growth is now at 3.2% y/y and the fastest of any peer group major industrialized nation by far. Population has increased by 1.25 million people in just one year and population is 2.29 million higher than two years ago in a country that started with just 38.2 million folks at the time and now has 40.5.

The problem remains that there is little to no housing available for them and it’s only going to get worse.

 

**********************

 

Destroyer nailed it above. This is purely a problem of economics. Western economies are predicated on the population increasing. They don't work and probably collapse if it decreases significantly. You need an ever increasing tax base to pay out all the benefits.

 

This problem has been a long time coming and then went into overdrive after the Great Financial Crisis of 2009. Central banks of all western nations flooded the financial system with cash/debt in a massive effort to lift equity and real estate prices. In other words if you held real estate or stocks YOU got a massive bailout. The segment of the population who got nothing out of that were the younger generation who had no stocks or real estate but instead got student loan debt.

 

Fast forward 10 years and the generation who should be birthing babies cannot afford to do so. Which puts the birth rate where it currently is. If you expect your old age benefits to be paid, your taxes not to be raised and you're not having enough children then YOU are the reason this is happening.

If the existing population was reproducing at an appropriate rate then we're not getting flooded with immigrants.

 

To quote Bill Clinton "It's the economy Stupid".

 

The immigrants are not the issue. The lack of housing is. They need to fix that ASAP.

Edited December 20, 2023 by nuckin_futz

[Rob Eh]

 

 

[King Heffy]

3 minutes ago, Rob Eh said:

 

 

Theo Fleury needs to stop talking about himself in the third person, in addition to misgendering himself.

Edited December 20, 2023 by King Heffy

[Ricky Ravioli]

43 minutes ago, nuckin_futz said:

Further to the discussion on immigration .........

 

The latest Canadian population numbers are insane

• Canada added as many immigrants as the USA last year and the number is accelerating

Here are net migration numbers for the developed English-speaking countries from June 2022-June 2023:

• USA +1,138,989 (+3.4)
• Canada +1,131,181 (+28.6)
• UK +672,000 (+10.0)
• Australia +518,087 (+19.7)
• NZ +101,518 (+19.6)

These numbers are high everywhere but in Canada the rate is insane. Remember that Canada has roughly one-tenth the population of the USA and it's adding immigrants at the same pace. The numbers are also unsustainable in the Australian and New Zealand and have created something of a political crisis in the UK.

 

It's useful to break down the number of immigrants by 1000 people who already live in the country:

• USA +3.4
• Canada +28.6
• UK +10.0
• Australia +19.7
• NZ +19.6

What's even crazier is that Canadian immigration is accelerating. In the third quarter of this year alone, the population expanded by 430,000 -- more than 1%.

 

This is in a country which is blessed with the second-largest land mass but where it's utterly impossible to get anything built in a reasonable time frame. To match this level of growth, Canada would need to build 680,000 homes per year. The current pace is 212,000.

 

By increasing the population by 4% per year, Canada is growing GDP with population alone but per-capita GDP is shrinking and has been stagnant since 2016.

 

These numbers have turned Canadians against immigration and deeply against Prime Minister Trudeau.

 

Even the Canadian banks have had enough. Here are the economists at Scotia:

Immigration is excessive full stop. Canada just added about 431k people in Q3 alone (here). That’s like presto, here’s a new city of London, Ontario created in one quarter. Or almost a new City of Hamilton. A 1.1% q/q nonannualized increase in population in one quarter. Statcan noted that even just the first 9 months of this year exceeded population growth for any other year since Confederation in 1867. In percentage terms, q/q population growth of 1.1% was the fastest since 1957. Population growth is now at 3.2% y/y and the fastest of any peer group major industrialized nation by far. Population has increased by 1.25 million people in just one year and population is 2.29 million higher than two years ago in a country that started with just 38.2 million folks at the time and now has 40.5.

The problem remains that there is little to no housing available for them and it’s only going to get worse.

 

**********************

 

Destroyer nailed it above. This is purely a problem of economics. Western economies are predicated on the population increasing. They don't work and probably collapse if it decreases significantly. You need an ever increasing tax base to pay out all the benefits.

 

This problem has been a long time coming and then went into overdrive after the Great Financial Crisis of 2009. Central banks of all western nations flooded the financial system with cash/debt in a massive effort to lift equity and real estate prices. In other words if you held real estate or stocks YOU got a massive bailout. The segment of the population who got nothing out of that were the younger generation who had no stocks or real estate but instead got student loan debt.

 

Fast forward 10 years and the generation who should be birthing babies cannot afford to do so. Which puts the birth rate where it currently is. If you expect your old age benefits to be paid, your taxes not to be raised and you're not having enough children then YOU are the reason this is happening.

If the existing population was reproducing at an appropriate rate then we're not getting flooded with immigrants.

 

To quote Bill Clinton "It's the economy Stupid".

 

The immigrants are not the issue. The lack of housing is. They need to fix that ASAP.

This is absolutely insane and clearly not sustainable. What is the end game here besides keeping wages down and making it even more impossible to get towards home ownership 

[Rob Eh]

 

[nuckin_futz]

6 minutes ago, Ricky Ravioli said:

This is absolutely insane and clearly not sustainable. What is the end game here besides keeping wages down and making it even more impossible to get towards home ownership 

 

I don't think the plan is to sustain it. I think the plan is to do it and complete it before the other western nations do. The end game is probably to keep members of society from revolting. Look at how well austerity measures were received 10+ years ago (hint, they weren't).